Open 867: PYP: SEFD - Game Over !


User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2175 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:22 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2160, kitten around wrote:Also he was right about you not posting, so yeah I think it’s more likely to be you than NM but I want to hear from him first before I vote because in case it is NM fooling me, I don’t want the dead thread screaming at me post game.

So I want to hear your cases for why you’re both town and the other is scum, to help me make up my mind.
also regarding this I wish people would not insinuate I was intentionally lurking?? I generally would not do that as either alignment because again I am addicted to mafia, it was literally just a holiday weekend here in the US and it happened to be very busy for me, I announced my V/LA way ahead of time. I think it would be really scummy (in the real life scummy type of way) to use an Out of Game Influence in order to intentionally lurk so I really wish people would stop insinuating I was trying to do that?
User avatar
kitten around
kitten around
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kitten around
Goon
Goon
Posts: 320
Joined: June 17, 2021

Post Post #2176 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:24 pm

Post by kitten around »

In post 2173, Dannflor wrote:I had made it pretty abundantly clear that Porkens was my top town read and I don't think NM scum read Porkens either

so I don't really think either you or NM could've brought him to F3
Why wouldn’t NM have brought Porkens to F3?

I think that would be a pretty easy miselim for scum!NM either way?
User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2177 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:32 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2174, kitten around wrote:So tell me, why should I think it’s NM, not you?

If I can confidently townread either of you, this will become a helluva lot easier.
from my point of view:
1. I'm not sure why I'd ever choose an F3 with an NM who has been tunneling me for 3 day phases, especially when there is a Porkens/kitten F3 sitting right there
2. Kitty was like shitpushing me all through days like 1-4 even through NSG dying and only dropped the scum read for a weird pockety town read to support the elimination I was pushing on town
3. like almost every night killed townie has thought I was town. Penguin thought I was town, BEAR thought I was town, Roden thought I was town. Porkens went back and forth on me but I think he still generally thought I was town?
4. I was one of the main driving forces behind both kitty and nsg dying? with kitty in particular it was my swap to kitty that caused his death, I think there was a good chance NM dies instead if that doesn't happen which would obviously be way more favorable for me if I was scum here. Just in general the way both flipped scum have treated me is like... not how scum handles buddies
5. I would not be aggravating you as scum tbh. kitten, I know you very well. We've played together a lot. I know you are suspicious when people don't read you accurately. Why would I as scum cause you to be suspicious of me? Especially when NM is likely to just vote me? I would be aggroing the person who needs to town read me for no reason

anyway I really really hope that this is just NM because I think regardless of his alignment he's going to come in and vote me here
User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2178 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:32 pm

Post by Dannflor »

okay I just have one question for you kitten

what specifically are your obv town tells this game?
User avatar
kitten around
kitten around
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kitten around
Goon
Goon
Posts: 320
Joined: June 17, 2021

Post Post #2179 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:32 pm

Post by kitten around »

In post 2175, Dannflor wrote:
In post 2160, kitten around wrote:Also he was right about you not posting, so yeah I think it’s more likely to be you than NM but I want to hear from him first before I vote because in case it is NM fooling me, I don’t want the dead thread screaming at me post game.

So I want to hear your cases for why you’re both town and the other is scum, to help me make up my mind.
also regarding this I wish people would not insinuate I was intentionally lurking?? I generally would not do that as either alignment because again I am addicted to mafia, it was literally just a holiday weekend here in the US and it happened to be very busy for me, I announced my V/LA way ahead of time. I think it would be really scummy (in the real life scummy type of way) to use an Out of Game Influence in order to intentionally lurk so I really wish people would stop insinuating I was trying to do that?
Dann, this doesn’t really answer my question. Why should I tr you more than NM?
User avatar
kitten around
kitten around
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kitten around
Goon
Goon
Posts: 320
Joined: June 17, 2021

Post Post #2180 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:36 pm

Post by kitten around »

In post 2177, Dannflor wrote:
In post 2174, kitten around wrote:So tell me, why should I think it’s NM, not you?

If I can confidently townread either of you, this will become a helluva lot easier.
from my point of view:
1. I'm not sure why I'd ever choose an F3 with an NM who has been tunneling me for 3 day phases, especially when there is a Porkens/kitten F3 sitting right there
2. Kitty was like shitpushing me all through days like 1-4 even through NSG dying and only dropped the scum read for a weird pockety town read to support the elimination I was pushing on town
3. like almost every night killed townie has thought I was town. Penguin thought I was town, BEAR thought I was town, Roden thought I was town. Porkens went back and forth on me but I think he still generally thought I was town?
4. I was one of the main driving forces behind both kitty and nsg dying? with kitty in particular it was my swap to kitty that caused his death, I think there was a good chance NM dies instead if that doesn't happen which would obviously be way more favorable for me if I was scum here. Just in general the way both flipped scum have treated me is like... not how scum handles buddies
5. I would not be aggravating you as scum tbh. kitten, I know you very well. We've played together a lot. I know you are suspicious when people don't read you accurately. Why would I as scum cause you to be suspicious of me? Especially when NM is likely to just vote me? I would be aggroing the person who needs to town read me for no reason

anyway I really really hope that this is just NM because I think regardless of his alignment he's going to come in and vote me here
If you can provide any links or quotes, that would be super helpful. Well my answer to that, is that scum!Roden did try to provoke me in a previous game. It’s true scum!you is far more likely to pocket me. Idk Dann, I’m just really afraid to get this wrong.
User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2181 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:41 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2024, KittyTacky wrote:KittyTacky - I'm town.
Dannflor - Town. Generally been solvy, shading of me seems uninformed (both of my meta and of this game). I think the Junko push also seemed uninformed.
kitten around - Town. Activity around Junko seemed TvT honestly, I doubt scum would react so explosively to an attack and attract unneeded attention to themselves.
PenguinPower - Null. Didn't do anything outrageously scummy this game but he's just kinda there which I thiiiink is NAI for PP?
Enchant - Null. I can't read Enchant. Sorry.
Porkens - Scum lean. I still don't like this, was just a bit hesitant to vote them yesterday.
Not_Mafia - Scum. I reread the game today, I don't think this is town NM, NM contrary to popular belief actually plays to win as town and here he's just... there. I retract my "scapecow" comment, he really reads like bored/demoralized/dissociated scum from the tone of his posts. Lim this.
I guess I keep coming back to this

the town read on you looks more pockety than anything else. It's very similar to the read on me. Very vague phrases ascribing towniness without much specifics. Granted, Kitty doesn't go into specifics with any of his reads, but his longest and most detailed read is NM. I don't remember who said it, maybe RC, but I remember somewhere reading that if scum have one read that they ascribe a ton more words to it's usually likely to be a scum buddy. Because scum are hyper aware of how they are reading their buddies and want to make extra sure it looks "real"

also, from a gamestate perspective, I think it is likely that with NM and Kitty being the top two wagons of that day, it is very likely they'd bus each other.

a caught scumteam will push each other down to stay afloat
User avatar
kitten around
kitten around
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kitten around
Goon
Goon
Posts: 320
Joined: June 17, 2021

Post Post #2182 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:42 pm

Post by kitten around »

In post 2178, Dannflor wrote:okay I just have one question for you kitten

what specifically are your obv town tells this game?
I don’t think I can answer without getting into trouble for trust telling but I just don’t ever play like this as scum. I’ve been earnestly solving, having convictions in my reads and just read my games, because I think it’s beyond obvious I’m town here and it pings me somewhat if you can’t see that.

You did say you would get there in correctly reading me, which is one of the reasons I tr you but NM seemed to be quite convinced it was you. Do you think he can fake that as scum?
User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2183 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:42 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2180, kitten around wrote:Well my answer to that, is that scum!Roden did try to provoke me in a previous game.
I think provoking you might be a useful strategy for scum on like D1

not in F3 where scum needs you to town read them?
User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2184 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:43 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2182, kitten around wrote:Do you think he can fake that as scum?
...yes

I don't know NM has scum read me for ??? reasons for like 3 days now and always found another wagon to hammer despite me being his top scum read

I am doubting that it's real
User avatar
kitten around
kitten around
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kitten around
Goon
Goon
Posts: 320
Joined: June 17, 2021

Post Post #2185 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:45 pm

Post by kitten around »

In post 2181, Dannflor wrote:
In post 2024, KittyTacky wrote:KittyTacky - I'm town.
Dannflor - Town. Generally been solvy, shading of me seems uninformed (both of my meta and of this game). I think the Junko push also seemed uninformed.
kitten around - Town. Activity around Junko seemed TvT honestly, I doubt scum would react so explosively to an attack and attract unneeded attention to themselves.
PenguinPower - Null. Didn't do anything outrageously scummy this game but he's just kinda there which I thiiiink is NAI for PP?
Enchant - Null. I can't read Enchant. Sorry.
Porkens - Scum lean. I still don't like this, was just a bit hesitant to vote them yesterday.
Not_Mafia - Scum. I reread the game today, I don't think this is town NM, NM contrary to popular belief actually plays to win as town and here he's just... there. I retract my "scapecow" comment, he really reads like bored/demoralized/dissociated scum from the tone of his posts. Lim this.
I guess I keep coming back to this

the town read on you looks more pockety than anything else. It's very similar to the read on me. Very vague phrases ascribing towniness without much specifics. Granted, Kitty doesn't go into specifics with any of his reads, but his longest and most detailed read is NM. I don't remember who said it, maybe RC, but I remember somewhere reading that if scum have one read that they ascribe a ton more words to it's usually likely to be a scum buddy. Because scum are hyper aware of how they are reading their buddies and want to make extra sure it looks "real"

also, from a gamestate perspective, I think it is likely that with NM and Kitty being the top two wagons of that day, it is very likely they'd bus each other.

a caught scumteam will push each other down to stay afloat
That’s a very good point actually. Kitty’s push on NM could definitely look like bussing.

It could be NM.
User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2186 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:45 pm

Post by Dannflor »

early interactions between Gamma and NSG strike me as like

weird for a bus

Gamma seems genuinely upset that me and NSG would be voting her
User avatar
kitten around
kitten around
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kitten around
Goon
Goon
Posts: 320
Joined: June 17, 2021

Post Post #2187 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:47 pm

Post by kitten around »

In post 2183, Dannflor wrote:
In post 2180, kitten around wrote:Well my answer to that, is that scum!Roden did try to provoke me in a previous game.
I think provoking you might be a useful strategy for scum on like D1

not in F3 where scum needs you to town read them?
Well scum!Roden did that to me in an F3 as well or rather he was pushing the other townie and waffling on me, then the other townie voted me, than Roden hammered.
User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2188 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:49 pm

Post by Dannflor »

gamma unprompted early roleblocker claim seems

like very weird scum play if it's scum play
User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2189 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:50 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 2182, kitten around wrote:I don’t think I can answer without getting into trouble for trust telling but I just don’t ever play like this as scum. I’ve been earnestly solving, having convictions in my reads and just read my games, because I think it’s beyond obvious I’m town here and it pings me somewhat if you can’t see that.
okay, thank you

that actually helps somewhat
User avatar
kitten around
kitten around
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kitten around
Goon
Goon
Posts: 320
Joined: June 17, 2021

Post Post #2190 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:51 pm

Post by kitten around »

In post 2186, Dannflor wrote:early interactions between Gamma and NSG strike me as like

weird for a bus

Gamma seems genuinely upset that me and NSG would be voting her
I really hope you’re town here because I initially was leaning you over NM and now I’ve got that reversed. If I solely went by gut, I’d say I like your tone better than NM’s and why did he hamler Enchant if he was so convinced it was you? Why didn’t he fight for that read?
User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2191 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:51 pm

Post by Dannflor »

I don't know NM

I thought at first I could twist my head and actually see your reasons for scum reading me but I have trouble seeing how you as town justified hammering three slots in a row while i was your top scum read

there wasn't even any particular type of trying to persuade people to vote me instead

it feels not real
User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2192 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:53 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1248, Gamma Emerald wrote:my reason for thinking nsg and junko aren't paired is that if nsg did think it was safe to disengage at the end of the day yesterday it means no scumbuddies were at risk, so junko can't be a partner
this was actually a good read :(
User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2193 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:55 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 102, KittyTacky wrote:Gamma Emerald is being weird but I'm not sure if that's scummy or just being NAI weird.
In post 258, KittyTacky wrote:
In post 151, Porkens wrote:Yeah gamma is scummy.
Still not seeing it.
In post 259, KittyTacky wrote:
In post 159, Dannflor wrote:i have a scum read on porkens

it is medium strong
Me too NGL, the Gamma case feels a little forced. Intent to vote once I finish my backread.
In post 264, KittyTacky wrote:
In post 263, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Kitty talk to me about Porkens when you're done reading, I haven't quite landed on an opinion there
The case on Gamma gave me terrible vibes. Then they suddenly jumped off despite seeming pretty convinced.
In post 815, KittyTacky wrote:I still think Gamma is probably town.
In post 980, KittyTacky wrote:Was re-reading the game. Pretty sure Porkens is scum, esp by the interactions with Gamma.
VOTE: Porkens
In post 1110, KittyTacky wrote:
In post 1105, JohnnyFarrar wrote:
In post 1102, Dannflor wrote:
In post 1044, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Also I'm not gonna vote Gamma today barring something wild
Johnny can you elaborate on this like you elaborated on your read of me that one time
The two things that jump to mind when thinking about Gamma's position in this game are

1) The way their wagon rose and fell yesterday feels natural to me

2) I don't think scum hears whoever say "yeah scum prolly tried for Bear's role and didn't get it" and goes YEAH I DID THAT out loud in the thread
And I agree with this, Gamma is nearly locktown for me.
In post 1420, KittyTacky wrote:
In post 1350, Dannflor wrote:like Porkens made this huge big splash for what reason

what was it prompted by

it's such an unintuitive gambit if scum because like he was never in danger!! I know scum like to be nonsensical and shit and you shouldn't read scum by what they would "intellectually do"

but I have found generally town are likely to crack under little to no pressure way more often than scum who try extra hard to seem cool and unbothered
I just think his bad case on Gamma and the gross reaction to being pushed outweigh the strange claim.
this feels like a WK response to an early wagon on town

I don't think it's natural or intuitive at all for scum to persistently and defiantly town read a buddy in this way

it reads like wanting cred for after Gamma flips
User avatar
kitten around
kitten around
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kitten around
Goon
Goon
Posts: 320
Joined: June 17, 2021

Post Post #2194 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:56 pm

Post by kitten around »

In post 2191, Dannflor wrote:I don't know NM

I thought at first I could twist my head and actually see your reasons for scum reading me but I have trouble seeing how you as town justified hammering three slots in a row while i was your top scum read

there wasn't even any particular type of trying to persuade people to vote me instead

it feels not real
Yeah, if I was as extremely confident on you!scum as he seemed to be, I would have hardpushed that read if it were me. I’m going to wait for NM but as town you don’t ever want to intentionally miselim and he never even tried to change either Porkens’ or my mind on Enchant, which would of course be fine if he wasn’t hardpushing you.
User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2195 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:57 pm

Post by Dannflor »

In post 1965, KittyTacky wrote:The rapid wagon on NM is just... idk. He usually tends to be the scape
goat
cow.
In post 2024, KittyTacky wrote:
In post 2015, Dannflor wrote: Kitty, can you explain where and how you went from scum reading me to town reading me? who do you actually think is scum right now? I don't remember you pushing anyone yesterday until there was a fire going on between me and Junko
Somewhere around D2-D3, when your weird behavior around me and Gamma stopped and you seemed very solvy, which I think is town. And I didn't vote because the game was pretty much going nowhere and in those situations I don't know what to do especially as town.

My reads list:
KittyTacky - I'm town.
Dannflor - Town. Generally been solvy, shading of me seems uninformed (both of my meta and of this game). I think the Junko push also seemed uninformed.
kitten around - Town. Activity around Junko seemed TvT honestly, I doubt scum would react so explosively to an attack and attract unneeded attention to themselves.
PenguinPower - Null. Didn't do anything outrageously scummy this game but he's just kinda there which I thiiiink is NAI for PP?
Enchant - Null. I can't read Enchant. Sorry.
Porkens - Scum lean. I still don't like this, was just a bit hesitant to vote them yesterday.
Not_Mafia - Scum. I reread the game today, I don't think this is town NM, NM contrary to popular belief actually plays to win as town and here he's just... there. I retract my "scapecow" comment, he really reads like bored/demoralized/dissociated scum from the tone of his posts. Lim this.

VOTE: Not_Mafia
this progression

idk it's possible I'm hardcore confbiasing right now but it looks so much like a "bus to stay afloat" type progression
User avatar
kitten around
kitten around
Goon
User avatar
User avatar
kitten around
Goon
Goon
Posts: 320
Joined: June 17, 2021

Post Post #2196 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:58 pm

Post by kitten around »

In post 2192, Dannflor wrote:
In post 1248, Gamma Emerald wrote:my reason for thinking nsg and junko aren't paired is that if nsg did think it was safe to disengage at the end of the day yesterday it means no scumbuddies were at risk, so junko can't be a partner
this was actually a good read :(
He correctly read both Enchant and Junko.
User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2197 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:59 pm

Post by Dannflor »

okay
User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2198 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:59 pm

Post by Dannflor »

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
User avatar
Dannflor
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
User avatar
User avatar
Dannflor
he/him
Survivor
Survivor
Posts: 17647
Joined: May 25, 2012
Pronoun: he/him

Post Post #2199 (ISO) » Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:59 pm

Post by Dannflor »

Do you know how much I hate F3s
Locked

Return to “Completed Open Games”