Constructive feedback desperately needed

[Nancy Drew 39]

I have extremely serious neurological developmental disorders which directly impact my ability tounderstand and communicate effectively. Because of this, I both often misunderstand things and communicate my thoughts in a way that very regrettably offends others.

I am specifically referring to how I play mafia games. Here’s the thing, I can sincerely apologize and try to do better with the best of intentions but it’s the people who have issues with the way I process information and communicate my thoughts who can help me to breakthrough this extremely debilitating pattern but I need extremely specific, direct, targeted feedback - both to have the specific objectionable comments explained to me and how I could have expressed myself better.

I honestly think this is the only way things will get better but I can’t do it without their help. I need to understand what my brain failed to process and how I can express myself in a way that doesn’t upset people. I am literally begging those affected individuals to share with me how I can be better. Please.

[Ythan]

Good luck with this. But at the same time I don't think you owe anything to people you have to beg to even tell you what you did wrong.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Good luck with this. But at the same time I don't think you owe anything to people you have to beg to even tell you what you did wrong.

Thanks for that. <3

But I’m very serious about this. If several people have told me they have issues playing with me, then they have to power to kick me from multiple games and I am helpless to do anything about that.

Also, the obvious common denominator here has to be me. I have to be doing something wrong. or that
wouldn’t keep happening to me.

So sure, doing this doesn’t feel great but I’m really hoping that they can see how desperate and sincere I am to change things but I have really tried and I don’t think I can do it without this very targeted direct specific feedback and I’m hoping if they can maybe reference specific posts, so that I can both understand better and communicate my thoughts more effectively, this will no longer be an issue.

So as obviously humiliating as this might seem, I can’t afford to bury my head in the sand and worry about my pride because absolutely nothing will ever change if I continue to do that and I need things to change and I am literally dependent on the very people whom I’ve upset to help me to do that. I don’t have any other choice, the only other alternative is to hopelessness and resignation.

[Nancy Drew 39]

In a nutshell, if those people won’t help me to understand and advise me on how to do better, then my only other option is to leave the site and as delusional as that probably sounds, I’m hoping that no one seriously wants to push me out of MS if there’s a real way to resolve things to hopefully everyone’s satisfaction.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Spoiler:

okay that's fair

realistically i wouldn't mind that pair bc you're both south of null for me so two birds one stone etc

Why?

Why are your reads so bad this game Dats?

Why are your reads so bad this game Dats?

yikes. yeah, you're not living until intermission, sorry. your slot was already scummy as fuck, and you're just tanking it further.

And you’re never getting a paragon unless you improve.

Why are your reads so bad this game Dats?

yikes. yeah, you're not living until intermission, sorry. your slot was already scummy as fuck, and you're just tanking it further.

And you’re never getting a paragon unless you improve.

Dats, are you actually scum here because since when are you this shit at reading me?

Yeah, setious question. Because I don’t think you’re actually that bad.

Catboi slot + Mala please

Accept RH9

I will probably be tunneling your slot. Good news, is I won’t be too worried about Mala now, so win/win.

Alyssa probably won’t be getting a paragon this game.

I can only give direct feedback on the most recent stuff since I barely remember specifics of anything before that anymore, but the above posts detail a lot of what makes you difficult to play with for me at times.

Holiday Dance was a bit of an anomaly for me since I had a massive hiccup in my personal life that caused me to be emotionally unstable for a few weeks (for context, this was literally the day before you replaced in), and what I remembered about you was that disagreements tended to escalate into full blown arguments that were not productive for the game and would often just compromise me enough on an emotional level to not be thinking clearly about what I'm doing.

These posts and ones like them give a strong impression that you are associating that one read you believe somebody is incorrect on as a reason to believe that they are weaker players in general over it. This impression tends to stay way past that point of the game, to where other posts where you pressure players carry that same weight behind them. It essentially just means that they feel attacked whenever they don't agree with a read that you have, since you generally call them out about it.

Every player thinks about the game in their own way, and ultimately it's hard to give advice about what to do instead if you don't agree on a read. The obvious answer is to just ask them why and try to find the flaw in their personal logic that is giving them the wrong answer, but I don't know how your thoughts function enough to be able to tell you what angle to tackle it from.

Ultimately, it just comes down to working with people and engaging into them. It comes across as good faith if you make a genuine attempt to try to understand their thoughts and don't try to push your own onto them. It's definitely a skill to be able to argue with people in their own terms over yours, but that's how the most charismatic players manage to get people on their side.

Idk how productive or understandable this is for you but worst case scenario it might give other people ideas too

[Alyssa The Lamb]

Tl:Dr a lot of big words and rambling

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

okay that's fair

realistically i wouldn't mind that pair bc you're both south of null for me so two birds one stone etc

Why?

Why are your reads so bad this game Dats?

Why are your reads so bad this game Dats?

yikes. yeah, you're not living until intermission, sorry. your slot was already scummy as fuck, and you're just tanking it further.

And you’re never getting a paragon unless you improve.

Why are your reads so bad this game Dats?

yikes. yeah, you're not living until intermission, sorry. your slot was already scummy as fuck, and you're just tanking it further.

And you’re never getting a paragon unless you improve.

Dats, are you actually scum here because since when are you this shit at reading me?

Yeah, setious question. Because I don’t think you’re actually that bad.

Catboi slot + Mala please

Accept RH9

I will probably be tunneling your slot. Good news, is I won’t be too worried about Mala now, so win/win.

Alyssa probably won’t be getting a paragon this game.

I can only give direct feedback on the most recent stuff since I barely remember specifics of anything before that anymore, but the above posts detail a lot of what makes you difficult to play with for me at times.

Holiday Dance was a bit of an anomaly for me since I had a massive hiccup in my personal life that caused me to be emotionally unstable for a few weeks (for context, this was literally the day before you replaced in), and what I remembered about you was that disagreements tended to escalate into full blown arguments that were not productive for the game and would often just compromise me enough on an emotional level to not be thinking clearly about what I'm doing.

These posts and ones like them give a strong impression that you are associating that one read you believe somebody is incorrect on as a reason to believe that they are weaker players in general over it. This impression tends to stay way past that point of the game, to where other posts where you pressure players carry that same weight behind them. It essentially just means that they feel attacked whenever they don't agree with a read that you have, since you generally call them out about it.

Every player thinks about the game in their own way, and ultimately it's hard to give advice about what to do instead if you don't agree on a read. The obvious answer is to just ask them why and try to find the flaw in their personal logic that is giving them the wrong answer, but I don't know how your thoughts function enough to be able to tell you what angle to tackle it from.

Ultimately, it just comes down to working with people and engaging into them. It comes across as good faith if you make a genuine attempt to try to understand their thoughts and don't try to push your own onto them. It's definitely a skill to be able to argue with people in their own terms over yours, but that's how the most charismatic players manage to get people on their side.

Idk how productive or understandable this is for you but worst case scenario it might give other people ideas too

Thanks, I really appreciate this. <3

[Nancy Drew 39]

Tl:Dr a lot of big words and rambling

Do you have any suggestions though on what I could have done differently? Because understanding whqt not to do is only half of the equation. I need to understand better way of getting my point across that won’t be offensive or upsetting if possible. So how do I convey to someone scumreading me that they’re vote on me is wrong or “bad”? I can say “you’re wrong” or “bad vote” but is that the extent of it?

I do feel bad in retrospect how I treated people especially you and Taly. I just got very disheartened that I couldn’t get through to anyone but I know that’s not an excuse. This is so extremely kind of you to offer to help me, I especially feel really bad about how I treated you. You’re a really great person and an awesome friend Alyssa. I’m very sorry I let you down, it won’t ever happen again. <3

[Firebringer]

I think you would just do better if you just took a look at the person you are talking to, go back and find whatever arguments they have made or similar arguments, then just frame whatever you want in those terms.

for example, someone is very convinced on posts that look like buddying, so you focus on posts that are trying to subtly encourage/trust between people. Or maybe a person finds compelling arguments in which certain/words phrases are used then try to frame how the person ur scumreading is doing that or similar enough to where its essentially same thing.

Like if we take last dance game here were arguments u used for 99% of reads:
1) this is how X played with me before
2) this isn't how X reads me

Neither are good for convincing someone else besides urself and you can't get people to "listen to you" before ur first willing to them and hear what they think is important/valuable/insightful.

Like know ur audience is so crucial to convincing people and ur often talking to an audience of yourself. Which is fine to convince urself but ur not going to get anywhere with anyone else till u actually just follow that basic principle of writing: Know your audience.
What does your audience like?
What does it hate?
Etc

Here is also two more things you can do that are very simple but will also be challenging but will automatically see a huge difference in how you play.
write out your post, and then wait 5 minutes to post. Read it again and if you think its good, go for it. [adjust time as needed but it always should be at least a minute]

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think you would just do better if you just took a look at the person you are talking to, go back and find whatever arguments they have made or similar arguments, then just frame whatever you want in those terms.

for example, someone is very convinced on posts that look like buddying, so you focus on posts that are trying to subtly encourage/trust between people. Or maybe a person finds compelling arguments in which certain/words phrases are used then try to frame how the person ur scumreading is doing that or similar enough to where its essentially same thing.

Like if we take last dance game here were arguments u used for 99% of reads:
1) this is how X played with me before
2) this isn't how X reads me

Neither are good for convincing someone else besides urself and you can't get people to "listen to you" before ur first willing to them and hear what they think is important/valuable/insightful.

Like know ur audience is so crucial to convincing people and ur often talking to an audience of yourself. Which is fine to convince urself but ur not going to get anywhere with anyone else till u actually just follow that basic principle of writing: Know your audience.
What does your audience like?
What does it hate?
Etc

Here is also two more things you can do that are very simple but will also be challenging but will automatically see a huge difference in how you play.
write out your post, and then wait 5 minutes to post. Read it again and if you think its good, go for it. [adjust time as needed but it always should be at least a minute]

Yeah, I can do that. I will maybe ask for a notes pt in every game and try to break my argument down into smaller chunks.

So what are good arguments to either get people to either townread me and/or take my reads seriously?

Like for example, wrt to Shiro while I did mention us hydraing together, I don’t think I ever discussed specifically Shiro would actually do in our hydra discord chats while we were hydraing in a game. I just auto assumed that everyone would understand my thought patterns wrt without ever having to clearly spell that out. However, dong any like that is extremely mentally challenging for me : that is breaking things down from the general to the specific. Things are extremely clear to me but often when I try to convey those thoughts to others, I fail to explain them well and getting emotional only aggravates this problem.

Fun fact: I actually discovered by accident that playing mafia greatly helps my ADHD. It’s like it’s literally training my brain to focus better. organize my thoughts and concentrate better and it has had a major positive impact on my everyday life.

Anyway, I’ll do a notes pt and try to write things our first and try not to get so frustrated either with myself or others. I have frequently gotten asked if I have a reading comprehension problem and that is actually not too far from the truth. I can comprehend things, it’s just alot harder for me than most people.

[Save The Dragons]

for whatever it's worth i've enjoyed playing with you

i think the main advice i'd give you is that people play differently from each other and different from you, what matters most to you in terms of how to play is going to be different for different people and it can be frustrating but it's totally okay if you think about it, if everyone acted the same way mafia would be boring. dont get discouraged when something isn't working, try a different tact because maybe this person needs a different thing to be receptive.

[Nancy Drew 39]

for whatever it's worth i've enjoyed playing with you

i think the main advice i'd give you is that people play differently from each other and different from you, what matters most to you in terms of how to play is going to be different for different people and it can be frustrating but it's totally okay if you think about it, if everyone acted the same way mafia would be boring. dont get discouraged when something isn't working, try a different tact because maybe this person needs a different thing to be receptive.

<3 Same here.

Thanks for this and I will try to get less frustrated when people aren’t understanding what I’m saying, That said, that due to a neurologically based mental block, I greatly struggle with this and more often than not, struggle to do that effectively. So, I’m asking for advice on how to hopefully overcome that.

[Ythan]

You definitely want to not insult people. Especially for their play.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think the only time i’ve been frustrated with you is during anime theme when i tried to argue with you for days on why Flavour was scum but nothing seemed to work.
That could also just be aspired to Flavour being pretty good at pocketing though, so not really an "complaint" eh.
I don’t really have much problems playing with you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think the only time i’ve been frustrated with you is during anime theme when i tried to argue with you for days on why Flavour was scum but nothing seemed to work.
That could also just be aspired to Flavour being pretty good at pocketing though, so not really an "complaint" eh.
I don’t really have much problems playing with you.

If that hadn’t literally been a tm game, I 100% would have replaced out because the excessive toxicity that the mods refused to do anything about, made that game - hands down - one of the most torturous and unfun games I’d ever played.

But you’re right, scum!FL - especially in a tm game - is off the charts aggressively manipulative. Even in non-tm games sometimes.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

I’ve given up trying to express my thoughts in words because i’m finally resigned myself that I can’t clearly make myself truly understood that way, so I’m just attempting to communicate my thoughts a different way.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So here’s the thing. In the 4 months since my petition ban, I have had lots of time to reflect and as a result I’m aware of how I allowed mafia to essentially take over my life, which is why I’m currently only limiting myself to games I really want to play but in order for that to actually happen, I really need a chance to prove that I’ve taken all of this excellent feedback into account and really changed.