large normal 243: lindOVER

[MalcolmTucker]

Bub seems quite townie from page 1. I think he's stretching a bit with his logic re possible scum due to innocuous opening posts (I do the same basically every game as shown above), but it feels like the type of post that comes from town trying to push the game forward early doors and at least open up avenues of suspicion.

[MalcolmTucker]

I appreciate y'all trying so hard out the gate but I think most of what's been argued so far isn't really alignment indicative

Also btw FoSing is out of style these days

I feel like everything is alignment indicative. Every post is made with intentions. Its not up to the poster to express this, but up to the player-base to interpret.

Both town and mafia can make contentless posts for no reason or for whatever reason really. It is a common mistake for town to assume that every post has intention.

VOTE: Greeting

Mind elaborating?

"It is a common mistake for town to assume that every post has intention."

I believe this sentence is a scumslip.

A huge overreaction but also the sort of baseless accusation that's coming from very eager town early on. Plenty of mafia posts come without much of an intention, especially early doors when everyone's easing into the game.

[Save The Dragons]

igmeoy is an old term used in place of FOS, usually to mean even less intense of a scumread than an FOS would indicate.

[Skygazer]

ill be posting again at some point today, feeling bleh

[ballpointpen]

Why would mafia care about a poster's intention?

kowhabunga’s choice to read into posts isnt based on alignment, and there’s no reason for why scum couldnt emulate that kind of mindset in the premise of fake contrib, so its weird your default reaction was to assume he was town

[MalcolmTucker]

Ballpoint feels scummiest to me so far on gut instinct alone, feel like they're picking/probing at a lot of things in a way that makes them look busy and inquisitive but without there being much substance beyond that. There's a caginess to their play but also a desire to look busy and active that isn't chiming with me so far.

Hu Tao feels a little bit scummy too.

[ballpointpen]

Ballpoint feels scummiest to me so far on gut instinct alone, feel like they're picking/probing at a lot of things in a way that makes them look busy and inquisitive but without there being much substance beyond that. There's a caginess to their play but also a desire to look busy and active that isn't chiming with me so far.

Hu Tao feels a little bit scummy too.

saying less is better than saying more
ive learned quite a bit from my interactions, but the better question is whether you have as well, and what you want to do with that information

[ballpointpen]

mind elaborating on your hu tao read?

[schadd_]

Spoiler:

embaci

ph. neva wireko

vote count 1.2 !

Hu Tao (2):

ballpointpen, Bub Bidderskins

Greeting (2):

NJAC, Kowahbunga

Glitch (1):

Skygazer

Andante (1):

Cephrir

ballpointpen (1):

KittyTacky

Dionysus (1):

KawaiiKame

KawaiiKame (1):

curiouskarmadog

curiouskarmadog (1):

Hu Tao

not voting (7):

MalcolmTucker, Greeting, Brickwalll, Dionysus, Save The Dragons, Andante, Glitch

with 17 alive, it takes 9 to put someone in the machine. day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-04-02 13:48:07)

moderateur notes

• replacing dionysus; prodding brickwall

[Hu Tao]

I think Hu Tao can go to my town pile.

@Hu Tao: what's your experience with Mafia games?

Why can I go to your town pile?

And I'm experienced, not on this site though.

[Hu Tao]

Lots of talk about RVS and how useful/useless it is so far. Let’s railroad someone and see what happens from there. Maybe some actual content will start.

VOTE: Hu Tao

you don't think there's anything of note in the last 3 pages?

Actual content sure. Noteworthy and AI, on page 3 not really.

I will say I’m so glad there’s not 406 pages to read between signing on. My last large I could barely keep up.

Going in to work but I’ll be back with a few thoughts after my work day. VOTE: Unvote

Not sure I buy this. But I'll see what you say after your thoughts

[Hu Tao]

Ballpoint feels scummiest to me so far on gut instinct alone, feel like they're picking/probing at a lot of things in a way that makes them look busy and inquisitive but without there being much substance beyond that. There's a caginess to their play but also a desire to look busy and active that isn't chiming with me so far.

Hu Tao feels a little bit scummy too.

I disagree with ball being scummy.

Why am I scummy?

[Kowahbunga]

Lets put Greeting in the machine. More votes to do that, please.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: hu tao

[schadd_]

flavor leaf replaces dionysus

[Skygazer]

oh hi boon

[Greeting]

Why would mafia care about a poster's intention?

kowhabunga’s choice to read into posts isnt based on alignment, and there’s no reason for why scum couldnt emulate that kind of mindset in the premise of fake contrib, so its weird your default reaction was to assume he was town

I do think he is town. Surely, everything and anything can be faked in a mafia game, but, in my experience, these kinds of posts usually come from town mindsets.

[Greeting]

Lets put Greeting in the machine. More votes to do that, please.

Why haven't you answered my question?

[Bub Bidderskins]

Okay, time to stop pretending I actually think just saying "hi" is all that scummy. I agree with all the folks who said it's not that alignment idicating. Yes, it's a huge stretch, but I was trying to get some actual conversation started. I'm of the opinion that the sooner you switch from pleasantries into actually forming bandwagons the less time the scum have to coast. The one piece of hard info from this that I do believe is that I seriously doubt both Kawaii and Hsu are scum. It wouldn't surprise me if one or neither are scum, but I would be surprised if both are. To me at least, posting back to back with fluff posts with your teammate is something scum would be too self-conscious to do.

Before anything else UNVOTE:

I'm getting a mild townie read from Hsu but I'm not 100%. They didn't panic or immediately deflect when under some mild pressure, but did use it as opportunity to ask questions. For example, I read their post #59 questioning curiouskarmadog's vote for Kawaii over Hsu as a good faith attempt to scumhunt and not a panic deflection. Still early and I'm not married to this read, but for now in the town pile.

Right now there are three people I'm legitimately suspicious of:

Glitch

ballpoint

curiouskarmadog

Gonna state reasons below.

[Kowahbunga]

Lets put Greeting in the machine. More votes to do that, please.

Why haven't you answered my question?

To answer you question from 91 - you know my alignment.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Glitch

This sequence of posts feels scummy to me. Twice posting about the idea of creating content without actually creating content. I'm gonna give him some benefit of the doubt on the last post because people have lives, but that's two posts over the course of nearly two full days promising the idea of furthering scumhunting without actually doing anything.

Mod

: Vote count is incorrect, this is my first post and as such I have not voted yet. Thanks for modding a large. That’s a big task to take on but I love a good large so thanks for the work you’re putting in.

Hello all. Been two years since I played but I’m excited to be back. I saw a few others are back from hiatus as well. I imagine some of us are back cause of the newsletter. I know I am. Cool deal.

Lots of talk about RVS and how useful/useless it is so far. Let’s railroad someone and see what happens from there. Maybe some actual content will start.

VOTE: Hu Tao

Lots of talk about RVS and how useful/useless it is so far. Let’s railroad someone and see what happens from there. Maybe some actual content will start.

VOTE: Hu Tao

you don't think there's anything of note in the last 3 pages?

Actual content sure. Noteworthy and AI, on page 3 not really.

I will say I’m so glad there’s not 406 pages to read between signing on. My last large I could barely keep up.

Going in to work but I’ll be back with a few thoughts after my work day. VOTE: Unvote

[Bub Bidderskins]

Ballpoint

I had the same instinct as Malcom

Ballpoint feels scummiest to me so far on gut instinct alone, feel like they're picking/probing at a lot of things in a way that makes them look busy and inquisitive but without there being much substance beyond that. There's a caginess to their play but also a desire to look busy and active that isn't chiming with me so far.

Hu Tao feels a little bit scummy too.

Ballpoint's posted a fair amount, maintaining activity, and making some prima facia reasonable...yet uncommital statements. For example:

Sure, it's just the the timing that seemed a little...eh to me. Sort of "hey, let's show my face so everyone knows I'm cool but not actually try to move towards finding scum>" I'll admit it's weak and I'm not married to this tell, but my general read of scum behavior is that they're like politicans who'll pop in to show themselves but don't actually want to be attached to a wagon.

I'm much more confident in my read that it's very unlikely both Hsu and Kawaii are both scum just because of their interaction. It just seems like scum wouldn't banter with each other about such fluff just right out of the gate.

there's a distinction between AI and wifom. even if you do believe everything that has been posted has some sort of motivation, it might just be irrelevant because there's an equal chance that the user posted it as town or scum, which is exactly what those two posts are: there's nothing distinct about posting "hi" for either alignment, making the alignment read a massive stretch.

Yeah this is true, but it just kind of muddies the waters in general. This would implicate ballpoint and Hsu as a scumteam, but weirdly ballpoint random voted Hsu earlier? So if you don't think it's alignment indicating why are you still voting for Hsu now that Hsu is under at least superficially legitimate suspicion? Ballpoint never unvoted but casted doubt on the reads of the person's they're voting for. It's possible this is not alignment indicating and ballpoint just random voted and didn't give their random vote much thought, but still curious.

Lots of talk about RVS and how useful/useless it is so far. Let’s railroad someone and see what happens from there. Maybe some actual content will start.

VOTE: Hu Tao

you don't think there's anything of note in the last 3 pages?

that was a really interesting reaction to greeting's post

These two posts again highlight what Malcom was saying and I agree. Allusions to the idea of moving the game forward without real teeth.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Ballpoint

I had the same instinct as Malcom

Ballpoint feels scummiest to me so far on gut instinct alone, feel like they're picking/probing at a lot of things in a way that makes them look busy and inquisitive but without there being much substance beyond that. There's a caginess to their play but also a desire to look busy and active that isn't chiming with me so far.

Hu Tao feels a little bit scummy too.

Ballpoint's posted a fair amount, maintaining activity, and making some prima facia reasonable...yet uncommital statements. For example:

Sure, it's just the the timing that seemed a little...eh to me. Sort of "hey, let's show my face so everyone knows I'm cool but not actually try to move towards finding scum>" I'll admit it's weak and I'm not married to this tell, but my general read of scum behavior is that they're like politicans who'll pop in to show themselves but don't actually want to be attached to a wagon.

I'm much more confident in my read that it's very unlikely both Hsu and Kawaii are both scum just because of their interaction. It just seems like scum wouldn't banter with each other about such fluff just right out of the gate.

there's a distinction between AI and wifom. even if you do believe everything that has been posted has some sort of motivation, it might just be irrelevant because there's an equal chance that the user posted it as town or scum, which is exactly what those two posts are: there's nothing distinct about posting "hi" for either alignment, making the alignment read a massive stretch.

Yeah this is true, but it just kind of muddies the waters in general. This would implicate ballpoint and Hsu as a scumteam, but weirdly ballpoint random voted Hsu earlier? So if you don't think it's alignment indicating why are you still voting for Hsu now that Hsu is under at least superficially legitimate suspicion? Ballpoint never unvoted but casted doubt on the reads of the person's they're voting for. It's possible this is not alignment indicating and ballpoint just random voted and didn't give their random vote much thought, but still curious.

Lots of talk about RVS and how useful/useless it is so far. Let’s railroad someone and see what happens from there. Maybe some actual content will start.

VOTE: Hu Tao

you don't think there's anything of note in the last 3 pages?

that was a really interesting reaction to greeting's post

These two posts again highlight what Malcom was saying and I agree. Allusions to the idea of moving the game forward without real teeth.

[Bub Bidderskins]

AHH, I accidentally double posted!

curiouskarmadog

This is who I think is most scummy at the moment.

VOTE: curiouskarmadog

Why? None of their posts have seriously moved towards scumhunting. In fact, to the extent that they've expressed theories on how to scumhunt, they've done the opposite -- or even worse -- not followed through on what they promised/gave the illusion of doing. First:

It begins

Hello everyone

So right off the bat I'm somewhat suspicious of both Kawaii and Hu Tao here. This is admitedly somewhat weak because the game just started, but both of these posts are really fluffy, non-commital and not progressing the game. Now, is this progressing the game more than a random vote? I dunno, but the reason why "random" votes are a thing is to create an initial paper trail of some sort...they aren't really random, so it immediately puts the scum in a bit of a pick of whether or not to bus. So far, these posts are just the most flimsy, "hey I'm here but not actually advancing the game" kind of posts.

I'm, going to go ahead and VOTE: Hu Tao


Mainly because it was another post right after a fluff post by Kawaii. Kind of reads as scum thinking "okay, need to say something now to not look suspicious" while being non-comittal.

Also going to put a

finger of suspicion on Kawaii

for similar sorts of reasons, but I think it's very unlikely that both Kawaii and Hu are scum. No way a scum comes in right after their buddy to make an almost identical post.

Im sold.

However, Im going to

vote Kawaii

I hate finger of suspicions...its like getting credit for a vote without having to do anything. If Kawaii flips scum, this looks sketchy.

consider this my

finger of suspicion (any hypocrisy) on Bub

Earlier I asked why Kawaii and not Hsu? If they believed me, why not vote for Hsu? Sure it's early and essentially a random vote, but I asked for explanation directly in post #39 and got crickets. Like, the whole idea of starting a flimsy wagon at the beginning was to generate some conversation about what scummy behavior is...but there's no effort to actually discuss that behavior.

Second...

I vote Kowahbunga for town leader.

(attempt to make friends)

then

(tells some jokes)

fun. clearly cant be scum

there should be a sarcasm font.

Making some vague allusions to the idea that Andate is scummy with no follow-up or serious pursuit. Just trying to sow generally mistrust on people in low-cost ways is scummy. This makes me think Andate is town -- conditional on curiouskarmakitty being scum -- because this is way too weak to be a bus. Also, curiouskarmakitty themselves said that fingers of suspician are cheap because it's a way to get credit for suspecting folks without doing the work...but here they are doing something very similar. I know they were intentionally hypocritcal earlier for a laugh (I don't read that as scummy) but this seems actually hypocritcal in a way that would be beneficial for scum.

also lets get this wagon started...

more votes on me please, lets get an early wagon started for giggles and see what happens.

this Day 1 fluff business is done. The true hunting of scum happens on the wagons!!!!

The wagon's already going my friend. Maybe try actually scumhunting instead of saying that you're going to do it.

I'm happy with my vote.

[Bub Bidderskins]

I appreciate y'all trying so hard out the gate but I think most of what's been argued so far isn't really alignment indicative

Also btw FoSing is out of style these days

I feel like everything is alignment indicative. Every post is made with intentions. Its not up to the poster to express this, but up to the player-base to interpret.

Both town and mafia can make contentless posts for no reason or for whatever reason really. It is a common mistake for town to assume that every post has intention.

VOTE: Greeting

Mind elaborating?

"It is a common mistake for town to assume that every post has intention."

I believe this sentence is a scumslip.

I see where you're coming from and it's reasonable enough to throw a D1 vote Greeting's way over that, but it seems a little flimsy for me -- at least for a vote at this stage where I believe there's much more solid evidence of scummy behavior among glitch, ballpoint, and curiouskarmadog.