HMS Mutiny [Game Over]

[Killing Joke]

@HPE, while you're here can you post the full reads list I've been kindly asking for?

Also, did you do a Tarot reading yet for Titus since she drew a Black Spot?

@all

If I missed things you asked I'm not intentionally ignoring you, if you @me again I'll respond to you next.

@Eiralox

Can you elaborate on your reads

[HighPrincessErinys]

@HPE, while you're here can you post the full reads list I've been kindly asking for?

Also, did you do a Tarot reading yet for Titus since she drew a Black Spot?

Titus (duh)
Flea
Bella
Gamma, ActionDan
Eiralox
--Yonder Neutral Line--
Gimli
BBT
Radical Rat, Enchant
--Yonder Scum Line--
Malakittens, kinda? Eh.
Killing Joke, Elements. Killing one will probably exonerate the other imho


This one will draw a card for Titus after it lays down for a spell. No pun intended.

[Killing Joke]

@HPE, while you're here can you post the full reads list I've been kindly asking for?

Also, did you do a Tarot reading yet for Titus since she drew a Black Spot?

Titus (duh)
Flea
Bella
Gamma, ActionDan
Eiralox
--Yonder Neutral Line--
Gimli
BBT
Radical Rat, Enchant
--Yonder Scum Line--
Malakittens, kinda? Eh.
Killing Joke, Elements. Killing one will probably exonerate the other imho


This one will draw a card for Titus after it lays down for a spell. No pun intended.

IDK, your solve is Malakittens, Killing Joke, Elements? That sounds a little hokey. Where is the evidence FMPOV that you've been solving?

Also, why do you think that Gamma, ActionDan and Elements are resisting my request for them to post a full reads list?

[Bellaphant]

@nancy, you were right, I got the names muddled X

[Bellaphant]

...that's reads list might actually just be scum . That's disappointing

[Bellaphant]

Bellla just made her way into a town-lean.

Cool, y?

[Gimli]

ok saving myself some digging effort for today, my body is once again hating me (as is my bank tbh but EH)

... damnit I can't resize these textboxes?!

*grumble*

thank gods for tiles I guess.

1) Valid plan, the claim implies there is additional information and from how the claim is constructed there is an implication of additional data, so if Elly is alive when fullclaim happens, she goes first. Her data cannot be faked at that point and if there's too many dead folk in the list she's the priority for the cannon yeeting.

2) I know how parity and vanilla cops work. And this is where something has pinged me. There's no way to determine KJ's alignment from that check and the conviction it was said with threw me a little. The result seems to be both were 'nilla. I need to double check that at some point.

3) Botched night actions happen. Doesn't matter your experience. Personally KJ's claim stunk more than the poop deck on curry night and didn't need to be checked but the confirmation that Joker is truely the king of the poop deck is nice to have. It is also one of those roles where if you are not mechanically minded it's easy to botch. I don't know Elly's mechanical capability, so I can't judge on that.

You mean the n1 soft don’t you, the vt one has been proven by two players now and one of those is confitown. And what do you have against curry ? lol

I was just thinking you might possibly have townslipped earlier but if you seriously believe my true claim is bad, maybe that’s premature?

Starting to once again doubt my read on you. Both Titus and Elements confirmed different things. both adding up with our vt claim. so honestly no clue what to make of this totally bizarro read on our claim, if you ARE referring to my vt claim?

~Harley

This is why I'm not TRing you.
This isn't even discussing your slot and yet you've tried to slide the "we're conftown" in here.
You are not proven vanilla town. You are proven vanilla. That is all you have.

I have nothing against curry, but I have IBS and it has everything against me.

They are NOT proven vanilla. That's why I think elements botched the claim. She doesn't get a "vanilla" result, she gets a "same" result. Could be vanilla, could be two PRs. She is making a mechanical read that it's most likely vanillas and not PRs... Allegedly.

Anyway I have no motivation to go after elly anymore, but it's important to know that a parity vanilla cop will not get a "two vanilla" two pr" "one vanilla one or" type results. Just same or different, no discrimination of whether it's same pr or same vanilla, and yet she completely bought the part of KJ's claim that say they were vanilla.

[Aisa]

2.12

Votecount 2.12

HighPrincessErinys (5):

Titus, Gamma Emerald, BlueBloodedToffee, Gimli, Elements.

Gimli (2):

Malakittens, Flea The Magician.

Eiralox (1):

Radical Rat.

Not Voting (6):

Enchant, Bellaphant, ActionDan, HighPrincessErinys, Eiralox, Killing Joke.

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 to eliminate someone.

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2023-01-29 17:30:00).

Mod Notes

• Combined Mod ISO
  
• Gimli and Bellaphant are on V/LA

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Too many people not voting.

[Gamma Emerald]

Like are we really calling that hpe wagon pure? One scum in enchant/Titus 100%

Bad take
Enchant clearly retracted

[HighPrincessErinys]

@HPE, while you're here can you post the full reads list I've been kindly asking for?

Also, did you do a Tarot reading yet for Titus since she drew a Black Spot?

Titus (duh)
Flea
Bella
Gamma, ActionDan
Eiralox
--Yonder Neutral Line--
Gimli
BBT
Radical Rat, Enchant
--Yonder Scum Line--
Malakittens, kinda? Eh.
Killing Joke, Elements. Killing one will probably exonerate the other imho


This one will draw a card for Titus after it lays down for a spell. No pun intended.

IDK, your solve is Malakittens, Killing Joke, Elements? That sounds a little hokey. Where is the evidence FMPOV that you've been solving?

Also, why do you think that Gamma, ActionDan and Elements are resisting my request for them to post a full reads list?

What do you mean by that question? Are you asking for this one to elaborate or is that a rhetorical question?
Confidentiality probably, also. This one would like to see read lists in general from them (esp Elements) but it thinks its kinda inevitable that some people will keep some reads close to their chest for a while. So, eh. Squeezing Elements for all she's worth as well as YOU is what this one would like to see most before it drops dead.


As for Titus's card:

Two of Wands

- Future planning, progress, decisions, discovery.

Yeah this makes quite a bit of sense considering Tracker. No comment on 'future planning' on someone who's destined to die at the end of the day.

[Gamma Emerald]

^ is lock town for me btw.

WHY

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ll post my read list when I’m back on PC
both players I was waiting to figure out (Bella and Mala) look kinda bad to me rn

[Eiralox]

VOTE: Radical Rat

Yup.

Show me a better vote and I'll show you a barnacle in a top hat.

[Killing Joke]

I am insisting on Princess and BBT today as of now.

Have you considered ActionDan?

Can you make an effort to explain what drew your attention to Princess and BBT? I know it has to do with some combination of NKA and VCA.

Frog did a lickerts scale early and basically seemed to realise I liked nice people so was nice and eira had a role where she could message people over night, but it was a scum role: I was totally pocketed for two day phases on eira, and frog had claimed Dr - this also makes me wary of eliming/not eliming by mech rather than play, as in my last game with rats and Nancy, I wcun read both of them day one but both claimed prs and got further than they should have in their play.

I want to ask frog in particular why they pooh-poohed my critic of the stale wagons?

I think the particular line of reasoning that was used "scum must be happy with gamestate because thread is quiet" is anti town. In hindsight I realize you had a point about the wagons being suboptimal. I think I should have asked you why you didn't think the existing wagons were a good idea, I think I missed an opportunity to collaborate by not asking you and Mala about your reads EoD 1. I agree on principle that deeply considering four different candidates is a good approach D1 for Town and maybe D2, etc. as well, so I think I definitely misplayed in that way too by failing to bring up common ground wrt where you expressed interest in taking the game. I guess in summary I believe that the specific suggestion you and Dragons made was anti town and my being on tunnel vision and missing opportunities to collaborate were both anti town.

Which low activity slots do you think have the highest chance of flipping scum, Bella?

@HPE, while you're here can you post the full reads list I've been kindly asking for?

Also, did you do a Tarot reading yet for Titus since she drew a Black Spot?

Titus (duh)
Flea
Bella
Gamma, ActionDan
Eiralox
--Yonder Neutral Line--
Gimli
BBT
Radical Rat, Enchant
--Yonder Scum Line--
Malakittens, kinda? Eh.
Killing Joke, Elements. Killing one will probably exonerate the other imho


This one will draw a card for Titus after it lays down for a spell. No pun intended.

IDK, your solve is Malakittens, Killing Joke, Elements? That sounds a little hokey. Where is the evidence FMPOV that you've been solving?

Also, why do you think that Gamma, ActionDan and Elements are resisting my request for them to post a full reads list?

What do you mean by that question? Are you asking for this one to elaborate or is that a rhetorical question?
Confidentiality probably, also. This one would like to see read lists in general from them (esp Elements) but it thinks its kinda inevitable that some people will keep some reads close to their chest for a while. So, eh. Squeezing Elements for all she's worth as well as YOU is what this one would like to see most before it drops dead.


As for Titus's card:

Two of Wands

- Future planning, progress, decisions, discovery.

Yeah this makes quite a bit of sense considering Tracker. No comment on 'future planning' on someone who's destined to die at the end of the day.

Yes I want you to explain why you think the scum team is Elements, our slot and Malakittens because that theory sounds really janky and I want to hear your rationale.

VOTE: Radical Rat

Yup.

Show me a better vote and I'll show you a barnacle in a top hat.

Why here instead of ActionDan? Do you Town read BBT and HPE?

[Eiralox]

I know there's scum in KJ/Flea/Elements.

Rat seems to be aligned with them. One major pointer: Them never questioning Harley's read on Eira, them not so much as trying to push me. They didn't expect Passenger to die. Poorly adjusted when they did. More later.

[Killing Joke]

I know there's scum in KJ/Flea/Elements.

Rat seems to be aligned with them. One major pointer: Them never questioning Harley's read on Eira, them not so much as trying to push me. They didn't expect Passenger to die. Poorly adjusted when they did. More later.

It's Elements.

What if I told you that I suspect you and Rat are TvT? Are you open to flipping your read on Rat?

[Eiralox]

I have 10 posts left. My answer is: We'll see.

[Eiralox]

By the by, if Elements is scum Harley sure do trust their results, and role, a lot. Saying Elements scum and using their unproven result for two soft innos in the same breath is whack.

I'll make my casing posts explaining who and where whenever I get the time.

[Killing Joke]

By the by, if Elements is scum Harley sure do trust their results, and role, a lot. Saying Elements scum and using their unproven result for two soft innos in the same breath is whack.

I'll make my casing posts explaining who and where whenever I get the time.

Um . . . like hello, we’re a hydra in case you forgot. We ARE double SOFT-inno’d TOWN/VT here.

You made a grouping of us/Flea/Elements as having one scum. I KNOW with 1,000,000% that it ain’t us and I really believe Flea’s probably also town. So if there’s scum in that group, it’s Elements and we’re still town. we’re still vt regardless and like I already said, I think Flea probably is as well.

~Harley NOT Joker - please get it right already, kthanx

[Radical Rat]

I know I'm not in danger right now, but is there an easier way to see how many posts we've used? So far I have just been trusting myself not to go over (and I'm clearly not in danger yet since total posts aren't even at the day limit), but I don't expect that to be viable forever...

[Radical Rat]

Anyway...

Malakittens seems pretty Town by play, but setup spec reasons point toward the claim being fake, which is why I jumped on her earlier, as explained at the time. It still makes me uneasy, but I'm not as confident on it as I was at the time because if I'm wrong about Elements being Town, or the setup is just weirder than anticipated, then I'm probably wrong here as well.

HPE's interaction with StD was really bad. StD saying he meant a slightly ambiguous sentence one way and HPE just... absolutely refusing to entertain the idea. I interpreted it as scum trying to force a misrep to happen since there wasn't anything legitimate to push StD over. And then just a general sense of it not doing anything that stands out as Town.

Gimli, I was wrong about the order of things, but I do still think the post about StD being a foregone conclusion is damning. There's the post Joker loves bringing up that proves I'm a traitor where I call out Gimli for acting like he has a strong influence over the game, which I think suggests there's a team behind him. And there's the whole attitude here, I just don't believe he's arguing in good faith about uh... Anything.

Eiralox was an early FoS because he wanted a No Lim, which only helps scum, especially with delayed kills, and then since then has been giving similar vibes of just... not acting in good faith. And then the whole mess with him DESPERATELY wanting to know who Elements' target was... it's just bad all around.

[Bellaphant]

@kj, probably action Dan! I'm not convinced on gimli, hes got like twice as many posts as me Ans I can't remember his takes? I'm not loving how elements has handled the claim. Like I said, I don't want to touch enchant yet?

I don't know about mala, I think RR is town And I do think eira is town by play. Aftee hpes readlist my conviction crumbled on then being town. I'm also p Sus of gamma, again I have no idea of her stances

[Killing Joke]

Yeah @Bella, I think I’m coming around to think RR may be genuine here. @RR, first we don’t know what Elements even is yet, we really only can trust Titus’ claim as valid. But here’s the thing, what exactly does scum!Mala have to gain by claiming miller if there’s no correspondence role that fits with it and we don’t have any reliable way to even know that yet but I just really struggle to understand a fake miller claim in a setup where it’s completely irrelevant? Like why would Mala put a target on her head like this? And like you said: TOWN By PLAY. If Mala had done anything so far even remotely sketchy I might agree with you but she hasn’t and when it comes to this - trying to break the game - type of mech speculation, it’s not a particularly reliable metric. In DnD mafia where I hydra’d with Math, he was lock convinced that bleeding obvtown!Kokichi had to be scum in that, solely for mech reasons and we almost got miselimmed because of that. People were saying things like they wanted to vig half a hydra in that - not my half obviously - but my point is that unless Mala does something scummy, I’m not going to suss her because of the miller claim.

Gimli tends to look scummy I think irrespective of alignment but his frustration with Mala seemed real to me. I really only have Temple to compare it to however but I think if he were scum here, he’d probably be wking us in not very helpful way. It’s not always easy to tell between uncertain town and scum trying to look good but in general, scum don’t tend to really put themselves out there for their trs the way Gimli has for us. And I think the reasoning is pretty obvious, scum!Gimli would be most likely I believe to soft defend us but not really particularly going out of his way to stop us from getting miselimed. Why? Because our flip obviously gives him towncred and he doesn’t obviously get that while we’re alive, so what’s the reasoning do you see RR for scum!Gimli to be doing this?

Think about it, scum!Gimli soft defends us but does absolutely nothing arguably useful to try to stop our wagon and we flip. He looks great and can say, see guys, I told you all KJ was town and then he can coast to endgame but that’s not what he did, he actually fought for us NOT to be miselimmed so no chance to get fake towncred for that.

While obviously scum can sometimes do a hard wk. it’s usually when they have a scum motive for it and like Occams razor, I think it’s probably wayyy more in scum!Gimli’s interest to soft defend us and let us get run up for towncred, then to help keep us alive. If I’m wrong then kudos but I don’t think I am. Literally only thing that gives me any pause at all on his slot is Andres but I think that’s really weak when taking everything else into account. However, it wouldn’t at all shock me if there was at least one slot weakly defending us since in pretty much the vast majority of games, scum love to do this whole good cop/bad cop kind of routine, so when they score a miselim, the slot weakly defending the hypothetical miselim pre-flip gets towncred for it.

I could do Dan, me and Joker were discussing how a lot of his reads seem kind of hedgey and Joker noted that his reaction to Flea and us earlier battling looked possibly like a tmi on both of us. I still am suss on Elements but HPE - other than unvoting - hasn’t really been reacessing much and I also think it’s a bit scummy that it isn’t even considering the SOFT double inno on us as even being relevant it seems. It’s one thing to correctly say it’s obviously not a hard clear but it doesn’t seem to be taking any account of it at all.

However, still don’t really know which of the three is best. I guess it depends if people believe Elements’ claim or not but I rn feel the worst about HPE but not enough atp to have a particularly strong preference, so still want to yeet amongst those three.

~Harley

[Eiralox]

By the by, if Elements is scum Harley sure do trust their results, and role, a lot. Saying Elements scum and using their unproven result for two soft innos in the same breath is whack.

I'll make my casing posts explaining who and where whenever I get the time.

Um . . . like hello, we’re a hydra in case you forgot. We ARE double SOFT-inno’d TOWN/VT here.

You made a grouping of us/Flea/Elements as having one scum. I KNOW with 1,000,000% that it ain’t us and I really believe Flea’s probably also town. So if there’s scum in that group, it’s Elements and we’re still town. we’re still vt regardless and like I already said, I think Flea probably is as well.

~Harley NOT Joker - please get it right already, kthanx

Going by what you said above, that being that Elements is in your PoE, I don't retract my statement at all.