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Post Post #575 (ISO) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:16 am

Post by Meuh »

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Good afternoon! Let’s solve this game :D
This is my first time repping in so I’m hyped
I read through the game and wrote this as I went through. All done before night ended so keep that in mind

Before catching up I read some of the last page, and looked at the death thing with roles on the opening post before reading through the game so I’m looking at this already knowing the dead people’s roles
From what I read of last page I think RR is conftown from a desperado shot


Spoiler:
Post : The last 2 sentences of this post are terrible, wow

Also what’s the point for a mafia member to claim that their role will be resolved by N2? Especially that early, seems like a tricky play and not worthwhile
Koopa’s points are mostly correct though communicated in a displeasing way

Post :
Readslist -
Radical Rat, Not Known15
The Bulge, Gamma Emerald, Save the Dragons,
Not_Mafia (I have no experience with this person so idk about the self vote; they haven't done any further weighing in)
, koopashell, Kcdaspot (just currently not seeing much reads going on/productive talk)

This is minor partner equity with Bulge, Gamma, STD and N_M

The way ShadowGirl echoes RR does not seem partnerlike
The way she questions Gamma also does not seem partnerlike

Post : I feel like a partner interaction would be more elaborate on Gamma’s end here? To establish real distancing. Shadowgirl takes the question more seriously than Gamma does and that gap in seriousness I think isn’t too likely to come from scummates

Post : :lol:

Post /: what is this?
“I have a high win rate so I’m right” god I thought people played mafia to actually try to solve the game collaboratively and have fun, not to flex on everyone else how they have a higher win%?
Being dismissive is almost always anti-town but pretentious players loooove to do it, regardless of alignment
This isn’t actually really relevant, Koopa’s gameplay just irks me.

Post : Minus associatives between SG and NM I think? The added comment on not seeing anything town indicative kinda looks less partnerey, but considering the way NM plays that’s also a stance SG could take when partnered with NM
SG isn’t mentioning Bulge much… (tbf not many people are in general)

Gamma prob just town

Post : Dunno if I like this one

Post : SG/NM still doesn’t seem like scum/scum

Post : The second-to-last sentence here sucks, why are you engaging with other players in this way?

Post : I agree with this one
Less relevant knowing SG scum so that’s the only possible partner for him but generally interactions with NM have not seemed S/S

Post : Weren’t you literally complaining about people reacting to your claim earlier?

Post : :lol:

Post : “I'm not going to be sorry for not initially reading your preemptive claim and your reaction of wanting to shut everyone up about it as some sort of pro-town 4d chess move.” Good take

Post : “Cool. Are you going to engage me with when I ask questions to you or is your approach as 'town' to just ignore everyone you don't like?” Also a good take

Post : Agreed

Post : what even is this?

Post /: Yeah Gamma’s town, isn’t she

Post : this is not S/S interaction, Gamma and RR town

Post : True

Post : Still not S/S interaction, once again Gamma town

Post /: townspewwwww

Post : Trueeeee

Post : Ooh boy does this feel like distancing… SG just said she’d be willing to claim and Kcda said they believe Koopa. SG seems to think she’s getting limmed, and has switched to damage control mode. I think this points most to The Bulge as a partner since that’s where she votes but mayhap NM a bit
Either way I don’t think Gamma/RR can be the partner here. Shadowgirl has too many negative equity interactions with them and positive equity interactions with NM/Bulge for that to be the case

Post : This is not how scum interact, also I do not notice Kcda softing :cry:

Post : did not notice this either, I definitely need to start actually keeping my eye out for PRs or for claims because my mindset is always assuming everyone in the game is a vt and that isn’t always very helpful. Also is 82 the soft? Is that a line from one of the characters? I’ve watched a fair bit of AA playthroughs but am not familiar with it. Waitwaitwait it’s post 8 I’m an idiot, is that an Oldbag claim? :lol: I don’t think she has a son though? Dunno who else it’d be though, the only other AA character I recall talking about the good old days and things like that is Grossberg, which happens to be me :lol:

Post : Yeah RR’s approach of looking for a claim before lim doesn’t seem like what scum would do right before a bus. 308/309 still does not look like partner interaction but this is probably redundant since I think RR got shot by desp
I should probably check to actually confirm it but also not knowing means that the way I read things will be less tunnel visioned (on the 3 people who can be scum in that case) and that’s probably better for me to have the full picture of the game?

Post : Is SG voting on NK15 (who NM is also voting) an attempt to build associatives with NM right before she dies? I still don’t think Shadowgirl believes she can escape being limmed here, especially with her on E-1 and NM looming on the horizon
Like how does Shadowgirl aligned with NM benefit from voting NK15 here? There isn’t any significant reason to do it in that situation, methinks
Probably SG/Bulge

Post : Why an NK15 kill?

Post : “obviously koopa is untouchable today” Ugh maybe this is conf bias since I already think Bulge is scum but calling a player “untouchable” instead of saying that we shouldn’t lim them definitely rubs me the wrong way. Sounds more like scum looking at their options for the day than town making a legitimate constatation, just a slight wording thing but I think it may be telling
I don’t like this post in general, it just seems like someone inventing a thought process to start a push on someone and then just leaving
Bulge just has not seemed actively trying to solve the game
They’re posting reads with the thought processes to get to them, but I don’t get the feeling those reads came from a genuine attempt to solve, more from obligation
They could also just be a townie with a lack of energy though
I may just be confbiasing Bulge at this point

Post : Like I said earlier I think there was a period of time where Shadowgirl was in damage control mode and therefore her votes may have been placed less for a mechanical purpose but for setting up future days so I disagree with this point, STD’s dead now though so I guess it’s pointless


(Catchup doesn't all fit in one post so I'm making a second)
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Post Post #576 (ISO) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:16 am

Post by Meuh »

Part 2

Spoiler:
Post : What a cheeky crumb :smile:

Post : Kinda like this post

Post : I also like this one

Post /: Town vibes

Post : ayeeeee I actually noticed that Meekins crumb, I’m so good! (It was painfully obvious but let me be happy for a moment :lol:)

Post /: Dunno about this response to the claim

Post : Hmm interesting
Gamma still reads like very likely town to me although I do wish he was more around after SG’s flip (but she was busy it seems)

Post : Sounds good

Post : Will do, but I can’t say I’ll necessarily follow through with them :lol:

Post : That last point is important, yeah. Why was Koopa left alive? Why did NK15 die? It does point especially towards Gamma since it’s the slot who would be most content with maintaining the status quo of the game

Post : Yay second thoughts time! I was ready to just trust Gamma but now I’ll have to scrutinize the slot a bit more

Post : Wait, are wolves being forced to kill an actual mechanic in many games? It makes sense to prevent infinite stalling but I don’t recall seeing it before
If so then yes we should just head off to sleep and get a 3p ELO, RR’s probably dead so we’re going to have day 3 with 4 unconfirmed people which seems worse than waiting for 3p. We should take advantage of day 3 to some extent regardless, since if someone dies during N3 they at least have the opportunity to voice their reads beforehand which’ll help afterwards

Post //: I get irl factors are a thing and might just be it, but Gamma, considering you posted before the desperato resolve, why didn’t you also engage with Koopa’s case against you at that time? To give them a real opportunity to engage with you and have a discussion about it

Post : I agree with Gamma’s assessment of SG’s 250, I thought (and wrote) pretty much the same thing regarding the interaction there

Post //: I kinda like these

Post : Hmmmmmm

Post //: Does scum name the wrong character for their fake claim?

Post : Building a case against Norwee on the few posts he’s made feels odd considering STD has a much more extensive ISO to read the slot off of. I kinda like though? The immediate confidence of it reads more like a townie making what they see as an obvious constatation than as scum making a push. The fact that the STD slot already had a lot of scrutiny does reduce the risk in making that sort of play for Bulge, though.

Bulge seems to have become a lot more energetic and gamesolvey out of nowhere. Maybe it’s because they’re less busy and we have more info to go off of, but Bulge early day 2 and Bulge post-desperado shot do not read the same. Maybe it’s because of Koopa’s posts giving them more willingness to solve, maybe it’s because the scrutiny on both Gamma and STD gives them a path to victory. I'm interested in this.

Post : Nevermind, I don’t like . I thought Bulge had a more extensive reason to think the entrance was scummy, maybe meta on Norwee, or a more specific pattern in scum players; but instead it’s just “town solves, scum doesn’t solve, so Norwee scum”. This is a fair point, but it doesn’t warrant this much confidence. Bulge looks more like opportunistic scum because of this.

Post : Same wavelength as me, hell yeah Norwee! :cool:

Post /: Interesting point, yeah

Post ////: :lol:

Post : poor Kcda though :(

Post : Does Gamma benefit from sticking to this? I guess STD’s getting limmed either way and it makes him catch less backlash

Post : :cry: sadly we only have 1 lim

Post : I do!!! :smile:

Post ///: This feels tonally pretty terrible :lol:, just a sequence of trying to discredit Norwee. Like a town player could do this if they were really convinced Norwee was scum but I don’t think anything in Norwee’s ISO warrants this level of confidence?

Post : Why do you care? Are you just looking for something else to pile onto your list of reasons to scumread Norwee or do you actually find it suspicious? I don’t think flavour matters that much and it’s not like you were willing to claim flavour either

Post : Goooood point

Post : Ouch :(

Post : Why do people keep acting as though we have 2 lims left? :cry: I guess desp shot threw them off


Alright I’m caught up, let’s win this! :cool:

I think I’ll take a bit of time to compare NM’s ISO to his town and scum game later but so far I don’t think he should be the lim
People exaggerate on how hard NM is to read I think, it’s definitely trickier than most players and I have fallen to the temptation of not sorting him before, but it’s doable, especially with 2 flips (including a red one)

Overall my tiering would be like

Do not lim

Me/Rat
N_M
Gamma
Bulge
Lim


I’m lenient on who to lim though since this is ELO, which is like the worst time to be tunneling
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Post Post #577 (ISO) » Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:13 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Anyone wanna explain why they refused to engaged with my argument for StD/Norwee being town?
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Post Post #578 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:01 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

I have a suspect in mind but I'd like for The Bulge and/or NM to post before I make my move
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Post Post #579 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:25 am

Post by The Bulge »

started mildly suspecting kcda yesterday but idk meuh's catchup doesnt seem very scummy on a skim. im not gonna respond to all that tho, if there are questions you have for me ask em. ill maybe circle back to other parts of those posts as the day progresses.

prolly gonna toss my d1-2 reads out from here.
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Post Post #580 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:58 am

Post by Meuh »

In post 579, The Bulge wrote:started mildly suspecting kcda yesterday but idk meuh's catchup doesnt seem very scummy on a skim. im not gonna respond to all that tho, if there are questions you have for me ask em. ill maybe circle back to other parts of those posts as the day progresses.

prolly gonna toss my d1-2 reads out from here.
Yeah I’ll try to get a self-contained set of questions out at some point, because I understand my catchup isn’t the easiest to find questions in :lol:
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Post Post #581 (ISO) » Tue Apr 19, 2022 7:00 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

If neither The Bulge nor NM do something substantial within 12 hours I’m dropping a vote on one of them
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Post Post #582 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:34 am

Post by Meuh »

In post 581, Gamma Emerald wrote:If neither The Bulge nor NM do something substantial within 12 hours I’m dropping a vote on one of them
Sounds reasonable

Also what do you guys think of the idea of no limming today?
In post 437, koopashell wrote:I'm assuming wolves are forced to kill here, so if we miss here, sleep->3 way will be illuminating in terms of nightkills.
Is it worth it to check if mafia are forced to kill? Narrow down the POE?
We have the “no elim” vote this game so I assume if we reach majority we could end day early and not have to wait for a week for the day to end
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Post Post #583 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:29 am

Post by lendunistus »

Not_Mafia has been prodded.
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Post Post #584 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:39 am

Post by Not_Mafia »

VOTE: The Bulge
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
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Post Post #585 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:38 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 584, Not_Mafia wrote:VOTE: The Bulge
This is not “substantial”
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Post Post #586 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:12 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

VOTE: not mafia
I’m probably not gonna be posting anything more until tomorrow, but I feel like he’s more likely scum vs. Bulge
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Post Post #587 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:44 am

Post by Meuh »

I love game advancing content
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Post Post #588 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:49 am

Post by Meuh »

Bulge should vote NM so I can be confirmed town :cool:

Would be fun
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Post Post #589 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:57 am

Post by The Bulge »

In post 577, Gamma Emerald wrote:Anyone wanna explain why they refused to engaged with my argument for StD/Norwee being town?
i gave up trying to read std but my poe said scum. in retrospect, engaging with you about might have helped me read the slot better, but att i wasnt putting any effort really into sorting the slot. when norwee replaced in i told myself after the first two posts to wait and see what he would produce after catching up, and what i got was a vote and nothing else. i admit i saw red, and coming at him so quickly not giving him a chance to get a footing in anything else going on was not a good move, confbias etc etc.
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Post Post #590 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:58 am

Post by The Bulge »

In post 588, Meuh wrote:Bulge should vote NM so I can be confirmed town :cool:

Would be fun
if i voted nm it would be to taunt him into a self hammer. but in all seriousness, a nolim might not be a bad idea.
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Post Post #591 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:06 am

Post by Meuh »

In post 590, The Bulge wrote:
In post 588, Meuh wrote:Bulge should vote NM so I can be confirmed town :cool:

Would be fun
if i voted nm it would be to taunt him into a self hammer. but in all seriousness, a nolim might not be a bad idea.
:lol: :lol: :lol: I doubt NM selfhammers here, there's nuance in other scenarios but that'd be outright gamethrowing

nolim might not be terrible but I'm under the impression I just die and then day 4 happens with less discussion and one less townie, which does not sound like much fun. :cry:
I can see the benefit for it when it comes to narrowing POE and that made it appealing to me but unless all of us are serious contenders to be limmed today, what's the point?
plus nolim gives scum lenience to try a wacky play and that's scary

Not sure there's enough payoff for it to be worth the risk
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Post Post #592 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:09 am

Post by The Bulge »

@meuh i started to suspect kcda when he picked up my momentum vs norwee right after my activity dropped, but i still haven't given your catchup posts any close attention. gamma and nm i can go thru isos and either confirm or reconsider my townreads. but i feel like your slot is one i won't benefit from rereading so much as with new content.

have you gotten around yet to looking up any examples of nm's town/scum play in past games? how did you initially come to your nm townread? are there any specific points for it or is it like a body of work thing

pedit - i'm not sure there's a risk? i don't see any scenario where it doesn't just lead to either 3p or 4p tomorrow. there's no way scum has a double kill, and obviously any town vigs should not fire.
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Post Post #593 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:14 am

Post by The Bulge »

off topic but i've just realized the proof that vig is correctly pronounced with a hard g.

there is no way "vigs" is two syllables
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Post Post #594 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:21 am

Post by Meuh »

In post 593, The Bulge wrote:off topic but i've just realized the proof that vig is correctly pronounced with a hard g.

there is no way "vigs" is two syllables
I will NEVER say vig with a hard g :cry:
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Post Post #595 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:22 am

Post by The Bulge »

spell it vidge then u coward
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Post Post #596 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:25 am

Post by Meuh »

In post 595, The Bulge wrote:spell it vidge then u coward
Vidgealanntea :D
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Post Post #597 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:28 am

Post by The Bulge »

vigilanté
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Post Post #598 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:51 am

Post by Meuh »

In post 592, The Bulge wrote:@meuh i started to suspect kcda when he picked up my momentum vs norwee right after my activity dropped, but i still haven't given your catchup posts any close attention. gamma and nm i can go thru isos and either confirm or reconsider my townreads. but i feel like your slot is one i won't benefit from rereading so much as with new content.

have you gotten around yet to looking up any examples of nm's town/scum play in past games? how did you initially come to your nm townread? are there any specific points for it or is it like a body of work thing
Makes sense for you to want to look at my new content, yeah. and that's fine with me because I naturally just tend to get sorted accurately by others, I'm a very transparent player (as you'd know from my very clever masonhunting in newb 2063 :lol:)

I have not gotten to looking at other games, no
I'm not really motivated in investing too much effort in this game if no discussion is going to come from it, so at this point I can't say I'm too interested in doing it :lol:

Honestly at this point I'd lim NM over Gamma, I think the negative equity Gamma has with SG is way too significant to be limming her here, I think I got a bit paranoid when Koopa brought up Gamma!scum as a real possibility

Here are the bits of my catchup that involve NM, part of it also just that I think Koopa has solid reads + is town and he saw you and Gamma as more realistic scum options than NM. Norwee also thought NM was town and Norwee's perspective is confirmed to come from a townie
Has anyone who actually had an opinion on NM's alignment thought he was scum?
In post 575, Meuh wrote:
Post :
Readslist -
Radical Rat, Not Known15
The Bulge, Gamma Emerald, Save the Dragons,
Not_Mafia (I have no experience with this person so idk about the self vote; they haven't done any further weighing in)
, koopashell, Kcdaspot (just currently not seeing much reads going on/productive talk)

This is minor partner equity with Bulge, Gamma, STD and N_M

Post : SG/NM still doesn’t seem like scum/scum

Post : I agree with this one
Less relevant knowing SG scum so that’s the only possible partner for him but generally interactions with NM have not seemed S/S

Post : Ooh boy does this feel like distancing… SG just said she’d be willing to claim and Kcda said they believe Koopa. SG seems to think she’s getting limmed, and has switched to damage control mode. I think this points most to The Bulge as a partner since that’s where she votes but mayhap NM a bit
Either way I don’t think Gamma/RR can be the partner here. Shadowgirl has too many negative equity interactions with them and positive equity interactions with NM/Bulge for that to be the case

Post : Is SG voting on NK15 (who NM is also voting) an attempt to build associatives with NM right before she dies? I still don’t think Shadowgirl believes she can escape being limmed here, especially with her on E-1 and NM looming on the horizon
Like how does Shadowgirl aligned with NM benefit from voting NK15 here? There isn’t any significant reason to do it in that situation, methinks
Probably SG/Bulge
In post 576, Meuh wrote:Part 2

Post : I also like this one

Post /: Town vibes

Post : Same wavelength as me, hell yeah Norwee! :cool:

Post : I do!!! :smile:
Less substantive than I thought, which I guess makes sense considering NM's small ISO

If you want to understand my slot better, I recommend checking out , I don't think scum interact like this
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Post Post #599 (ISO) » Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:59 am

Post by The Bulge »

In post 598, Meuh wrote:If you want to understand my slot better, I recommend checking out 277, I don't think scum interact like this
hmm seems unlikely to be coordinated but not impossible.
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