i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]

[Lady Lambdadelta]

okie ty

[tris]

hi

[xyzzy]

viewtopic.php?p=13581686#p13581686 mod thread

[xyzzy]

I think at one point I was planning on releasing the flavor text for players who died but I forgot. so now you can read all of those

[furtiveglance]

Damn I forgot I had that vanillaiser ability - I guess it wouldn't have done anything anyway.

Also, did KittyTacky mention the furtiveglance/Ranger message?

I can't believe we didn't just get outted by the dead thread LMFAO

[Frogsterking]

Did I suck as much as I think I do?

I don't think so, you might be too hard on yourself though. Listening to Phoenix was worse than a mistake; it was a blunder. That doesn't make you stupid or a bad player at all though, it just means you blundered. Usually blunders are caused by emotions disrupting our thoughts I think rather than having bad thoughts to begin with. So being too hard on yourself would be my guess yeah.

[Gamma Emerald]

Rereading the hood I realize I almost had Ranger entire team nailed to the cross at one point
Note to self: Ranger playing belligerently hostile is an admission of guilt, and a dead ringer that you’re on the right track.

[Ranger]

Clearly

, the mods sent me the wrong role PM. There was

certainly

no way I could make up a claim like I did from scratch, right? Lying is against my mafia religion,

obviously

. Even if it weren't, my inexperience lying means there's

no way

I could invent a full lie,

for sure

.

Naturally

, it must've been mod error.

I don't know what

possibly

could have caused a N2 failure for the vend;

surely

I'd tell the truth, yes? I

definitely

received the role and results I claimed. Lying isn't a skill scum need,

undoubtedly

.

:P

[Ranger]

Clearly

, the mods sent me the wrong role PM. There was

certainly

no way I could make up a claim like I did from scratch, right? Lying is against my mafia religion,

obviously

. Even if it weren't, my inexperience lying means there's

no way

I could invent a full lie,

for sure

.

Naturally

, it must've been mod error.

I don't know what

possibly

could have caused a N2 failure for the vend;

surely

I'd tell the truth, yes? I

definitely

received the role and results I claimed. Lying isn't a skill scum need,

undoubtedly

.

:P

For those who don't get the sarcasm, let me make it clear;
I've been lying since my very first werewolf game, predating my time on mafiascum.

Scum lie; telling the truth is a weakness. There's certain lies which're unethical; as long as none crossing lines are made, anything goes.

If this stance seems out of place for your perspective on my mafia worldview, let me be clear;
I am not mastina, nor an alt of her.
Exploiting erroneous assumptions I am I don't consider unethical. I'll tell the truth when need be; I'll lie otherwise.

[Ranger]

Mafia deserved this win after such incompetency.

I feel you're being overly harsh.

You had all the information; the living did not.

The dead knew who the last scum were, what the dead thread mechanics were, and what the scum mechanics were.

The living knew none of these.

A message not clear in origin not conveying two of those three was something the uninformed had every reason to doubt.

LLD was quite correct; the sent message specifying scum wasn't the instant solve you believed, given the above.

[Ranger]

The part that I wanted to reread was your interactions with Ranger specifically. My memory had Ranger not seeming that concerned about dying and also you not pushing as hard for her death as I'd expect given your read on her. I was busy and didn't have time yet to confirm that, unfortunately.

Well, I couldn't stop the kill on me; I had a partner alive. Regardless of who the partner was, that'd have applied. The push not being as hard was certainly valid in my opinion though.

[Ranger]

If say we'd tried to lim Ranger D3, would that have resulted in the ??? phase coming before that night phase rather than after?

It sure would have, but I had my claim ready from N1. Even had my reread efforts not bore fruit, my claim would've prevented an elimination by any means except the execute N_M used on Lycanfire. Even those scumreading me had good reason to let me live after I claimed.

The only major thing that bothers me about my performance is that I didn't listen to George D1. They had a great read on Ranger and I pretty much blew them off. Next time I want to be more flexible in my reads when I see good posts coming out from a quiet slot.

I'd caution against it; there was good reason for blowing the read off. You may recall D1 ended before GeorgeBailey responded to me.

Both the D1/D3 speed-eliminations badly hurt the town and benefited

most

of the scum, yet their timing actually was frustrating and detrimental to me. I

wanted

GeorgeBailey to engage me, so his reasons for scumreading me would either fall apart from a double-down or be reassessed. I

wanted

to engage Lycanfire and similarly cause Lycan to reconsider.

There were tangible benefits given to the scum from those eliminations, and I did what I could to spin them to my favor. I still was miffed my subjects of engagement were removed prior to finishing talks.

[Ranger]

Ffs. No town in their right mind should have FoSed us.

I feel this is also unfair to the uninformed.

Even I as scum had reason to

genuinely

suspect you. My suspicion came from an

informed

position; from an

uninformed

perspective, there was even

more

reason to doubt your information.

imaginality's play was lackluster; you didn't try to defend imaginality by play; your claim was suspect given the mechanics scum knew to be in place (I didn't believe masons could exist in a nightless white flag game where only two scum would be alive); your meta worked against you as you have a reputation for lying about claims of this nature; you changed your claim multiple times; the late night of your claimed actions was suspect; Frogsterking's role and two kills per night implied serial killer (even though scum knew both kills were from scum).

A town not blindly believing a suspect claim from suspect players is certainly not something I would place blame on them for.

[furtiveglance]

Dead Thread, Dead Thread

[Ranger]

Did I suck as much as I think I do?

I wouldn't be too harsh on yourself.

The dead had all the information. That gives them biases.

The dead were also dead largely because their deaths were more advantageous. You almost were among them. Almost dead means you did well enough.

You were working as the uninformed. You did not know the mechanic behind the scum, which influenced play across the game. You did not know where the message came from or if it was even real. You did not know where your double-vote came from. You had no way to even guess.

There's certainly ways you could have seen the furtive slot as scum without the information, but without the lens of information, you were unlikely to conclude furtiveglance was the most probable scum. furtive had interactions from an uninformed perspective appearing unlikely as partnered, in key areas such as attacking one flipped scum (McMenno). Knowing the scum mechanics you'd understand why, but since you couldn't gain that info, it appeared unaligned with flipped scum.

Not_Mafia made key misplays on both D1 and D3, with the D3 play directly tying him to flipped scum (me). From an uninformed perspective, these were suspect. Knowing the setup, it was clear he was given it while disloyal, but while you

could

have concluded this, it wasn't

proven

.

[Ranger]

Rereading the hood I realize I almost had Ranger entire team nailed to the cross at one point
Note to self: Ranger playing belligerently hostile is an admission of guilt, and a dead ringer that you’re on the right track.

You're free to believe what you will.
I'll say your reads had nothing to do with my play.

I pushed you because it was a believable push for me to make.
Note when I say 'believable', I don't mean opportunistic. (I certainly won't say no to convenient pushes, but my push wasn't motivated/driven by convenience.) I simply mean scum--as the informed minority--must lie in at least

some

of their reads, and whatever lies they tell must be believable.

I was informed and thus knew you weren't likely scum. Yet, I believed a town-Ranger would genuinely suspect you. Obviously, I

could

have been mistaken about a town-Ranger suspecting you. It doesn't matter, because it didn't need to be accurate to a town-Ranger; it only needed to be

believable

as town-Ranger. The meta was there to support the scumread.

For proof, Frogsterking was town, and suspected you strongly. If a town-Frogsterking believed you scum by meta, then this indicates your play had elements at least one town player thought suspect. I believe a town-Ranger would have aligned with Frogsterking's view and shared the meta scumread on you. (Notably, my stance was not sheeping Frogsterking; I developed the stance prior to his push.) Frogsterking was wrong, and I knew I was. You knew those reads were wrong. I knew it likely wrong. However, neither Frogsterking or a town-Ranger would

know

it wrong.

This aside from how I'm genuinely baffled where you see hostility in my posts at all. There certainly was none intended. I've read my posts and can't figure out where you even see it in the first place.

[xyzzy]

waiting on one player who requested re-entry to a PT to review whether any posts need to be redacted. once I get a response, I'll unlock all of those.

[McMenno]

Clearly

, the mods sent me the wrong role PM. There was

certainly

no way I could make up a claim like I did from scratch, right? Lying is against my mafia religion,

obviously

. Even if it weren't, my inexperience lying means there's

no way

I could invent a full lie,

for sure

.

Naturally

, it must've been mod error.

I don't know what

possibly

could have caused a N2 failure for the vend;

surely

I'd tell the truth, yes? I

definitely

received the role and results I claimed. Lying isn't a skill scum need,

undoubtedly

.

For those who don't get the sarcasm, let me make it clear;
I've been lying since my very first werewolf game, predating my time on mafiascum.

Scum lie; telling the truth is a weakness. There's certain lies which're unethical; as long as none crossing lines are made, anything goes.

If this stance seems out of place for your perspective on my mafia worldview, let me be clear;
I am not mastina, nor an alt of her.
Exploiting erroneous assumptions I am I don't consider unethical. I'll tell the truth when need be; I'll lie otherwise.

...what?

[Gamma Emerald]

sigh

[Gamma Emerald]

Clearly

, the mods sent me the wrong role PM. There was

certainly

no way I could make up a claim like I did from scratch, right? Lying is against my mafia religion,

obviously

. Even if it weren't, my inexperience lying means there's

no way

I could invent a full lie,

for sure

.

Naturally

, it must've been mod error.

I don't know what

possibly

could have caused a N2 failure for the vend;

surely

I'd tell the truth, yes? I

definitely

received the role and results I claimed. Lying isn't a skill scum need,

undoubtedly

.

For those who don't get the sarcasm, let me make it clear;
I've been lying since my very first werewolf game, predating my time on mafiascum.

Scum lie; telling the truth is a weakness. There's certain lies which're unethical; as long as none crossing lines are made, anything goes.

If this stance seems out of place for your perspective on my mafia worldview, let me be clear;
I am not mastina, nor an alt of her.
Exploiting erroneous assumptions I am I don't consider unethical. I'll tell the truth when need be; I'll lie otherwise.

I specifically suggested the masonry

because that’s what mastina does

. So you were willing to exploit misconceptions about playing like mastina, but when I stole her gimmick you tried to snap my neck. Do you see how that comes off as shitty and manipulative?

[Gamma Emerald]

Like, I fail to see how “I’m going to exploit misconceptions about my similarity to this person people might know me by BUT ALSO I’m going to disavow that identity at every turn and ruthlessly target someone for trying to do something in line with that identity” is a town mindset or a fair way to play in any universe!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Clearly

, the mods sent me the wrong role PM. There was

certainly

no way I could make up a claim like I did from scratch, right? Lying is against my mafia religion,

obviously

. Even if it weren't, my inexperience lying means there's

no way

I could invent a full lie,

for sure

.

Naturally

, it must've been mod error.

I don't know what

possibly

could have caused a N2 failure for the vend;

surely

I'd tell the truth, yes? I

definitely

received the role and results I claimed. Lying isn't a skill scum need,

undoubtedly

.

For those who don't get the sarcasm, let me make it clear;
I've been lying since my very first werewolf game, predating my time on mafiascum.

Scum lie; telling the truth is a weakness. There's certain lies which're unethical; as long as none crossing lines are made, anything goes.

If this stance seems out of place for your perspective on my mafia worldview, let me be clear;
I am not mastina, nor an alt of her.
Exploiting erroneous assumptions I am I don't consider unethical. I'll tell the truth when need be; I'll lie otherwise.

I specifically suggested the masonry

because that’s what mastina does

. So you were willing to exploit misconceptions about playing like mastina, but when I stole her gimmick you tried to snap my neck. Do you see how that comes off as shitty and manipulative?

So what you're saying is that two alters in the same system have similar but not identical playstyles, who are willing to when people use that misconception to try and read them don't disavow it because it's against their wincon as scum, but might be uncomfortable with other people trying to emulate who they are because it's one thing for an alter in a system to emulate their internal family and another for an external system to try and do the same?

I'm not sure where the manipulation comes in outside of playing to wincon within a game, to be honest with you. None of this seems particularly out of pocket.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean, if I made 13 accounts for all my alters I would like 1) For people to recognize me as our individual selves 2)to be able to utilize the skills that the other alters have helped us learn through the years and 3) for people not to bite the bits and stylings of my other sisters?

[Gamma Emerald]

Uhhh okay?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Good glad we agree.