DragonEater70's Mini Normal Review, July 2023 (Released)

[implosion]

Thanks, and sorry for the late reply - been busy the past few days.

I'll put it in the review queue. FYI, SKs are not normal in mini normals, only in larges.

Okay, I'll change it:

3 scum:
1 multitasking mafia combined rolecop tracker
1 multitasking mafia roleblocker
1 informed multitasking mafia doctor (informed of the existence of at least one investigative)

10 town:
1 1-shot novice cop neighbor
1 even-night vigilante neighbor
1 gunsmith
7 vanilla townies

[implosion]

Primary: DkKoba
Secondary: mastina

[mastina]

Well this is scumsided by...a lot.

[DkKoba]

yeah, the hood being OP doesn't offset the scum power

right off the bat i would 100% remove the informed info for mafia, I'll let you chime in what your intended primary idea with the setup was so we can revise into a direction that would still keep the idea intact

[DkKoba]

well the hood isn't even that OP, just noticed the 1 shot alongside the novice

[DkKoba]

I will say when you create a hood that has a self clearing role and an absolute investigative, it makes the setup hinge around how that plays out because its a very powerful dynamic to have a town only hood like that.

[DragonEater70]

Okay so the initial idea I had was a mason cop and/or mason vig, obviously this is extremely strong so I changed it to a neighbors. Then I added the gimmick of there being multiple investigative roles, but none of which who could break the game (I originally also had a detective and an SK but I was told SK is not normal).

What I don't understand is how could you say the neighborhood is OP and also say the game is scumsided?

But anyway would this be more balanced?


3 scum (all multitasking):
1 mafia tracker
1 mafia rolestopper
1 mafia doctor neighbor

10 town:
1 1-shot novice cop neighbor
1 even-night vigilante neighbor
1 gunsmith neighbor
1 detective
6 vanilla townies

2 neighborhoods: cop/vig, mafia doc/gunsmith

[DkKoba]

Ok so look at it this way ->
The mafia roles are able to deny town the extra flips/clears/guilties the roles they have are meant to generate. Mafia Doctor and rolestopper effectively neuter the gunsmith vig and somewhat the cop. Then the tracker make it very easy to find investigative town roles

The comment wrt OP combo is that yes its scumsided but that 1 aspect is swingy enough to cause a big snowball effect with the right circumstances


Here's an idea:

Remove the tracker, have it be a Goon
Tone down the other scum roles
Spread town power more and add more of it. Centralizing strong roles can cause unfair situations for mafia, having multiple investigative should plan around not allowing town to PoE the mafia down through night play luck, the gunsmith gets a guilty n1, then n2 detective gets another etc.(wifom tends to not work)

Maybe something along the lines of this:

Mafia:
Mafia Goon
Mafia Odd Night Rolestopper
Mafia Disloyal Doctor

Town:
1-Shot Novice Cop
Even Night Vigilante Neighbor A
Odd Night Gunsmith Neighbor A
Lazy Novice Tracker
2 Shot Complex Jailkeeper
5 Vanilla Town

This probably swings back to town favor on paper but current site meta likely plays out with a mistake that removes usefulness of at least 1 town PR, with ability to clear multiple vanillas.

Vig: is inherently clear, can shoot scum anytime they are able to shoot, scum may end up saving their kill which with an unclaimed doc may be a false guilty
Gunsmith: will have an easy time getting soft innos rather than guilties due to how scum roles are setup. Is baited into checking their hoodmate for 1 wasted check but will also be able to claim by proxy
Tracker: may out any PR for mafia, has potential to out 2 at once with the rolestopper lategame
Cop: difficult to get a check but will be absolute and without any confusion
2 shot Complex Jailkeeper: complex to not be able to have free saves on any clear VTs or early game get a block on the likely to lead kill Goon

[DragonEater70]

Okay I like this setup a lot. Can I use it?

[DkKoba]

Worst case scenario is town somehow miseliminates a PR d1, worst case without bad play is the JK gets outed d1. However in this world you manage to get at least 1 investigative check.

I will let mastina contribute thoughts and see if I overlooked anything but feel free to write up the role PMs and post your rules in the meantime

[DragonEater70]

Okay, will do this later on

[mastina]

I think the setup for 7 is balanced. Swingy, to be sure. But balanced overall imo.

[DkKoba]

another point to add is that there is a decent enough likliehood that town gains a miselimination through the vig + jailkeeper - which I forgot to mention but I did keep in mind there, which is why complex is the choice there

decent chance the way the setup plays out is at some point between day 1 and 2 a non JK/vig PR ends up claiming, vig shoots n2 and a save occurs on the claimed non vig, non JK PR

and if this doesnt happen, then investigatives are living the night more likely than not.

[implosion]

I'm just going to opt to put this in signups for the sake of expediency; please get role PMs out soon.

[DkKoba]

Okay, will do this later on

any update on this?

also hbd mastina

[DragonEater70]

What I have so far:

Vanilla Townie

Welcome, PLAYERNAME! You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no active abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Mafia Goon

Welcome, PLAYERNAME!

You are a

Mafia Goon

. Your partners are

BADGUY1

and

BADGUY2

.

You and your mafia partners share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated and there is at least 1 surviving Mafia member, or when nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

MAFIA DISLOYAL DOCTOR

Welcome, PLAYERNAME!

You are a

Mafia Disloyal Doctor

. Your partners are

BADGUY1

and

BADGUY2

.

Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be protected from one kill that night. This ability will fail if used on a member of your faction.

You and your mafia partners share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a doctor action in the same night phase. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated and there is at least 1 surviving Mafia member, or when nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

[DragonEater70]

I think I will have the rest done in the next 12 hours

[DragonEater70]

EVEN NIGHT VIGILANTE NEIGHBOR

Welcome, PLAYERNAME! You are a

Town Even-Night Vigilante Neighbor

.

On even-numbered nights (N2, N4, etc.), you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will kill that player.

You are in a neighborhood with NAME. You can find the thread here. You may post there at any time.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

GUNSMITH NEIGHBOR

Welcome, PLAYERNAME! You are a

Town Gunsmith Neighbor

.

At night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn if that player has a gun. You will receive one of the following messages: "Has a gun." or "Does not have a gun."
If the action fails, you will receive "No result."

You are in a neighborhood with NAME. You can find the thread here. You may post there at any time.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Vanilla Townie

Welcome, PLAYERNAME! You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no active abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

MAFIA ODD-NIGHT ROLESTOPPER

Welcome, PLAYERNAME!

You are a

Mafia Odd-Night Rolestopper

. Your partners are

BADGUY1

and

BADGUY2

.

On odd-numbered nights (N1, N3, etc.), you may target a player. All other actions targeting that player will fail.

You and your mafia partners share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a rolestop action in the same night phase. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk at any time.

You win when the Town has been eliminated and there is at least 1 surviving Mafia member, or when nothing can stop this from occurring.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

[DragonEater70]

Novice 1-shot cop

Welcome, PLAYERNAME! You are a

Town Novice 1-Shot Cop

.

Once per game, at night, but not on the first night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, I will tell you that player's alignment.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

Lazy Novice Tracker

Welcome, PLAYERNAME! You are a

Town Lazy Novice Tracker

.

At night, but not on the first night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn who that player targeted with their action that night ("PLAYER visited PLAYER"). If the target player didn't target anyone, you'll be informed of this ("PLAYER visited no one"). If the action fails, you will receive "No result." If there is only 1 member of the mafia left, you may no longer use this ability.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

2-shot complex jailkeeper

Welcome, PLAYERNAME! You are a

Town 2-Shot Complex Jailkeeper

.

Twice per game, at night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will be protected from kills for the night, but all their actions will fail. This action fails if it is used on a vanilla role.

The game thread is here.

Confirm by replying with your role name and alignment.

[DragonEater70]

Since I have no idea what I am doing (this is first time modding after all), this is probably extremely inconsistent, so feel free to point out anything problematic.

Can I just rip off the rules from someone else?

[DragonEater70]

Rules

Taken from Plotinus, who was inspired by Equinox's, Glork's and Ether's rulesets. And then there is a tiny bit from Thestatusquo just for good measure :p

important bit

• Day 1: up to 10 days, Day 2+ up to 7 days, Night: 48 hours.
  
• Majority eliminations
  
• 36 hours before prod, 24 hours before replacement, 24 hour weekends
  
• I have some unusual rules about animated GIFs, tiny text, and prodging. Scroll down for details.
  
• Don’t be a dick

1. Follow all site rules.
   
   
2. Mod colour
   – My mod colour is
   Orange
   . Don't use it.
   
3. Behaviour
   - Don’t be a dick. This is a heated game but toxicity will not be tolerated. Attack the play not the player. If your fellow players tell you to stop, you must stop. If you do not stop, I will tell you to stop. If you still do not stop, you will be force-replaced. Asking people to stop voting you or to stop scumhunting you entirely doesn't count for this rule and you may find yourself eliminated if you try it.
   
4. Don't talk about ongoing games
   - You may not talk to each other about this game outside of threads I have created for this purpose. You may not talk about other ongoing games in this thread.
   
5. Animated GIFs
   - are of the devil, but they are permitted behind spoilers if clearly labelled as such.
   
6. Tiny text
   - is also of the devil, keep it 70+ please.
   
7. Provable randomness
   - is against the rules. Saying that you rolled a dice is fine, using dice tags or random.org is not.
   
8. Claiming scum
   - by yourself is fine. Claiming scum with another player is against the rules.
   
9. Cryptography
   - is forbidden. Breadcrumbing is okay.
   
10. Confirmation
    - You have about 72 hours to confirm your role and your alignment by PM. Game will start sooner if everyone confirms. Posting in a private topic counts as confirmation.
    
11. Days
    - Day 1 lasts 10 days and other days last 7 days. Extensions may be granted if there are replacements, or if the majority of players make it clear to me that an extension is desired.
    
12. Activity
    - You must post at least once every 36 hours or I will Prod you. You then have 24 hours to post in the game thread or I will replace you. If you come back before I find a replacement, you can stay. The activity timers run at half-speed on weekends. Players can request me to prod somebody early. This will only count as an official prod if you don't post before you would have been due for a prod. If you haven't posted in the 24 hours before the thread is locked for night, you must reply to the night start PM or you will be replaced during the night.
    
13. Vacation/Limited Access
    If you need to be absent for longer than this, you should declare
    V/LA
    in bold in the thread like this: [
    b]

    @Mod: I will be v/la until Thursday

    [
    /b]. While you are V/LA, you will be nudged once every 54 hours. Two nudges equals one prod. If you have not posted game advancing content in 5 days, regardless of V/LA status, you will be replaced.
    
14. Prodging
    - A naked "prod dodge" does not reset the prod timer. To avoid being prodded/replaced for inactivity, include some game advancing content in your prodges, such as "got prodded; xxxx is still scum."
    
15. Quoting
    - You may not quote (or copy paste) any private information into the thread, including your role PM and any mod communication.
    
16. Voting
    - Votes must be in bold in the format VOTE: Plotinus or
    Vote: Plotinus
    . Strong preference for using vote tags instead of bold tags. Unvotes are nice but not required. If I think it’s a vote, it’s a vote, no tricks. Type [
    v]Plotinus[
    /v] to vote and [
    uv]Plotinus[
    /uv] to unvote.
    
17. Elimination
    - Days end early when a simple majority of players (50% of living players + 1 rounded down) vote to eliminate somebody. If a majority is not reached at deadline or if a majority of the players vote for no elimination, the day will end without an elimination. At evens, 50% is sufficient for no elimination.
    
18. Twilight
    - Begins when a majority is reached and lasts until I lock the thread. You're still alive until I flip you so you can talk in any game threads you have access to until then, but no votes or unvotes will be counted.
    
19. Night
    - Night lasts at least 48 hours. The night phase can be shortened if every living player -- even those with no night actions -- agrees to it and if I'm not busy.
    
20. Action submissions
    - You may submit actions via PM (if town) or PT (if scum). If the actions are not submitted by the deadline then you do nothing. You can change your mind as many times as you like before the deadline.
    
21. Reminders
    - If I don't hear from you about your night actions, I'll PM you 24 hours before the deadline. This doesn't count as a prod. If I still don't hear from you, you will take no action.
    
22. Play to win
    - this particular game, not some future one, and keep it fun!
    
23. Have fun
    - This is not an option. Games are only good when players are having fun. If you are not having fun, replace out. There is no shame in this. I have no problem with it. You are not a bad person. Both you and the game will be happier for it.

[DkKoba]

Since I have no idea what I am doing (this is first time modding after all), this is probably extremely inconsistent, so feel free to point out anything problematic.

Can I just rip off the rules from someone else?

that is tradition

[DkKoba]

make sure to point out daytalk being always available(probably should be standardized into normal ruleset if it isn't atp huh) + the fact mafia have multitasking inherently
otherwise role PMs at a glance look good, will do a more thorough look when they're all done.

[DkKoba]

the former statement applies to your "important bit" for rules(or some people like to put that info in a separate post, alongside any global informed information, for instance)

[DragonEater70]

Rules

Taken from Plotinus, who was inspired by Equinox's, Glork's and Ether's rulesets. And then there is a tiny bit from Thestatusquo just for good measure :p

important bit

• Day 1: up to 10 days, Day 2+ up to 7 days, Night: 48 hours.
  
• Mafia is multitasking by default
  
• All Private Topics are open during both Day and Night
  
• Majority eliminations
  
• 36 hours before prod, 24 hours before replacement, 24 hour weekends
  
• I have some unusual rules about animated GIFs, tiny text, and prodging. Scroll down for details.
  
• Don’t be a dick

1. Follow all site rules.
   
   
2. Mod colour
   – My mod colour is
   Orange
   . Don't use it.
   
3. Behaviour
   - Don’t be a dick. This is a heated game but toxicity will not be tolerated. Attack the play not the player. If your fellow players tell you to stop, you must stop. If you do not stop, I will tell you to stop. If you still do not stop, you will be force-replaced. Asking people to stop voting you or to stop scumhunting you entirely doesn't count for this rule and you may find yourself eliminated if you try it.
   
4. Don't talk about ongoing games
   - You may not talk to each other about this game outside of threads I have created for this purpose. You may not talk about other ongoing games in this thread.
   
5. Animated GIFs
   - are of the devil, but they are permitted behind spoilers if clearly labelled as such.
   
6. Tiny text
   - is also of the devil, keep it 70+ please.
   
7. Provable randomness
   - is against the rules. Saying that you rolled a dice is fine, using dice tags or random.org is not.
   
8. Claiming scum
   - by yourself is fine. Claiming scum with another player is against the rules.
   
9. Cryptography
   - is forbidden. Breadcrumbing is okay.
   
10. Confirmation
    - You have about 72 hours to confirm your role and your alignment by PM. Game will start sooner if everyone confirms. Posting in a private topic counts as confirmation.
    
11. Days
    - Day 1 lasts 10 days and other days last 7 days. Extensions may be granted if there are replacements, or if the majority of players make it clear to me that an extension is desired.
    
12. Activity
    - You must post at least once every 36 hours or I will Prod you. You then have 24 hours to post in the game thread or I will replace you. If you come back before I find a replacement, you can stay. The activity timers run at half-speed on weekends. Players can request me to prod somebody early. This will only count as an official prod if you don't post before you would have been due for a prod. If you haven't posted in the 24 hours before the thread is locked for night, you must reply to the night start PM or you will be replaced during the night.
    
13. Vacation/Limited Access
    If you need to be absent for longer than this, you should declare
    V/LA
    in bold in the thread like this: [
    b]

    @Mod: I will be v/la until Thursday

    [
    /b]. While you are V/LA, you will be nudged once every 54 hours. Two nudges equals one prod. If you have not posted game advancing content in 5 days, regardless of V/LA status, you will be replaced.
    
14. Prodging
    - A naked "prod dodge" does not reset the prod timer. To avoid being prodded/replaced for inactivity, include some game advancing content in your prodges, such as "got prodded; xxxx is still scum."
    
15. Quoting
    - You may not quote (or copy paste) any private information into the thread, including your role PM and any mod communication.
    
16. Voting
    - Votes must be in bold in the format VOTE: Plotinus or
    Vote: Plotinus
    . Strong preference for using vote tags instead of bold tags. Unvotes are nice but not required. If I think it’s a vote, it’s a vote, no tricks. Type [
    v]Plotinus[
    /v] to vote and [
    uv]Plotinus[
    /uv] to unvote.
    
17. Elimination
    - Days end early when a simple majority of players (50% of living players + 1 rounded down) vote to eliminate somebody. If a majority is not reached at deadline or if a majority of the players vote for no elimination, the day will end without an elimination. At evens, 50% is sufficient for no elimination.
    
18. Twilight
    - Begins when a majority is reached and lasts until I lock the thread. You're still alive until I flip you so you can talk in any game threads you have access to until then, but no votes or unvotes will be counted.
    
19. Night
    - Night lasts at least 48 hours. The night phase can be shortened if every living player -- even those with no night actions -- agrees to it and if I'm not busy.
    
20. Action submissions
    - You may submit actions via PM (if town) or PT (if scum). If the actions are not submitted by the deadline then you do nothing. You can change your mind as many times as you like before the deadline.
    
21. Reminders
    - If I don't hear from you about your night actions, I'll PM you 24 hours before the deadline. This doesn't count as a prod. If I still don't hear from you, you will take no action.
    
22. Play to win
    - this particular game, not some future one, and keep it fun!
    
23. Have fun
    - This is not an option. Games are only good when players are having fun. If you are not having fun, replace out. There is no shame in this. I have no problem with it. You are not a bad person. Both you and the game will be happier for it.