Grand Idea Greatest Hits [PAGES 5-7/400]

This forum is for discussion related to the game.
User avatar
TemporalLich
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
User avatar
User avatar
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
Grand Scheme
Posts: 5721
Joined: January 30, 2019
Location: A Lost Timeline

Post Post #75 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:17 am

Post by TemporalLich »

thoughts:

Mega Gladiator is too much influence on game, too stronge
Stuntman is unfun
Mod Desc Role Shuffler was ruined by giving it Survivor wincon, survivor is a terrible alignment with no player agency and it is unfun to play as

votes:

VOTE: Town Mason
VOTE: Town Dolphin
VOTE: Town Megaman
VOTE: Mafia Tomato
VOTE: Town NK-Immune Miller Vigilante
(Role Shuffler if it isn't a fucking Survivor)
time will end
User avatar
TemporalLich
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
User avatar
User avatar
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
Grand Scheme
Posts: 5721
Joined: January 30, 2019
Location: A Lost Timeline

Post Post #76 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:19 am

Post by TemporalLich »

let me tell you how bad Survivor is - I witnessed one self-hammer on Day fucking ONE

that should be enough to veto Survivors with a Clause
time will end
User avatar
Farren
Farren
He/Him
Best Overall Mish Mash Player
User avatar
User avatar
Farren
He/Him
Best Overall Mish Mash Player
Best Overall Mish Mash Player
Posts: 1434
Joined: September 24, 2018
Pronoun: He/Him
Location: Washington State, USA.

Post Post #77 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:23 am

Post by Farren »

I wouldn't outright veto the Survivor alignment - just vote depending on if its abilities make up for the difficult wincon.
Mish-Mash Janitor

Please PM me for any Mish-Mash maintenance needs!
User avatar
TemporalLich
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
User avatar
User avatar
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
Grand Scheme
Posts: 5721
Joined: January 30, 2019
Location: A Lost Timeline

Post Post #78 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:24 am

Post by TemporalLich »

let me put it to you like this - the self-hammering Survivor was a Mysterious Eidolon
time will end
User avatar
MegAzumarill
MegAzumarill
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
MegAzumarill
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5470
Joined: July 14, 2021
Pronoun: She/Her

Post Post #79 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:05 am

Post by MegAzumarill »

VOTE: Dolphin
Jack of All Trades
Imprefection is the spice of life.
User avatar
TemporalLich
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
User avatar
User avatar
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
Grand Scheme
Posts: 5721
Joined: January 30, 2019
Location: A Lost Timeline

Post Post #80 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:16 am

Post by TemporalLich »

Survivor might be balanced with an overpowered (but not veto-level broken) role or if it were retconned to being a ToS-style Survivor (has 4-shot Activated Bulletproof as a factional ability).

But the lack of player agency unlike with Jester and Unjester is bad.
time will end
User avatar
MegAzumarill
MegAzumarill
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
MegAzumarill
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5470
Joined: July 14, 2021
Pronoun: She/Her

Post Post #81 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:19 am

Post by MegAzumarill »

As I moved here from TOS I actually enjoy Survivor because I just use it as an excuse to troll :)

It can be fun but it's mechanically really bad
Imprefection is the spice of life.
User avatar
TemporalLich
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
User avatar
User avatar
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
Grand Scheme
Posts: 5721
Joined: January 30, 2019
Location: A Lost Timeline

Post Post #82 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:20 am

Post by TemporalLich »

In post 81, MegAzumarill wrote:As I moved here from TOS I actually enjoy Survivor because I just use it as an excuse to troll :)

It can be fun but it's mechanically really bad
You'd enjoy playing Jester.
time will end
User avatar
TemporalLich
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
User avatar
User avatar
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
Grand Scheme
Posts: 5721
Joined: January 30, 2019
Location: A Lost Timeline

Post Post #83 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:26 am

Post by TemporalLich »

VOTE: Town Jack-of-all-Trades

also adding this to my vote
time will end
User avatar
MegAzumarill
MegAzumarill
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
MegAzumarill
She/Her
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 5470
Joined: July 14, 2021
Pronoun: She/Her

Post Post #84 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 12:06 pm

Post by MegAzumarill »

In post 82, TemporalLich wrote:
In post 81, MegAzumarill wrote:As I moved here from TOS I actually enjoy Survivor because I just use it as an excuse to troll :)

It can be fun but it's mechanically really bad
You'd enjoy playing Jester.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=88497

Have already
And I did enjoy it
Imprefection is the spice of life.
User avatar
Jake The Wolfie
Jake The Wolfie
he/they
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Jake The Wolfie
he/they
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3577
Joined: July 13, 2019
Pronoun: he/they
Location: Floorda

Post Post #85 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 12:33 pm

Post by Jake The Wolfie »

In post 70, MegAzumarill wrote:
In post 64, Jake The Wolfie wrote:I'd suggest preserving the original wincon if it's stated, otherwise to not include any alignment (making a note that it's up to mod discretion)
Grand Idea rules state that if no alignment is stated it is assumed to be town, iirc
If no alignment is stated and it is a modless game, otherwise the alignment is up to mod discretion.
I'm assuming Cook isn't going to be hosting a modless game anytime soon.
User avatar
Jingle
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
User avatar
User avatar
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
For Whom the Bell Trolls
Posts: 15111
Joined: July 17, 2013
Location: Texas

Post Post #86 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 4:38 pm

Post by Jingle »

In post 75, TemporalLich wrote:Mega Gladiator is too much influence on game, too stronge
Not really? It's actually pretty bad in most circumstances, because 99% of the time the choice is going to be to lim the mega gladiator, not every other player. It has utility in cases where there are a bunch of 3p who don't mind dying, a bunch of mafia vote shenanigans roles, or some doubt as to whether multiple other players can survive an elim.

Still not really a strong contender though.

As for Stuntman being unfun, you've clearly never been in a game where the mafia didn't think they could trust each other. Just the possibility of it existing makes great in game interactions happen and the secondary wincon is very unlikely to actually proc. In a game that already has absolutely no chance of balance it's perfectly reasonable.

Survivor self hammering is literally against site rules, so... Vaguely agree that survivor is probably not a desired faction in a GIdea game, particularly because survivor is very hard to make into a reasonable role.

VOTE: Stuntman
JOAT
Town NK-Immune Miller Vigilante


Please add a link to GIdea thread in OP.
This is a Parachute.
User avatar
Cook
Cook
She
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Cook
She
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 2931
Joined: December 5, 2020
Pronoun: She
Location: Stapling Internet Together [89.9%]
Contact:

Post Post #87 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:14 pm

Post by Cook »

what if the role shuffler stole alignment as well, so that it didn't keep the survivor wincon?
Your friendly neighborhood chef and baker. LONG LIVE THE CHEFHAT REBELLION!
Cults With Guns //
"ya true if you don't play mafia you are probably winning" – Alisae

Inventor of 3d20 //
Successful Rebellion Leader//
User avatar
TemporalLich
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
User avatar
User avatar
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
Grand Scheme
Posts: 5721
Joined: January 30, 2019
Location: A Lost Timeline

Post Post #88 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:38 pm

Post by TemporalLich »

If Stuntman double-won if their faction wins without any Town eliminations it would be worthy of voting.

As written, Stuntman is a negative utility role without any benefits as Stuntman has no incentive to not eliminate Town (as a win is a win). Stuntman is the worst form of negative utility and is
bastard
for imposing a hidden wincon (this applies even for double-win Stuntman, which is a better designed version that actually sows doubt in a scumteam and enables a 4D chess strategy to double win).

's Role Shuffler is in my interpretation a mod discretion-aligned role that swaps roles (but not alignment, as the post says "role") with a target, meaning the role shuffler takes the target's role and the target becomes a role shuffler.

E.g. Player A (Town Role Shuffler) targeting Player B (Mafia Tomato) means Player A will become a Town Tomato and Player B will become a Mafia Role Shuffler.

Survivor Role Card Shuffler is more fun for whoever rands it but is a lot more chaotic as it causes alignment changes and the role basically becomes a hot potato as Survivor is a hard alignment. If it were an alignment changer, it would have all the implications of other alignment changers like Cult Leaders, such as what if groupscum got targeted or if the Role Card Shuffler or their target dies that Night. I still wouldn't vote for a role card shuffler, and I'd be unwilling to vote it with a balanced alignment.
time will end
User avatar
Jake The Wolfie
Jake The Wolfie
he/they
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Jake The Wolfie
he/they
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3577
Joined: July 13, 2019
Pronoun: he/they
Location: Floorda

Post Post #89 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:44 pm

Post by Jake The Wolfie »

In post 88, TemporalLich wrote:Survivor Role Card Shuffler is more fun for whoever rands it but is a lot more chaotic as it causes alignment changes and the role basically becomes a hot potato as Survivor is a hard alignment. If it were an alignment changer, it would have all the implications of other alignment changers like Cult Leaders, such as what if groupscum got targeted or if the Role Card Shuffler or their target dies that Night. I still wouldn't vote for a role card shuffler, and I'd be unwilling to vote it with a balanced alignment.
(Also the gate of deconversion is opened)
User avatar
TemporalLich
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
User avatar
User avatar
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
Grand Scheme
Posts: 5721
Joined: January 30, 2019
Location: A Lost Timeline

Post Post #90 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:45 pm

Post by TemporalLich »

cult is groupscum in GIM iirc
time will end
User avatar
Jake The Wolfie
Jake The Wolfie
he/they
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Jake The Wolfie
he/they
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3577
Joined: July 13, 2019
Pronoun: he/they
Location: Floorda

Post Post #91 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:49 pm

Post by Jake The Wolfie »

I meant like, a groupscum player who has partners is converted into either town or into another groupscum.
User avatar
TemporalLich
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
User avatar
User avatar
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
Grand Scheme
Posts: 5721
Joined: January 30, 2019
Location: A Lost Timeline

Post Post #92 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:51 pm

Post by TemporalLich »

In post 91, Jake The Wolfie wrote:I meant like, a groupscum player who has partners is converted into either town or into another groupscum.
that would be the "what if groupscum got targeted" scenario for Role Card Shuffler, as that means a groupscum becomes a Survivor.
time will end
User avatar
Jake The Wolfie
Jake The Wolfie
he/they
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Jake The Wolfie
he/they
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3577
Joined: July 13, 2019
Pronoun: he/they
Location: Floorda

Post Post #93 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:55 pm

Post by Jake The Wolfie »

YEah, but you have the ability to shuffle role cards with another player, such as a townie, which means that you've effectively de-converted yourself from being groupscum to being town.
User avatar
TemporalLich
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
User avatar
User avatar
TemporalLich
Grand Scheme
Grand Scheme
Posts: 5721
Joined: January 30, 2019
Location: A Lost Timeline

Post Post #94 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:57 pm

Post by TemporalLich »

In post 93, Jake The Wolfie wrote:YEah, but you have the ability to shuffle role cards with another player, such as a townie, which means that you've effectively de-converted yourself from being groupscum to being town.
that applies if you're groupscum somehow (like you were Culted), which is kinda broken actually
time will end
User avatar
Jake The Wolfie
Jake The Wolfie
he/they
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Jake The Wolfie
he/they
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3577
Joined: July 13, 2019
Pronoun: he/they
Location: Floorda

Post Post #95 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:58 pm

Post by Jake The Wolfie »

In post 93, Jake The Wolfie wrote:YEah, but you have the ability to shuffle role cards with another player, such as a townie, which means that you've effectively de-converted yourself from being groupscum to being town.
It may have taken 2 days, but you started out as scum and are now town. There's a reason why we don't have Scum to Town conversion. A town player who was converted from a groupscum player would have much incentive to spill who the scum are.
User avatar
Jake The Wolfie
Jake The Wolfie
he/they
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Jake The Wolfie
he/they
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 3577
Joined: July 13, 2019
Pronoun: he/they
Location: Floorda

Post Post #96 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:59 pm

Post by Jake The Wolfie »

In post 94, TemporalLich wrote:
In post 93, Jake The Wolfie wrote:YEah, but you have the ability to shuffle role cards with another player, such as a townie, which means that you've effectively de-converted yourself from being groupscum to being town.
that applies if you're groupscum somehow (like you were Culted), which is kinda broken actually
Not even cult. It could be a Uniball Mafia Groupscum setup and yet through this role you could be effectively deconverted from Mafia to Town, which leads to tomfuckery.
User avatar
Morning Tweet
Morning Tweet
She
Team Mafia Winner
Team Mafia Winner
User avatar
User avatar
Morning Tweet
She
Team Mafia Winner
Team Mafia Winner
Team Mafia Winner
Team Mafia Winner
Posts: 10586
Joined: September 5, 2016
Pronoun: She

Post Post #97 (ISO) » Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:22 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

VOTE: Catherine - This is a very interesting third party concept -- it can win early OR late, but it is nerfed middle game
VOTE: Conformer - I also like this one -- you get to choose a player to buddy as your alignment
VOTE: 2-x desperado - this is way more balanced than the megaman role i like it
User avatar
Jingle
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
User avatar
User avatar
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
For Whom the Bell Trolls
Posts: 15111
Joined: July 17, 2013
Location: Texas

Post Post #98 (ISO) » Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:16 am

Post by Jingle »

On second thought, while I don’t necessarily dislike the idea of stuntman it just seems so unlikely to matter that it probably wouldn’t effect games anyway, although I disagree with it being more bastard than GI inherently is. In practice, it just gives mafia the incentive to actually aim the lim at town instead of just away from mafia since they have no incentive not to claim.

I’d probably vote role shuffler if it were a savior for the person whose role they stole, but as a survivor it’s just kind of meh.

UNVOTE: stuntman
Last edited by Jingle on Thu Feb 10, 2022 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
This is a Parachute.
User avatar
Jingle
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
User avatar
User avatar
Jingle
For Whom the Bell Trolls
For Whom the Bell Trolls
Posts: 15111
Joined: July 17, 2013
Location: Texas

Post Post #99 (ISO) » Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:22 am

Post by Jingle »

Btw cook I was serious about asking for an op link to the gidea thread. Would make cross referencing way easier on mobile instead of having to go through lichs iso
This is a Parachute.
Post Reply

Return to “Mafia Discussion”