What Makes a Good Third Party?

[Klick]

I'll respond with more relevant content later

But I think Jesters are a really good role when everyone is aware that one exists. 'Punishing town for eliminating non-town' is fine as a concept when everyone knows that's what's up. The analysis of the difference between Jester play and Mafia play can be a lot more interesting than just 'this player isn't town'.

[Ythan]

Anyone who has been accused of being a jester have any thoughts about it?

[Klick]

I've got loads of experience being called a Jester under my belt

[Klick]

Everyone is going about this the wrong way. None of these are good criteria. The number one criteria for a good Third Party role is that it gives the player a reason to interact and play the day game with the other players in thread.

Serial Killer is a fine role because even though it's hard to win with, you have to walk a tightrope during the day - scummy enough to avoid getting shot at night, townie enough to avoid elimination during the day.

Survivor is a bad role because the best way to play it is to announce you're a survivor and peace out of the thread. There's literally no reason not to peace out of the thread. No one cares about you.

Because of this I generally hold Jesters in generally higher regard than many, because for all its sins, Jesters at least have to play mafia. Something like a pollster that has to "name the alignment of three players at the end of day 3" might be 'more balanced', but it drains the energy out of the game, because like the survivor there's just not a strong reason to post. Various variants of this include handing out marks to players and having a certain number of marked players alive (why interact), trying to find a specific power role (outside of claim WIFOM, why interact), etc.

Designing a good third party role means making one that plays within the framework of mafia, and that means making them have to play the day game. A lot of times proposed third party roles focus on the night game, with the result that the player who gets them just does not have a motive to play mafia, which drains the energy out of the room. Don't think about role interactions, think about player interactions if you want to make one.

If you just need a good third party role that works "I'm a player who needs X to be eliminated by the town" is a good one. It's about the impact of a non-game ending jester, but much more fun for everyone involved. Mafia Traitors/Usurpers work similarly in that regard, except they hinder the scum team.

I think this is a Good Post
Make roles for fun and interesting day play

[MegAzumarill]

It feels like you dismissed the points in the OP to make basically the same points you just dismissed.

[MegAzumarill]

But that does mean we are in agreement