Micro 1035: Commandless Chain of Command [game over!]

[Something_Smart]

i really don't know, i don't know why scum have made any of the choices they did this game tbh

I mean from an IV/Dwlee perspective I don't see what was weird about their plays at all.

But CC'ing you if that was our plan is about the simplest thing imaginable. I don't see how that could be our plan and we just abandon it immediately.

[skitter30]

I mean like i get what you're saying and how it kinda makes sense from a mechanical standpoint but like it just doesnt fit into my reads at all

Maybe your plan was just to come into today and make a mechanical mess

I dont know

[Something_Smart]

If your idea of a mechanical mess is Dwlee has a high chance of confirming themself as scum then yeah I guess that could have been our plan.

How are you seeing that as most likely? I really don't get it.

[skitter30]

How is dwlee confirming themself as scum again?

(Sorry i feel like i'm being really slow and and indecisive this week, i'm trying to sort this out and not miss anything and i know everyone is waiting for me but i'm kinda sick and not firing on all cylinders rn)

Like iv/dwlee just doesn't make sense to me, iv is trying to flip dwlee and is sus of him, and their two claims together just dont mesh and make sense as partners. They contradict each other and are picking too many arguments in the wrong places as scum. Iv is too suspicious and it just doesnt match the way dwlee is approaching the situation, and they dont make sense together in my mind. Like i just cant buy it

That makes iv town so i'm left with the three of you.

[skitter30]

Dwlee/darby is weird cuz dwlee has a mechanical guilty on darby and darby is trying to flip dwlee so like i guess possible but kinda bizarre ? Like idk more likely than iv/dwlee but bizarre nonetheless

Like darby is fakeclaiming nea (so i suppose this is the pr claim they were told abt), and dwlee is fakeclaiming tracker in such a way where they're apparently psychic in the exactly way where they clear a townie and have lockscummed their own partner and their partner has lockscummed them and its just bizarre i guess ? Like i guess in this universe they're trying to push you (as dwlee has you confscum) but darby isnt pushing you, he's pushing his own partner and just like why and like i guess he has to but its just ??? i dont get it

[Something_Smart]

Dwlee's result makes scum-IV/town-Dwlee impossible, since IV's N1 visit to you would have to be a roleblock but you weren't roleblocked.

If IV contradicted Dwlee's result, it would make town-IV/town-Dwlee impossible, obviously. This would guarantee Dwlee-scum.

If Dwlee is scum and not with IV, this was the massive risk they ran by guessing.

[Something_Smart]

They contradict each other

They literally don't, what are you even talking about? They corroborate each other.

[Something_Smart]

Talking about the claims there, not the actions necessarily, idk if that's what you meant. But you said the claims don't mesh together when they absolutely do.

[Something_Smart]

Like that's just confirmation bias... how on earth can you say that my/Dwlee's claims mesh but IV/Dwlee's don't? Dwlee literally backed up IV's action.

[skitter30]

And you/dwlee dont really make sense either because why are you fakeclaiming each other

But neither of you really feel like you're pushing each other's flip, neither if you have a sense of urgency about getting flipped or not

And i guess also dwlee managed to create an exact universe where they confed a townie and have to push their own partner, but like you're not really trying to get dwlee flipped (you're mostly shading iv and inexplicably townreading darby) and dwlee isnt really trying to get you flipped either

--
And darby/ss tbh makes the most sense from a mechanical standpoint and is the least convoluted and also kinda makes everything fit together (ignoring the fact that i townread darby):
- dwlee is just telling the truth and did indeed see iv and isnt locking themself into a mechanical puzzle
- nea is a stupidly easy fakeclaim
- you're inexplicably townreading darby
- tbf i still dont know why you cc dwlee and not me but both your and darby's claims are sort of empty and not proveable

Ok i kinda talked myself back into ss/darby again

[Something_Smart]

neither if you have a sense of urgency about getting flipped or not

w h a t

I have made over a hundred posts in five days, if that's not a sense of urgency then

what the hell is

[Something_Smart]

- you're inexplicably townreading darby

...

[skitter30]

They contradict each other and are picking too many arguments in the wrong places as scum.

Maybe contradict is the wrong word but they dont have a unified story coming out of this for where scum is, and they keep clashing on nitty-gritty random unessential things in a way that i dont think scum would

I wasnt talking abt the literal actions/claim, i get that those corroborate each other

[Something_Smart]

Maybe contradict is the wrong word but they dont have a unified story coming out of this for where scum is

But that's just distancing, because if they were both town, then they should both be pushing me/DArby. IV doesn't really seem to have been thinking critically about why Dwlee would or wouldn't try to guess his action.

[skitter30]

Like my objections to iv/dwlee are playbased, not necessarily mechanics based

Darby/dwlee is just too convoluted ? Like they're both mechanically conf scum to each other and like its bizarre to me that they would choose such a play? And this also requires dwlee to be psychic

So either way i'm left with you being scum ...

[skitter30]

I tracked IV to skitter N1 and to no one on N2

? I’m pretty sure I visited skitter last night too LOL VOTE: dwlee

there’s no way dwlee can get a no result in me if they’re tracker right?

UNVOTE: Dwleeuhh I need to thjnk about this but I will probably revote

Bizarre on a partner

[Something_Smart]

We basically went from D1 right into lylo. Why would you expect your reads to be good?

[Something_Smart]

Bizarre on a partner

It's also bizarre from a townie!

[skitter30]

We basically went from D1 right into lylo. Why would you expect your reads to be good?

I mean sure they're possibly trash and i could be tunneled but i can't make the solve make sense otherwise >.>

There's just too many small interactions between dwlee_iv today that look anti-associative to me

[Something_Smart]

I don't understand why arguing or disagreeing is anti-associative.

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

I chose IV because multiple people thought the claim was suspicious/unlikely to be true. Based on the setup I knew that the roleblocker could give a fake non-kill night target so I targeted him again + he hammered the no lim before everyone checked in

I tracked IV to skitter N1 and to no one on N2

? I’m pretty sure I visited skitter last night too LOL VOTE: dwlee

wtf unvote me

dude unvote because if darby is here they just hammer. My result confirms you town

wait is it possible for iv to be scum with my result

This is also part of why I opposed the iv lim btw, I figured I could guilty him if he wasn't actually a PR

also how the fuck do you think I'd guess your n1 target unless I'm literally psychic

And if I were scum I could have just said anyone else had no result unless I actually roleblocked you and was worried about a watcher (but that would still give a 1v1 so)

Where were we

Okay since this is finally happening and the mind hack and worst wagons are boring

VOTE: IV

Claim please

ah there’s the E1 (:

and no I’m not claiming rn wtf

oh jeez we only have 3 days? Double wtf

okok fine if I don’t have anything good for you guys in ~48 hrs I’ll claim.

Like if I'm scum with him couldn't I have just gone "IV claim <blank>" when I E-1'd him instead of him stalling to "verify" with me?

If we kill SS I'll tell you why it's darby and not me tomorrow

? well we might not kill SS today

i would rather have a good idea of what the solve is today

Well the other option is me and then the game is over so...

These feel anti-associative ro me

[Something_Smart]

I... I feel like it isn't that hard to come up with stuff like that as scum? Especially 949, how the hell is that anti-associative at all.

I feel like you're severely underselling their abilities. They are not newbies, and it is not exactly hard to play this day as scum. Dwlee can make up some BS justification for targeting IV. IV can express some doubt about Dwlee and Dwlee can respond reasonably to that.

You are familiar with distancing... I saw you with lilith in City that Never Sleeps. You two did

that

completely unprompted, this is nothing compared to that. And it's all just lip service anyway because they know your vote is the one that decides, so that frees them even more to do whatever.

[skitter30]

What i liked is:
- dwlee figuring out the implications in real time (i.e. i didnt grt the sense that they had already thought thru the implications, like i imagined they would have if scum anc this was planned out)
- while dwlee was coming to the conclusiont that iv is town, iv is coming to the conclusion that dwlee is scum -> this is what i mean by uncoordinated, if they're partners with a corroborated story why do their conclusions feel so disjointed and unplanned?
- like 954 dwlee has to tell iv the implications of the result -> wouldnt that have been discussed already as scum?
- dwlee seemed to have been planning the use of their action since iv claimed, to which dwlee's reaction made you think they didnt know scum had a freeclaim. They cant be scum together and plotted the fakeclaim while dwlee didnt know they had a fakeclaim ...
- why did iv claim like that to begin ...

Like yeah the actions line up, sure. From your pov i can see why it.looks scummy. From my pov them both telling the truth seems like a reasonable conclusion, and there's several small details pointing tothem haveing *not* worked on corroborating the story

Like i understand distancing, but if the story was corroborated the pieces would fit together more, and the overall picture would be more clean and less jagged imo

[Something_Smart]

- dwlee figuring out the implications in real time (i.e. i didnt grt the sense that they had already thought thru the implications, like i imagined they would have if scum anc this was planned out)

I figured some things out in real time as well... and DArby didn't really figure them out at all. Surely this counts against a me/DArby team at least as much as it counts against Dwlee being scum?

- while dwlee was coming to the conclusiont that iv is town, iv is coming to the conclusion that dwlee is scum -> this is what i mean by uncoordinated, if they're partners with a corroborated story why do their conclusions feel so disjointed and unplanned?

I mean, Dwlee

had

to come to the conclusion IV was town. Given that, it makes total sense to me why IV would not want to do likewise as that makes them look very heavily aligned. In my opinion, IV laid it on too thick and town-him actually should have been more trusting of Dwlee, but he was afraid of looking too aligned.

- like 954 dwlee has to tell iv the implications of the result -> wouldnt that have been discussed already as scum?

954 isn't necessarily Dwlee explaining anything to IV... it's not like IV would never have made the vote he did if he knew that. It's just Dwlee explaining why that vote is bad from Dwlee's POV, which doesn't seem that hard to fake to me?

- dwlee seemed to have been planning the use of their action since iv claimed, to which dwlee's reaction made you think they didnt know scum had a freeclaim. They cant be scum together and plotted the fakeclaim while dwlee didnt know they had a fakeclaim ...

Well obviously I misjudged whether that was a fake townslip. I really should have realized the caveat about them both being scum, because as I said it makes sense for Dwlee to fake-shade IV for the wrong reason (to distance from the real reason which is that IV was deliberately stalling, something he admitted to by the way!).

- why did iv claim like that to begin ...

Either to discuss with Dwlee if the doctor claim was actually wise, or to see if the wagon would go away on its own. He admitted the latter was true, at least, in 1033.

[Dwlee99]

I've already said this but if I was scum with IV and E-1ing him I could have (and would have) told him what to claim