Dwlee99's Mini Normal Review, July 2021

[Something_Smart]

Mafia Mailman
Mafia Combined Rolecop Voyeur
Mafia Bulletproof Ascetic

Town Novice Traffic Analyst
Town One-shot Simple Cop Neighbor
Town 1-shot Activated Bulletproof
Town Compulsive JOAT (Neighborize, Complex Rolecop, Lazy Roleblock)
Town Simple Jailkeeper

5x VT

You missed a "neighbor".

Not sure it really fixes the underlying issue, but it is an improvement. Assuming JOAT uses neighborize first (I believe most people would), TA has 6 valid targets, and cop has 5-7 (depending on whether scum claim VT), and it's probably pretty hard for them to get a good read on whether a particular person is a good target.

[Dwlee99]

I think scum might have too much ability to interfere with night actions so how about

Mafia Mailman
Mafia Combined Rolecop Voyeur
Mafia Bulletproof Ascetic

Town Novice Traffic Analyst
Town One-shot Loyal Cop Neighbor
Town 1-shot Activated Bulletproof Neighbor
Town Compulsive JOAT (Neighborize, Complex Rolecop, Lazy Roleblock)
Town Simple Jailkeeper

5x VT

Maybe by making the cop loyal we could give it an incentive to clear a townie? I'm also thinking maybe the traffic analyst can be not novice, and that would help.

[Something_Smart]

Hmm maybe that's enough. Not sure.

[Something_Smart]

I think drop the novice. TA can only guilty one role and can't inno THAT many.

[Dwlee99]

Mafia Mailman
Mafia Combined Rolecop Voyeur
Mafia Bulletproof Ascetic

Town Traffic Analyst
Town One-shot Loyal Cop Neighbor
Town 1-shot Activated Bulletproof Neighbor
Town Compulsive JOAT (Neighborize, Complex Rolecop, Lazy Roleblock)
Town Simple Jailkeeper

5x VT

[Dwlee99]

Initially I had it be simple because I didn't want the cop to be able to effectively form a masonry. Is there a way we could change that? Maybe shift the cop out of the neighborhood and make a VT a neighbor?

[Something_Smart]

Oh that's a good point.

Maybe make the JK a neighbor so they know one person they shouldn't target?

[Dwlee99]

Hmm okay yea let's do that.

Mafia Mailman
Mafia Combined Rolecop Voyeur
Mafia Bulletproof Ascetic

Town Traffic Analyst
Town One-shot Loyal Cop
Town Simple Jailkeeper Neighbor
Town 1-shot Activated Bulletproof Neighbor
Town Compulsive JOAT (Neighborize, Complex Rolecop, Lazy Roleblock)

5x VT

[ChaosOmega]

I would probably make the one-shot BP a regular passive instead of activated to make it more consistently helpful to town.

Is the plan to still have public knowledge that all PR's are multitasking? If so, just wondering how that interacts with compulsive JOAT, if they are forced to do something while they still have shots left or if they have to do everything N1.

[Dwlee99]

I think implosion said I can make just the mafia default multitasking if I put it in my public game knowledge, so the JOAT shouldn't be a problem. I'm worried about making the BP passive because it would cause the mafia to need a fifth mislim to win, and I don't think they have enough compensation for that.

[Dwlee99]

In fact, I think I might want to change the bulletproof because we already have a jailkeeper.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah I'm not sure about passive BP. Right now it's basically a useless role; feel free to change it if you want.

[Dwlee99]

Mafia Mailman
Mafia Combined Rolecop Voyeur
Mafia Bulletproof Ascetic

Town Traffic Analyst
Town One-shot Loyal Cop
Town Simple Jailkeeper Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Town Compulsive JOAT (Neighborize, Complex Rolecop, Lazy Roleblock)

5x VT

[Something_Smart]

Seems pretty good to me. What do you think, Chaos?

[ChaosOmega]

I'm ok with it balance-wise. Still feels slightly scumsided but not to a point where I'd reject it.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, maybe on the balance, but I wouldn't want to buff town much more because TA has a pretty good best case. Maybe the rolecop could be nerfed to combined vanilla cop voyeur, or something. But I'll /pass as is. (I would pass a nerfed version too.)

[ChaosOmega]

I think we still need the new role PM's for the changed roles and list of possible results they can get.

[Dwlee99]

I think we still need the new role PM's for the changed roles and list of possible results they can get.

Yep, I will do that.

I think I'm okay with the current balance. I think scum have agency, but town has a lot of things going for it as well.

[Something_Smart]

I think we still need the new role PM's for the changed roles and list of possible results they can get.

Yeah we do, my bad, the pass was obviously for the setup only.

[Dwlee99]

Just realized: if I make the role a rolecop Voyeur, the voyeur will see itself investigating. If I make it a Voyeur Rolecop, it won't see itself performing the rolecop because the Voyeur action occured first, correct?

[Something_Smart]

The phrasing shouldn't matter for the same reason the rolestopper rolecop shouldn't work no matter how it's phrased. NAR determines the order the roles resolve in.

I think it would see the rolecop, but not sure. I need to double check.

[Dwlee99]

It still brings us back to the line that if two actions are together the first one resolves first, which is why neighborizer rolestopper works I think.

[Something_Smart]

Do not use this list unless actions are actually in conflict; that is, that both affect each other.

If only one of the actions affects another, resolve that one first, regardless of the positions on the list.

Combined roles are still two separate actions. That line you quoted is meant for e.g. when a jailkeeper and a roleblocker target each other.

[Something_Smart]

It doesn't even mean the first one written. It means the higher one on the list-- but the list is only used when two actions affect each other.

[Dwlee99]

The wiki page does say

For actions which combine two other actions use the first one listed.

This is what I was referring to. The wording is ambiguous on whether listed means "the first one in the role" or "the first one in the list" imo.