Dannflor's Mini Normal Review, December 2022 (Released)

[implosion]

(I know this /in is like a month and a half or so old, if you're no longer interested in modding no worries)

/in to mod Mini

Mini Normal XXXX:

Halloween

Game moderated by Dannflor and reviewed by X and Y.

Current Status:

Pregame

Phase Deadline:

n/a

---

Player List

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.

Spoiler: Alive Players

Spoiler: Dead Players

Events:

Game Rules

General

• All site rules apply.
• Always play to win.
• Please remain kind and respectful throughout the game. Heated discussion is allowed, but personal attacks are not. Remember that this is a game and comment on the play, not the player.
• Do not quote any private communication regarding this game. This includes your role PM, all mod communication, posts from private threads, etc.
• If you need to get my attention, please include @mod in your post or PM me.
• Don’t use provable randomness. This includes dice tags, screenshots of random.org, etc. You can say you flipped a coin, but don’t try to provide proof that you did so.
• Do not post in the game thread or any private topics following your death, with the exception of the dead thread.
• Use common sense.
• Do not try to find loopholes in these rules to gain an advantage. I reserve the right to change these rules at any time. If you have a question about whether something might be breaking the rules, PM me first!
•

This

(#FF800) is my color. Don’t use it to impersonate me.

Voting

• The first day phase will last for 10 days, with the following day phases lasting 7 days. Nights last 48 hours.
• To vote or unvote for someone, you must use bold or vote: tags, with vote tags being preferable.
• Votes in spoilers do not count.
• Abbreviations and nicknames are acceptable, as long as I can understand them.
• An elimination occurs when a majority (>50%) of votes is reached. If no majority is reached before deadline, the day will end in a no-elimination.
• Voting to end the day in a no-elimination only requires 50% of votes rather than a majority.
• Once a hammer has occurred or the deadline has expired, the phase is over. Discussion may continue until I lock the thread but no further votes or unvotes will be counted.
Activity:
• You are expected to make at least one game-relevant post every 36 hours. Players who go 6 hours without posting will be prodded.
• If you are prodded, you have 24 hours to post in-thread. If you do not respond within 24 hours, you will be replaced. Additionally, if I have to prod you 3 or more times, I reserve the right to replace you at my own discretion.
• Abuse of prod dodges will result in you being replaced at my own discretion.
• If you are going to be V/LA, please announce it in thread or PM me. If you V/LA will last 7 days or longer I may replace you at my own discretion.

Setup

• This game is a Normal Setup and follows the Normal guidelines and Natural Action Resolution.
• This game contains 10 town-aligned players and 3 mafia-aligned players.
• Any private threads will be open at all times.
• If you have a night action that you can use, PM your action to me. If you are mafia, you can also send in your night actions in your private thread, using bold text.
• At least one player has received the following role:

Spoiler: Vanilla Townie

Welcome [playername] to Mini Normal XXXX! You are a

Vanilla Townie.

You have no abilities other than your voice and your vote.

Win Condition:

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me what your role name is.

Setup Setup

13 Players

Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Town Bodyguard
Town 1-shot Bulletproof
Town Roleblocker
Town Weak 2-shot Hider

Mafia Goon
Mafia 1-shot Strongman
Mafia Universal Backup

Spoiler: Role PMs

Welcome [playername] to Mini Normal XXXX! You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no abilities other than your voice and your vote.

Win Condition:

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me what your role name is.

Welcome [playername] to Mini Normal XXXX! You are a

Bodyguard

.

In the night phase, you can target another living player to guard, preventing that player from one kill attempt during the night. If you stop a kill in this manner, you will die instead.

Win Condition:

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me what your role name is.

Welcome [playername] to Mini Normal XXXX! You are a

1-shot Bulletproof

.

You are protected from the first killing action that targets you.

Win Condition:

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me what your role name is.

Welcome [playername] to Mini Normal XXXX! You are a

Roleblocker

.

In the night phase, you can target another living player to roleblock. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be unable to use any abilities that night.

Win Condition:

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me what your role name is.

Welcome [playername] to Mini Normal XXXX! You are a

Weak 2-shot Hider

.

In the night phase, you may target another living player to hide behind. Assuming no interference with your action, you will only be able to be killed by killing actions that target the player you are hiding behind. However, if your target is not aligned with the Town, you will die. This ability may only be used twice.

Win Condition:

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me what your role name is.

Welcome [playername] to Mini Normal XXXX! You are a

Mafia Goon

.

The other members of the

Mafia Faction

are X, a

Mafia 1-shot Strongman

, and Y, a

Mafia Universal Backup

.

In the night phase, a member of your faction is able to kill a player. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional private thread, located here, where you may talk at any time.

Win Condition:

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me what your role name is or by posting in your private thread.

Welcome [playername] to Mini Normal XXXX! You are a

Mafia 1-shot Strongman

.

The other members of the

Mafia Faction

are X, a

Mafia Goon

, and Y, a

Mafia Universal Backup

.

In the night phase, a member of your faction is able to kill a player. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional private thread, located here, where you may talk at any time.

Once per game, at night, you may choose to instead carry out a Strongman night-kill, which cannot be blocked in any way. This ability may only be used once.

Win Condition:

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me what your role name is or by posting in your private thread.

Welcome [playername] to Mini Normal XXXX! You are a

Mafia Universal Backup

.

The other members of the

Mafia Faction

are X, a

Mafia 1-shot Strongman

, and Y, a

Mafia Goon

.

In the night phase, a member of your faction is able to kill a player. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional private thread, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You will inherit the role of the first Mafia power role who dies, losing this ability in the process.

Win Condition:

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by telling me what your role name is or by posting in your private thread.

[implosion]

Primary: mastina
Secondary: Ausuka

[mastina]

If this setup were all-goons I'd pass it as-is to be honest. The town has a lot of tools to deny scum their preferred kills, but they are all situational and gated in their own ways, with the weak hider being their only investigative tool.

But the 1x strongman is just too absurdly powerful here as it counters literally

every

town PR.

If you want the scum to have a power role, my suggestion would be to change it to be something completely different, and to compensate, to give the town a little extra in the form of an extra role that doesn't overwhelmingly shift the balance into their favor.

[Ausuka]

I think town here isn't like that powerful here in isolation but the roles have a lot of synergy in terms of like, when mafia make a kill it seems like there are a lot of reasons for things to go wrong. The roleblocker does not get that much info here but it still seems like it is helpful in terms of stopping kills and lategame. I agree with mastina that the strongman is absurdly strong enough to make this scum sided but I feel like it is town sided with just goons also?

I think the idea to give town something completely different is a good one tbh

[implosion]

Bump - Dannflor says he wants to pick this back up.

[mastina]

yo

[Ausuka]

hi

[Dannflor]

hi im back

[Dannflor]

so yeah the idea with this game is a game that a lot of town power is in the idea that the best town players might be able to survive longer than a normal game where scum just NKs the best two town players N1 and N2.

Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Town 1-shot Commuter
Town Bodyguard
Town 1-shot Bulletproof
Town Roleblocker
Town Weak 2-shot Hider

Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia 1-shot Neighborizer

I still like the idea of giving scum something. I'm not sure how strong neighborizer is considered to be? Or if the addition of another town role is necessary in that case? I added the commuter because I think it fits the theme but that might go too far in the direction of NK denial.

I have thought about giving mafia some information in the form of an Informed role. I am worried about the night play being *too* frustrating for scum to play

[Ausuka]

I mean i guess i just don't see how commuter and bulletproof and hider and even roleblocker accomplish protecting the best town players unless town is really lucky? i tend to think of roles like doc/watcher/maybe jk, and yes bodyguard, as being more suited to that purpose?

i do think this current setup would likely be frustrating to play as mafia sorry?

[Dannflor]

no sorry! I appreciate it idk really what I'm doing

I'll think for a bit and revamp this

[mastina]

When it comes to the setup in 8, I would say marginally townsided because scum have no counterplay and the town has a bunch of killstopper power. It would indeed be very unfun for the scum.

It's fine to have a lot of killstopper power, but if so, the killstopper power must be gated and/or the scum must have counterplay. The scum counterplay shouldn't completely nullify the killstoppers, nor should it be so worthless as to never help; the town should have gates which prevent them from shutting down the mafia entirely.

If the idea is for the best town players to live, then having protective roles suited to that would help. Babysitter, Bodyguard, Rolestopper, Alien, Jailkeeper, Doctor. The go-to counters for the scum would be a strongman and/or a roleblocker.

The best balance of roles/gates, I can give better feedback on when you give a revamp on.

[T-Bone]

Hi team, is this still an active review? Can a reviewer please summarize where we are?

[Ausuka]

As of 10 I believe Dannflor plans to submit a different/revamped setup at some point?

[T-Bone]

no sorry! I appreciate it idk really what I'm doing

I'll think for a bit and revamp this

Quoting Dann so he gets a notification!

[Dannflor]

thanks! working on this today

[Dannflor]

Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Roleblocker

Town Jailkeeper
Town JOAT (1-shot Doctor, 1-shot Tracker, 1-shot Vigilante)
Town Bodyguard
Town 2-Shot Watcher

6x VT

is this fun

[mastina]

I'm not sure about fun, but 16 looks balanced to me. If the scum lose their rb it'll be harder, but not a death sentence. JK is strong, but doesn't break the game unless two scum die. The gated nature of the other PRs means they won't have to worry long-term.

The TPRs are strong, but not too strong.

I'll let Ausuka chime in, but I'm okay with it.

[Ausuka]

Yeah i think 16 is probably better and seems fairly balanced

There's still an element of like, prs being difficult to kill for the scum I guess but that's sort of inherent to the idea of 'game with lots of protective roles'

Do you find the idea of a simple doctor or something like that objectionable?

[Dannflor]

in place of bodyguard?

[Dannflor]

I like that or making one or more of the PRs macho

[Dannflor]

Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Roleblocker

Town Lazy Jailkeeper
Town JOAT (1-shot Doctor, 1-shot Tracker, 1-shot Vigilante)
Town Bodyguard
Town Macho 2-Shot Watcher

6x VT

made jailkeeper lazy to help with swing

made watcher macho - but i'm open to simple bodyguard if that just seems better?

[Ausuka]

Yeah sure, if this is what you want I think this is a good application of that

[mastina]

Macho Watcher is fine to me, I think you're good setup-wise.

Just need role PMs, results, etc.

[Ausuka]

Hi - are we still doing this?

To be clear we're looking for Role PMs right now along with result PMs for the watcher and tracker