In post 24, Ircher wrote:Rule 6 under Miscellaneous (about day talk) should go under game-specific information. Also, your ruleset is very long. You may want to consider having a summary of the essential points somewhere as people don't tend to read long rulesets. Most experienced players skim or skip everything that isn't a setup-specific rule. Another option would be bolding your more unusual or important rules.
You are right, 6. from Miscellaneous should go there.
As for the ruleset being too long, I say
ignorantia juris non excusat
. I can agree that they're longer than most rulesets I've seen, but I don't see any room for slimming them down. I could try to rephrase what has already been said in a shorter way and bold the most important rules.
I can change the order and put "Game-specific information" above "General rules" too.
In post 24, Ircher wrote:This is minor, but in the town's win condition, it should read "You win when there
are
no more mafia..."
Noted.
In post 24, Ircher wrote:For the tracker pm, the role name should read as "Town N1 N2 N3 Tracker". The role should flip as such as well. I would delete "only" from the sentence that mentions the night phases in the tracker pm.
Noted.
In post 24, Ircher wrote:I think you are a bit confused about how a neighborizer works. I'm a bit short on time rn, so I'll clarify later. Alternatively, you can look at the wiki page for neighborizer.
I'll wait for you to clarify what you mean.
In post 24, Ircher wrote:Technically speaking, mafia have to have a member alive to win in normals. (Your current win condition doesn't reflect this.) This is less of a concern though in a mini where the only time that may not be the case is with a vig, but it's good to not inadvertently give away info about the setup.
It is mechanically impossible for there to be no players left in the game, but if you think that's important to not give that out then I'll make sure to include this.
In post 24, Ircher wrote:In the mailman role pm: "The player will also be allowed to quote the contents of the message directly into the game thread." --> Please delete this. This is too risky for game integrity purposes. You can probably allow copy-paste but not quoting.
Okay, a neighborizer in a normal game has the following characteristics:
1) They start with no others in their neighborhood.
2) They can add a player to their neighborhood each night. Players added after the first are added to the same neighborhood not a different one.
3) The neighborizer action doesn't fail if the player is killed.
Your description is quite a bit different. If you want a neighborizer to only recruit one player, you would have to make it one shot. Unfortunately, there is not a way in normal games to refund shots if their action fails. If you want the target player to specifically know who neighborized them, that's not exactly normal either, but you can come pretty close by making the neighborizer loud. (They would receive a separate message that X targeted them last night in addition to the standard "You have been invited to a neighborhood" message. If you go that route, make sure the two messages are sent separately and not as a combined message.)
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In post 28, Ircher wrote:Okay, a neighborizer in a normal game has the following characteristics:
1) They start with no others in their neighborhood.
2) They can add a player to their neighborhood each night. Players added after the first are added to the same neighborhood not a different one.
3) The neighborizer action doesn't fail if the player is killed.
Your description is quite a bit different. If you want a neighborizer to only recruit one player, you would have to make it one shot. Unfortunately, there is not a way in normal games to refund shots if their action fails. If you want the target player to specifically know who neighborized them, that's not exactly normal either, but you can come pretty close by making the neighborizer loud. (They would receive a separate message that X targeted them last night in addition to the standard "You have been invited to a neighborhood" message. If you go that route, make sure the two messages are sent separately and not as a combined message.)
I understand. Would a one-shot Neighborizer
without
refunds be okay then?
And it kinda makes no sense to not let know the neighborized know who targeted them. I mean, they will get a PT link and by clicking on it, they will know who's in there. If there's just two players in the Neighbourhood, then it's kinda obvious to both parties whom is the Neighborizer and whom is the neighborized.
In post 28, Ircher wrote:Okay, a neighborizer in a normal game has the following characteristics:
1) They start with no others in their neighborhood.
2) They can add a player to their neighborhood each night. Players added after the first are added to the same neighborhood not a different one.
3) The neighborizer action doesn't fail if the player is killed.
Your description is quite a bit different. If you want a neighborizer to only recruit one player, you would have to make it one shot. Unfortunately, there is not a way in normal games to refund shots if their action fails. If you want the target player to specifically know who neighborized them, that's not exactly normal either, but you can come pretty close by making the neighborizer loud. (They would receive a separate message that X targeted them last night in addition to the standard "You have been invited to a neighborhood" message. If you go that route, make sure the two messages are sent separately and not as a combined message.)
I understand. Would a one-shot Neighborizer
without
refunds be okay then?
And it kinda makes no sense to not let know the neighborized know who targeted them. I mean, they will get a PT link and by clicking on it, they will know who's in there. If there's just two players in the Neighbourhood, then it's kinda obvious to both parties whom is the Neighborizer and whom is the neighborized.
1x Neighborizer is fine for balance imo. It already exists as a bit of an extra role to bolster the town's strength without making them overpowered, so gating it does not impact its strengths.
Can you do another, updated, post of:
-Roles
-Results
-Rules
- updated role names of Tracker and Neighborizer;
- updated the Mafia Mailman role;
- updated the Town Tracker role (by removing "only" per Ircher's suggestion);
- updated the Town Neighborizer (one-shot) role;
- updated mafia winning condition;
- made a few changes to the rules (not the content, but deleted a few points and merged them with others), bolded the most important ones;
- changed the order - "Game-specific information" went above "General rules";
- changed 2. of "Private Threads" accordingly to 30.
The neighborizer should not be directly informed if their action fails (though they can certainly infer as much), but everything else looks fine to me.
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In post 38, Ircher wrote:The neighborizer should not be directly informed if their action fails (though they can certainly infer as much), but everything else looks fine to me.
Why?
I will remove it, but I’d like you to elaborate on why that is.
It's the way things are on this site. Roles generally aren't informed their action failed unless they specifically get a result of some sort. Like for the neighborizer, sure, they'll know something is up when the person they targeted isn't in the neighborhood, but it's up to them to make that deduction. You risk accidentally giving away information you shouldn't. (To be clear here, I'm not saying this is usually the case or necessarily the case here, but it can happen.)
Also, for normal games, it is important that things like action resolution is standardized. This ensures a consistent set of expectations from players. As already mentioned, the current standard is that neighborizers don't get notified if their action fails. Deviating from the established standards can influence the way players perceive the setup and the deductions they make about it.
Links: User Page | GTKAS
Do you have questions, ideas, or feedback for the Scummies? Please pm me!
In post 40, Ircher wrote:It's the way things are on this site. Roles generally aren't informed their action failed unless they specifically get a result of some sort. Like for the neighborizer, sure, they'll know something is up when the person they targeted isn't in the neighborhood, but it's up to them to make that deduction. You risk accidentally giving away information you shouldn't. (To be clear here, I'm not saying this is usually the case or necessarily the case here, but it can happen.)
Also, for normal games, it is important that things like action resolution is standardized. This ensures a consistent set of expectations from players. As already mentioned, the current standard is that neighborizers don't get notified if their action fails. Deviating from the established standards can influence the way players perceive the setup and the deductions they make about it.
Alright, thanks. Although I privately would rather give out that information as I don't think there's much harm done and, as a player, would appreciate the clarity, I can accept that this is a Normal and should bend more towards what is generally expected. Hopefully, I'll be allowed more freedom in the Mini Theme queue in the future.
Town Neighborizer (one-shot) will not receive any information upon being Roleblocked.
Just letting you know that 2. in "Voting and activity" will be amended to make sure it does not come in conflict with the site rules.
Here is how it looks like now:
Discussing replacements is allowed unless it is explicitly stated by me that it’s not.
Here is the new version:
Discussing replacements is allowed only after they happen. It is not allowed to discuss any possible future replacements, to threaten to replace or ask another player to replace out.
Upon deeper consideration, I will remove the rules on "bah!" posts. Given that this is my prerogative as mod, I have decided against allowing these after all.
That means that 8a. from "General rules" will be removed.
Hey, so I am reading the game, and the players keep mentioning that they can't get the mod to clarify the difference between a mailman message and a friendly neighbor message.
But, per NRG standards, the two are in fact completely different.
In post 48, mastina wrote:Hey, so I am reading the game, and the players keep mentioning that they can't get the mod to clarify the difference between a mailman message and a friendly neighbor message.
But, per NRG standards, the two are in fact completely different.
As in, they should know and be informed that the fn is unambiguously a fn, not a messenger, and vice versa, too.
If they are confused, and ask for clarity, it should be given.