Does the nsg tell work?

[Frogsterking]

When/when not? Is the nsg tell related to RVS at all?

[Lycanfire]

What's the nsg tell? Is there a topic or game example you could share? Really interested in this. Thanks

[Frogsterking]

What's the nsg tell? Is there a topic or game example you could share? Really interested in this. Thanks

Yeah I can actually. I asked around:

So originally I noted it as an empirical thing that it was quite common for scum to react more awkwardly to jokes or to entirely miss them. I'd say scum players are also more likely to make jokes in contexts that feel somewhat weird if you track what kind of emotional state they're portraying at any given time, especially wrt scum pretending to be angry and throwing jokes in. I definitely think that the tell is empirically true, in terms of an explanation for why it's true it's probably a mix of general scum awkwardness and the way scum read town posts. As a general rule when you're scum reading town posts you're very focused on the 'what' of posts, so to speak. You don't really need to track tone or anything like town players do when they read, and scum do broadly speaking tend to make cases/defenses more focused on concrete stuff like read prog than tone. When a player misses an obvious joke and they aren't someone who continually misses obvious jokes it means they read your post very superficially but also responded to it, and I feel that while town do read some posts very superficially it doesn't tend to be ones that they end up responding to, unless your joke is embedded in a gigantic wall of text.

Idk about [scum being more likely to misinterpret jokes], it’s pretty much nia for me. I’m far more suspicious of anyone who would push me for that reason. Some of these “tells” you need to take with a grain of salt and go by your experience more. Like a lot of people think having a strong reaction to being pushed is a tell when it really isn’t. What I would say could be accurate about jokes in general is that scum are a lot less likely to engage in them period. Town is in general a lot more relaxed, where as scum tends to be dead serious because they need to obviously be a lot more careful. If someone seems to be bizarrely bummed about their role, it may be because it isn’t town but I did see town upset about that once. So engaging in light banter and seeming more carefree are generally reliable towntells. The main thing I look for is the prevalence or lack of nuanced thinking as well as logical thought progression.

There is a fair bit to unpack from the above quotes and I'll post some more of my thoughts later if I feel up to it.

Apparently I miscalled it the nsg tell when it's application predates the actual user northsidegal. RVS was adopted as site meta to increase engagement--something else I asked RadiantCowbells--and my theory is that RVS being chosen culturally as site meta

caused

the "nsg tell" to be noticed by a variety of players over time and emerge as different names. Here's another example of "nsg tell" being discovered as a tell: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=79490 I've noticed this as well and I believe it to be a valid but imprecise application/description of the overall pattern in activity predicting a scum flip.

This is where I first noticed what I thought was the "nsg tell" while rereading my own games:

A trick containing a trump is won by the hand playing the highest trump. A trick not containing a trump is won by the hand playing the highest card of the suit led. The winner of each trick leads next.

Wrong game >.>
~

Ok mostly caught up, thoughts of note:

- i still dont like how defensive dats is rn but i'm beginning to wonder if my dislike of his early vote is coloring everything else, excited to see what he says later
- i dont like hem's continued reasons for scumreading ari in that he's focusing solely on her to the detriment of forming other reads or having other interactions. Also to continue justifying his scumread on ari he's applying a standard to her that he isnt really applying to other people (he's objecting to ari's readlist because how could anyone have reads at that time, when multiple other people were forming large early readslists, like yeet for example)
- i like vpb, fire, ari, yeet, tenebro, possibly deasvail
- i additionally dislike fua, nero, eyes
- this thing with nordam is probably a miscommunication/having different priorities to sort people. I dont really get what he's asking but probably isnt scummy
- dont think wu has really done anything to justify the pushes/votes on him that we couldnt easily alply to like four other slots as well

Ok later!

there are way too many people being useless with their votes.


VOTE: skitter30

yes, plz elaborate on how i'm being useless with my vote in the second post of the game

Did you actually think that

I think that bunch of players that

haven't even gotten on to post are actually being useless with their vote?

i mean i'm not voting you yet
what are you trying to say/do here exactly?

i originally thought u were talking abt me/fire (as you voted me), what does the bolded mean?

Skitter is scum in both games (different games) and in both posts is demonstrating the "nsg tell." More accurately than calling it the "nsg tell", these are two examples of scum interpreting something seriously because of their serious state of mind while scum posting versus town posting.

If you read RC's quote carefully you'll see it suggests there is a "reverse-nsg tell" in that scum crack a joke which is unlike the character they are presenting at the time. For that have an example (I think:)

if people wanna really believe this kid's lies and obviously contrived bullshit then im done with yall im not going to try and u can vote me out lmfao. yall dont deserve me

"Frustrated scum ate" or "reverse-nsg tell"

While RVS is just intended to increase engagement, chances for scum to make this mistake seem to occur frequently as a result of RVS. It also seems like there are opportunities to exploit this straight out of RVS and create chances for scum to mess this up, like Nero does to skitter in post 9 above.

[shiki]

this is going to give an impossible number of false positives - far far too many to be considered any type of 'tell'

from the posts you've given i am not even sure it is applicable to skitter let alone anyone else

(how has skitter reacted to similar 'jokes' as town - does this apply to all 'jokes' of this sort skitter has encountered as mafia or only the above, et cetera)

also i have read all of large normal 241, and have now reread the section you quoted, and i still do not understand what nero cain's 'joke' was supposed to be or why that would be funny to post and such

and i find it nearly impossible to believe that town's win percentage would improve if townies started treating more miscommunications and face value interpretations of others' posts as scum indicative

english is not the first language of many players among many other reasons players may interpret the same post differently

like i am probably not mafia at work everyday so 'missing' jokes or whatever probably isn't particularly mafia indicative

obvious jokes are not obvious to everyone

and players find enough reasons to scumread eachother for the way their brains work we really really do not need to be trying to codify things like 'not getting jokes' as scum indicative

shrug

[MathBlade]

So then I am always scum as I am on the spectrum. Needless to say I object.

I think this “tell” requires you to know players and therefore isn’t a “tell”

[Isis]

I think reactions to humor can be used to read people if you combine that person's baseline sense of humor with how good the misunderstood joke was and etc.

If you made a robot that limmed people everytime they misunderstood jokes it'd probably be like 51/49 accurate, not really accurate.

A lot of players who consistently misread eachother don't riff on eachother well even t-t. It's more likely to hammer in already correct reads. And if you're heavily pressuring town there's still some false positives.

I can't agree it's so many false positives that cognizance of the concept can't improve town WR but it's probably more difficult to use than say iioa

[skitter30]

Skitter is scum in both games (different games) and in both posts is demonstrating the "nsg tell." More accurately than calling it the "nsg tell", these are two examples of scum interpreting something seriously because of their serious state of mind while scum posting versus town posting

I mean i kinda object to this conclusion

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

skitter doesn't laugh at my jokes when she's town either

[Firebringer]

skitter doesn't actually laugh at most jokes at least i can't remember skitter ever responding to a post with any variation of "lol"
but maybe thats just me unable to make her laugh as well

[skitter30]

Lol

[Prism]

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

northsidegal I think those are supposed to be Yu-Gi-Oh! references or something but I generally only play Bejeweled Twist and when I was a kid that game where someone throws a brick directly up and you all run in a circle and try to dodge without looking so this is all over my head sorry

prism i just want to say that you make me laugh sometimes

skitter was town here, tell obviously works, use it to read her every game it's free. Maybe we even rename it the skitter-tell since it works so well on her.

[Frogsterking]

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!

northsidegal I think those are supposed to be Yu-Gi-Oh! references or something but I generally only play Bejeweled Twist and when I was a kid that game where someone throws a brick directly up and you all run in a circle and try to dodge without looking so this is all over my head sorry

prism i just want to say that you make me laugh sometimes

skitter was town here, tell obviously works, use it to read her every game it's free. Maybe we even rename it the skitter-tell since it works so well on her.

[fireisredsir]

don't worry that was just a joke for the other people who were in that game

^

fire no matter your alignment i love your sense of humor

this was also town skitter. the tell works

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

don't worry that was just a joke for the other people who were in that game

^

fire no matter your alignment i love your sense of humor

this was also town skitter. the tell works

[Firebringer]

too bad my name isn't firesird or prism to make this tell work for me.
maybe i should take notes