Mini Normal 2305 | GAME OVER

[OopsieDaisy]

Fun game, thanks all!

Yea I had a blast, thanks for everyone who replaced in and especially Shea for keeping the entire game running for us <3

[humaneatingmonkey]

metaphorically speaking, i will slap and splash water on your face right now and shake the living hell out of your rigid body and slap your face some more if i can.

i got a mod warning for this and id like to clarify that i do not wish to impose physical harm on any of the players especially the worst

[curiouskarmadog]

dear lord...thanks for the replacements and the replacement mod!

[curiouskarmadog]

while not actually being confirmable and

sounding kinda like a scummy claim

too

this is what I grappled with.

[curiouskarmadog]

metaphorically speaking, i will slap and splash water on your face right now and shake the living hell out of your rigid body and slap your face some more if i can.

i got a mod warning for this and id like to clarify that i do not wish to impose physical harm on any of the players especially the worst

interesting I also got a mod warning (first time) for this game. apparently you cant ask someone why they havent replaced out. feel like that must be "new".

[humaneatingmonkey]

you cant bully someone into replacing out anymore, my rights have been taken away from me

[camelCasedSnivy]

gg thanks status quo for coming in clutch

[Save The Dragons]

gg

thanks for modding too tsq and umlaut

[Umlaut]

Really sorry for flaking, it's not something I ever thought I would do as a mod and not something I hope to ever do again. I'm glad the game was able to finish normally.

[curiouskarmadog]

you cant bully someone into replacing out anymore, my rights have been taken away from me

it wasnt so much bullying as to wondering why they were in a game they didnt want to play. thus why I was suspicious of Gera.

[Thestatusquo]

It's newish

[bob3141]

Yep came into this game and solved it right away thats why you couldnt see me solving. Greets was pretty much a rosetta stone for me

gg

[the worst]

hi i reviewed this very thrilling and complex setup

what was the motivation behind the town mason finder?
it's a neat variation to an already riveting setup so not implying criticism just super curious

the laws of the mafiascum universe say "friends and enemies is a balanced open setup but a scumsided closed setup"

i felt that the mason finder is a role that didn't give any hard EV points for town, but it could potentially help town, while not actually being confirmable and sounding kinda like a scummy claim too

makes sense, I quite like that a well-intended town mason finder can accidentally increase scum's ev via dayplay (like, for example, what happened here )

[the worst]

metaphorically speaking, i will slap and splash water on your face right now and shake the living hell out of your rigid body and slap your face some more if i can.

i got a mod warning for this and id like to clarify that i do not wish to impose physical harm on any of the players especially the worst

ilu monkey.

[Bingle]

When you're town you're in a unique position to know your range and limits, what you're capable of in the game and what you have done that you wouldn't have done as the baddies. Capitalise on it and make it clear enough what the differences are that it can be followed by the thread at large

IMO having this trait is the definition of "Being bad at scum." :shrugs:

[Bingle]

the laws of the mafiascum universe say "friends and enemies is a balanced open setup but a scumsided closed setup"

I would say that this isn't necessarily true. Most opens are scumsided as closeds, but there is very little counterplay to 3 masons. Claiming any significant amount of power as scum isn't believable with three masons in the setup and cc's just aren't a thing. I also don't think this setup was bad from a balance perspective. I think it was not the kind of setup I enjoy, but I also don't usually play normals because that's true of a lot of normals.

[Infinity 324]

i was spectating for a while and was so sure hem was scum lol

[schadd_]

i would suspect that the difference btwn open and closed friends & enemies is negligible

[Thestatusquo]

I would disagree.

[Thestatusquo]

I mean I guess define negligible? Within +/-5% wr? Or something even less than that?

[schadd_]

within 5%, sure

[Thestatusquo]

I guess I think its probably more than that? Maybe I'm overestimating the effect of information ig.

[schadd_]

i get that, and as town you enjoy having the information. but i don't really imagine that there's a significant amount of productive stuff you do with the fact that "this is a masons setup". usually when people claim mason it's like "well alright i guess you're a mason" (although hilariously, one of the two or three times i've run a friends & enemies variant in the normal queue i had a mason get executed d1 after claiming with a partner. so that's a data point. but i think it's otherwise, you know, extremely rare, and should be preventable with forethought as to how the endgame plays out). on the other hand, the free inform to scum that "there are masons in this setup" in the open version seems useful, as (i believe) masons are by far the easiest PRs to hunt for, and also you can feel free to e.g. kill northsidegal n1 if you're not in a hurry to hunt down investigatives or whatever. although the masons are free to try to play stealthily & the town can try to avoid running up masons and stuff like that, etc etc. it just kinda adds up to a wash to me.

there's definitely a bunch of other marginal differences to playing normal vs playing open that make it hard to say the winrate would actually end up being similar. i sort of suspect that people just approach normal games differently by virtue of the fact that there might be a neapolitan that randomly gets like 4 results and wins the game for you, or something like that. like the general appeal of playing normal games is that sometimes there is a cool mechanical situation that you want to be in the midst of, with the tradeoff that like some percentage of the games wind up barely being mafia in terms of what decides the outcome. whereas if you sign up for the friends and enemies setup you're probably ready to do the scumhunting without help. and there's probably a bunch of other slight things like that which are hard to place

[humaneatingmonkey]

waiting for the pts

[Thestatusquo]

the pts were released immediately after the game