Open 844 – Cults With Guns [Endgame]

[the worst]

Okay. For kids.

IC CAN CLAIM. IF HE WAS NOT CCED, HE IS CONFTOWN. THERE'S NO NEED TO REVEAL.

AFTER WE KILL ALL ALPHA-CULTS (OR IF IDK), WE WILL ASK SAID CLAIMED IC TO REVEAL SELF VIA MOD. IF HE DOES REVEAL, GOOD HE IS NOT CONVERTED. IF HE DOESH'T, HE IS CONVERTED AND VANILISED.

Stop trying to prove stupidity.

lol. glorious.

[the worst]

Okay. For kids.

IC CAN CLAIM. IF HE WAS NOT CCED, HE IS CONFTOWN. THERE'S NO NEED TO REVEAL.

AFTER WE KILL ALL ALPHA-CULTS (OR IF IDK), WE WILL ASK SAID CLAIMED IC TO REVEAL SELF VIA MOD. IF HE DOES REVEAL, GOOD HE IS NOT CONVERTED. IF HE DOESH'T, HE IS CONVERTED AND VANILISED.

Stop trying to prove stupidity.

alright I gotta be frank, this feels like being in lylo on day 1

where you're hesitant because it's day 1 and there's no information and then you're also double hesitant because you know if you lim wrong the game is probably over

at the same time though I've realized the situation is probably not going to change, the cultists have no incentive to rock the boat and can probably mostly just lurk and win

VOTE: fua as they fit the category of, just coasting by, you know/? and it is indeed strange that they had zero comment on the fact that the vig claimed they would be shot tonight

ummmm but yeah most of the game is kind of just null to me

90% of the conversation thus far has been about setup and, sure, while town often do talk about setup, scum also commonly talk about setup just to seem townie

Lol, what? How am I coasting by compared to other people, especially on page 3?

Obviously I care if I actually get shot. Literally everyone does. But taking a callout of a target at the start of page 2 seriously and getting defensive over it is just as strange if not moreso. If it was past 26 posts into the game and closer to the end of the phase then I would take it more seriously.

Enchant is just objectively correct here.

Quoting to mull over whether wave/fua is s/s later

[Datisi]

hehehehehehehehhe

[Flea The Magician]

Exaggeration and wilful missed reinterpretation of what was said with a hint of undermining as a whole.

I get that you didn't like 235, sure. though to me 235 is an accurate interpretation of what's gone on here

but no, I'm talking about *before*. you said it's natural for him to not want to answer questions in the face of fallacies and exaggerations. but, when I was asking him questions, when did I ever make a fallacy or exaggeration? is "can you go into more specifics about your case" a fallacy or an exaggeration? I had not yet voted him nor accused him of anything at that point, I was just asking questions

ok.

You want this, you're getting this.

[the worst]

I get to decide when defending yourself is scummy

well, no. I said the exact opposite, actually. I believe that defending yourself is not scummy at all

YOU are the one currently arguing to ME that defending yourself is scummy, which is why you didn't want to do it. I'm just trying to understand the rationale of that stance

Good thing I already gave you my argument then.

Here’s a little tidbit to sum it up so you don’t have to go back and read what I’ve posted. Getting defensive over a claim at the top of page 2 with no vote or prior reasoning behind it is scummy in my eyes, and it always has been and always will be regardless of my alignment. Defending myself at E-3 in a game where people can and will quickhammer is not.

I have decided it is probably not

game is 4:1 atp right? if we nail the cultist today we win otherwise we're 2:2 so vig has to hope to hit right?

[the worst]

we kill fua because fua is cultist

did anyone cc vig?

[Datisi]

goddamnit duck

[the worst]

we kill fua because fua is cultist

sorry, my brain remembered the flip wrong. I did know Stephen was dead I'm just not a smart brain smarts.

[the worst]

wavemode and enchant locktown imo

enchant is absolutely town lol
I feel like if wave is cult then theyre p aware of cult's wincon here but I also think, with fua as your partner (they are absolutely a carry) its kind of counterintuitive to realise you're going to need to survive & win that early so like

idk I swing towards wave being town as well

agree with the datisi negative space stuff just beneath this post as well

[the worst]

Oh nvm I did remember the flips right

[the worst]

??????????

Why Andante dead

Lol.......

[the worst]

??????????

Why Andante dead

ahhh, stephen is pooky, makes sense why that slot was randomly tunnelling me from the start of the game

do i have to bring up how every single time pooky did that, i was town, or...

datisi........

[Datisi]

what

he absolutely did tunnel town!me like at least three times

[the worst]

@dats can you give me like 2-3 quotes from wave/fua which struck you as fake? if you want after I'll show you what struck me as unlikely to be partnery

[the worst]

just like, talk me thru what you're seeing a little

[the worst]

in fact, before the mod outed them, the only other players who interacted with fua at all were enchant and flea and stephen. and we can already assume stephen is town (or else, he will be shot by the real vig, so assuming he's town is safe for us to do)

this is like, on my mind
I'm not sure if there's all that much merit in the real vig outing if Stephen is scum

I'd rather take a 50%/50% on hitting group scum today for the win (associative reads etc. help) than have a to deal with recruited soloscum tomorrow

[Datisi]

excuse the messy phoneposting as it's 2am and i am about to pass out

as they fit the category of, just coasting by, you know/? and it is indeed strange that they had zero comment on the fact that the vig claimed they would be shot tonight

ummmm but yeah most of the game is kind of just null to me

this felt like, being extremely self conscious and trying to present a read as something Deep and Nuanced, despite it being only page 3 or wtv, like way over the top explain-y

and the accusation is really easy to walk back from if needed, since "oh they're costing but also like everyone is null" is extremely easy to backtrack

[Datisi]

sure but, not even asking him why? not addressing it at all? why is the possibility of looking defensive more worrisome to you than the possibility of a townie getting shot and us basically automatically losing?

and this is like realizing that they don't actually have good ground for what they're asking/accusing fua for being scum, and it lowkey feels like they're guiding fua towards the right answer as opposed leaving the questions more open ended in the hopes of getting them to trip up

[Datisi]

and also this is moreso post hoc reasoning but tming his own partner because he saw a townie being right and thought it's a super great point while i think most people wouldn't bat an eye, i certainly didn't

but not understanding exactly why it's a great point hence awkward questions

[Datisi]

okay, let's say for the sake of argument that questioning stephen is a bad move

why are you fine with questioning me? shouldn't you also be worried that this will be seen as defensiveness?

how does this post help him read fua? what's the point of this, trying to get them to admit they're being inconsistent? also like, i think it's pretty clear he and stephen had different approaches to fua so the fact that he's still poking at that point feels like poking for poking's sake

[Datisi]

okay so help me understand the why me fry me principle

is 2 votes the limit? why me fry me at 0 votes, why me fry me at 1 vote, but at 2 votes we gotta start arguing our case. is that the rationale?

yeah but you're not, you're at 2 votes

so what I'm asking is, does "why me = fry me" only apply when you are at 0 votes? then, once you have a certain amount of votes it no longer applies and you start defending yourself? is that how it works?

and if so, how many votes does it take for you to abandon the principle? 1? 2?

ans this is banter about absolute nonsense - again, how dows this sort fua? where in this post is wave showing that he's gaining insight on fua's alignment?

[Flea The Magician]

I get to decide when defending yourself is scummy

well, no. I said the exact opposite, actually. I believe that defending yourself is not scummy at all

YOU are the one currently arguing to ME that defending yourself is scummy, which is why you didn't want to do it. I'm just trying to understand the rationale of that stance

Good thing I already gave you my argument then.

Here’s a little tidbit to sum it up so you don’t have to go back and read what I’ve posted. Getting defensive over a claim at the top of page 2 with no vote or prior reasoning behind it is scummy in my eyes, and it always has been and always will be regardless of my alignment. Defending myself at E-3 in a game where people can and will quickhammer is not.

I have decided it is probably not

game is 4:1 atp right? if we nail the cultist today we win otherwise we're 2:2 so vig has to hope to hit right?

Let me know what you're thinking from [post]54[/post onwards would you?
rereading it that line goes freaking everywhere

[Flea The Magician]

wasn't there shorthand for the [post] tags?

[Datisi]

YOU are the one currently arguing to ME that defending yourself is scummy, which is why you didn't want to do it. I'm just trying to understand the rationale of that stance

and the more of this sorta thing. like my problem with this convo is thta it seems to be based entirely on wave trying to figure out some of fua's principles and core ideas of playing (when to defend yourself, is that scummy, how many votes is pressure etc) which like, are fine, but also they're not exactly conversing about alignments, they're conversing about game theory. now, not saying the two cannot be intersected, they absolutely can, but he seems to be doing it in a way that was purely game theory no actually alignment-related thoughts on them... doesn't help there was no follow up until fua got shot

[Datisi]

my head hurts, going to bed, will probably be here some 8 hours before deadline, but considering the two options rn are either me or wave, don't think i'll have to be moving my vote

gn, do what you will