[SETUP] Extra Flip Nightless

[camelCasedSnivy]

i realized the open setup review threads were for if you actually wanted to run the setup so i was right to make a topic for the setup

anyway here's another idea which might be too swingy

Extra Flip Nightless

5x

Vanilla Townies

2x

Mafia Goon

The

Mafia

do not have a nightkill.

Upon the elimination of a

Mafia Goon

, they must confirm the alignment of another player publicly.

Spoiler: VT PM

VT PM

Hello camelCasedSnivy!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

!

You win when

both Mafia Goons are dead.

Spoiler: Goon PM

Goon PM

Hello camelCasedSnivy!

You are a

Mafia Goon

!

You share a PT with your partner, camelCasedServine, here.

Upon being eliminated, you must confirm another player's alignment publicly.

You win when

you and your partner control 50% of the votes.

[Political Clout]

Maybe add another townie? I think this is a modified white flag game iirc.

[camelCasedSnivy]

yeah its supposed to be like white flag

originally i was thinking of 6v3 but then scum being killed day 1 would be a bit too hard for scum imho

i think i can calculate the EV of this?

[Political Clout]

it only gives them two days to guess correctly. I feel like that is a lot of pressure. If you're in a bind consider the newbie queue mechanics as it is made for optimal fairness to newbie players they have a total of 3 days to guess if they continually guess incorrectly. your game enters lim or lose on day 2.

[Political Clout]

it's just something to consider. You should try running the game.

[camelCasedSnivy]

ive never modded a game before in my life and im not sure i want to

anyway I made a whole csv file of EVs for this and...

5x

Vanilla Townies

and 3x

Mafia Goons

gives me a 48.75% town EV, however

6x

Vanilla Townies

and 3x

Mafia Goons

gives me a 61.07% town EV

[camelCasedSnivy]

im not sure if EVs matter too much at this scale but either seem fine to me

[camelCasedSnivy]

i wonder what happens if I give a townie in the 4v3 spot a vengekill (where the IC doesnt trigger)

[Political Clout]

Maybe when the first goon is eliminated you might want to wait to reveal who they claim as innocent until the next day or shield the confirmed innocent from the kill.

[usesPython]

Maybe when the first goon is eliminated you might want to wait to reveal who they claim as innocent until the next day or shield the confirmed innocent from the kill.

It's nightless, mafia can't kill

The setup's really swingy and pretty much forces scum to powerwolf for the d2 win, might be more interesting to have the IC be granted if town gets limmed on d1 only to let scum bus as well as give town a chance for a comeback

[camelCasedSnivy]

The setup's really swingy and pretty much forces scum to powerwolf for the d2 win, might be more interesting to have the IC be granted if town gets limmed on d1 only to let scum bus as well as give town a chance for a comeback

yeah that might work out

i was also thinking if i could add an extra townie but get rid of white flag (originally this setup was that every mafia had to reveal an IC but 2 ICs with 1 goon is auto for town)

[the worst]

this reminds me a lil of secrets of the anuket topaz, which is like high-key one of my favourite setups

i suppose in lots of ways that shares similarities with 6:3 in this setup. it is higher scum agency and (i think) probably deliberately a bit closer towards balanced.

It's nightless, mafia can't kill

The setup's really swingy and pretty much forces scum to powerwolf for the d2 win, might be more interesting to have the IC be granted if town gets limmed on d1 only to let scum bus as well as give town a chance for a comeback

this is worth remembering, to an extent, but it's a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy kinda situation too. scum are forced to make wild risky plays to get that coveted "deepwolf" position to catch an early win. but diligent town should be on the lookout for wild plays. so maybe that person overplaying is just, like, a worried townie

i do kind of abstractly agree that you avoid gameplay limitations by varying the core mechanic or introducing another mechanic. idk exactly how though!

[camelCasedSnivy]

I don't want to make it

too

complicated though, I feel like then the setup just becomes a bit confusing

hmm

[camelCasedSnivy]

Option 1

6x

Vanilla Townies

3x

Mafia Goons

The

Mafia

do not have a nightkill.

Upon the elimination of the first

Mafia Goon

, they must choose one player to turn into an

Innocent Child

, confirming their alignment publically.

Option 2

5x

Vanilla Townies

3x

Mafia Goons

The

Mafia

do not have a nightkill.

Upon the elimination of a

Mafia Goon

after Day 1, they must choose one player to turn into an

Innocent Child

, confirming their alignment publically. If a

Mafia Goon

is eliminated with an

Innocent Child

already alive, the

Town

win the game.

[camelCasedSnivy]

I didn't calculate Opt 2 EV because I gotta implement cycles and 20 minutes of extra work is too much for me

Opt 1 EV is about 46.15079% for Town

[camelCasedSnivy]

Originally for Opt 1 I was gonna do 5v3 but then the EV for Town drops to 35.8928% and that's low enough to cause a tremendous different despite it being a social game

[the worst]

suggestion which might get us a bit closer to that 50-55% sweet spot, and also increases agency... what if it were 7:3, and on the first mafia goon's flip, they had to IC a townie & had a choice to make a single nightkill?

note this could be used to remove perceived "weak link" scum from the game

[camelCasedSnivy]

hmm ill try it

[camelCasedSnivy]

oh i always thought that being scumsided was slightly better than being townsided

if we wanted 50-55% we could just do 5:2 with one IC which lands at 53.4127% town EV

[the worst]

oh rad!

we've tended to balance closed setups very slightly in favour of town, historically
totally personal opinion but i think opens are probably better balanced towards 50%, but with a slight preference for town ev

[camelCasedSnivy]

well yeah but if i were to mod this i wouldnt do it as closed

[the worst]

oh of course - just mentioning for ev% context

[camelCasedSnivy]

Spoiler: Childmakers

Childmakers

5x

Vanilla Townies

2x

Mafia Goon

The

Mafia

do not have a nightkill.

Upon the elimination of a

Mafia Goon

, they must convert a player to an

Innocent Child

, confirming their alignment publically.

Spoiler: VT PM

VT PM

Hello camelCasedSnivy!

You are a

Vanilla Townie

!

You win when

both Mafia Goons are dead.

Spoiler: Goon PM

Goon PM

Hello camelCasedSnivy!

You are a

Mafia Goon

!

You share a PT with your partner, camelCasedServine, here.

Upon being eliminated, you must convert a player to an

Innocent Child

, confirming their alignment publically.

You win when

you and your partner control 50% of the votes.

[DragonEater70]

anyway I made a whole csv file of EVs for this and...

How do you actually do that btw? I've always been trying to calculate it in my head and gave myself a headache

[DragonEater70]

The setup's really swingy and pretty much forces scum to powerwolf for the d2 win, might be more interesting to have the IC be granted if town gets limmed on d1 only to let scum bus as well as give town a chance for a comeback

I agree with this, it makes more sense thematically.