i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]

[Gamma Emerald]

I acknowledge I probably did a bad by interacting like that, however, I have a distinct issue with re-introducing myself in some situations, one which *certain* people are probably aware of.

[Ranger]

I specifically suggested the masonry

because that’s what mastina does

. So you were willing to exploit misconceptions about playing like mastina, but when I stole her gimmick you tried to snap my neck. Do you see how that comes off as shitty and manipulative?

Honestly, your descriptions of me "trying to snap [your] neck" are the only shitty manipulation I'm seeing.

You are not mastina, and playing like her was suspect because it was playing like mastina instead of playing like Gamma. My read was based off that. While I was scum and knew it came from town, a town-Ranger I felt would view the imitation as suspect.

Like, I fail to see how “I’m going to exploit misconceptions about my similarity to this person people might know me by BUT ALSO I’m going to disavow that identity at every turn and ruthlessly target someone for trying to do something in line with that identity” is a town mindset or a fair way to play in any universe!

I still don't understand why you think I was "ruthlessly targeting" you. I specified my read on you, believing your play was not indicative of typical town-Gamma (this was correct; you were channeling mastina). I specified I believed the diversion from town-Gamma was likely to come from a scum-Gamma (I knew this incorrect, but scum need to lie).

Pointing out an objective truth and forming a(n incorrect) subjective interpretation of the truth is the basis of scumplay; I don't understand your grievances of what was entirely an in-game stance.

I would also note you're correct it's not a town mindset. I

wasn't

town. I'll disavow the identity at every turn; as scum I had incentive to exploit the misconceptions. If people hold misconceptions after my disavowment, it's exploitable. Never correct your opponent when they are making a mistake; misconceptions are a mistake I've no reason to correct.

[kitten around]

Did I suck as much as I think I do?

I wouldn't be too harsh on yourself.

The dead had all the information. That gives them biases.

The dead were also dead largely because their deaths were more advantageous. You almost were among them. Almost dead means you did well enough.

You were working as the uninformed. You did not know the mechanic behind the scum, which influenced play across the game. You did not know where the message came from or if it was even real. You did not know where your double-vote came from. You had no way to even guess.

There's certainly ways you could have seen the furtive slot as scum without the information, but without the lens of information, you were unlikely to conclude furtiveglance was the most probable scum. furtive had interactions from an uninformed perspective appearing unlikely as partnered, in key areas such as attacking one flipped scum (McMenno). Knowing the scum mechanics you'd understand why, but since you couldn't gain that info, it appeared unaligned with flipped scum.

Not_Mafia made key misplays on both D1 and D3, with the D3 play directly tying him to flipped scum (me). From an uninformed perspective, these were suspect. Knowing the setup, it was clear he was given it while disloyal, but while you

could

have concluded this, it wasn't

proven

.

We also got amazingly lucky with all of the right players dying at the most opportune time.

[Gamma Emerald]

Whatever. My mind is made up atp.

[Ranger]

Whatever. My mind is made up atp.

That's your right. It's your life.

Perhaps later you'll have some self-reflection.

[furtiveglance]

Dead thread?

[xyzzy]

dead thread: viewtopic.php?p=13601430#p13601430
spectator thread: viewtopic.php?p=13587673#p13587673
lovers thread: viewtopic.php?p=13581745#p13581745
mafia thread: viewtopic.php?p=13581740#p13581740
other mafia thread: viewtopic.php?p=13581735#p13581735
neighborhood thread: viewtopic.php?p=13581751#p13581751

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I don't think you redacted enough posts, Enchant

[furtiveglance]

Dead thread powers seem a bit overpowered looking back at it now

Meh, no one bought it lol

I remember when Prince posted that and I thought it could bring us down...only for LLD to convincingly argue that it made us conftown!!!and I was like....I'm not sure we're QUITE confirmed but we basically are...lololol. It's like in business, she moved the goalposts so far that bringing us back to near conftown seemed reasonable from me. Maybe hydras are OP, who knows. I can see now that we had double the thread presence by virtue of being 2 users

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it would’ve been more fair if y’all were forced to post from a hydra account rather than posting on your mains? I feel like at least for me posting from a hydra can reduce thread presence, it depends on how I’m accessing it. Mobile definitely causes a marked thread presence reduction when on hydra.

[Ranger]

Then we kill in the hood ideally until it’s just mafia left then we can talk cooperate or betray.

I kinda want to turn our 10-person neighborhood into a PT that is exclusively the two scumteams, as to allow us to coordinate better.

I wish we could have a pt with the other team, we could totally rule the game, kind of like Survivor where we just vote all of the town out and if both teams stay intact we could actually just totally annihilate all the town. 6 united scum have a lot of power.

That's why we kill in the neighborhood (ideally CatScratchFever) so we get a scum neighborhood.

Do we have a thread connection to them to like
Talk to them, convince them into cooperating?

Not directly. There is the neighborhood. From that neighborhood, I signaled to MathBlade to choose cooperate. I mentioned the key phrase and signaled to him unambiguously, so he knows I want to choose cooperation.

My plan was to have the neighborhood be just scum alive so that tomorrow night, we could coordinate actions and orchestrate a tie.

I'm not sure what the math is for the scum death during

this

night. It wasn't supposed to happen until next night at the soonest.

I

knew

you had the same thought as me, MathBlade. <3

Glad you knew the strat to use.

I'm still so sorry about the betrayal; you did deserve to win, and should've if we all lived to N4.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think it would’ve been more fair if y’all were forced to post from a hydra account rather than posting on your mains? I feel like at least for me posting from a hydra can reduce thread presence, it depends on how I’m accessing it. Mobile definitely causes a marked thread presence reduction when on hydra.

I was told explicitly by the mods it was allowed so.

[Gamma Emerald]

Whatever. My mind is made up atp.

That's your right. It's your life.

Perhaps later you'll have some self-reflection.

I have reflected enough both recently and in the past.

I WILL ONLY SAY THIS ONCE.

I try to avoid lashing out except in cases I deem critical to survival. I did my best to keep myself in check this game, avoiding being drawn into a garbage-fire fight with Frogsterking. When it became my impression that you wanted to go low, I disengaged by quitting the game. Mathblade I have less ill will towards as he wasn’t around for the whole game. You meanwhile pushed me to near my breaking point, had I not left when I did I would have gone ballistic. And now you have the nerve to accuse me for simply speaking my mind?

I do not want you to speak ANOTHER WORD to me. We are DONE.

[Ranger]

I have reflected enough both recently and in the past.

That may be so. Your current posting still indicates you will later wish you had done some more.

I was staying completely within the game. I did not make things personal. I did not attack you. As far as I know, I treated you with respect. I checked the neighborhood posts now that I have access there and even there, my stance was respectful. I kept everything within the game. I did not insult you.

Your impression was wrong. I not once wanted to 'go low'. I still don't know why you think so.

I've asked you to point out what posts of mine were problematic. I did so because you obviously believe they were.

I can't improve my treatment of you if I don't know what I did wrong to you in the first place. I read my posts, repeatedly; I can't find anything crossing the line. I've read the neighborhood PT; I can't find anything crossing the line.

You believe I was problematic. But you have spewed vitriol in this stance the whole time, without actually pointing out to me where I was so. I have avoided accusing you of anything. I've pointed out your posts have been incredibly toxic, because they

have

been. Your language has been very accusatory and harsh. You've called me 'shitty', you've called me 'manipulative'.

Near as I can tell

, I was none of that. I'm not infallible in self-reflection, so I know I might have missed something I did which was unacceptable. Asking where I went wrong and what I can do better isn't an unreasonable request. As far as I could tell, I kept things entirely in-game. What actions pushed you to near your breaking point? What actions made you go near-ballistic? The things I said were entirely normal things to say, as far as I know.

Even here, you are being aggressive in saying I am accusing you. You are certainly speaking your mind, but the way you have done so is certainly worse than anything I could have done.

I feel I've not disrespected you. I feel I've engaged with diplomacy and openness. I've stated a willingness to learn and improve, a willingness to be shown what I did which you felt was over the line, which you felt got too personal/insulting/etc.

You have kept the hostility up for a perceived hostility, but

I still have no idea what it was

.

As far as I can tell

, I never once accused you of anything outside of specifying I felt your play was antitown and more likely to come from scum. Those are certainly not anything over the line. Yet you believe I did something which crossed a line. Given I can't see it, I have tried to engage you on what it was.

You said I was 'immensely shitty' after calling you scum or bad town. I don't think I actually did even this? I specified actions were pro-scum regardless of alignment, but those say nothing of your skill; every town player makes pro-scum actions when pushing any player not scum. (This might be unclear, so to explain this concept with an example: Frogsterking flipped town, so inherently, every town player on his elimination was pro-scum. This does nothing to make them bad town. Town make +scum actions all the time regardless of skill.) You yourself noted I was not passing the buck on you.

You have accused me at every stage of having crossed some line, of having done something unforgiveable, of having done something that was unacceptable. I've no doubt of your sincerity in this belief. So I've asked you

where

. I can't fix an issue I can't see. You stated I was hostile; near as I can tell, I was not, so I asked where. You stated I was ruthlessly targeting you. I've reviewed my posts and I can't see how, so I asked where. I don't understand the source of your hostility. I don't doubt you have it; I believe you do. You've stated I verbally assaulted you. I looked for what that could've been, couldn't find it, and asked you where you saw it.

You have stated it was mental torture, and it is apparent that you were mentally tortured. I believe you. I agree being mentally tortured is not okay. So any behavior of mine which was out of line, needs to be improved. So

where was it

? You saw it, but I don't see it. That is all I am asking. To be shown where it was I went too far in your eyes.

I've reread my neighborhood posts a second time in the process of writing this. The only thing I can find is 269. If this was the post, then I can understand the grievance. It was very poorly worded on my end. That was a mistake. I certainly shouldn't word things that way. I will not make a post like 269 again.

Was there anywhere else? I've demonstrated I

am

searching, I've demonstrated I

am

looking. I can say I certainly did not intend for 269 to be over any line, but I see why it would be perceived so with the poor wording choice. I should not have said 'lack of integrity'. That wording did not convey my intended in-game meaning and I understand why it'd be seen as an out-of-game attack. I definitely can find a better way to state my point. (The intent was essentially, 'arguing in this specific way with an agenda'. Arguing that way doesn't guarantee a scum alignment but is +scum, because scum have agendas more than town and need to paint a certain picture. I can word it better in the future.)

Did I miss anywhere else I can improve?

[Gamma Emerald]

I could try to relay which posts bothered me at this point but instead I’ll say this
You might have a point, but I honestly would rather just move well past this. Can we just agree that in term of you and me, this game never happened?

[Ranger]

I try not to carry past games into future ones, so that is agreeable.

[Gamma Emerald]

aight

[Prince of Paterson]

What happened with KittyTacky? If he had claimed the message he received I believe town would have won. Was there a mod error, or did he not notice the message?

[T-Bone]

Think this game was good? Head to the 2023 Scummies nomination thread located here and nominate your favorite thing about this game! There are over a dozen categories! Maybe next year's winner happened here?