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[AliceK]

Hello everyone
I hope you have a nice weekend so far

[AliceK]

Can we flash wagon Not Mafia?

That's tempting, but I think we can also wait for him to be replaced out.

[AliceK]

Can we flash wagon Not Mafia?

That's tempting, but I think we can also wait for him to be replaced out.

[AliceK]

Hardclaim Town Vigilante

Well, if you are really Vigilante that is good as you are really unreadable. Maybe you could focus on improving your play?

[AliceK]

Okay let's no lim

VOTE: No Lim

After all, we are more likey to kill scum than town here

Is this a joke?

I think he was sarcastic.

[AliceK]

Hardclaim Town Vigilante

Well, if you are really Vigilante that is good as you are really unreadable. Maybe you could focus on improving your play?

Maybe you could focus on your ability to read me

I really try, but a lot of people have the same problem so I think issue is not on my side.

[AliceK]

I think UglyDuck is Town, he is pushing a controversial opinion (not shooting, not liming as well?) which he should know could open him for attacks. I don't think as scum he would draw attention to himself like that.

[AliceK]

*click clack click clack*
*knock knock*

It's Aaron. Yes hello sir. I will begin presenting promptly. Have a great day.

*door shuts*

I am quite occupied as of today but will be here starting tomorrow. Thank you for your patience.

Good morning.

[AliceK]

Based on fact that Jackson is active and didn't get prodded or replaced out he is very likely Town.

[AliceK]

Based on fact that Jackson is active and didn't get prodded or replaced out he is very likely Town.

Activity doesn’t necessarily equate to towniness.

He just doesn't have games where he was active as scum. Maybe he doesn't like playing scum and replace out when he roll it.

[AliceK]

1.) I want to play with Kyo
2.) Kyo not playing
3.) Try to get Kyo to play

Hmm, why you think voting someone who didn't post, make them play the game? Kyo is not prodging or something, she didn't post.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Ego, missed daystart

[AliceK]

I am not against policy liming problematic slots day 1, but only if there is no other viable options.

VOTE: Three
He is pushing lowposters, not giving much other reads especially townreads. Also conversation about mechanics is a cheap way to get towncred, sone scums do that.

Yeah his last post is ate... yeah I think it is good choice he flips scum

[AliceK]

I am not against policy liming problematic slots day 1, but only if there is no other viable options.

VOTE: Three
He is pushing lowposters, not giving much other reads especially townreads. Also conversation about mechanics is a cheap way to get towncred, sone scums do that.

Yeah his last post is ate... yeah I think it is good choice he flips scum

* good chance, autocorrect :/

[AliceK]

I am not against policy liming problematic slots day 1, but only if there is no other viable options.

VOTE: Three
He is pushing lowposters, not giving much other reads especially townreads. Also conversation about mechanics is a cheap way to get towncred, sone scums do that.

Yeah his last post is ate... yeah I think it is good choice he flips scum

It's like I can see the future lmaooooo

Unironically though this is probably scum. They aren't engaging with me in any way yet think I'm likely to flip scum because I haven't given many reads in a game where barely anyone is playing, let alone giving more than one or two reads.

Also, uh, AtE? Do you know what AtE is...? Or how it's used? Because that isn't it.

VOTE: Alice

Vote to stop the lol hammer and because scum made the dumbest post possible. What you did isn't pressure Alice, it's a proclamation of having zero thought processes behind your vote.

I am making observation and you are in my opinion the most scummy person on the game. Game has 8 pages, people are definitely playing. I don't need to engage you to have a read on you. I know some people are questioning a person before giving a read, but that is not my style.

OK, it is different fallacy than ate my bad.

You try to scare me? It won't work.

[AliceK]

I think UglyDuck is Town, he is pushing a controversial opinion (not shooting, not liming as well?) which he should know could open him for attacks. I don't think as scum he would draw attention to himself like that.

Based on fact that Jackson is active and didn't get prodded or replaced out he is very likely Town.

Alice: "Three is scum because he isn't giving out many reads"

Also Alice: has exactly two reads, one of which is based solely on the fact a player posted in the thread

Yeah that wasn't a real read on me Alice.

Three reads. You forgot about yourself. Three is more than zero.

It is very real. I have a nose for early reads and your aggressive response is beyond my expectations. You probably though you can scare off a new player. Bad news. I am not going anywhere.

[AliceK]

I am not against policy liming problematic slots day 1, but only if there is no other viable options.

VOTE: Three
He is pushing lowposters, not giving much other reads especially townreads. Also conversation about mechanics is a cheap way to get towncred, sone scums do that.

Yeah his last post is ate... yeah I think it is good choice he flips scum

It's like I can see the future lmaooooo

Unironically though this is probably scum. They aren't engaging with me in any way yet think I'm likely to flip scum because I haven't given many reads in a game where barely anyone is playing, let alone giving more than one or two reads.

Also, uh, AtE? Do you know what AtE is...? Or how it's used? Because that isn't it.

VOTE: Alice

Vote to stop the lol hammer and because scum made the dumbest post possible. What you did isn't pressure Alice, it's a proclamation of having zero thought processes behind your vote.

I am making observation and you are in my opinion the most scummy person on the game. Game has 8 pages, people are definitely playing. I don't need to engage you to have a read on you. I know some people are questioning a person before giving a read, but that is not my style.

OK, it is different fallacy than ate my bad.

You try to scare me? It won't work.

Scare you? How? Do you have a reason to be scared?

What's the fallacy?

What makes me the scummiest person in the game?

By saying that I made a dumbest post possible which has zero thought process behind it your intention was to lower my confidence in the read and scare me off.

Fallacy is that if you flip green, Almost will be accused for TMI. Slippery slope fallacy.

I already wrote that in explanation behind my vote.

[AliceK]

I think UglyDuck is Town, he is pushing a controversial opinion (not shooting, not liming as well?) which he should know could open him for attacks. I don't think as scum he would draw attention to himself like that.

Based on fact that Jackson is active and didn't get prodded or replaced out he is very likely Town.

Alice: "Three is scum because he isn't giving out many reads"

Also Alice: has exactly two reads, one of which is based solely on the fact a player posted in the thread

Yeah that wasn't a real read on me Alice.

Three reads. You forgot about yourself. Three is more than zero.

It is very real. I have a nose for early reads and your aggressive response is beyond my expectations. You probably though you can scare off a new player. Bad news. I am not going anywhere.

Cringe.

Also two reads vs three reads isn't the massive difference you think it is. Just admit you're being a hypocrite with fake reads.

You don't get it. I am doing reads (1+) and you just attacking no posters to pretend you are doing something. Then say that I have no arguments behind my vote. You are cringey here.

[AliceK]

I hope you are not offended by me calling you cringey. If yes I am sorry, I am trying to avoid personal attacks. Game already have enough of these. You should try it too ^^

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Can we flash wagon Not Mafia?

That's tempting, but I think we can also wait for him to be replaced out.

What makes you think he'd be replaced?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Obviously he's not replaced it looks like^

VOTE: N_M

[ssbm_Kyouko]

wow normally these large games are mental, this is really quiet.
fua prvisional town read for his good spot about people posting without voting.

whack

VOTE: mozamis

not whack

Hardclaim Town Vigilante

ack(nowledged)
But no

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Getting the not good vibes from A50 and mozamis

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Even if he isn't real don't shoot him @vig

Not a good idea

If I were a vig I wouldn't shoot NM tonight

VOTE: ugly duck

If I were a vig I would shoot N_M tonight (maybe)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Nobody should publically CC. NM gets naturally resolved tonight. If he's true claiming then mafia deals with him. If he's fake claiming then the real Vig's bullet will be the CC.

Agree that if they are not Vig, then real vig should not CC.
However, the rest of it is not that simple.

I would normally say that vigilante should never counterclaim and just shoot them instead if possible, and I usually would not have an issue with an early likely-meme claim but in this specific setup, but with a mafia watcher and doctor that could very well be a play to get N_M shot and possibly healed to get the vigilante outted and kill them off early.

Not saying that's what I believe is happening, but it's one possible play that I do not want to have overlooked.

+1, forgot this was open

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Still, even if I was worried about N_M being watched I'd shoot there as scum has no way to block the vig directly so I'd still get a second shot and not die until N2 if seen on N1

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I personally find shooting early as town vig to be kind of a negative utility role use - am I alone on that one?

Probably? Town-controlled kills are good and we have the numbers to blow one or two, the important thing is to try to end up on odds before MELO

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Okay let's no lim

VOTE: No Lim

After all, we are more likey to kill scum than town here

?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I’m contributing my fair share. Don’t look at me.

This feels slippy, like when you're posting what you're thinking but it betrays a scum perspective
VOTE: fua

JV's saying what I'm thinking but he said it in real time already so very +town there

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also nyeh

[AliceK]

Still, even if I was worried about N_M being watched I'd shoot there as scum has no way to block the vig directly so I'd still get a second shot and not die until N2 if seen on N1

The optimal strat involving vig claim for Mafia would be to do that as Strongman. Send watcher and doctor to catch the Vig and kill them N2. Even if Vig manage to shoot someone Night 2 it doesn't impact the game as it reduces number of eliminations before Melo/Elo by 1.

[AliceK]

I think UglyDuck is Town, he is pushing a controversial opinion (not shooting, not liming as well?) which he should know could open him for attacks. I don't think as scum he would draw attention to himself like that.

Based on fact that Jackson is active and didn't get prodded or replaced out he is very likely Town.

Alice: "Three is scum because he isn't giving out many reads"

Also Alice: has exactly two reads, one of which is based solely on the fact a player posted in the thread

Yeah that wasn't a real read on me Alice.

Three reads. You forgot about yourself. Three is more than zero.

It is very real. I have a nose for early reads and your aggressive response is beyond my expectations. You probably though you can scare off a new player. Bad news. I am not going anywhere.

Cringe.

Also two reads vs three reads isn't the massive difference you think it is. Just admit you're being a hypocrite with fake reads.

You don't get it. I am doing reads (1+) and you just attacking no posters to pretend you are doing something. Then say that I have no arguments behind my vote. You are cringey here.

I'm not pretending anything, but nice assumption. You still lied and made a hypocritical accusation and you're trying to dance around the fact. Good bye Alice.

@NM:

Shoot Alice if town does some dumb shit again and votes me out first.

Scums really like to focus me and I don't know why, can you enlight me?

[AliceK]

That's not a fallacy lol. I was referencing a game that just happened where almost that exactly happened.

And that is also a fallacy called appeal to probability. You take it as granted when it is only likely to happen.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Even if he isn't real don't shoot him @vig

Not a good idea

If I were a vig I wouldn't shoot NM tonight

VOTE: ugly duck

Why not?

VOTE: fua

Would you mind clarifying, please?

If they actually answer you I will clarify. Although, it probably won't be needed if they answer you.

What's this about? Why does your answer depend on Dwlee answering fua? I can't think of what Dwlee may have to say in response to fua that would warrant your vote on fua. Feels like you're making an appearance of being deep with your reasoning but there's no way to bridge that gap

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hi Kyo ^-^

Hihi

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Wagon dissolving with no posting from the person the wagon is on

Yes this is completely natural hmm

No matter how scum indicative silence is for ssbm, I will not be voting a slot with one post. That makes no sense to me and had it gone through, it would've been a zero info flip regardless of flip.

A wagon forming isn't the same as it going through

This happens every game and for what

Well I am not aware of this meta and have never seen someone's scum meta just be silence. But if you are correct, in the future I would recommend waiting until ssbm starts posting and then pouncing on them once there's enough posts you can confidently SR. Chances of the wagon going through sky rocket compared to right now where I am very unlikely to be voting ssbm because I don't know about the meta. The fact that most of the wagon formed before ssbm even posted once doesn't make the wagon more appealing either. The meta may be valid but it looks silly to people who don't get it is my point. You didn't ask but oh well I typed this up might as well post it.

The sentiment wrt voting absent slots is fakeable but feels town to me. It's something I think of when I see wagons forming on missing players at least.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The thing I'm saying is that when Kyo came back I wanted there to be votes on her already. I think I got one or MAYBE two people to vote with me. There was no way that wagon was just going to completely go through because that's not how wagons work.

I would think you'd know better than to think any votes that were on me when I got here would have any impact on my catchup :thinking_emoji:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Getting the not good vibes from A50 and mozamis

Caught up to here now and he more recent A50 posts are better I think. I dont think I've played with scum!A50 yet though except maybe in dead silence and I dont count that one for meta purposes

[AliceK]

@NM: Shoot Alice if town does some dumb shit again and votes me out first.

i hate this so maybe not

Why are you asking NM to shoot me instead of trying to build a wagon?

[AliceK]

Apologies for not posting much. Haven't got much time between work and getting the first dose of the vaccine today.

That sounds more like scum Jackson.

[AliceK]

@NM: Shoot Alice if town does some dumb shit again and votes me out first.

i hate this so maybe not

Also nyeh

i totally get bumping to get a pagetop but eleven posts is a lot even for me

Good bye Alice.

@NM:

Shoot Alice if town does some dumb shit again and votes me out first.

reality to three,

neither of you are getting voted out rn, you only have one vote. idk why ur asking anybody to shoot or saying good byes atm

I'll respond to Alice and Duck in a few hours. But the last game I had was a fucking nightmare. I caught scum early into Day 1 but town mislimmed me instead and refused to vote out the caught scum afterwards because he told them not to. I was also Jailkeeper but got fake CC'd...by a VT.

So yeah I'm going to be bitter and paranoid towards town and I have every right to be. Especially when this player list features some of the townies from that game that either voted me or blindly sheeped scum. I am going to make my reads very loud and very clear in case dumb shit like that happens again.

That's not something very rare. Be more positive and nice. It really works.

But... you are still scum this game.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hmm

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I feel like when dwlee is willing to push on NAI things like activity it's scum-indicative from them, usually they're averse to that kind of thing

[AliceK]

@RCEnigma

Can you claim? If Mafia would have day chat it would be really suspicious to not claim for so long.

[AliceK]

@RCEnigma

Can you claim? If Mafia would have day chat it would be really suspicious to not claim for so long.

Why?

I would suspect that he discusses what to claim with the team.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It was beginner’s luck.

Wait actually what? This completely betrays a scum mindset - you wouldnt think of this as beginner's luck if you were town. Beginner's luck is when you do something accidentally that helps you succeed. The way JV describes the response as being like, suave (?), like intentionally tricky I guess, and the for fua to say it is beginners luck is like, betraying that fua benefits from that kind of manipulation. They perceive that kind of response as something that is beneficial.to them that they did accidentally, and attribute it to beginner's luck.

Idk, I also might have missed whatever fua had to say about me but I felt when reading about why they say I'm scum, like this doesnt make sense?

I'll vote RCE for deadline if needed but until then I feel good about VOTE: Fua

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It was beginner’s luck.

Wait actually what? This completely betrays a scum mindset - you wouldnt think of this as beginner's luck if you were town. Beginner's luck is when you do something accidentally that helps you succeed. The way JV describes the response as being like, suave (?), like intentionally tricky I guess, and the for fua to say it is beginners luck is like, betraying that fua benefits from that kind of manipulation. They perceive that kind of response as something that is beneficial.to them that they did accidentally, and attribute it to beginner's luck.

Idk, I also might have missed whatever fua had to say about me but I felt when reading about why they say I'm scum, like this doesnt make sense?

I'll vote RCE for deadline if needed but until then I feel good about VOTE: Fua

I was being sarcastic. Also, you were already voting me.

it doesn't seem like sarcasm to me

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also thought I was voting dwlee but I was having some misgivings there

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Saw JK claim and thought this was a different setup, assuming that is not CCed so should be resolved at some point UNVOTE:

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Since we don’t have much time left in the day anyway and there probably won’t be a counterwagon on the scum, I’m the Town Jailkeeper. Sheep me on Kyoko because they’re clearly obvious scumming and should be taken out. Their post is either grasping at straws to try to reinforce my wagon or calling me stupid enough to openly claim scum out in public, which I don’t appreciate.

Mafia will never kill me and I’ll be miselimmed later anyways. Better to force mafia to kill the suspicious slot and remove the utility of their strongman (if Kyoko isn’t their strongman anyways) than lose two townies.

Also kinda disgusting you think I'm calling you stupid with that last post - scum are thinking about the game the same as the rest of us (albeit from a different angle) and sometimes you can get a glimpse of the wrong mindset if you read into seemingly innocuous posts

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyouko you kinda just seem like scum here

Any thoughts on that

I think this is gonna be an inevitable consequence of playing runescape and efforting less

[ssbm_Kyouko]

They’re obviously scumming though. No townie would ever use their thought process to catch scum because it’s such an inherently flawed mindset to go about things with.

I caught S_S via his previous slotholder's "sarcastic" slip that betrayed a scum mindset in Owner's Market Blitz

Mistyx, early on in D1, said something along the lines of "I think this can be won through massclaim"

"That's going to be my excuse anyway"
They were ostensibly saying the setup is so townsided they dont have to effort on D1 as it's in the bag, but in reality they were exasperated that their 3rd partner was completely MIA and was being bussed by their other active partner Gamma. They replaced out shortly thereafter.

Ita completely natural to see the posts and think they're coming from town, but you have to consider "what would scum be thinking if they made that post" and sometimes a post makes so much more sense to come from scum than town

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm sad because I knew Fua was pr and if they weren't night killed I could have been like "I kill Fua for being a PR but I didn't so I'm town"

You don't want to actually talk about the content that's just happened? Just useless self-image stuff?

Yea

Like how you changed your profile picture

kek

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Nyeh

[AliceK]

apologies for being absent just had my covid booster and i'm sick/really tired so i'll try to get to this when i can

Looks like I missed a lot of content. I will post my reads in next few hours.
I saw fua claimed JK. Slightly panicky claim, ngl.

[AliceK]

Reads:

Town:
Dwlee
N_M
UglyDuck

Townlean:
Alice
Ythan and Iluvythan? Not sure about these slots.
StD

Null:
A50
Jackson
Andres

Scumlean:
RC
Aaron
Three

Lockscum:
Kyoko

There.

Aaron and RC are not svs for sure. I don't believe he is busing here or doing a theatre.

[AliceK]

From the last few pages I think A50 is scum with Three. His vote on Kyo was basically "a confirmed Town is voting Kyouko so I will vote her as well".

Three's reaction around A50 wagon was also suspicious. Jumped on with "whatever" attitude to unvote few posts later. Looks like a clamsy way to distance himself. If that's the case it would lock RC, Jackson and Kyo as Town. Along with N_M(possibly) and fua.
VOTE: A50

[AliceK]

From the last few pages I think A50 is scum with Three. His vote on Kyo was basically "a confirmed Town is voting Kyouko so I will vote her as well".

Three's reaction around A50 wagon was also suspicious. Jumped on with "whatever" attitude to unvote few posts later. Looks like a clamsy way to distance himself. If that's the case it would lock RC, Jackson and Kyo as Town. Along with N_M(possibly) and fua.
VOTE: A50

Indeed it woquld clear all those. But I am not sure if I'd pair with Three just from associations here

I did my case on Three. I can notice that there is a lot of variance in his voting, which doesn't point to a specific agenda, but it could be a part of his plan.

[AliceK]

I dont know how I feel about any of this. I just want a flip today.
VOTE: ssbm
Im willing to move my vote anywhere it is needed but have limited availability tomorrow. Since this is the biggest wagon, I'm choosing it for now. Sf there are any major changes, hopefully Im on but good luck if not.

High key Alice's tunnel on me with a seeming lack of awareness of everything else going on in the game just reminds me of Dwlee's scum play in the Opossum mini.

Alice what do you even plan to do if you manage to mislim me? You have almost nothing else going on in the game besides your tunnel on me. You've spent so much time misrepping my posts and arguing in bad faith, you have very little identity and presence in this game outside of that.

I made my catch-up. You are just fitting perfectly into a scum team with A50 considering last few pages.

[AliceK]

For the sake of a flip zzz VOTE: kyouko

Yeah, it is very unlikely that she flips scum. Why would you pursue this lim?

[AliceK]

This is bad lim, but for no lim is worse.
VOTE: Kyoko

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Since we don’t have much time left in the day anyway and there probably won’t be a counterwagon on the scum, I’m the Town Jailkeeper. Sheep me on Kyoko because they’re clearly obvious scumming and should be taken out. Their post is either grasping at straws to try to reinforce my wagon or calling me stupid enough to openly claim scum out in public, which I don’t appreciate.

Mafia will never kill me and I’ll be miselimmed later anyways. Better to force mafia to kill the suspicious slot and remove the utility of their strongman (if Kyoko isn’t their strongman anyways) than lose two townies.

Also kinda disgusting you think I'm calling you stupid with that last post - scum are thinking about the game the same as the rest of us (albeit from a different angle) and sometimes you can get a glimpse of the wrong mindset if you read into seemingly innocuous posts

It was beginner’s luck.

Wait actually what? This completely betrays a scum mindset - you wouldnt think of this as beginner's luck if you were town. Beginner's luck is when you do something accidentally that helps you succeed. The way JV describes the response as being like, suave (?), like intentionally tricky I guess, and the for fua to say it is beginners luck is like, betraying that fua benefits from that kind of manipulation. They perceive that kind of response as something that is beneficial.to them that they did accidentally, and attribute it to beginner's luck.

Idk, I also might have missed whatever fua had to say about me but I felt when reading about why they say I'm scum, like this doesnt make sense?

I'll vote RCE for deadline if needed but until then I feel good about VOTE: Fua

I was being sarcastic. Also, you were already voting me.

it doesn't seem like sarcasm to me

Disgusting? How should I have taken it then?

Either you’re:

A. Saying that I didn’t recognize Jackson’s post about me being suave, not posting content, using psychological tactics against him, and him having to be cautious around me as negative in the slightest.

B. Saying that I did recognize it as negative, but openly and unironically agreed with said negative statement without a hint of disbelief.

I don’t know how it could be interpreted otherwise.

I'm saying that there is no implication that you're stupid in my post, and that it's a disgusting misrepresentation of my intent to claim as much. There is nothing left to interpretation because it is clearly laid out what I think happened. A slip has nothing to do with your intelligence.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh, now I get it. This was all just to split the votes at the last minute. Haha wow, we should've just stuck with the wagon that was actually feasible to push through.

VOTE: RCEnigma

We have twenty hours left.

Oh shit 20 hours is soon soon

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh I missed deadline :/

[AliceK]

Kyoko really flipped scum and in addition a doctor. Dwlee is town from this flip for sure. He is not stupid to bus a doctor.

I am actually shocked that I wasn't shot.

[AliceK]

Yeah with this flip I have no leads. It's 3 am I will look into the game tomorrow.

[AliceK]

So considering eod 1. I would say:
Dwlee, Three and Aaron are likely Town.
Dwlee was pushing Kyoko hard from the beginning.
Three could jump on A50 wagon but decided to go with Kyoko, even if all 3 were scum, he would likely go for A50 as Doctor is more valuable role than other two.
Same for Aaron, he could jump on any wagon but decided to go with Kyoko.

A50 even though was on Kyoko wagon, he kind of didn't have a choice. His defence wasn't really convincing especially self-vote was really sus, could be that he tried to be eliminated instead of Kyoko.
Duck wasn't active eod so he can be a scum who missed opportunity to protect scum buddy.

[AliceK]

I think I will look at these people:
ILUVYTHAN, Ythan, Save The Dragons, Andresvmb
who missed opportunity to express opinion about A50 vs Kyoko. Expecially ILUVYTHAN and Ythan are doing completely nothing.

[AliceK]

End of Night 1

fua has died.

They were:

Spoiler:

Welcome, fua. You are a Town Jailkeeper.

Each night you may jail a player, protecting them from all nightkills and roleblocking them.

You win when the Mafia have been removed and at least one townie remains alive.

RCEnigma has died.

They were:

Spoiler:

Welcome, RCEnigma. You are a Vanilla Townie.

You have your voice and your vote.

You win when the Mafia have been removed and at least one townie remains alive.

Lowkey expected to get shot here lmfaooooo.

You thought you would be shot over a claimed jailkeeper??

Why would the vigi shoot the JK

What???!!? You think the vig shot fua and scum shot RCE?! I completely take back my townread on you.

JV thought he would be shot by vig. And you assumed he thought he would be shot by maf.

You can stop. It is silly conversation.

[AliceK]

JV thought process feels genuine. I think he gets a lot of hate for being cocky which is nai imo.

[AliceK]

I think that they are most likely town but it's hard to explain why when it's purely gut. Expecting to be shot is also such a strange thing to say, in a towny way.

Does this extend to Alice?

No. Alice doesn't have a typical mafia player's playstyle. You can't use general tells on them because of that.

What does it mean that my playstyle is not typical.

[AliceK]

Hmm, so far I was trding JV, because I think I know his scum meta (lurking to replace out, or be completely lost, memeing all game). This is something new, I think it, he might be frustrated not because of attack but because of Kyoko flip.

[AliceK]

I haven’t had enough time to play this game.

I’m the Vig. This is a hard CC. You can unvote me now.

We can either execute NotMafia and then you can let me shoot, or we can execute elsewhere and then I’ll shoot somewhere and then I’ll obviously get shot by the Scum and you guys can keep playing.

Interesting. Yeah, I actually figured out that vig was probably on RC wagon and shot wasn't coming from N_M.

[AliceK]

VOTE: SaveTheDragons

There are three people (or 4 if we count N_M) lurking in this game: Ythan, ILUVYTHAN and SaveTheDragons. Why you picked him? Or was it random.

[AliceK]

And to whoever said that RCE was a bad shot - screw you. The guy was defending Kyouko by calling them aimless Scum and joined that wagon super late when it looked inevitable. Yeah I though about shooting JacksonVirgo but I read them as Town and their reaction here makes me think they’re Town still.

It was a bad shot sorry my guy

UNVOTE:

You would have shot Jackson who is Town so haha

I probably would have shot alice, actually

But don't aim into head, I don't want to part ways with my pretty face.

[AliceK]

NM's claim was very clearly a meme claim. The only thing to consider is are his reads really this bad?
I'm having doubts on Three because he was the one constantly saying NM was vig which was ridiculous and without extra information or a different wincon, shouldn't be something to draw attention to.

I don't have anything else at the moment.

I think N_M being vig was plausible. I think he would do the same as vig.

I don't see why drawing attention to N_M vig claim was bad.

[AliceK]

Stop bickering and let's eliminate Ythan

OK
VOTE: Save The Dragons

[AliceK]

I think I'll explain why JV now before anyone asks:

Kyouko's being wagoned. She needs to be saved. Conf!Town Fua votes me. What better wagon for JV to jump on right next? After all, it wasn't them who started it. Then the wagon disappears and Kyouko is the lim again, unless he moves his vote to RCE, in which case whenever Kyouko flips he'd be is a very bad position, so he accepts the fact she was going down anyway.

Alice is also scummy for hopping on my wagon and staying on it, but I had a TR there at one point of the game (I don't even remember why, but I have it the name in some shade of green on my Word file).

i'm literally copying A50's work i think he's right

A50 just wants all from his wagon dead. Sure.

But you? You are saying that both scums were on A50 wagon and were actively pushing for A50 elimination till a very end of the day. I think for most of the time only me, Jackson, RC and N_M were on his wagon.
So you think that instead of jumping on RC's wagon which according to you was pure, Mafia started their own wagon. Could make sense if RC flipped red, but he didn't. I don't believe your reads are real. You just sheep A50 without taking into account his motives.

Yeah, Im convinced you are scum.

[AliceK]

i mean is it scummy to not be here

It is for sure scummy to not read the thread, sheep random person and saying that these are your reads.

[AliceK]

Wait, ILUVYTHAN believe N_M more than Andres. That's... interesting.

[AliceK]

@DW assume for a minute that JV flips Town. Where do you go?

You know, I am starting to get this feeling that JV is being dunked on hard because they so obviously defended flipped Scum. So it’s easy to get away with that push, and some players are going to look very good from potentially having doubted that JV is Scum if we’re wrong. I still think JV needs to die (frankly they’re never going to get NK’ed and one Scum is probably defending there while the other one is SR’ing there to avoid any association if this in fact flips Town).

Look at how AliceK and Aaron are interacting towards each other, and towards the JV wagon, and tell me if there isn’t anything there that doesn’t raise suspicions for you. Aaron thinks one Scum is on wagon, and the other is off wagon. Of course, if one is on wagon, it’s not them, but then who? And now they refuse to say who is even a TR or a SR. Alice TR’s Aaron and thinks JV is Scum, which obviously fits with how most other players are viewing the game. But they themselves were on A50 and avoided Kyouko until they were literally hammered - so how come they have so much difficulty empathizing with JV’s point of view?

I was on A50 wagon, because for me RCE and Kyoko were much less likely to flip scum. I was wrong, so I will likely pay fo that. Happens, if I get shot for that so be it. But if JV flips scum, I don't think I should be shot. I haven't played scum yet (except for 4p micro), but I am not that stupid to risk protecting my scum buddy when my partner is already doing that.

[AliceK]

@DW assume for a minute that JV flips Town. Where do you go?

You know, I am starting to get this feeling that JV is being dunked on hard because they so obviously defended flipped Scum. So it’s easy to get away with that push, and some players are going to look very good from potentially having doubted that JV is Scum if we’re wrong. I still think JV needs to die (frankly they’re never going to get NK’ed and one Scum is probably defending there while the other one is SR’ing there to avoid any association if this in fact flips Town).

Look at how AliceK and Aaron are interacting towards each other, and towards the JV wagon, and tell me if there isn’t anything there that doesn’t raise suspicions for you. Aaron thinks one Scum is on wagon, and the other is off wagon. Of course, if one is on wagon, it’s not them, but then who? And now they refuse to say who is even a TR or a SR. Alice TR’s Aaron and thinks JV is Scum, which obviously fits with how most other players are viewing the game. But they themselves were on A50 and avoided Kyouko until they were literally hammered - so how come they have so much difficulty empathizing with JV’s point of view?

I was on A50 wagon, because for me RCE and Kyoko were much less likely to flip scum. I was wrong, so I will likely pay fo that. Happens, if I get shot for that so be it. But if JV flips scum, I don't think I should be shot. I haven't played scum yet (except for 4p micro), but I am not that stupid to risk protecting my scum buddy when my partner is already doing that.

You do realize this sounds somewhat silly right? If JV flips Scum, then you shouldn’t be shot? If you’re Town, then your argument should always be that you shouldn’t be shot regardless of JV’s alignment because it’s wrong. I understand what you’re hinting at - it’s likely that one of the pushers for A50 given Kyouko’s flip is most likely Scum, and you’ll probably have to flip at some point in the face of that (particularly if JV is Town). But what I would prefer to see from you is some stronger logic as to why JV is Scum, not a self-defense.

I also would like someone to tell me why Ythan is being allowed to play this way. Can someone else read that ISO and tell me what’s there to town read?

It's not silly. I can see that everyone are just considering who out of me and Jackson should be eliminated and who should be shot. I am just hoping for the best that your reads are good and Jackson is actually scum.

I am almost sure that STD is scum, if you take into account what Kyoko did before was hammered.

[AliceK]

I am almost sure that STD is scum, if you take into account what Kyoko did before was hammered.

explain

I will elaborate when I will find time somewhere tomorrow. There is much to say.

[AliceK]

Let me explain why I am voting Save The Dragons and why most likely right now we are on path to quickly lose the game.

At post 503 Kyoko wagon was getting a momentum with a third vote from Ugly Duck. Before that happened we have multiple people with no reaction to the wagon:

Save The Dragons

Voted mozamis closer to the day start and his vote stayed. Explained that because he wasn't feeling good, but it was 4 days between his last content post and eod. Of course could be that he ignored game for 4 days, but he could also willing not post, because there are 2 people who try to eliminate someone else than Kyoko, so why do anything. But the fact he jumped on me and Jackson who were drawing people away from the Kyoko wagon in my opinion is a part of scum agenda. No one will ask questions when me and Jackson will flip town, because we were protecting scum.

ILUVYTHAN

The same you can say about ILUVYTHAN, except for the reason why they were not posting which was sheeping Ythan. I think their recent reads are very careful, which is scum indicative. They put only JV as a scumlean. Quite suspicious to not have a strong scum read at this point of the game. 2nd person to be gone.

Ythan

Ythan is actually unreadable to me. Ignored what was going on Day 1 completely. Could have the same reason as STD, that someone is protecting Kyo, so do nothing. 3rd person to be gone.

Now people who were involved in Kyoko elimination:

Dwlee

Not much to be said here. I think Dwlee is to smart too bus detection immune mafia, especially that he had many opportunities to change a direction of the lim, but decided to stick to Kyoko. On the wagon he started. Strong Town read here.

Ugly Duck

Was a 3rd vote on Kyoko and decided to not change. Of course it could be "Oh no, I screwed up" moment in which he decided to not do anything especially that me and Jackson come to the rescue. Jumped on people who were on RC wagon. Could be in team with Jackson, but I think that giving a momentum to partner's wagon is something what he as scum wouldn't do.

Not Mafia

No clue about this guy. I think there are 0 information about his alignment. He wouldn't claim vigilante as Mafia? Could be, but what if he planned to do that, before even getting a RC.

Three

He switched to Kyoko two times. The first time was quite scummy, because he immidiatly went back to A50, but the 2nd vote had an influence on who will be eliminated. I don't think he would switch from A50 to Kyoko as scum, without providing any arguments behind any of these wagons. I am very sure he is Town.

Aaron

I think his jump on Kyoko wagon was at the point where it was likely that Kyoko will be limed anyway. Weird interaction with Jackson Day 2. He is quite likely scum, because of 2 reasons: he is quite passive about Andres wanting to kill both me and Jackson. Complaining about being a potential target, but doesn't provide his reads. Scums have tendency to not interfere when Town is settled where to lim. I think it is very likely that he is scum with someone from RC wagon. Read that he is a scum with Jackson is silly. No idea where Anders get it.

Almost50

I have no idea how he wasn't eliminated Day 1, well thankfully no one was listening to me. He still can be a scum with Kyoko. He was chilling too much eod 1 which makes sense if it didn't matter who should be eliminated and could be that he wanted to be eliminated to protect doctor (which is probably the best mafia role as it has a detection immunity). Im sure he is not scum with Jackson and STD.

Who left is andres who is claimed Vig, so nothing to say about it and Jackson who was on A50 wagon.

JacksonVirgo

I think he is Town. I did the same Day 1, pushed hard Almost50 which was way more scummy than Kyo imo. I think his frustration Day 2 wasn't actually caused by elimination of Mafia, but rather Aaron's bad post about night kills (yeah, it was stupid Aaron, jeez). I genuinly think he is solving in oposite to most of the people in the game. I think he is Town.


I think everyone are doing follow the Vig, which obviously gives no information about anyone. Surprisingly.

I think I am just unlucky that I pushed my reads too hard Day 1. I am being confident, because I am usually on point with reads and had many situations when I regret going with the flow.

[AliceK]

reads list update:
andres is very town now idk why i was doubting him before i think i was crazy

im quickly losing faith in my alice townread

i think thats about it

ty for coming to my tedtalk

please tune in for my next talk entited 'the amazing ythan'

So you stoped townreading me, because you are on my "to execute" list? Scummy.

VOTE: ILUVYTHAN

[AliceK]

I actually think it must be a lim/shot on Alice/JV here.
JV's attitude towards the game is just awful if they are town (no offense, just peacing out, self voting, and then returning at eod doesn't leave a lot of inspiration to be had).
Alice's reads list leaves JV as town and STD as the only skum read. And now there are people pivoting to STD/Alice instead of JV/Alice.

You misunderstood my reads. STD is not the only read I have. I am certain 1 scum+ is in STD/Ythan/ILUVYTHAN. Also there are scum teams which just don't make sense. Like STD/Almost50. I can make a list of teams if you want.

[AliceK]

Let's consolidate onto Alice or Aaron please. We have less than 24 hours and need to make sure a wagon goes through.

Yes let us kill Aaron OwO

Yeah that's actually possible he is scum.
VOTE: Aaron