Micro 1073: Purgatory - Game Over!

[Aureal]

Well if town wasn't so bad at finding scum we could've had one.

That seems like it could be problematic to have multiple martyrs though, what would if they don't agree? I guess they'd have to use the same deadline votes system.

[Aureal]

Also I feel like Vanders deserves a special shout out, fmpov all 38 pages of you screaming that Ranger was scum were sorely necessary and I’m not sure how this game would have gone if not for you

I'm going to take that as meaning it's better that we flipped him rather than me so you got the benefit of knowing his better reads were for real and not my gullible ones.

[Alianna]

Aisa's delusions in all their glory.

[Aureal]

Bella oh my god!! My reads were so so cooked when I got voted into heaven
All three of you have nice scumgames well done

*lightbulb*

[Doctor Drew]

And another thank you to Aisa for allowing me to update my sig.

Genuinely made me smile when you said that

[Ranger]

Also I feel like Vanders deserves a special shout out, fmpov all 38 pages of you screaming that Ranger was scum were sorely necessary and I’m not sure how this game would have gone if not for you

You've no idea.

I was 30 seconds too late to post a post. I was typing it, had it finished, thread was unlocked when I hit submit, but got locked as I hit submit so it didn't go through.

[Vanderscamp]

Great work Aisa, great shots both days.

[Vanderscamp]

Also I feel like Vanders deserves a special shout out, fmpov all 38 pages of you screaming that Ranger was scum were sorely necessary and I’m not sure how this game would have gone if not for you

I did get sidetracked with Aureal, that probably made it a lot harder to get her on side about Ranger.

Given the team was Ranger/Bella I'm really glad Enchant hammered me over Aureal, I think the game becomes a lot easier to win.

[Ranger]

Thoughts on the setup?
I would have liked another Heaven phase personally.

It's absurdly townsided as-is.

The town has

five

chances to vote out

two

scum, and the scum have

zero

counterplay.

For reference: in a normal 7:2 micro, a town has four chances to vote out two scum, and that's with scum having the counterplay of a nightkill.

In a 10:3 mini, a town has five chances to vote out three scum, and that's with scum having the counterplay of a nightkill.

This setup, without scum having counterplay, offers the town an

extra

chance to win compared to games

with

a nightkill. Kills buff scum, so an absence of them buffs town; having an extra elimination buffs town; with double-buffs, the game is virtually unlosable for the town mathematically. The extra scum is actually

detrimental

to their chances of winning, because mathematically they've a much higher chance of being found every day.

With one town voted out Hell1, there's 5:3.
With one town sent to Heaven, there's 4:3.
In 4:3, the town has

three

chances to catch two scum.
Miss in 4:3, and judgement 1. Hit scum 1, and game goes to 3:2.
Miss in 3:2, and judgement 2. The townie in heaven has a 50% chance to win the game, on the last elimination, with four players to select from.

All it'd take to make it balanced imo is EITHER: removing a second judgement phase (town only gets one, if the town blows it on the next Hell phase they just lose), OR: start the game on a Heaven phase to give more Heaven phases.

[Ranger]

Given the team was Ranger/Bella I'm really glad Enchant hammered me over Aureal, I think the game becomes a lot easier to win.

Oh certainly.

Enchant hammering you while I was indisposed was a massive inconvenience.

I knew there was a high chance my irl schedule prevented me from contributing meaning you'd get the last word in (and I knew that'd bias Aisa against me because whoever speaks last has more credibility); Enchant actually hammering you meant I had even less time and less avenues.

An Aureal mislim would definitely had been better.

[Vanderscamp]

Thoughts on the setup?

I would have liked another Heaven phase personally.

It seems very hard for scum to win if they don't get voted into heaven, I like the concept but I would change something about it to make it less townsided.

[Vanderscamp]

Ranger: I think your counterplay is getting one scum voted into heaven, because at that point you're basically playing a normal 5 vs 2 with some additional outs to get a 2 scum heaven win.

[Ranger]

Ranger: I think your counterplay is getting one scum voted into heaven, because at that point you're basically playing a normal 5 vs 2 with some additional outs to get a 2 scum heaven win.

Which runs into the issue I mentioned:
If two scum voted one scum into heaven, and the town accounts for this, the scum are in a no-win scenario. Mechanically, if scum is voted into heaven, town should treat every voter for the scum into heaven as scum. That's the mechanically-correct play.

It becomes winnable with only one scum voting scum into heaven; the odds are still not good.

The only time this backfires is if neither remaining scum was on the scum-to-heaven wagon. In short, an effectively all-town wagon sending scum to heaven.

[Vanderscamp]

Ranger: I think your counterplay is getting one scum voted into heaven, because at that point you're basically playing a normal 5 vs 2 with some additional outs to get a 2 scum heaven win.

Which runs into the issue I mentioned:
If two scum voted one scum into heaven, and the town accounts for this, the scum are in a no-win scenario. Mechanically, if scum is voted into heaven, town should treat every voter for the scum into heaven as scum. That's the mechanically-correct play.

It becomes winnable with only one scum voting scum into heaven; the odds are still not good.

The only time this backfires is if neither remaining scum was on the scum-to-heaven wagon. In short, an effectively all-town wagon sending scum to heaven.

Sure, but if two scum vote a scum into heaven and town accounts for that and has an autowin, then the flip side of that is that if a scum gets voted into heaven and one scum is off the wagon, then town will have an autoloss, right?

[Bellaphant]

Aisa, you are the best.

Vander, you were so obvtown the last day phase, I have no idea how two town voted you! You are right about the set up as well: the only good thing is to somehow position to be in heaven, but the optics are really tricky.

GG

[Vanderscamp]

The optics may be a bit tricky but the result really can't be that bad, right?

Like regardless of wagon based arguments, if the game goes one town in hell, one scum in heaven, then you're just playing a vanilla 5 vs 2 with town controlling the NK but a freeroll to win if they ever NK a town.
It's also very very hard for town to be able to send other town to heaven unless scum is helping them.

Like, this game, like if Bella hammers Ranger D3 and then Bella gets sent to heaven D4 (which should be pretty easily doable without Vox even looking bad), Vox just has to win a final 5, which is not trivial, but he looked pretty good from his Ranger interactions and that definitely seems more winnable than hoping town gets it wrong multiple times with a very large scum pool to choose from. I think you guys can do something like Drew hell D5, me heaven D6, Aureal hell D7 and you're even favored to win with that line.

[Aisa]

Thoughts on the setup?

I would have liked another Heaven phase personally.

I liked the fact scum had two separate wincons. Made the gamestate feel dynamic and I struggled to decide which wincon scum were even aiming for.
Does maybe feel a bit townsided. Would probably play again then regret my life choices if I rolled scum

Thanks for modding furt and Alianna.

And another thank you to Aisa for allowing me to update my sig.

Genuinely made me smile when you said that

You're fun to play with, I like playing with slightly more aggressive players
Mafia would be so boring if I had to play with 5 copies of myself every game lmao

[Aisa]

Also I feel like Vanders deserves a special shout out, fmpov all 38 pages of you screaming that Ranger was scum were sorely necessary and I’m not sure how this game would have gone if not for you

You've no idea.

I was 30 seconds too late to post a post. I was typing it, had it finished, thread was unlocked when I hit submit, but got locked as I hit submit so it didn't go through.

That sounds so frustrating and I too hate it when the townies start talking!! Don't envy you at all :c
Also omg gonna take a few pages out of your scumgame the next time I roll red

Also I feel like Vanders deserves a special shout out, fmpov all 38 pages of you screaming that Ranger was scum were sorely necessary and I’m not sure how this game would have gone if not for you

I'm going to take that as meaning it's better that we flipped him rather than me so you got the benefit of knowing his better reads were for real and not my gullible ones.

Also I feel like Vanders deserves a special shout out, fmpov all 38 pages of you screaming that Ranger was scum were sorely necessary and I’m not sure how this game would have gone if not for you

I did get sidetracked with Aureal, that probably made it a lot harder to get her on side about Ranger.

Given the team was Ranger/Bella I'm really glad Enchant hammered me over Aureal, I think the game becomes a lot easier to win.

It's really not clear what would have happened if Aureal had gotten limmed instead! The landscape of possible scumteams would have felt very different. Ranger did look a lot worse off the Vanders elim than she would have off Aureal, I think. I townread Vanders but it's not obvious that I would have stuck with the read if he had survived.

[Aisa]

Aisa, you are the best.

but then aisa caught a scum anyway (GJ, but I wish we could talk!)

Love how I told myself I would not fall for this but

entirely coincidentally

you still rose through my reads around that time
The way to my heart really isn't that complex

[Korina]

GG, sorry for replacing out. My game I was running got maliciously ruined and that absolutely destroyed any motivation to play. Glad to see I was right on Ranger!scum though

[Korina]

Also the setup is probably townsided lol. It’s hard for scum to win unless they just deepwolf and get sent to heaven, or deepwolf hard enough that they avoid judgement.

[Bellaphant]

I think aisa picking wrong the first time also makes this winable, but she was right!

[furtiveglance]

Yeah I mean with the 2 Judgement Days scum had 2 50/50s to win

[Vanderscamp]

Martyr chat was a great read, thanks Aisa!


Also, sorry Aureal for tunneling you so hard.

[Enchant]

Yeah I mean with the 2 Judgement Days scum had 2 50/50s to win

75%

I am too beautiful to send to hell.