DragonEater70's Micro Normal review, November 2023

[DkKoba]

oh we axed the neap

[Alisae]

ok how about this:

Novice Tracker
Odd Night Neapolitan

reintroduce the roleblocker

@Dragoneater?

[DkKoba]

Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon

Town 1-Shot BP
Town Novice Tracker
Town Odd-Night Neapolitan
VT x4


probably a bad setup tbh

alternatively:

Mafia Goon x2

Town 1-Shot BP
Town Even Night Tracker
VT x5

[DragonEater70]

Would

Goons

Odd night tracker
1sBP
5 vt

Also work? Because even night tracker is basically 1 shot tracker.

[DragonEater70]

Due to setup size, I mean

[DragonEater70]

Or I can run it as a regular with lazy.

[DragonEater70]

Actually maybe just have the tracker be 2-shot to kerp it simple?

[Ausuka]

wait no lazy isn't a simple modifier

wtf lmao

I do not think tracker as a role needs nerfing. BP + full tracker vs goons has about 40% town winrate

as an open

, statistically.

I would strongly advise you do not pass a more scumsided version of that, frankly, especially for a game we are advertising as suitable for new players, although I am not a reviewer here.

[DragonEater70]

Wait, has bp + tracker been run as an open?

[Alisae]

matrix6

[Alisae]

also while it's somewhat adjacent, 2-shot bp + jk vs neapolitan goon has been a 9p micro that was ran before

[Ausuka]

Yeah it was a newbie setup.

Should probably note that in the final months of matrix6 there was a strategy where the BP would claim on page 1 and basically be clear because that's how opens work. I was on site at the time and pretty confident the BP + tracker setup was sub 40 wr before then

[Ausuka]

But yeah it got like 40 runs which is a very satisfactory sample size for me

[DragonEater70]

Okay yeah this statistic is bad

I do think my original idea is slightly more townsided but not overly so.

[DragonEater70]

Like the one in 0

[DkKoba]

wait no lazy isn't a simple modifier

wtf lmao

I do not think tracker as a role needs nerfing. BP + full tracker vs goons has about 40% town winrate

as an open

, statistically.

I would strongly advise you do not pass a more scumsided version of that, frankly, especially for a game we are advertising as suitable for new players, although I am not a reviewer here.

And it's also swingy in the wrong way, I'm more concerned about swing

[Ausuka]

Maybe we need to have a discussion in the nrg about acceptable levels of swing because it can be fairly nebulous. My personal view is that a single tracker is well below the threshold of what I would find unacceptable

[DkKoba]

It's almost certain that mafia will lose off a day 1 elimination, essentially, which would just lead to an incredibly frustrating experience.

(Tracker just isn't a great 9p role imo for this reason)

[Ausuka]

I don't see how that's almost certain at all. It's not almost certain mafia will lose if there's a cop in the game and that's basically what it is

[Ausuka]

Like if mafia get eliminated d1 and get tracked n1 and also don't kill the tracker, in the nicest way possible that is kind of their problem?

[Ausuka]

Like it's not like these are random variables

Playing around town power as scum is part of the game

[Ausuka]

I mean it's mostly up to you three to decide what to do here and maybe the tracker discussion could happen elsewhere but I specifically will not sign off on (even night tracker + bp vs goons) for the normal queue because I believe the normal listmod has some responsibility for maintaining consistent standards

[Ausuka]

I wouldn't do that for any setup I wouldn't personally pass as a reviewer but in extreme cases where I think winrate may be outside 30-70% range

[DkKoba]

Like if mafia get eliminated d1 and get tracked n1 and also don't kill the tracker, in the nicest way possible that is kind of their problem?

Moreso suddenly you have PoE slots getting cleared

Snowball effect etc.

Guess just my own personal philosophy not to allow snowball mechanics that kick an alignment while they're down

[Ausuka]

I think 7 v 2 mountainous is very scumsided and town having powers to generate clears is generally good

I don't think it's a particularly good idea to stop allowing roles like tracker/jk etc in micro normals.

Especially when stuff like even night tracker is also swingy because like. If town doesn't eliminate scum d1 or d2 it's literally just useless. Even if they get a guilty d3 is elo and scum fake guilties in elo pretty often