Mini Normal 2248 | A Member Of The Arsonists | Town wins

[lendunistus]

Mini Normal 2248 Official Vote Count - 4.3

Not_Mafia

(2): DArby, LicketyQuickety

[E -1]

Not Voting

(3): Egix96, Save The Dragons, Not_Mafia

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-12-01 16:00:00)

[DArby]

Also Egix, LQ and I cannot be the scum team together for multiple reasons.

If we’re not the scum team together, then that means that 1 other scum is outside the {LQ, D’Arby} block. This means either a) one of us is scum with NM or StD or b) NM is scum with StD. You are not scum.

If one of us is scum with StD, then we would have waited longer for StD to hammer. There’s no reason to have a wagon atp with majority town. If one of us was scum with NM, then we would have no reason to push there as this is probably ELo.

It makes more sense that NM and StD are the scum team, I think.

[Not_Mafia]

Plus night specific is different to X-shot

LOL. This is a really terrible argument.

VOTE: NM

No they are completely different, night specific is very simple and has a clear use in the balance of the set-up, the role works on those night and the back-up is there in case the role gets eliminated d1.

Back-up X-shot could be implemented multiple ways and has no standardisation anywhere that we can see. Plus if we go off the wiki definition, DArby would have his own 2 shots, essentially giving us a 4-shot detective, split across two player slots in an 11p. This is not balanced and would not be approved by the NRG for multiple reasons

I can't believe you are doubling down on this.

In the case a 2-Shot goes down N1 it's literally the same exact thing as a night-specific. The game in question is a N1/N2 and I was a backup WITH NO QUALIFICATIONS of N1/N2. It would actually be BETTER if the role died there because then I would have gotten to use the ability every night.

You're right that there's no standardization of X-shot backup, but it's the exact same for night specific.

And irt getting 4 shots, that's actually not true because, for example, we don't know if T3 actually used any of their shots or who they were on. So you can't say it's 4 full shots because this game demonstrates that we don't actually know anything about T3's invests. And Darby clearly said in the same post they claimed that they were 2-Shot. That's exactly what I would expect in this setup if DArby's claim is legit.

But I'll

UNVOTE:

for now and give you a chance to give your own setup spec for this game. Like what do you think is realistic for PRs for this game? What are you thinking with Traitor? Or do you think it's just 2 Group Scum? Like, 2 TPRs with a backup seems very reasonable in a 2 Group Scum with a Traitor. So what setup are you seeing here?

The point is the N1/N2 Neighbouriser serves a very clear and specific purpose; to make a neighbourhood early in the game, the back-up is insurance. Neighbourhoods are of very little utility. This is not comparable to what we have here, we (allegedly) have a detective split across two player slots, with either two scum or two scum + traitor, this is STRONGER than a full detective in this set-up as even if scum manage to kill the detective early, they now have the back-up to deal with and with just two scum capable of killing plus no false positives. This is an apples and oranges comparison

At the minute I think there's just two group scum, there just being two scum explains a lot; the inability to get an elimination or clear consensus here and that I only really have an active scumread on DArby. Plus it's a good play for DArby here to claim Detective, claim a dubious role but skate by on being a PR and come in to tomorrow with a BS guilty, giving him the ability to control the 1v1.

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: DArby

[LicketyQuickety]

Plus night specific is different to X-shot

LOL. This is a really terrible argument.

VOTE: NM

No they are completely different, night specific is very simple and has a clear use in the balance of the set-up, the role works on those night and the back-up is there in case the role gets eliminated d1.

Back-up X-shot could be implemented multiple ways and has no standardisation anywhere that we can see. Plus if we go off the wiki definition, DArby would have his own 2 shots, essentially giving us a 4-shot detective, split across two player slots in an 11p. This is not balanced and would not be approved by the NRG for multiple reasons

I can't believe you are doubling down on this.

In the case a 2-Shot goes down N1 it's literally the same exact thing as a night-specific. The game in question is a N1/N2 and I was a backup WITH NO QUALIFICATIONS of N1/N2. It would actually be BETTER if the role died there because then I would have gotten to use the ability every night.

You're right that there's no standardization of X-shot backup, but it's the exact same for night specific.

And irt getting 4 shots, that's actually not true because, for example, we don't know if T3 actually used any of their shots or who they were on. So you can't say it's 4 full shots because this game demonstrates that we don't actually know anything about T3's invests. And Darby clearly said in the same post they claimed that they were 2-Shot. That's exactly what I would expect in this setup if DArby's claim is legit.

But I'll

UNVOTE:

for now and give you a chance to give your own setup spec for this game. Like what do you think is realistic for PRs for this game? What are you thinking with Traitor? Or do you think it's just 2 Group Scum? Like, 2 TPRs with a backup seems very reasonable in a 2 Group Scum with a Traitor. So what setup are you seeing here?

The point is the N1/N2 Neighbouriser serves a very clear and specific purpose; to make a neighbourhood early in the game, the back-up is insurance. Neighbourhoods are of very little utility. This is not comparable to what we have here, we (allegedly) have a detective split across two player slots, with either two scum or two scum + traitor, this is STRONGER than a full detective in this set-up as even if scum manage to kill the detective early, they now have the back-up to deal with and with just two scum capable of killing plus no false positives. This is an apples and oranges comparison

At the minute I think there's just two group scum, there just being two scum explains a lot; the inability to get an elimination or clear consensus here and that I only really have an active scumread on DArby. Plus it's a good play for DArby here to claim Detective, claim a dubious role but skate by on being a PR and come in to tomorrow with a BS guilty, giving him the ability to control the 1v1.

That means Scum have 2 PRs. Else, You are assuming Town have a low utility role and a less powerful cop that isn't guaranteed to actually get even and Inno at this point. The detective role kinda sucks. It can only get guilties and that's only if they are right about who performed the NK. But why Detective here? Why not Follower, Tracker, Watcher, heck even motion detector could arguably be better than Detective here. Why Detective here? Why 2-Shot?

Don't you think it is suicide for DArby to claim here as the last Group Scum?

[Not_Mafia]

Plus night specific is different to X-shot

LOL. This is a really terrible argument.

VOTE: NM

No they are completely different, night specific is very simple and has a clear use in the balance of the set-up, the role works on those night and the back-up is there in case the role gets eliminated d1.

Back-up X-shot could be implemented multiple ways and has no standardisation anywhere that we can see. Plus if we go off the wiki definition, DArby would have his own 2 shots, essentially giving us a 4-shot detective, split across two player slots in an 11p. This is not balanced and would not be approved by the NRG for multiple reasons

I can't believe you are doubling down on this.

In the case a 2-Shot goes down N1 it's literally the same exact thing as a night-specific. The game in question is a N1/N2 and I was a backup WITH NO QUALIFICATIONS of N1/N2. It would actually be BETTER if the role died there because then I would have gotten to use the ability every night.

You're right that there's no standardization of X-shot backup, but it's the exact same for night specific.

And irt getting 4 shots, that's actually not true because, for example, we don't know if T3 actually used any of their shots or who they were on. So you can't say it's 4 full shots because this game demonstrates that we don't actually know anything about T3's invests. And Darby clearly said in the same post they claimed that they were 2-Shot. That's exactly what I would expect in this setup if DArby's claim is legit.

But I'll

UNVOTE:

for now and give you a chance to give your own setup spec for this game. Like what do you think is realistic for PRs for this game? What are you thinking with Traitor? Or do you think it's just 2 Group Scum? Like, 2 TPRs with a backup seems very reasonable in a 2 Group Scum with a Traitor. So what setup are you seeing here?

The point is the N1/N2 Neighbouriser serves a very clear and specific purpose; to make a neighbourhood early in the game, the back-up is insurance. Neighbourhoods are of very little utility. This is not comparable to what we have here, we (allegedly) have a detective split across two player slots, with either two scum or two scum + traitor, this is STRONGER than a full detective in this set-up as even if scum manage to kill the detective early, they now have the back-up to deal with and with just two scum capable of killing plus no false positives. This is an apples and oranges comparison

At the minute I think there's just two group scum, there just being two scum explains a lot; the inability to get an elimination or clear consensus here and that I only really have an active scumread on DArby. Plus it's a good play for DArby here to claim Detective, claim a dubious role but skate by on being a PR and come in to tomorrow with a BS guilty, giving him the ability to control the 1v1.

That means Scum have 2 PRs. Else, You are assuming Town have a low utility role and a less powerful cop that isn't guaranteed to actually get even and Inno at this point. The detective role kinda sucks. It can only get guilties and that's only if they are right about who performed the NK. But why Detective here? Why not Follower, Tracker, Watcher, heck even motion detector could arguably be better than Detective here. Why Detective here? Why 2-Shot?

Don't you think it is suicide for DArby to claim here as the last Group Scum?

You know that Detective gives guilties on anyone that has NK'd at any point in the game, not just that night, it's not like a tracker. It's very powerful in what appears to be a 2 scum set-up. And no I do not think it is suicide, why do you think it is?

[DArby]

Plus night specific is different to X-shot

LOL. This is a really terrible argument.

VOTE: NM

No they are completely different, night specific is very simple and has a clear use in the balance of the set-up, the role works on those night and the back-up is there in case the role gets eliminated d1.

Back-up X-shot could be implemented multiple ways and has no standardisation anywhere that we can see. Plus if we go off the wiki definition, DArby would have his own 2 shots, essentially giving us a 4-shot detective, split across two player slots in an 11p. This is not balanced and would not be approved by the NRG for multiple reasons

I can't believe you are doubling down on this.

In the case a 2-Shot goes down N1 it's literally the same exact thing as a night-specific. The game in question is a N1/N2 and I was a backup WITH NO QUALIFICATIONS of N1/N2. It would actually be BETTER if the role died there because then I would have gotten to use the ability every night.

You're right that there's no standardization of X-shot backup, but it's the exact same for night specific.

And irt getting 4 shots, that's actually not true because, for example, we don't know if T3 actually used any of their shots or who they were on. So you can't say it's 4 full shots because this game demonstrates that we don't actually know anything about T3's invests. And Darby clearly said in the same post they claimed that they were 2-Shot. That's exactly what I would expect in this setup if DArby's claim is legit.

But I'll

UNVOTE:

for now and give you a chance to give your own setup spec for this game. Like what do you think is realistic for PRs for this game? What are you thinking with Traitor? Or do you think it's just 2 Group Scum? Like, 2 TPRs with a backup seems very reasonable in a 2 Group Scum with a Traitor. So what setup are you seeing here?

The point is the N1/N2 Neighbouriser serves a very clear and specific purpose; to make a neighbourhood early in the game, the back-up is insurance. Neighbourhoods are of very little utility. This is not comparable to what we have here, we (allegedly) have a detective split across two player slots, with either two scum or two scum + traitor, this is STRONGER than a full detective in this set-up as even if scum manage to kill the detective early, they now have the back-up to deal with and with just two scum capable of killing plus no false positives. This is an apples and oranges comparison

At the minute I think there's just two group scum, there just being two scum explains a lot; the inability to get an elimination or clear consensus here and that I only really have an active scumread on DArby. Plus it's a good play for DArby here to claim Detective, claim a dubious role but skate by on being a PR and come in to tomorrow with a BS guilty, giving him the ability to control the 1v1.

I am genuinely touched you think I could pull something that complex off.

[Not_Mafia]

It's really not that complex

[DArby]

It’s more complex then what I could do. Thanks for the idea in my next scum game, tho.

[Not_Mafia]

"next"

[DArby]

Yes, as I’ve had one previously so saying first is inaccurate. That’s how time works.

[LicketyQuickety]

Let the ring bearer (StD) decide [unless Egix does first].

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE:

[DArby]

Why?

[LicketyQuickety]

Why?

Want to see what StD does I guess? IDK this game is too hard for me.

[DArby]

If you believe Egix is town, and you think I am town, and you know you are town then second guessing yourself isn’t doing you any favors.

[Save The Dragons]

Will catch up tomorrow

[DArby]

Will catch up tomorrow

The return of the king

[Save The Dragons]

i still feel no closer to solving this than i did at start of day

i gotta remind myself that this is just one mafia game, it's not the end of the world if i get it wrong

but i'd still like to get it right.

[Save The Dragons]

there's a tinfoil that it's just darby and lq toying with everyone

but i think ultimately darby doesn't claim backup as scum

i think my heart says egix, and if egix didn't hammer NM, the reason is that NM is scum with egix in some form. the alternative, egix is town, also suggests it could be not mafia, since at this point i don't think it's darby, which would mean scum is in {NM, LQ}.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[DArby]

That is such an ingenious play and I applaud you for it.

[Save The Dragons]

im not scum with NM

[DArby]

If you think I’m town, what do you have for LQ and NM?

[Save The Dragons]

i think it's either just NM or NM and egix

[DArby]

I don’t think it can be just NM. I don’t understand balancing well but with 4 TPRs I think that means more than 2 scum?

Also I don’t think both Egix and NM could both be lurker scum.