Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End

[sheepsaysmeep]

Dunn what are ur strongest reads off the top of ur head? Can’t rly tell from a skim

[Aisa]

^ Good question. Seconding that.

@sheep

I'm somewhat questioning ceph and implo now. I don't really think csf is town

I'm still somewhat sketchy on andante's slot tbh

ehhh im on a pretty different wavelength, I think ceph+implo are the 2 who feel the game most similarly to me in a way that's probably just villa lo l

Can you explain why they felt the game most similarly to you?

@sheep

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I think I'm like at {Dunn, Delta, Aureal, sheep} in terms of slots I want to look at first, maybe with a chance of skitter once I reread skitt vs ceph

Aisa, what do you think about Dunn's pushback against my vote?

Looking at it more carefully now I don't think it's a great look.

Spoiler: The discussion in question

And I'm the first replacement to catch up! Yay, I win!

I feel a little better about Ceph from the skitter push on him here. Not because of all the silly "I'm so towny" stuff, but I do find some credibility in the idea that he's made his meta case on Enchant before and finds it exasperating to have to spell it out for people again.

Hmmmm. At this point I think I'm going to VOTE: Dunnstral. Still not seeing anything towny here, the only seeming to pop up to argue with people scumreading him isn't a great look, and the counter wagon on him seemingly speeding up pressure to launch Enchant could be telling.

the counter wagon on him seemingly speeding up pressure to launch Enchant could be telling.

Can you point to where this happens?

the counter wagon on him seemingly speeding up pressure to launch Enchant could be telling.

Can you point to where this happens?

CSF put a fourth vote on you with a pretty decent argument that could've actually brought your wagon into focus as a serious thing. Instead it started getting waved off by sheep in particular as a done deal that needed to happen.

Actually, Invis NK after she was the sixth vote on Enchant could be scum trying to get us to think this sudden haste to take out Enchant was all nice and towny?

On the subject of Andante, I try not to assign ai reasons to replace puts (I think a few mods do have a rule against discussing it). It's pretty clear though that she left Team Mafia because people were very pissed at her, and I don't blame her at all. Her scum teammates literally told her not to sign up to play with them again.

So why don't you vote sheep instead of me then?

So why don't you vote sheep instead of me then?

Uh, why? If sheep was trying to make sure Enchant got flipped rather than you, surely the obvious implication would be that you're likely scum partners? Is it very likely that scum goes out of the way trying to wave a town wagon onward when the growing counterwagon is also town?

At the end of the day you've arrived at voting me because someone else is playing scummy to you

At the end of the day you've arrived at voting me because someone else is playing scummy to you

At the end of the day that's a mischaracterization that makes me feel better about where my vote is.

Like even if the possible sheep association thing was absolutely the only reason I had to think you could be scum, and it's not; in a vacuum it'd be a coin flip whether to vote you or sheep to investigate the association. But it's not even a vacuum, you're getting voted already and sheep isn't so obviously it'd make more sense to vote you.

He quotes from 1050 specifically, where you explain the reasons you have for voting him. As you said, wagonomics are not the only reason you're voting him, so I agree he is being a bit reductionist by asking why you're not voting for sheep in 1064 and 1071. It's difficult to think of a town motivation for 1071 other than him forgetting you also had other reasons for the vote, so I think it's +scum overall.

In general I don't find it all that worrying in isolation, but I'm worried that I'm finding it overall impossible to tell if his scumhunting is genuine or not.

For example, implosion's reasons for townreading Dunn in my head are "he has some original takes, and also doesn't feel like he's pushing an agenda". I think I can see why he'd be tempted to townread Dunn for his positioning. For example, I quite like this post:

I like GuerillaWoo and would not want to see them go.

I think this was a fairly original take at the time, yet he just puts it out there like it's the chillest thing in the world and doesn't need any elaboration. If he's town this is self-explanatory, if he's scum there's no obvious immediate path from making the post to towncred.

However, whiteknighting townies is a thing, scum not always pushing the obvious suspects is a thing, and implosion talks almost like he has never seen the scum playstyle of "pop in a couple times a day, state a couple reads, and get out" (<3)

[Aisa]

Although I do think the Andante spiel is town-indicative

[skitter30]

I think dunn and aisa are most likely town

[skitter30]

@sheep why do u think your wim is still low here?

[Umlaut]

MegAzumarill was prodded.

[skitter30]

Would kinda like to hear more from meg + delta

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 2.3

The government’s self-support scheme launched in 1971. It’s not known when the scheme finished because nobody could ever reach the government by telephone. Letters were returned with “Not known at this address” written across them. Even when people turned up in London to complain in person, they discovered that many government buildings were just facades of the kind one might find on a film set. The Houses of Commons and Lords were in partial ruin, seemingly vacated years before, and had become home to goats, chickens and other livestock. This fact had only gone undetected for so long because the bleating and clucking of the animals coming from within the chambers was indistinguishable from those of their political predecessors.

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Deltabreedy (3):

Egix96, Dunnstral, Cephrir

Dunnstral (2):

Aisa, Aureal

Cephrir (2):

skitter30, Menalque

Aisa (1):

sheepsaysmeep

Not voting (3):

implosion, MegAzumarill, Deltabreedy

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to launch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-06-13 14:00:00)

[skitter30]

Also like kinda want meg to confirm that her slot did indeed taks an action last night ...

[sheepsaysmeep]

@sheep why do u think your wim is still low here?

idk hard to explain probably just a minor mix of out-of-game stuff

[sheepsaysmeep]

first I was like "I feel like aisa is really really really wolf and my entire to-do list today is just to guide other people to that light and then today was productive enough"

now it's like, Asia's being mildly villagery, so when I start doing things I need to think about a ton and that's scary

[Menalque]

Regarding Andante, I think my read on her is now in the vicinity of "town, but can still be persuaded otherwise by someone who knows more about her". I don't think her Dunn case is scummy by any means, I just don't understand it at all (except for activity points). It's entirely possible that it's actually a good case that I just cannot physically parse.

I think her trajectory through this game sort of makes sense with how she'd feel as town; I think going to read people and latching onto a Dunn scumread is something she could definitely do as town. I think I tend to read her general sense of being pissed at the game state, like her indignance at the Enchant wagon and at people refusing to join her on Dunn, as townish. I think in that context her being pissed at people for not townreading her and assuming that she is the shining beacon of towniness is consistent with her mindset, it's just such a foreign mindset to me.

implo, responding here because it's where you actually talk about it but I don't think that anything that Andy did is really particularly clearing for the slot?

I mean, my impression of andante is that she is intense and scattered regardless with a tendency to tunnel as town and to fake tunnel as scum, all mixed in with a big ole helping of emotional volatility.

but looking back at her ISO... idk, I'm not seeing it really. I don't have her as locked in scum, but I think she was (1) overly sensitive about the wagon on her, a wagon which was only at 3 and which I now know was 2/3 town and quite possibly 3/3 town. I don't particularly care for the meta arguments, but I think she is overly worried in posts like 454 and 459 for the amount of actual pressure and I don't think the fact she might react like that as town is clearing. the PR claim so early is also, I think, way too preemptive. it's unfortunate because I think if she's town she does a lot of suboptimal stuff that gives her cover as scum basically.

she then super hard OMGUS' on Aisa who I'm currently town on, then pushes now confirmed town invisibility which I think is an awful push, then pushes on me for filler questions, then town reads enchant who even being town I think looked objectively terrible and I don't regret limming him at all (again, <3 u buddy)

uhh I have to go now but there is more I think

tl;dr Andy being indignant and irritated not town indicative

[Umlaut]

Seeking a replacement for Deltabreedy.

[Cephrir]

Seeking a replacement for Deltabreedy.

Kill this immediately

[Aureal]

However, whiteknighting townies is a thing, scum not always pushing the obvious suspects is a thing, and implosion talks almost like he has never seen the scum playstyle of "pop in a couple times a day, state a couple reads, and get out" (<3)

It definitely is a thing and that post does sort of give me those vibes now that you point it out. Maybe because talking about it in terms of 'liking' is reminding me of another game where scum slightly pocketed me by lightly pushing against my wagon (which his partner was constantly trying to stir up ofc). Okay yeah, that it was phrased like "I don't like Aureal but I don't want them gone" but I think that's because he was also trying to pocket LLD.

[Aureal]

Seeking a replacement for Deltabreedy.

Kill this immediately

What, you think it's contagious? The slot might be slightly cursed with illness and now Delta's VLA for a couple days like he usually is this time of week and so he can't get into the game after all, I don't think that's scum-indicative.

[Umlaut]

fireisredsir replaces Deltabreedy.

[fireisredsir]

whats up

[fireisredsir]

Seeking a replacement for Deltabreedy.

Kill this immediately

no wait don't

[fireisredsir]

reading

strongest opinion in the first few pages is sheep town

skitter posts are making me narrow eyes a lil bit but im often sus of skitter early and then figure it out later so we'll see how that develops

[fireisredsir]

sometimes people in mafia games say the phrase "difference check" and i honestly don't know what it means but from context im gonna try to make a guess at how to use it and say that ceph reaction to sheep in 129 and implo's reaction in 141 is a difference check

for some reason ceph's feels much more like a town reading the game and sorting people and implo feels more like someone who is informed and sees a town person making a towny post and being like "well i guess they must be obvtown now"

he also feels a little self-aware of his own approach to games in 139 in a way that makes me feel like he might be actively thinking about that and trying to match it, idk that's a weak feeling

[skitter30]

Heya fire
Those are certainly interesting takes

[skitter30]

Hard to keep all the replacements straight in my mind

[fireisredsir]

bluh this game is getting serious too fast which i have recently learned is a trait of games i don't get invested in

VOTE: drew why not

i was gonna ask if you wanted to have a second rvs rn to make up for the original one being short and lacking in whimsy and fun

but then i thought you might think i was trying to pocket you by asking

but then i think you tend to make this sort of post at times so maybe it'll appeal to you if you're town and you'll find me as town and all will be well

but maybe writing out how im aware of that it could appeal to you undercuts it

[skitter30]

I think i can vote fire