Mini Normal 2285: GM [game over]

[Ydrasse]

i will probably elaborate on my thoughts regarding the setup too at some point beyond just griping and complaining

gg everyone, and thank you for modding!

p-edit: we managed to nk three times in a row, had no way to disrupt the 2 protectives one of whom was never going to be on what should have been an obvious target IC, and the only choice of a kill we could technically "always" (but not really bc jk) get would rob us of the sole power we had this game
it was unpleasant and demoralizing

i claimed what i did because otherwise we both die and it was about the only chance we had, claiming a role that would in theory play into the idea of ascetics/scum roleblocks/etc existing while also being able to generate an inno on my partner when she was blocked (which we realized instantly i feel) was the most i could do in terms of keeping us alive

[Val89]

I'm such a clown.

GG everyone; and thanks for modding, Datisi.

[Firebringer]

if this was mountainous u guys win this 10/10 times.
I do think this was town sided but i do think once u knew me and math roles u could have chosen better targets or better people to perform the kill.

[Toto]

Nice nice. Those were some good shots Firebringer. Thanks for carrying town.

[Ydrasse]

our targets were iv -> math -> fire for all of our missed kills
idk
i feel like these in theory should have given us something but two protectives is actually just not fun to deal with
and i don't think that the ninja role made too much of an impact

even something like a 1-shot roleblocker/strongman would have done wonders for morale and being able to function in general
i don't think there should ever be something like endless doc shots on top of someone's ability to protect + block

[Ydrasse]

i also think it's incredibly unfun that one of said protectives knows that they shouldn't be on the obvious person and gets to be off doing other things further hamstringing the mafia

[Firebringer]

wait. why did u go for a kill on me when math already announced he was protecting me the night u go for a kill.

[Ydrasse]

i think we were both checked out at that point so idr lol

[MathBlade]

Gg all

I really think scum needed a big brother or something to make that level of power work.

Then they can submit kills after.

Nice game all.

[MathBlade]

At least my reads are improving and wasn’t dumpster fire.

Thanks to the scum team for sticking it out.

[MathBlade]

I'm such a clown.

GG everyone; and thanks for modding, Datisi.

You’re not a clown I have been there.

[skitter30]

I've had several writeups abt the setup in the scum PT, but in short, this was very Not Fun to play, and we knew we were going to get mechanically poe'd since ~day3, which zapped basically all of my motivation

[skitter30]

skitter the only critique i have of ur play is ur tunnel on herta became more unbelievable as time went on. especially today but other than that u got POEd scum and there wasn't much u can do. I think u played extremely well despite that and u handled my semi-guilty well enough that it made me question and reconsider it.

Idk what u and ydra were thinking though on that inno on u.

Yeah, i kinda knew it was, but i didnt feel like i had a lot of options either

You/math were *maybe* misflippable yesterday but at that point i didnt have enuf motivation to try to make it happen

I will admit readily that this was not my 'cleanest' game, i actually don't think i played this that well so i appreciate you saying it

The inno was basically: we're screwed and not winning this so lol why not

[skitter30]

if this was mountainous u guys win this 10/10 times.
I do think this was town sided but i do think once u knew me and math roles u could have chosen better targets or better people to perform the kill.

The issue with the setup is basically that we had no way to deal with layers of protectives, and the protectives that did exist forced us to kill specific players in a specific order (if we even managed to get the kill off)

By dayplay we absolutely made the right choices n1/n2, we had no reason to think a doc or jk existed

N3 was a mistake - neither of us realized math was goijg to be on fire. I didnt actually make the kill that night

I basically wrote this in the scum pt like a month ago, but:

- we were told the ic ninja enable existed, and that the watcher existed
- we were therefore strictly disincentivized to target the ic before targeting the watcher
- n1 we didnt know who the watcher was and tried to tatget iv for dayplay reasons
- he got docced, fine that happens
- at that point we knew the doc existed (i picked up on math crumbs within like two posts, we knew it was him *well* before he fully claimed)
- so n2 we go to kill the doc so we can later go and kill the watcher so we can later go kill the ic
- he doesnt die. We find out there's a loljk
- so to kill the ic we need to kill the watcher (who we need to find) and there'd a jk/doc running around with infinite shots that we 'd need a lot of luck to kill and we can't do anything abt the ic/watcher until we handle the jk/doc
- at that point motivation is zapped and we're basically forced to kill slots in very specific orders, and we were p sure that depending on how many shots you had we could get poe'd mechanically
- we basically had no agency in who to kill, and weren't even sure we *could* on a given night
- it felt a lot like we were punisged for making the right nk choices

The path to vicyory was not flipping ydra yesterday, killing you last night, being in elo today with val/math and having val vote math in 6way elo

And neither of us had the motivation yestersay to really prevent her flip

[skitter30]

It also felt like we were playing to what we all knew was a loss for a very long time irl and it was v hard to keep motivation when we all knew this was likely mechanically unwinnable
It just kinda took town a while to realize that

[Ydrasse]

it did make me smile when everyone was asking questions about checkers

[MathBlade]

I appreciate you and Ydrasse being good sports and finishing out. That’s been rare in some games.

[Ydrasse]

but yeah skitter said everything i feel way more Smart

please give mafia at least some tool to have agency
informed should never take the place of what could be more direct power, imho
ninja was kind of barely a power here.

[Ydrasse]

we commiserated together in the pt lol
i wanted to concede way earlier since i knew it was almost always lost

[skitter30]

Yeah that's why i felt ok conceding even tho i don't really like to do that, we had kinda wanted to a while avo anyways

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

town played really well for the most part - a lot of great solving/play and you all have much to be proud of.

congrats on a well fought win.

I think I take probably 90ish% of the blame for making the wrong nightkills when I was alive - if I had shot Dannflor instead of IV on N1 this game probably goes much differently but sometimes that's how things work out - we should've known there was a doctor from knowing the about the macho IC and also could've maybe guessed that IV would get protected. I compounded the error by picking to nightkill the claimed doctor on N2 thinking there wouldn't be a second protective on top of the watcher we knew about and the game was pretty much unwinnable from that point on with a JK/Watcher/Doctor/IC all alive.

I think in a world where we make better choices this is possible to win but still very tough against great townplay.

Thank you for modding Dats - sorry about being a whiny asshole in the deadchat, I didn't mean it, I love playing your normals.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@IV I thought you played extremely well in being a dominant voice and also pushing at all the right angles. Very impressed with your townplay however I did have this issue with it:

As someone who knowingly has a polarized playstyle difference between his town/scum games - I believe these following posts stray into the territory of trust-telling and hope you consider removing it from your townplay in general. It was fairly obvious you were town, you didn't need to do this.

I can guarantee you that I am not able to play with this much engagement and fluidity if I am scum, and I think some others can attest to that. I don’t think many people on this site can either. I think you should focus your efforts elsewhere but if we need to get over this now we can

I know people are getting paranoid because solves are confusing but just a reminder I literally cannot play like this as scum, nor can a lot of people.

[skitter30]

Yeah i do want to give a lot of credit to town, you made a lot of good choices and had very good nightplay

I don't think killing iv n1 was a mistake (and even if it was, it should not have sunk the rest of the game as much as it did)

Rn i am still a little frustrated but i am sure i will get to where pooky is in a bit, sorry if i'm complaining a lot lol

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@ Skitter/Ydra - I had a lot of fun even despite the result and it was a joy to play with you both <3

thanks for the game.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Rn i am still a little frustrated but i am sure i will get to where pooky is in a bit, sorry if i'm complaining a lot lol

hehe i was just glad i didnt get yeeted d1 like every other time im mafia with you :3