Micro 1041: Geriatric F11 [Postgame]

[catboi]

Vote Count 4.04

Sleepless Assassin (1):

Roadkill

Roadkill (1):

Sleepless Assassin

Not Voting (1):

joqiza

With 3 alive, it's 2 to eliminate.

The post cap will reset in

(expired on 2022-02-20 01:00:00)

Deadline for Day 4 is February 23 at 12:00 AM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-02-23 01:00:00)

Reserve Posts Used

joqiza (1)

[Roadkill]

Actually Roadkill when you see this I am a bit curious what you mean in 593. You're saying you pre-write posts at times and then split them up and post them in chunks? To what end? Readability I guess? Or trying to facilitate real time interactions or something?

no, actually!

in that, i was saying: i was worrying about post limit at a certain point and was writing everything together as if it was one post, as in the editor it was all together... but it felt very silly since i was not being verbose enough to... actually hit the post limit at any point? so instead i decided to see if anyone would see, if i just threw out three things at once and poke me to see if i was editing my posts beforehand. it's the sort of little detail i think that people who are really looking for /something/ pick up, but if they don't, it is nothing more than something i can smile at

(i did that, a long time ago; people noticed, and the reaction was negative, as if i was worried/anxious about how i was presenting myself)

(...i was really bad at self-editing anyways so now, i just spew.)

[Roadkill]

Unvote, Vote Mc Esther

Too much Dwelee resistance to make it happen. We have 47 minutes.

Oh shit. I thought it was today. Well... I still think Dwelee isn't happening. This at least gives mc esther time to claim if anyone was thinking of hammering.

Unvote

Mc esther, I was trying to get you to vote dwelee. When you didn't answer and I thought deadline was less than an hour away, I gave up. When you included yourself as viable and seemed more willing to die than vote Dwelee, the last thing I would have thought was power role. And I'm still skeptical but common sense says you live today barring a counter claim.

Sleepless tried to rush the deadline and put esther at e-1 without saying

You think I lied about thinking deadline was tonight? That's pretty provable. Lying about that doesn't help scum.

Vote Dwelee

I don't think this goes through but I'm willing to try.

Honestly, to do anything other than Three and maybe Looker, someone's gonna have to bend a little.

I'm here to hammer pending claim before deadline. Still prefer Dwelee though.

mmm

with retrospect now this looks worse, for the first part

to vote dwlee of course is something that sleepless is committed to but there's still the little push to vote out mc esther because deadline that... wasn't happening because it was not deadline. and to say "there's no benefit to lying about this", well... it is perhaps the only way to remove yourself from bussing that would not be a conflict with the reads you have presented, if you are scum (i hate this elim, buuuuut i have to do it -- oh no, it was town, sorry, anyways back to this -- a free elim), with some hemming and hawing about dwlee not happening to boot as well, it is a departure from "kill mode"

and even then, sleepless... lingers, and does not throw the vote back down on dwlee with what time remains.

i know that it is only an hour between the two but... i feel if you are very, truly trying to kill someone, with all of your heart the vote returns, or at least... that is how i have felt before, when i have that strong of an opinion, and you are gifted more time, you vote again and without question, and you do not return it when... someone else asks if there is interest?

i guess, looking at day 1 i see more of the performance, if that makes sense? the places where the need to kill, the confidence based on those early tells, gives way to "well... not happening, can try", etc.

[Roadkill]

(...and this is a bit of meta i cannot prove right now due to my being unknown, but... were i aligned with dwlee i would have made the time to vote them, as i do not do half-measures when it comes to bussing. it is of no concern to arrive and vote someone, a minute or two of my time, but as town it's... games are more of an afterthought often when irl is happening, the stress is lessened by a larger team to work with)

[Roadkill]

I still hold to my Roadkill/Looker/Sleepless group, but there's a decent amount of self preservation there yea cause that's literally the only other wagon. I'd rather kill Looker than sleepless and voted that until very recently but there was no one else there

rule of threes in action

...and yet again i am spiteful about receiving no explanation as to why, but i suppose, it is because there is nothing that is real

(i spoke of anonymity -- i nearly spoiled it just now, and i want to cry)

[joqiza]

Mm. On that topic, Roadkill, I respect your privacy and all and I'm not asking you to out your main but you should probs be aware that, in the absence of other info, I'm going with the working assumption that you're a strong/experienced scum player.

I'll be honest I can't hold the mistaken deadline thing against SA because I made the exact same mistake lol. Idk why I thought it just ended a day earlier for some reason until Umlaut mentioned it.

I do think SA's progression from Dwlee onto mc esther warrants clarification so @Sleepless when you see this,

What made you switch from Dwlee to mc esther, specifically?

If you could just sort of walk me through, your thought processes as best you remember, that's all I'm looking for. Thanks.

[joqiza]

last mafia bussing dwlee this game:



last villager, the dead thread, and catboi watching me shitpost as clear instead of solve the game:

[Sleepless Assassin]

Mm. On that topic, Roadkill, I respect your privacy and all and I'm not asking you to out your main but you should probs be aware that, in the absence of other info, I'm going with the working assumption that you're a strong/experienced scum player.

I'll be honest I can't hold the mistaken deadline thing against SA because I made the exact same mistake lol. Idk why I thought it just ended a day earlier for some reason until Umlaut mentioned it.

I do think SA's progression from Dwlee onto mc esther warrants clarification so @Sleepless when you see this,

What made you switch from Dwlee to mc esther, specifically?

If you could just sort of walk me through, your thought processes as best you remember, that's all I'm looking for. Thanks.

It was as simple as perceived deadline crunch time. Dwlee didn't feel viable because people just weren't voting there and I figured mc esther would actually go through. I had mc esther and three as good compromises anyway and if you're going to compromise, deadline is the time to do it. See post 234 for reference. I waited until what I believed was the last possible moment while I held out hope people would vote Dwlee. If you go back and read I communicated my thoughts pretty well. It's clear what I wanted and what I was willing to do to compromise. And I did reach out and try to get people to vote Dwlee so it's not like it's empty suspicion or anything.

[joqiza]

Were you thinking mc esther/Dwlee seemed a viable team at the time, based on your 208? Or did you think esther was the only one that would go through? I think your progression is mostly clear but the specific decision to go esther rather than Three is what I'm interested in.

[Sleepless Assassin]

I thought mc esther was individually scummier than three. I don't play Day 1 based on associatives. It just myddies your reads if you are wrong about someone. Day 1 is just about your highest chance to hit scum. I remember Three having some posts where I could.follow his logic so I was still on the fence with him. Thinking back, I really didn't think Dwlee and mc esther were scum together because one of the things that stood out about Dwlee was his mc esther vote, so if mc esther had been scum, I'd have re-evaluated Dwlee.

[joqiza]

Umm, so, y'all, I think I'm... pretty decently leaning rn to Sleepless being the last villager, and Roadkill being the last mafia (sorry Roadkill).

@Roadkill I want you to know I've read all your posts, and I'll try to respond to everything later today and... like explain my thoughts more. I have a 21 minute vocaroo of me rambling that I could post in the way of explanation in post-game, but I'll try to get it... written up in a transcription this evening so you have a chance to respond or defend yourself or such... just having an issue with my mental energy rn that's making it hard for some reason.

The basic summary is like... after having gone through the game a couple times... I feel like... I have to note the fact that your "pounce" on Dwlee which I was previously TR'ing follows mc esther being outed as cop, whereas SA is putting Dwlee in a decent amount of danger, imo... prior to that event happening... and just noting how risky that play by Sleepless would be for scum, and for a Sleepless/Dwlee team in particular... because.... idk I go into this more in my vocaroo and I'll try to elaborate but, it you're gonna hellbuss I feel like you have to be confident in your ability to win F3 and I don't know that Sleepless would self-eval as that kind of player due to his lower thread presence throughout the game? Idk if I'm explaining it well.

Whichever one of you is the villager has played a really great game (as has the wolf too obv) so, if I do end up hammering wrong the loss is on me.

Anyway just wanted to get that out there, having a lot of problems writing up my thoughts for some reason but I have been reading and will try to get stuff down on paper.

[joqiza]

Um, so for Roadkill...

I feel like, a lot of your argument about why Sleepless is scum is predicated on things that Dwlee did and said? And while I... do think that when I read Dwlee's posts, and certain things... like Dwlee putting SA in his PoE but not their immediate kill list d1, or... Dwlee not responding to you at all D2, those things do make me think that the team could be Dwlee/Sleepless instead of Dwlee/Roadkill, so I could see myself being wrong about this and if I am I'm sorry.

The thing is though, I think it might be a mistake for me to think that, just because Dwlee couldn't post well, that it translates to them not being able to set up and manipulate associatives well? I think there are many wolves (myself included... though I'm not sure I'm good at anything as wolf) that are able to... not post myself out of the PoE, but still able to set up my partners, if that makes sense?

Essentially, when I read Dwlee's posts, I get the sense that they're posting very carefully. I get the sense that I'm across a table playing wine swaps with them. And, while I can still try to beat them at that game... It makes me want to focus on other things, if that makes sense. (Does it make any sense?)

And the thing I end up focusing on when I rr this game is like, the degree of risk that an SA/Dwlee team would have incurred by enacting their strategy, and the good fortune they'd have to have encountered by mc esther getting run up d1. And simultaneously, I can sort of see a narrative where, after Esther is outed, you and Dwlee hatch a plan to get you across the finish line, knowing that you'll now have the ability to take out the cop on n1.

[Roadkill]

i,

opened this thread read it and started crying because of how defeated i felt for not, explaining well enough to be seen

i guess will try later tonight

i don’t know how else to explain right now how it feels to not be believed but i just, dont know

[catboi]

Vote Count 4.05

Sleepless Assassin (1):

Roadkill

Roadkill (1):

Sleepless Assassin

Not Voting (1):

joqiza

With 3 alive, it's 2 to eliminate.

The post cap will reset in

(expired on 2022-02-22 01:00:00)

Deadline for Day 4 is February 23 at 12:00 AM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-02-23 01:00:00)

Reserve Posts Used

joqiza (1)

[joqiza]

It's not your fault if you clear me and then I can't find you that would literally just be me not being good enough

[Sleepless Assassin]

Another thing to consider, knowing Dwlee was bussed. If it was me/Dwlee, we were both under such suspicion that as a team we'd have to have a big endgame strategy and neither they or I really looked like scum with a big plan to make it to the end. Roadkill had enough town cred that he could afford to lose Dwlee and make it to the end of the game on his own. Bussing makes more sense as a winning strategy for Roadkill/Dwlee than it does for me/dwlee. And you know bussing occurred because Roadkill and I both pushed Dwlee. I'd have needed Dwlee alive as long as possible to feel like I could win this if I was scum.

[joqiza]

yeah that's sorta what i meant by 610. um. i mean you both being under suspicion isn't what makes me think it's not SvS it's actually sorta like, Dwlee was sorta "unnecessarily" bussed in a fashion by either one of you, either by you Sleepless on d1 or by Roadkill on d2, so... makes you think about, who would have self-eval'd as having good chances in F3, and whereas, scum!Roadkill is at least basically TR by everyone, scum!Sleepless has a pretty tricky path to walk especially if they don't find the PR early

[joqiza]

damn 612 hits me in the feels though i don't wanna make someone cry just by being bad at mafia lol

roadkill bro if ur being legit you don't need to feel bad about me sucking like it's not on you, it just isn't lol. would just be sleepless playing a good game and me making the wrong read

[joqiza]

Joqiza think about the fact that Day 2 was Dwlee vs me. Do you really think this town was absolutely perfect that day and scum just let it happen and your decision on who to hammer didn't matter because you were hitting scum either way? You challenged Andante earlier this game to find a time town hammered just for fun at the start of a game. I'm challenging you, find a time town had to choose who to hammer and both options were scum. It's rare. I can't even recall a time and I've played a ton of mafia.

Btw, it's not really the most important point for me rn but here are two recent examples of games I've been in with SvS wagons. I'm not sure if it's exactly like what you asked bc in the 1st it looked like the third scum made the hammer and in the second it was decided by plurality but if we're talking about general SvS wagons it's not super uncommon in my own experience. There's a third example from a game I remember on EM but I can't link it obv due to site going down and I don't remember the exact threadstate it occured under either.

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost5640261
https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... ost5701485

I agree I've never been in like a... very particular circumstance where there's a long wait while town decides between SvS wagons and then hammers one, but that seems more like cuz it'd be the confluence of individually rare circumstances than some kind of joint impossibility.

[Roadkill]

it

sorry, it just feels like ... lip service sort of consolation prize "you played well (but not well enough to convince)" sort of thing it's... on me entirely how i see it

and i know this message isn't .. . the most productive to make emotions don't do, a lot but it's sort of just

venting.

because i tried and then i found the answer and then was picking back because it was retrospect and it's just ...

kind of don't have energy to fight? just feelings i found the right answer that counts for ... something maybe

(or maybe i'll feel like it will some time after the fact i guess)

(i don't know why im making this post because it doesn't change your mind and we both feel bad from it so i'm sorry but i'm here i said i'd be here tonight but i don't know how else to be here)

[joqiza]

well im still reading / hoping for divine inspiration

[joqiza]

Bro Roadkill idk if I'm ever getting there man like legit d1 SA was only interested in voting Dwlee and when the choice between Three/Esther came up as compromise wagons he was like "yeah Three agrees with me that Dwlee needs to die so not interested" instead the only compromise he was really willing to entertain was the person who wrote 194.

I won't vote Looker. I want Dwelee and can compromise on Mc Esther. I'm not against voting Three but would rather Dwelee or Mc Esther.

I can't wrap my head around WHY, like yes granted if he endgames me then it worked I guess but goddamn.

[joqiza]

I'm... very frayed right now. (Nothing related to this game). My main thought right now is that mc esther's posting on the past couple pages feels ridiculously towny. I don't know what I'm seeing differently from other people, but her consideration of Three feels like bleeding my obvious town regardless of what Three is. I'm shielding this slot and prepared to pay the price if I'm wrong.

My townreads are Umlaut, Roadkill, and MC E. Need to head back to work but will try to phonepost while my boss isn't looking.

Want to vote Dwelee? I'll give you cookies or something.

VOTE: Dwlee99

I just find their contributions really lacking, impressively so over a 10-day timespan. However, I'll be honest that no one reads partnered with them to me at all.

I actually agree with you that the top wagons are people who don't make sense as scum with Dwelee. I can't see Dwelee/Three at all. I don't believe in Dwelee/mc esther all that much. I kind of lean towards if Dwelee is scum, it's with Andante or Roadkill who I don't have as being scum individually. But this feels like a Day 2 discussion to me.

myself, andante, umlaut, and looker have all said that dwlee isnt happening. im guessing dwlee wont self-vote. this wagon isnt happening.

looker seems to reject every viable wagon though, which, um. i dont think i have such a strong preference on three over looker any more.

myself, three, and looker all still appear to be viable.

You and Dwelee are the lead wagons. Are you town reading Dwelee so strongly that you'd prefer to either die or have no elimination go through?

Are there any cases other than thinly veiled survivalism

Are there any cases other than thinly veiled survivalism

Mainly their awkwardness in their first few posts when their role PM would have been freshest in their mind. It sounds like they have a history if struggling as scum, and they haven't produced a whole lot here. And they just feels so similar to the last game I played with them where they were scum. And just a complete lack of anything town.

Preview edit: Yeah I'd encourage you to read the very beginning. That's where my scum read came from.

I mean this is all prior to mc esther being outed as cop. I snipped a couple posts but mostly these happen in succession, like the dude is trying to annihilate Dwlee.

[joqiza]

I mean what I townread is the frankness with which he expresses his scumread on Dwlee. Like his read doesn't feel dressed up at all, he's not trying to look towny before the fact or anything he's just single-minded trying to get Dwlee chopped. And in a different universe we absolutely chop Dwlee d1, reading over the game again it's still surprising to me that Umlaut, Andante, and Esther all defended Dwlee from the rope when Dwlee wasn't really towny. I don't see how scum!Sleepless could have reasonably predicted Dwlee would survive day 1 during all the different moments he hardpushed him prior to esther being outed, rather I think scum!Sleepless would have had to be ready and willing to play this game solo with an unknown PR in the mix.

[joqiza]

I think the entire, like, duality of this game might be captured by 292 followed by 293. Both votes on the flipped wolf, both right next to each other, both at the start of D2, and one is this whole ass post and process by Roadkill and the other is 7 words and a vote by SA. One is scum, one is town.