ssbm_kyouko's Mini Normal Review, September 2021

[implosion]

If you opt to design your own setup, you are expected to have it ready for review when you sign up to mod a game. This should include the number of players, the list of roles (including role PMs), and the opening post (including rules).

I have a few questions about this setup:
Does a Bulletproof-Finder "Find" that a player is "Bulletproof" if they were a 1-shot BP at the start of the game but they have since been shot and lost the 1-shot of protection that they had?
Does a Mailman's message get delivered if he/she dies?
Are the Mafia allowed to be multitasking by default if it is public info?
Am I allowed to use the 50% rule for no Elim in a normal game if it is announced, or do I have to stick to 50% +1?
If it is clear the flips have no relation to how a player died, can I use possum-related death flavor? ex: "Was carried off by a pack of wild possums", "Was ambushed by possums in an alley", "was mauled by possums"

A comment on balancing:
I wasn't sure if the Vigilante was too swingy, and tried to reduce that swing by making it Complex. Would it be a good idea to give the Goon some kind of PR (even if it is useless, like a Fruit Vendor) to make them targetable by the Vig? I thought including the Roleblocker in the JOAT could allow Mafia to stop the Vig kill if the Vig ever claims.

The Setup

13 players - 10 town, 3 Mafia

Town
2x Town 1-Shot Bulletproof Neighbors
1x Town Complex Vigilante
1x Town Informed Mailman
6x Vanilla Townies

Mafia
Informed 1-shot Bulletproof Traitor
Mafia Goon (considered making this a 1-shot strongman to make it killable by the Complex Vig, and make it able to kill any of the bulletproofs)
Announcing Informed Mafia JOAT (Abilities: Bulletproof-Finder, Roleblocker, Activated Informed, Strongman)

The mailman is informed "There exists at least one Bulletproof Traitor in the game. You do not know if the Bulletproof Traitor(s) have any other roles or modifiers"

The traitor is informed "You are not the only Bulletproof in the game. You know that <Mafia JOAT player name> is Informed of the following information:<Mafia JOAT Informed message>"

The JOAT is informed "Your Traitor is Bulletproof. You do not know if the Bulletproof Traitor has any other roles or modifiers."

The JOAT's activated Informed message: "You have learned that your Traitor was not the only Bulletproof in the game when it started"

Role PMs

Welcome to Mini XXXX: Play Possum Mafia!

You are a

Town 1-Shot Bulletproof Neighbor

.

• Once during the game, if you are targeted by a kill at night, that kill will be prevented.
• You share a neighborhood with <player>. You may post in the neighborhood during the Day and Night phases after the game starts. The neighborhood can be found
  here
  .

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Confirm by replying to this PM with your alignment and role.

Welcome to Mini XXXX: Play Possum Mafia!

You are a

Town Complex Vigilante

.

• Each Night, you may attempt to kill another player. This action will fail if you target a "Vanilla" player.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Confirm by replying to this PM with your alignment and role.

Welcome to Mini XXXX: Play Possum Mafia!

You are a

Town Informed Mailman

.

• Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, the moderator will anonymously send that player a message of your choice (specified when you submit this action).
• You are informed of the following:
  There exists at least one Bulletproof Traitor in the game. You do not know if the Bulletproof Traitor(s) have any other roles or modifiers.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Confirm by replying to this PM with your alignment and role.

Welcome to Mini XXXX: Play Possum Mafia!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

• You have no special abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Confirm by replying to this PM with your alignment and role.

Welcome to Mini XXXX: Play Possum Mafia!

You are a

Mafia Informed 1-Shot Bulletproof Traitor

.
The other members of the Mafia are

<player>

and

<player>

. They know a Traitor exists, but do not know your identity.

• Once during the game, if you are targeted by a kill at night, that kill will be prevented.
• You are informed of the following:
  You are not the only Bulletproof in the game.

  <Mafia JOAT player name>

  is Informed of the following information: "Your Traitor is Bulletproof. You do not know if the Bulletproof Traitor has any other roles or modifiers."

You win if all threats to the Mafia are eliminated and at least one of your partners is alive.
You lose if both of your partners die, even if you are still alive.
Confirm by replying to this PM with your alignment and role.

Welcome to Mini XXXX: Play Possum Mafia!

You are a

Mafia Announcing Informed JOAT

.
You share a Private Topic with the other member of the Mafia,

<player>

, which can be found

here

. Daytalk is enabled, and you may post here in pre-game if you wish. You have a

Traitor

.

• You share a factional kill with your partner that either of you may choose to use.
• Each Night, you may use one of your
  JOAT Abilities
  . You may only use each JOAT ability once in the game. If your ability targets a player, that player will receive a PM indicating they were targeted by [ability name]. This also applies to your factional kill.
• You are informed of the following:
  Your Traitor is Bulletproof. You do not know if the Bulletproof Traitor has any other roles or modifiers.

JOAT Abilities

• Activated Informed: You will be informed of additional information at Day start.
• Bulletproof-Finder: Target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn if that player is "Bulletproof" or "Not Bulletproof".
• Roleblocker: Target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, any Night action(s) that player takes this Night will be prevented.
• Strongman: On the night you use this ability, if you perform the factional kill, it will ignore any abilities, except a Commute, that would prevent your kill.

You win if all threats to the Mafia are eliminated, or nothing can prevent this from happening, and at least one of your non-Traitor partners is alive.
You lose if you and your partner die, even if your Traitor is still alive.
Confirm in your Mafia PT or by replying to this PM with your alignment and role.

The JOAT's activated Informed message: "You have learned that your Traitor was not the only Bulletproof in the game when it started"

Welcome to Mini XXXX: Play Possum Mafia!

You are a

Mafia Goon

.
You share a Private Topic with the other member of the Mafia,

<player>

, which can be found

here

. Daytalk is enabled, and you may post here in pre-game if you wish. You have a

Traitor

.

• You share a factional kill with your partner that either of you may choose to use.

You win if all threats to the Mafia are eliminated, or nothing can prevent this from happening, and at least one of your non-Traitor partners is alive.
You lose if you and your partner die, even if your Traitor is still alive.
Confirm in your Mafia PT or by replying to this PM with your alignment and role.

Rules

(My rules are incomplete and unformatted but I wanted to get the setup in for review while I work on them)

General:

This is my color and don't use it or a similar color to impersonate me.
All site-specific rules apply.
Treat others with respect.
Do not make attacks against any protected status (gender identity, ethnicity, sexual orientation, disability, etc.).
If you have to ask if something is against the rules, it probably is. PM me with any questions.
No provable randomness.
Do not use small, invisible, or otherwise obscured text.
No cryptography. Crumbing is okay.
Do not quote any private communication from the moderator or a private topic. Paraphrasing is okay, unless I have specified otherwise in the PM you are paraphrasing.

Game Options:

Daytalk is enabled for all PTs.
The Mafia are Multitasking by default.

Day/Night phases

Day phases will last 7 days and will generally start between 7:00AM and 8:00AM Central to accommodate my work/life schedule. The deadline for Days and Nights will always be clearly posted in the Votecounts and "Night has started" posts.
Night phases will last least 48-72 hours, and will end at a time that is convenient for me to start the day

Voting/Elimination

Players may vote for each other using vote tags or bolded vote playername. If it is not clear who you are voting for, the vote will not be counted, and your vote will remain where it was prior to your post.
You may unvote using unvote tags or bold: unvote. Player names are optional when unvoting.
If a player reaches a simple majority of votes, they will be eliminated.
Players may also vote for No Elimination to end the day without an elimination.
If No elimination reaches 50% of the votes, the day will end with No Elimination.

This means in 4-Player MELO, it only takes 2 votes to end the day in No Elimination.

Hey, I was wondering if you got the setup I sent when I /inned to mod a mini normal. I've updated the game rules, which were incomplete when I sent the setup in for review.

Rules

General:

• All site rules apply.
  
• No provable randomness.
  
• No small, invisible, or otherwise obscured text.
  
• If you can edit posts, don't.
  
• Do not quote any private communication from the moderator or a private topic. Paraphrasing is okay, unless I have specified otherwise within the private communication.

Prods/Replacements:

• You must make a game-advancing post once every 48 hours or you will be prodded. When on V/LA, this timer is extended to 72 hours.
  
• A game-advancing post contains content related to the game. Informing me you are V/LA, or naked "prodge" posts will not reset the prod timer.
  
• If you go longer than this without making a post, but you make a post before I notice, you will still receive a prod for the purposes of counting prods until replacement.
  
• Players who have been prodded 2 times will be force replaced. If they make a post before a replacement is found, they may continue playing until a 3rd prod, at which point they will again be force replaced and will not be allowed to continue the game.

Day/Night Phases:

• Day phases will last 7 days and will generally start between 7:00AM and 8:00AM Central to accommodate my work/life schedule. The deadline for Days and Nights will always be clearly posted in the Votecounts and "Night has started" posts.
  
• Night phases will last 48-72 hours, and will end at a time that is convenient for me to start the next Day.
  
• The deadline for Night actions will be 30 minutes before Day start. Actions received after this deadline will not be considered.

Voting/Elimination:

• Players may vote for each other using vote tags VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko or bold
  VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko
  .
  
• If it is not clear who you are voting for, or your vote is inside of a spoiler tag, your vote will be considered invalid and will not be counted.
  
• If you vote more than once in the same post, the valid vote closest to the bottom of your post will be counted.
  
• You may unvote using unvote tags UNVOTE: or bold
  UNVOTE
  . Player names are optional when unvoting.
  
• If a player reaches a simple majority of votes, they will be eliminated.
  
• Players may also vote for No Elimination to end the day without an elimination.
  
• If No elimination reaches 50% of the votes, the day will end with No Elimination.
  This means in 4-Player MELO, it only takes 2 votes to end the day in No Elimination.

Code: Select all

[v]ssbm_Kyouko[/v]
[b]VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko[/b]
[uv][/uv]
[b]UNVOTE[/b]

Other/Setup:

• Bolded
  Gold (#FFD700)
  is my color. Don't use it or a similar color to impersonate me.
  
• Daytalk is enabled for all PTs.
  
• The Mafia are Multitasking by default.
  
• If No Elimination/No Kill occurs for 2 Day phases and 2 Night phases in a row, the game will end in a draw.

[implosion]

Primary: Isis
Secondary: ChaosOmega

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ego

[Isis]

I don't see any issues distinct from the browser hesitance designers have about BP and traitor in general so I think I'm likely to pass it.

I'll sleep and look again

[ChaosOmega]

Does a Bulletproof-Finder "Find" that a player is "Bulletproof" if they were a 1-shot BP at the start of the game but they have since been shot and lost the 1-shot of protection that they had?
Does a Mailman's message get delivered if he/she dies?
Are the Mafia allowed to be multitasking by default if it is public info?
Am I allowed to use the 50% rule for no Elim in a normal game if it is announced, or do I have to stick to 50% +1?
If it is clear the flips have no relation to how a player died, can I use possum-related death flavor? ex: "Was carried off by a pack of wild possums", "Was ambushed by possums in an alley", "was mauled by possums"

- Yes, the Wiki is not explicit about it, but it says modifiers are not considered when finding a role, so I would say it would get a positive on a 1-shot BP that has been used.
- Yes, Mailman is a miscellaneous action in NAR, which comes before killing.
- Yes.
- As long as it's specified in the rules (which I see you have), that is fine.
- I believe that is fine, yes.

-----

I don't see anything wrong with the setup balance-wise. Making the goon a PR to be targetable by the vig is a decent help to the town, I'm ok with it, but would probably want the role to be something that gives scum a bit of utility to compensate. Scum is already disadvantaged in this setup with 2 groupscum and a traitor. Can you post what the PM results would be for people targeted by the announcing JOAT and the mailman?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Announcing JOAT targets would receive the following:

"You were targeted by a [variable] action in the night."

Where [variable] is either "Bulletproof-Finder", "Roleblocker", or "Factional Kill". Strongman doesnt apply because there is no way to avoid dying when targeted by a strongman in this setup

For mailman, I hadn't thought of it. Maybe like this:

Mod-provided Information

You receive the following message in the night. This message comes from another player, and I cannot confirm or deny the veracity of any of its contents. The contents of the "Message Area" below may be quoted in the game thread and any private topic(s) related to the game you have access to. Do not quote the "Mod-provided Information" section of this PM. If you are unsure of what you are allowed to quote, message me privately.

Message Area

sample message body

[Isis]

I'd prefer no changes perhaps more so than Chaos Omega does. It'd be difficult for a scum PR to grant much utility against the town roles.

[ChaosOmega]

Agreed. I was thinking something like a traffic analyst that gets a guilty on all PRs except the vig, but it probably makes the most sense to leave as a goon.

[implosion]

For unambiguity: this is passed, yes?

[Isis]

No I procrastinated rules/role PMs review. Strongman needs to be corrected, Strongman only bypasses protective effects on the target, not roleblock, aliens, jails, etc, that targetted the strongman.

I would like to see some kind of formal prod/replace policy in a normal game.

Those two are all I noticed

[Isis]

ok wow i made the wiki link to check if i am a liar right after posting and i am a liar

the part where i use listmod powers to edit and erase my shame has failed because this is a PT

i still would like to see a formal prod/replace policy

[ssbm_Kyouko]

i still would like to see a formal prod/replace policy

I sent my rules in a separate PM to implosion, he quoted it below the first quote in the first post. It has a policy, but is there part of it that needs to be more specific?

Like how long a replacement has to confirm/post before I go to the next replacement in the queue, if applicable?

[Isis]

I can't read

Setup is passed

[ChaosOmega]

/pass