Micro 1070 | a micro normal | Endgame

[Alisae]

it almost feels like yall were trying to vote me out before I showed back up. get off me

i don't think you're town lole

i don't think you're actually trying to read me

Doesn't OMGUS Datisi here

--

why would I go back and read people voting me? fuck that. not worth my time. Thus I expect truthful information when I'm here in the moment, not to be lied to then "lol checking to see if you were reading the thread" like why would I? if I really want to dig into me being voted it's just going to annoy me, and the "haha andante e-1" from whoever?? yeah no thanks. vote me out before I care, then it can be "haha andante was town"

VOTE: Klick

OMGUS you here

[Alisae]

dats/ari, idk how to ever read these 2, I don't think I've read like any posts from them this game that stood out

Maybe she figured out those 2 were masons at some point because I don't think she ever votes these 2 players outside of RVS. Maybe as early as when Andante voted Klick she figured out those 2 were masons?

[Alisae]

It seemed like whenever Andante voted someone outside of RVS it was OMGUS.
She OMGUS voted Klick. <-- This one was after interacting with a player.
She OMGUS voted Gimli. <-- This one is literally the first thing they post in the thread.
and she OMGUS voted Aureal. <-- This one is definitely on town.

Which one is it that is likely to be bussing?
I'd pick Gimli

[Alisae]

I vote Andante because I was catching up and I just kept seeing insanity and was like "yeah ok I don't really have anything else better to vote lets vote this"
If you think that's a bus idunno what to tell ya explain how that's a bus. I think the only reason that can be pointed to is because we have the exact same rolecard and I'm the one that posed a massclaim so like if I flip the wolf who was like "ooooooh okay" and then didn't add anything else or actually give any thoughts on it it makes me look better. I think this is the only argument for why I'm okay with flipping Andante.

Idunno, what do you think makes more sense, I started up a massclaim in order to plan ahead for a bus, or me proposing a massclaim to try to see if I can get other players to claim that they have my role and force those players to play their hand, which Andante did not say anything about it.

I think ladder makes more sense as I think if I'm the only villager who has my role, wolves are just not gonna claim it. Andante didn't claim it. Why would the other wolf claim it.

[Alisae]

wait hold up, this was advertised as complex? lmaooo

and 1 sec, alisae? why did you claim? it's day 1, game just started

Shows shock at setup being advertised as complex and asking why I claimed

and 1 sec, alisae? why did you claim? it's day 1, game just started

I softed a bunch and thought might as well claim in full to make it easier for those who don't understand to be able to understand.
I feel like the only reason why my role exists is because wolves both have my role and I feel like now that the game has developed a little bit, let's maybe introduce this part of the puzzle and see what happens next.

I tell her why and she just goes

and 1 sec, alisae? why did you claim? it's day 1, game just started

I softed a bunch and thought might as well claim in full to make it easier for those who don't understand to be able to understand.
I feel like the only reason why my role exists is because wolves both have my role and I feel like now that the game has developed a little bit, let's maybe introduce this part of the puzzle and see what happens next.

hmmm interesting, I honestly keep forgetting this game is so small, so I guess it doesn't really matter, probably searching for 2 scum, I don't feel like scum does this so early, so you're probably town, hmm this might actually be an easy solve.

she basically just goes "yep ok" nods head and then doesn't add anything else other than "eeeeeeeeeeh, ya you're probably town"

[Alisae]

I think her read on me should just be clearing me tbh because it just looks like to me that she just knows I'm town but doesn't also want to add since obviously my idea is pro-town from my pov

[Aureal]

Alisae does similarly in er arguments with Gimli but I think er responses are closer to 'Appeal to Emotion' than Gimli's responses
I think Alisae wants people to feel bad for not seeing Gimli as obvscum in places

I may have phrased things inaptly. I do see Alisae doing basically the same thing, I just singled out Gimli's posts because it seemed he was the one doing it

first

. That was the distinction I was drawing there. I wouldn't hold someone reacting to provocation to the same standard as the person doing the provoking. (not even all of Gimli's posts are just directed at Alisae either for that matter, there's definitely been some generalized shots fired)

Alisae, now can you explain what you expected to happen if people had claimed like you wanted? What kind of scenarios did you expect to see?

I expected 1 wolf to claim it, 1 wolf not to claim it and I wanted to divvy up into groups like in this open setup https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... nd_Conquer I was kind of posting in a way that would suggest to wolves to play it like this.
The plan was to then use dayplay to sort the groups

I think if my prediction was correct it would have helped us find wolves cause we can compare claims to what had happened prior in the day phase

That's an interesting concept for a game setup, but I'm still just confused how you were so confident that this game would just sort itself into something like that, to the point where you couldn't believe that Datisi could legitimately not expect it to do so. There are so many hurdles from having to correctly guess the setup to having to hope the wolves sorted themselves out like you wanted without having it mechanically verified by the game...

I mean, like, I'm not sure what the scum motivation here is. Other than helping find PRs of course but that's so obvious even I can see it. You did bring it up right after the thing where you voted me, so I could think maybe you wanted the conversation to not linger on that topic so brought up something that was bound to be a distraction. But that's probably a little self-centered of me.

[Aureal]

it shouldn't 'kind of' weird you out. if you're town then one of the players townreading you is a wolf who wants to take you to f3 and either have you on their side or have you flipped. for the last scum you're tomorrow's problem.

Sigh. I may still be able to /in as new in the newbie queue but I can at least figure that people could townread me in an attempt to get me on their side. But like, do you think

Klick

is doing that? No you do not. And Alisae is probably right in saying I'd vote there rather than for Klick, that's not that hard to figure. Ari may have shaken my TR on Klick a bit but I never really had much of one on Alisae in the first place.

[Aureal]

I'm not squinting hard at all I've had Aureal as town for a long time and it's come to me naturally

I feel like you're not really addressing what I've said in the context of it being a response to you talking about Aureal's progression on Andante and are instead responding to that post in isolation
Which feels strange to me

You say 192 says nothing about Andante but I hard disagree
Aureal is really clearly having thoughts about Andante there and I think you'd see that if you got out of the Aureal!scum tunnel for a second
She's seeing what people have said about Andante's meta. She has seen that I'm scumreading Andante based on reading Andante's way of playing differently to others, and is

actually processing the implications of that

. You see this thought process carried on in her eventual Andante vote where she *trusts me* and *sheeps my Andante vote*. The reason Aureal votes Andante is because she's following my meta, because she has decided she can trust my read there. There is GENUINE THOUGHT there.

.........

Aristeia, this post is showing (again) that Klick is definitely thinking about why people are doing what they're doing. It's very hard to not townread this. If Klick is scum, he's putting in the work too, trying to solve us even though we're already solved. I'm okay with moving my poe back down to Gimli and Alisae.

[Aureal]

I could probably find a way to inflate the pages too, I LOVE doing that as a wolf cause everyone I post I know that it's a wolf post
I had to do so when I was playing wolf with mena because I had to communicate with him and get away with it with 2 townies watching cause we didn't have a wolf PT LOL

It's really easy to hide when one assumes that everything is just junk

Ooooh, can I inflate pages too?

...actually, I think I'm at about my limit for successive posts. Maybe someday I'll manage to be around when there's someone to respond to.

[Klick]

I'm here!!

Aureal, do you feel particularly strongly between Gimli and Alisae? I think you're leaning Gimli but like is there a strength of read difference there? I'm interested in seeing how you sort between them especially since they both look pretty similar on the surface in this day phase

[Aureal]

Ack, a person appears!

I... Well, I guess not super-strongly or anything. I came out more strongly for Gimli originally largely because I was feeling the mechanics seemed more likely to be balanced that way, with Gimli having some modest unknown wolf power like a 1-shot rolecop or something. After stewing on that a bit more though, it's probably close enough to balanced if the second wolf is just a nothingburger too, so that seems reasonable enough as well.

Maybe I'm just too wary of Gimli because he was scum in our previous game and I spent all day one strongly townreading him. It's not actually that easy for me to get strong reads, so I was a little miffed to be wrong there, though I did get others right.

And all of his posturing about how it's so obvious he's town doesn't do anything for me. I know, I'm not very good at this yet, I don't need lectures about it.

[Alisae]

That's an interesting concept for a game setup, but I'm still just confused how you were so confident that this game would just sort itself into something like that, to the point where you couldn't believe that Datisi could legitimately not expect it to do so. There are so many hurdles from having to correctly guess the setup to having to hope the wolves sorted themselves out like you wanted without having it mechanically verified by the game...

I mean I didn't know Datisi was a mason so like that probably played a factor to their thinking. I didn't exactly have any way of knowing that and I probably would not be able to find that in the moment if it was possible for me to.
Truth is I just wanted to shoot and see what happened and then try to figure out what was going on in the game based on how many claimed.

I mean, like, I'm not sure what the scum motivation here is. Other than helping find PRs of course but that's so obvious even I can see it. You did bring it up right after the thing where you voted me, so I could think maybe you wanted the conversation to not linger on that topic so brought up something that was bound to be a distraction. But that's probably a little self-centered of me.

Timing was pretty important as to when, I think it was best to introduce the idea during a point of time where the day phase was kind of developed and it kind of was at that point. I don't think this kind of thing would be good to do at the start of the game but during the middle of the day once people have formed reads I think that's fine to try to throw out the idea and see what happens or if there are claims how those claims influence my reads.

[Aureal]

Like, day one here I don't think there was anything in particular that stood out from Gimli for me. The reads were fine? It all happened so fast though, I didn't get a chance to process it and nothing just instinctively clicked, where I could see things the same way because that's how I was thinking. Maybe I've just been too out of sorts this game, it's a tough scenario for me to be in a game full of people with lots of experience both with each other and playing mafia in general. Add in other circumstances like being sick and most of the activity coming during off-hours for me and I sort of feel like I'm just standing down here watching the rest of you tightrope walk with pugel sticks and I don't quite know what to do about it. I can offer my perspective, but people haven't seemed too interested in it (hi day 2 bye day 2) and I'm not going to find some damning bit of information if I just poke at old posts enough.

I don't know that I would really call their play this day that similar though. Gimli's feels worse, and I don't think I can really articulate why right now, other than maybe because he seems to be the instigator for the emotional mudslinging. Well and I guess what I already said about it being weird that he was expressing suspicion of me BEFORE trying to do a read to find out why he should be suspicious. I've gotta get some sleep though, maybe I can come up with something else tomorrow. Or realize I'm maybe more susceptible to Alisae's AtE than I thought.

[Gimli]

It's just alisae

Good to see aureal obvtowning, only took three gamedays (to me at least)

Good morning team

[Gimli]

Re: who started being emotional itt, I only started acting out when alisae told aristeia to vote me cause she owed er for voting myko on D2. There were some parts of D3 I felt unheard and like I'm chopped liver.

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Gimli
this is definitely a wolf, Herta was not towny, gimli seems to be trying way too hard to push me, I'm good with voting here

THIS IS THE FIRST THING THAT SHE DOES WHEN SHE COMES INTO THE THREAD

Andante very rarely busses

[Aristeia]

I actually forgot about that

[Aristeia]

if you think I am wrong about that piece of meta pls give me an example of Andante bussing

[Alisae]

I mean my townflip can also just prove you wrong because that would mean that she voted every player that’s currently alive except me

[Alisae]

I think if someone told the player to bus they would bus

[Aristeia]

bussing and voting are not the same thing

[Alisae]

Oh ok ig my boomer brain correlates the two because I’ve seen people be like “I NEVER BUS” and usually I think that also means vote

[Aristeia]

like I don't really think Andante's vote on Klick or Aureal would be considered bussing because at the time she made the vote I don't think it was likely either Klick or Aureal would be eliminated

actually the gimli vote might not be really bussing because she only kept the vote there for a tiny sliver of time but like when she made it at least it was an e-2 vote and gimli was sort of viable as opposed to single voting someone.

[Gimli]

And all of his posturing about how it's so obvious he's town doesn't do anything for me. I know, I'm not very good at this yet, I don't need lectures about it.

Idk if it's that smart to respond to this, cause it won't necessarily help you with my alignment (and like I said in D1 I fully expected you to never townread me this game). But I would never call myself obvtown. I said I played a great d1 cause that's what I feel about my D1. I took a slot that was sussed by the masons and not TRed by anyone and helped us getting a scum flip.

What triggered emotional responses from me was people talking over me, not reading what I'm saying and not taking me into consideration. I feel like I'd be equally upset with that if I was scum. I've been upset with that as scum.

I offered my flip both d2 and this gameday as a reaction to alisaes tunnel. Is that good mafia playing? No it's not. But I don't mean to be manipulative or LAMIST with it. Everytime I said my flip would be good I meant it.

Of course, I don't need to flip. We can just win at any point now. Game's pretty much over imo.