Mini Normal 2311 | FIN

[Hu Tao]

Good work yall!

[biancospino]

There are a couple things I feel I need to talk about.

The heip replace was, I feel, quite alignment indicative; it is possible that I do feel this way due to bias, having known of the exact circumstances of it, and in hindsight the little reminder not to discuss the replacement may have done more harm that good. Of course, I couldn't allow discussion about that, but discussing replacements is already against site rules and explicitly reminding about that may have been somewhat poisoning the well -- but eh, hindsight is 20/20.

For another thing, the decision I've took D4 of extending the deadline was taken out of essentially necessity, 'cause I felt I needed to do something to resuscitate the game. However, while it hasn't ended up mattering in the end, it was indeed likely most favourable an action to the Village; as such, it

was

indeed an act of mod interference in the game, which is bad, and I just tought the balance of the con and pros on that executive decision was favourable; if the Wolves' faction disagrees with my assessment and feels cheated by it, I understand fully and apologize. Especially since both of the mod actions I felt the need to comment on here may have brought in a slight pro-Village bias.

[AnimatedWiz]

I, uh, can't really speak for everyone here, but I didn't really think much of the replacement at all—this might be due to me townreading heipizhu heavily when it occurred, but I just thought they were busy and didn't think they could play much.

[JacksonVirgo]

The replacement was pretty damning, but I feel I did good enough at focusing away from it so it didn't really ultimately matter. The deadline change was also perfectly okay, I don't consider it super integrity-breaking or anything but I respect the transparency.

[DragonEater70]

So I read this game, when I saw Passenger's theory of two scum neighbors I thought it was wild. Turns out it was correct. Crazy stuff.

[JacksonVirgo]

So I read this game, when I saw Passenger's theory of two scum neighbors I thought it was wild. Turns out it was correct. Crazy stuff.

Honestly, seemed to come out of nowhere and not sure why they would throw that out with so much confidence.

[DragonEater70]

Yeah

Props to Passenger though!

[biancospino]

Ah, and while I'm at it. There appears to have been some confusion about mechs, mostly about what a TrafficAnalyst does exactly; that I couldn't clear up in thread since nobody asked. So I'm clearing them now:

• I'm not actually 100% sure a sole wolf + a Traitor is actually normal, but if it is, the sole wolf would have daytalk (with themselves). The existence of the wolf PT, and much less of daytalk, doesn't in any way imply that there are more than 1 non-Traitor wolves.
  
• Daytalk has no bearing at all in what results a TrafficAnalyst would receive.
  
• The following is the full list of things that, in a Normal game, would return a positive result to a TrafficAnalyst:
  • Scum that have access to the scum PT (i.e., are not Traitors) with at least one living non-Traitor partner;
    
  • Neighbors in a hood with at least one other living neighbor;
    
  • Masons in a masonry with at least one living fellow;
    
  • Mailmans that could act that Night (regardless of whether or not they actually act);
    
  • Neighborizers that had already neighborized, in a previous Night, at least one of the currently living players;
    
  • any player that has been neighborized by a living Neighborizer in a previous Night;
    
  • any player that has been neighborized by a dead Neighborizer in a previous Night, if the same Neighborizer also has already neighborized another of the currently living players
    (with the same Neighborizer ability; I believe something like a [multitasking Neighborizer Neighborizer] would actually have two separate hoods for each of their NB abilities)

[JacksonVirgo]

Nah sole wolf + traitor isn't. I knew it wasn't when I said it.

[ZZZX]

Woo!

Thanks mod for the game. Was a super interesting setup for sure.

[Random Nurse]

So... is it or isn't it Normal to have a Traitor and one Scum, but only the one Scum have Daytalk?

If so that would be so trippy with a Town Traffic Analyst in play.

[JacksonVirgo]

So... is it or isn't it Normal to have a Traitor and one Scum, but only the one Scum have Daytalk?

If so that would be so trippy with a Town Traffic Analyst in play.

[Random Nurse]

So... is it or isn't it Normal to have a Traitor and one Scum, but only the one Scum have Daytalk?

If so that would be so trippy with a Town Traffic Analyst in play.

OK, please don't get mad.

Would the Traitor and Goon both be considered members in the same group?

There's different variations of Traitor so which variant of Traitor is important.

[JacksonVirgo]

Nah so that means main faction mafia. So you need two main faction mafia at least or it’s not normal :)

[JacksonVirgo]

Traitor isn’t main faction mafia but aligned with the mafia

[biancospino]

So... is it or isn't it Normal to have a Traitor and one Scum, but only the one Scum have Daytalk?

If so that would be so trippy with a Town Traffic Analyst in play.

OK, please don't get mad.

Would the Traitor and Goon both be considered members in the same group?

There's different variations of Traitor so which variant of Traitor is important.

To be fair this doesn't say there must be a "main mafia faction" of at least two players, just that the mafia group must be made of at least two (which it is, even if there is a traitor outside of the main faction). Should probably be asked to the NRG, but I do strongly suspect that sole wolf+traitor it's either outright not normal or anyway would neither pass review.

That said, a game with a sole wolf+traitor would still have a (worthless) wolf pt, which with the setting of this game would have (uselessly) daytalk

[biancospino]

Also btw, in that case the TrafficAnalyst would receive a negative on

both

wolves. Daytalk with oneself is not enough to produce a positive TA result

[heipizhu4]

I think I should probably apologize for my replacement. I thought for a long while considering whether I should request this because
a) I know this replacement IS alignment indicative
b) The prodding timer is running out and I had no idea of how to argue against the scum neighbor idea
c) Keep lurking will make the scum's situation even worse...

So, I made my request. Thanks Jackson for showing me how to play under pressure in my slot and ggwp everyone!

[ZZZX]

I'd argue a traffic analyst with 2 scum who appear negative would be bordering on bastard- game territories. Which is why I didn't honestly even consider it.

As for your replacement heipizhu, I didn't think too much of it, and mostly its because I didnt want to try to, with the mod's notice and whatever.

[ZZZX]

By the way, if none minds, is it possible to have either/both the neighborhood/scum PT released? I am actually curious how the chat in the neighborhood went haha

[JacksonVirgo]

By the way, if none minds, is it possible to have either/both the neighborhood/scum PT released? I am actually curious how the chat in the neighborhood went haha

Waiting on ducky/blue I believe

[JacksonVirgo]

So, I made my request. Thanks Jackson for showing me how to play under pressure in my slot and ggwp everyone!

Yeah my tip generally is to never give up, even if you go down because how else would you really learn to deal with the heat if you don't deal with the heat ;)

[ZZZX]

So, I made my request. Thanks Jackson for showing me how to play under pressure in my slot and ggwp everyone!

Yeah my tip generally is to never give up, even if you go down because how else would you really learn to deal with the heat if you don't deal with the heat

This 100%

I have survived literal cop guilties doing that at some point lol

[biancospino]

By the way, if none minds, is it possible to have either/both the neighborhood/scum PT released? I am actually curious how the chat in the neighborhood went haha

Waiting on ducky/blue I believe

Yes. I did pm them and I'll give them a little bit of time to see if they open the pm, but otherwise I'll have them released before dinner in 5 hours.

[T3]

So I read this game, when I saw Passenger's theory of two scum neighbors I thought it was wild. Turns out it was correct. Crazy stuff.

Honestly, seemed to come out of nowhere and not sure why they would throw that out with so much confidence.

I’d been thinking of modding a game for a while with the exact same Town Backup Neighbor and 2 Scum Neighbor concept, so when I saw everyone claim I was pretty sure I was correct.