Cosmos Mafia (Postgame)

[Enchant]

I need both T-Bone and magician support.

Any chance i persuade you?

[T-Bone]

It's unlikely I vote Enchant. Strongest town read.

[Magician]

I need both T-Bone and magician support.

Any chance i persuade you?

Of course there is. I lost a recent game in F3 because I didn’t expect a wolf to intentionally sabotage their team, so I’m happy to reevaluate better this time.
…Not that I want to survive until F3 this time, with this amount of activity, but ehh.

[Enchant]

Well look, i never had any problems with jumping on sword, but Lunars look weak. Like, really weak and should had compensation on it. So there's possible this compensation is additional member/convert/etc.

Ending up in possible 2vs2 is losing proposal, even assuming they work against each other.

[Enchant]

Fairly, there's IS flaw in this logic. Like, why Lunar just let self get killed.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

It's unlikely I vote Enchant. Strongest town read.

With credit, I have also had Enchant as town prior to this and I'm not positive Enchant is scum. I find their behaviour surrounding being in my PoE rather scummy, but this is the first thing that I've seen from them that has felt overtly scummy to me. I do think their interactions around all of the flipped scum feel fishy and explicitly not clearing in a way that's concerning to me. But I wouldn't be surprised to find out we're in a world with Enchant-town and PPF-scum.

I am very confident that you are town, and I am very confident that Magician is town. I cannot see either of these being wrong. I'd be interested in discussing Magician more with you because I feel like there are several things that make that slot clear town.

My interest in going Enchant today is largely from an optimisation standpoint; I think the game could very well end with a PPF vote today but it feels wrong to throw away the potential for an extra elimination. If Enchant is really a hard no from you, I'd be interested in hearing more about why you believe Enchant is town as strongly as you do. Like, less 'Enchant feels towny' and more 'these are the thoughts behind that feeling', if that was something you felt confident in engaging with with me.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Basically if you can convince me that Enchant is town then I have no issues with voting PPF today. I'm open to that happening, I think there's credit to the fact that you have a townread there. I want to see why Enchant is as hard town as they are for you and that it's more meaningful than your Firebringer townread specifically.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

What I don't want is for PPF to flip town and then Magician goes at 3. I either need confidence that that's not going to happen, confidence that PPF is just the last scum, or a complete change of reads.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

UNVOTE:

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

I think voting PPF tomorrow is optimal

I kinda wanna go Enchant -> PPF and then I think the game will be over

Maybe PPF first.

I could see this from a villager who wants to see the game through to the end… I can more easily see this from a wolf with nothing to lose. If I recall correctly, Enchant was on the block a couple days ago, but was lifted because

towny

.

This is basically my read on it yeah
I think it's possible that Enchant!town's response was this but it does also conveniently look quite a lot like the only sensible scum response

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

That said, if mastina is scum, then one of her 'townreads' should have been killed. The fact that none of us were is a point in her favor.

That only applies in singleball.

The bigger question is why prof died?

That flip actually clears me because you should know from Heroes’ that scum!me never kills Prof here.

And I only think one scum team can kill a night.

So I’m half cleared for now, the other half will come later if I live long enough.

Scarf still voting me when I am already half clear and will be fully clear later is hella suss. If I somehow get miselimed today, remember that.

Scarf still voting me when I am already half clear and will be fully clear later is hella suss. If I somehow get miselimed today, remember that.

When hypothetically would you be “clear” by? {read I doubt this}

Possibly next day phase, I’m hoping.

T-Bone, can you help me work out why these posts happened please?

@ T-Bone & Magician

On another topic entirely, I'm interested in hearing what you both think about these PPF quotes in the context of PPF's actual claimed role.

[Past Present Future]

I am clear by both my role and because of whatever happened noon 1, Math didn’t die. Scum!Titus 100% always kills Math on d1 here, especially with a vig.

I know it’s not me so I’m fine with voting out anyone today but you and T-Bone.

[Past Present Future]

The game will not end with my flip and game will skip to noon.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

You're going to have to clearly demonstrate how you are clear by your role, because I don't see it.

[Past Present Future]

You're going to have to clearly demonstrate how you are clear by your role, because I don't see it.

My role is pretty much the town equivalent of Fire’s, similar how Mastina’s role was the town counterpart to MMR’s.

It makes perfect sense to me why both Fire and Ydra pocketed me now. Both of them knew my claim was real and wanted to prevent Fire from flipping. Ydrasse never pushed Fire but he was willing to bus her to survive.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

I don't understand how that clears you. You have claimed a similar role to what Fire flipped. Why does that mean you must be Town instead of Solar?

I'm genuinely trying to understand that perspective but I don't see why this disqualifies you from being Solar.

I will say that I think Firebringer's flip is evidence that you do at least have a role that's much like his. But I'm not sure that it means you must be town.

[Past Present Future]

I don't understand how that clears you. You have claimed a similar role to what Fire flipped. Why does that mean you must be Town instead of Solar?

I'm genuinely trying to understand that perspective but I don't see why this disqualifies you from being Solar.

I will say that I think Firebringer's flip is evidence that you do at least have a role that's much like his. But I'm not sure that it means you must be town.

Do you think it makes any sense that Mega would have a Solar role as a close equivalent to his? Look Mastina flipped town astrologer right and MMR scum astrologer, so I think his flip as you said gives credence to my role being similar to his in the same way as with MMR/Mastina. In fact, that’s pretty much the main reason Mastina initially wrongly sussed Math, because she initially thought he had her role and therefore it would have to be scum.

So my thinking here is that both of them knew that MMR had lied and that’s why they needed to pocket me. They were clearly afraid that my townflip of a very similar role would out Fire and both Fire and Ydra know what a ridiculously easy pocket I am.

If they believed I was solar, then they wouldn’t have buddied me. No, they knew that my flip would fuck them. Explain to me how both Ydrasse and Fire had me nowhere in their PoE?

[MegAzumarill]

vc

[Magician]

That said, if mastina is scum, then one of her 'townreads' should have been killed. The fact that none of us were is a point in her favor.

That only applies in singleball.

The bigger question is why prof died?

That flip actually clears me because you should know from Heroes’ that scum!me never kills Prof here.

And I only think one scum team can kill a night.

So I’m half cleared for now, the other half will come later if I live long enough.

Scarf still voting me when I am already half clear and will be fully clear later is hella suss. If I somehow get miselimed today, remember that.

Scarf still voting me when I am already half clear and will be fully clear later is hella suss. If I somehow get miselimed today, remember that.

When hypothetically would you be “clear” by? {read I doubt this}

Possibly next day phase, I’m hoping.

T-Bone, can you help me work out why these posts happened please?

@ T-Bone & Magician

On another topic entirely, I'm interested in hearing what you both think about these PPF quotes in the context of PPF's actual claimed role.

It’s mechanically unsound to clear anyone off a venge claim, but let’s take PPF’s claim at face value for now. Assuming these posts were made before PFP publicly claimed, it reads to me as though PPF’s (if town) was hoping to bait a kill by softing innocent child, or just any confirmable power role, which is a weird decision for a wolf to make. The push on Scarf for voting you when you

aren’t

confirmed, and acting like you already are, is weird, but I can’t objectively talk about pushes onto my slot when I wasn’t there.

MMR and Meuh’s roles weren’t really similar, outside of having investigative properties. Fire and PPF’s roles are way closer aligned, what with changing phases… I dunno, this could go either way. I’d like to hear PPF chime in.

[Magician]

By the way, @Enchant, thanks for post #8150. That was a helpful recap.

[T-Bone]

That said, if mastina is scum, then one of her 'townreads' should have been killed. The fact that none of us were is a point in her favor.

That only applies in singleball.

The bigger question is why prof died?

That flip actually clears me because you should know from Heroes’ that scum!me never kills Prof here.

And I only think one scum team can kill a night.

So I’m half cleared for now, the other half will come later if I live long enough.

Scarf still voting me when I am already half clear and will be fully clear later is hella suss. If I somehow get miselimed today, remember that.

Scarf still voting me when I am already half clear and will be fully clear later is hella suss. If I somehow get miselimed today, remember that.

When hypothetically would you be “clear” by? {read I doubt this}

Possibly next day phase, I’m hoping.

T-Bone, can you help me work out why these posts happened please?

@ T-Bone & Magician

On another topic entirely, I'm interested in hearing what you both think about these PPF quotes in the context of PPF's actual claimed role.

To me this is Nancy saying they would never kill the players that got killed so this they are town. I don't think she was hinting at an aspect of her role she has since retconned, if that's what you're thinking.

[Klick]

I'd like to hear more about the reasons behind your thinking on Enchant-town and how they stand out from your townread on Firebringer
I want to see Enchant-town like you see Enchant-town

[Past Present Future]

That said, if mastina is scum, then one of her 'townreads' should have been killed. The fact that none of us were is a point in her favor.

That only applies in singleball.

The bigger question is why prof died?

That flip actually clears me because you should know from Heroes’ that scum!me never kills Prof here.

And I only think one scum team can kill a night.

So I’m half cleared for now, the other half will come later if I live long enough.

Scarf still voting me when I am already half clear and will be fully clear later is hella suss. If I somehow get miselimed today, remember that.

Scarf still voting me when I am already half clear and will be fully clear later is hella suss. If I somehow get miselimed today, remember that.

When hypothetically would you be “clear” by? {read I doubt this}

Possibly next day phase, I’m hoping.

T-Bone, can you help me work out why these posts happened please?

@ T-Bone & Magician

On another topic entirely, I'm interested in hearing what you both think about these PPF quotes in the context of PPF's actual claimed role.

To me this is Nancy saying they would never kill the players that got killed so this they are town. I don't think she was hinting at an aspect of her role she has since retconned, if that's what you're thinking.

What I was actually saying with theses posts that I was hoping for a tpr to check me.

[Magician]

What I don't want is for PPF to flip town and then Magician goes at 3. I either need confidence that that's not going to happen, confidence that PPF is just the last scum, or a complete change of reads.

It sure would suck if my slot had been converted a few phases ago. Hypothetically.

[T-Bone]

I'd like to hear more about the reasons behind your thinking on Enchant-town and how they stand out from your townread on Firebringer
I want to see Enchant-town like you see Enchant-town

Firebringer was more of a gut feel. I thought their predecessor was fine. I disagreed with the scumreads on FA because I thought they were getting themselves baited into the behavior people found scummy rather than expressing the behavior. I thought Firebringer was fine when he entered and wasn't really offensive in his time here.

I don't see Enchant the same way. The first time I pinged Enchant as town was the same interaction I quoted from Scarf earlier. Enchant showed they had the same thought about attunement I did. Maybe they could fake it, idk. But Enchant constantly shows what they are thinking (by constantly I mean in the infrequent times he does content posts). I feel like their mindset has been very similar to mine this game. Admittedly if I am in anyone's pocket I'm in Enchant's.

I know Enchant's ISO is full of a lot of nonsequiter posts. I think to see Enchant as town you'd have to look past that, as that appears to just be Enchant's play style. When Enchant offers thoughts I find that either a) I agree with them or b) I can clearly see where they are coming from. To see an example of this, that came from our recent interaction about a 4th Lunar. I disagreed that there was another Lunar. But as Enchant explained it more I could see where they were coming from. I also recognize that a solar!enchant is incentivized to claim there is still Lunar out there. For me I trust where Enchant is coming from because we have a full game of rapport where I can fall back on even if "enchant is solar" is a logical explanation.

Would I hold onto Enchant is town in 3p? No. I wouldn't hold on to anyone being town in 3p. You don't need to be concerned there.