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Post Post #500 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:55 pm

Post by Elements »

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Post Post #501 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2023 7:32 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 499, Hu Tao wrote: VOTE: Naerys

I still don't see the naerys townread.
ick
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Post Post #502 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2023 7:37 pm

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 81, Arko wrote:
ORAM - Neutral -
Triggers a bit of scum feelings with me, but otherwise they feel normal townie. Their thoughts to me seem on the townie train of thought... but there have been a bit of things that have pinged scum. I'm not sure about it but there is a non-ignorable chance that it's scum trying to follow a townie-type train of thought without being a parrot or generic. I'm genuinely not sure where to place them, but definitely not enough scum feelings to put in null, and there is enough town to keep them out of null for me.
This feels like scum trying to rationalize giving their partner a better rating than they should get. Key indicator being the last segment about “enough to keep out of null” conflicts with the actual read.
In post 151, Arko wrote:
Klick - Neutral -
Generally needs to elaborate more. slightly disliked their predecessor, and I don't know what the actual fuck is going through klick right now. Please, please god elaborate with your thoughts
Feels like scum pushing their buddy with the express purpose of making their play better. I did the same to Cobblerfone in a recent 9:12 micro open

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On going back to check these, I actually feel good enough about this to act on it
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Post Post #503 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2023 8:19 pm

Post by DragonEater70 »

VC 2.03
Votecount 2.03


Testarossa (2):
Thomith, Naerys
Thomith (1):
Elements
Naerys (1):
Hu Tao
Elements (1):
Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (2):
Kittiesecret, Testarossa

With 7 players alive, it takes 4 votes to secure an elimination.

The deadline is
(expired on 2023-12-06 17:38:55)
.

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  • Use this link to find all mod posts, vote counts, etc.
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Post Post #504 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:25 pm

Post by Elements »

@mod
I'll be v/la on the 4th, 5th, 6th

Understood

- Dragon
Last edited by DragonEater70 on Sun Dec 03, 2023 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #505 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:42 pm

Post by Thomith »

Spoiler: Testarossa Post 480
In post 480, Testarossa wrote:
In post 471, Thomith wrote: Can you explain what you mean about my "self-conscious lines" because I genuinely dont know what you mean when you're saying that.

Just because you arent voting someone doesnt mean you're not suggesting them as an option.
My wagon had grown once before, so it's not out of the realm of possibilities that it could have happened again, while Kittie's wagon stagnated after only a few votes.

In all honesty I was following Black with the Enchant vote. I didn't like the push on her so thought there was a big enough chance of her being Town to see where the wagon went, and if enchant flipped town I feel it would have still given us a decent amount of information on black/others on the wagon. Admittedly I didnt expect the hammer to happen so quickly.
I think we talked about it before. I am on the fence about it for the whole game as it could just be a playstyle thing. Everytime someone scumreads you or feels uncertain about you, you are immediately summoned and jump straight out of the box to question the person. I can see why you would act like that as town to form better reads, but it also just looks like scum that is concerned to stay safe and tries to shoot down any possible suspicions.

I am questioning peoples reads on anyone, to try and figure out motivations for those reads. From my POV, anyone who is saying their are suspicious of me are wrong, because they are Town, so I'm trying to use my questioning of them to figure out if it's Town that is just wrong, or scum pushing a townie.


And you think you would have been so much better as counterwagon than Kittie? You, who wasn't even widely scumread besides maybe by Black? Like, did you get the vibe from my post that I was trying to convince Black to move away from Klick? Why should I act all passive as partner when I see the focus shifting to Klick? I don't see what you would see here.

The only people who were even considering Kittie was me/Gamma from what I remember, so it's not like Kittie had much wagon potential either. My wagon already grew once, with a lot of people still questioning my slot significantly, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that I could have been wagoned again.


The argument is a bit funny to me, when I look how you just started immediately questioning Klick when Black started mentioning and voting Klick. With a question that Klick already had answered before, to you even. If you were just following Black then why did you wait in doing so until Hu Tao has joined as well?

I actually don't know what to say here other than I decided to follow Black when I voted. I wasn't following Black the whole day, I just decided to follow her on that particular wagon.


For that matter, why not also joining the Naerys wagon back then (who was actually pushing for a Black lim) when it had three votes and you weren't voting anywhere else and were already town on Black anyway? You went for Kittie later and I have no issues about that one. Going by you didn't seemed really town on Naerys though.

I didn't have a strong read on Naerys, and at that point in time I was beginning to suspect Kittie because of Gamma's wall. When I voted Enchant, I wasn't sure about anything else at that point in time, which is why i voted.


Not really sure how to format this, so I've just put my answers in bold.
In post 494, Elements wrote:
In post 493, Testarossa wrote: Elements, can you explain your progression from Kittie as town down to your scumreads? Also why do you think that Thom is scum?
Kittie's position is more poe where Thom I think is scum
the tr of kittie was partly based on her being a newer player giving the benefit of the doubt to some of the "i'll read up in a bit" and "i'm not really sure about anything" vibe posts but then i remembered something either someone said or a game daisy was in where a newb!scum did exactly that just to be under the radar so that faded the bod. Wasn't a fan of the readlist especially the reasoning for the read on you. Generally not done anything that's pinged me as towny since that post i vibed with

Thomith I feel I may be tunneling on because of which I can just see as replacement scum coming in and voting a buddy. I don't think I'll be able to see it a different way unless Thomith flips town.
Skimming Thom's iso I've only just properly clocked that their first vote was on ORAM which has given me pause
That being said and really rub me the wrong way
A lot of the read is based on partner equity
Why do 411 and 417 rub you the wrong way?

I also don't see why you aren't entertaining the alternative that ORAM/Klick were defending me because I'm Town, so they would look good after my flip? Both of those posts that you think is them buddying with me came when I still had heat on me Day 1.

In post 498, Hu Tao wrote: I like elements, just like I like arko so I don't see myself voting there today
I find myself agreeing.
I liked Arko's case on Black, in that the effort did seem town motivated, the same way that Elements' reread posts seem like they are trying to solve for the most part.

My POE at the moment I think is Hu Tao/Gamma - I feel good about them and still think those slots are Town.
I feel pretty good about Elements, but Gamma does make a good point in 502 which makes me not want to fully commit to eliminating them as a suspect. I feel a similar way about Kittiesecret, I feel pretty good but not quite enough to eliminate her yet.

I don't think I'm willing to vote Elements right now. At most I might compromise on Naerys I think.
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Post Post #506 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:35 pm

Post by Elements »

In post 505, Thomith wrote: I also don't see why you aren't entertaining the alternative that ORAM/Klick were defending me because I'm Town, so they would look good after my flip? Both of those posts that you think is them buddying with me came when I still had heat on me Day 1.
I was not aware of this context
I'll have another look when I've got time
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Post Post #507 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:40 pm

Post by Elements »

In post 506, Elements wrote:
In post 505, Thomith wrote: I also don't see why you aren't entertaining the alternative that ORAM/Klick were defending me because I'm Town, so they would look good after my flip? Both of those posts that you think is them buddying with me came when I still had heat on me Day 1.
I was not aware of this context
I'll have another look when I've got time
This might change my view on Klick's post depending on how many were on your wagon at the time

I jumped straight to towning a partner rather than reading a town is because in isolation those two posts just seem like passing comments for the sake of making them, rather than defending the person a wagon is on

This is why context is important
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Post Post #508 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:43 pm

Post by Elements »

I also agree with 502 which is mildly amusing
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Post Post #509 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:51 pm

Post by Elements »


My POE at the moment I think is Hu Tao/Gamma - I feel good about them and still think those slots are Town.
I feel pretty good about Elements, but Gamma does make a good point in 502 which makes me not want to fully commit to eliminating them as a suspect. I feel a similar way about Kittiesecret, I feel pretty good but not quite enough to eliminate her yet.
I don't understand most of this? You're saying you think your poe is town? Then why are they your poe?
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Post Post #510 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:51 pm

Post by Thomith »

In post 507, Elements wrote:
In post 506, Elements wrote:
In post 505, Thomith wrote: I also don't see why you aren't entertaining the alternative that ORAM/Klick were defending me because I'm Town, so they would look good after my flip? Both of those posts that you think is them buddying with me came when I still had heat on me Day 1.
I was not aware of this context
I'll have another look when I've got time
This might change my view on Klick's post depending on how many were on your wagon at the time

I jumped straight to towning a partner rather than reading a town is because in isolation those two posts just seem like passing comments for the sake of making them, rather than defending the person a wagon is on

This is why context is important
For full clarity, at the time of the Klick post I believe that people were beginning to leaving my wagon, but still stating suspicion on me but wanting to move onto other reads at that point in time if I remember correctly.

The ORAM post was when people had begun wagoning me though.
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Post Post #511 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:52 pm

Post by Thomith »

In post 509, Elements wrote:

My POE at the moment I think is Hu Tao/Gamma - I feel good about them and still think those slots are Town.
I feel pretty good about Elements, but Gamma does make a good point in 502 which makes me not want to fully commit to eliminating them as a suspect. I feel a similar way about Kittiesecret, I feel pretty good but not quite enough to eliminate her yet.
I don't understand most of this? You're saying you think your poe is town? Then why are they your poe?
I'm new to this terminology :P, wasn't a thing when I last played.
I'm eliminating them from my POE I guess is what I should have said?
Basically I want to eliminate them from the list of people I think could be Mafia.
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Post Post #512 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2023 12:02 am

Post by Elements »

In post 511, Thomith wrote:
In post 509, Elements wrote:

My POE at the moment I think is Hu Tao/Gamma - I feel good about them and still think those slots are Town.
I feel pretty good about Elements, but Gamma does make a good point in 502 which makes me not want to fully commit to eliminating them as a suspect. I feel a similar way about Kittiesecret, I feel pretty good but not quite enough to eliminate her yet.
I don't understand most of this? You're saying you think your poe is town? Then why are they your poe?
I'm new to this terminology :P, wasn't a thing when I last played.
I'm eliminating them from my POE I guess is what I should have said?
Basically I want to eliminate them from the list of people I think could be Mafia.
That makes more sense
I'm used to poe meaning 'I townread everyone else so the red team must be in here'
So the opposite
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Post Post #513 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2023 7:19 am

Post by Elements »

Slow game huh
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Post Post #514 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2023 7:28 am

Post by Naerys »

We have some time left, so its okay. But we should try to solidify our suspicions.
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Post Post #515 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2023 7:40 am

Post by Kittiesecret »

In post 481, Testarossa wrote: In post 475, Kittiesecret wrote:
Testarossa, i feel is genuine in their quest to solve. she is interacting and asking questions. responding and putting forth good theories.
What changed between D1 and D2 though? In 204 you had me as scum and tbh I don't think my play hasn't changed much since then.
At first with the early black wagon I saw some of your actions on the side of scum, but there has been progression to your play as the game has moved on. you are interrupting information from the questions your asking and reading the situations in the game which are evolving your reads. Very much appears to be a genuine effort to solve.

While on the other hand I feel like Thom is "doing" the same things but his feel more like for show, there is less substance to his posts. As he tends to focus on people who have had even a sideways glance at him. with out evolution.


I feel a lot better about the Arko/Elements slot. Elements has really put in some good work in the short time thet have been in the game and I appreaciate it.
In post 489, Elements wrote: Post Post #489 (ISO) » Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:00 am

Spoiler: ORAM

Spoiler: Klick

Spoiler: Enchant
This case on Thom articulates what I was struggling to say myself.

VOTE: Thomith
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Post Post #516 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2023 9:37 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 505, Thomith wrote:
Spoiler: Testarossa Post 480
In post 480, Testarossa wrote:
In post 471, Thomith wrote: Can you explain what you mean about my "self-conscious lines" because I genuinely dont know what you mean when you're saying that.

Just because you arent voting someone doesnt mean you're not suggesting them as an option.
My wagon had grown once before, so it's not out of the realm of possibilities that it could have happened again, while Kittie's wagon stagnated after only a few votes.

In all honesty I was following Black with the Enchant vote. I didn't like the push on her so thought there was a big enough chance of her being Town to see where the wagon went, and if enchant flipped town I feel it would have still given us a decent amount of information on black/others on the wagon. Admittedly I didnt expect the hammer to happen so quickly.
I think we talked about it before. I am on the fence about it for the whole game as it could just be a playstyle thing. Everytime someone scumreads you or feels uncertain about you, you are immediately summoned and jump straight out of the box to question the person. I can see why you would act like that as town to form better reads, but it also just looks like scum that is concerned to stay safe and tries to shoot down any possible suspicions.

I am questioning peoples reads on anyone, to try and figure out motivations for those reads. From my POV, anyone who is saying their are suspicious of me are wrong, because they are Town, so I'm trying to use my questioning of them to figure out if it's Town that is just wrong, or scum pushing a townie.


And you think you would have been so much better as counterwagon than Kittie? You, who wasn't even widely scumread besides maybe by Black? Like, did you get the vibe from my post that I was trying to convince Black to move away from Klick? Why should I act all passive as partner when I see the focus shifting to Klick? I don't see what you would see here.

The only people who were even considering Kittie was me/Gamma from what I remember, so it's not like Kittie had much wagon potential either. My wagon already grew once, with a lot of people still questioning my slot significantly, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that I could have been wagoned again.


The argument is a bit funny to me, when I look how you just started immediately questioning Klick when Black started mentioning and voting Klick. With a question that Klick already had answered before, to you even. If you were just following Black then why did you wait in doing so until Hu Tao has joined as well?

I actually don't know what to say here other than I decided to follow Black when I voted. I wasn't following Black the whole day, I just decided to follow her on that particular wagon.


For that matter, why not also joining the Naerys wagon back then (who was actually pushing for a Black lim) when it had three votes and you weren't voting anywhere else and were already town on Black anyway? You went for Kittie later and I have no issues about that one. Going by you didn't seemed really town on Naerys though.

I didn't have a strong read on Naerys, and at that point in time I was beginning to suspect Kittie because of Gamma's wall. When I voted Enchant, I wasn't sure about anything else at that point in time, which is why i voted.


Not really sure how to format this, so I've just put my answers in bold.
In post 494, Elements wrote:
In post 493, Testarossa wrote: Elements, can you explain your progression from Kittie as town down to your scumreads? Also why do you think that Thom is scum?
Kittie's position is more poe where Thom I think is scum
the tr of kittie was partly based on her being a newer player giving the benefit of the doubt to some of the "i'll read up in a bit" and "i'm not really sure about anything" vibe posts but then i remembered something either someone said or a game daisy was in where a newb!scum did exactly that just to be under the radar so that faded the bod. Wasn't a fan of the readlist especially the reasoning for the read on you. Generally not done anything that's pinged me as towny since that post i vibed with

Thomith I feel I may be tunneling on because of which I can just see as replacement scum coming in and voting a buddy. I don't think I'll be able to see it a different way unless Thomith flips town.
Skimming Thom's iso I've only just properly clocked that their first vote was on ORAM which has given me pause
That being said and really rub me the wrong way
A lot of the read is based on partner equity
Why do 411 and 417 rub you the wrong way?

I also don't see why you aren't entertaining the alternative that ORAM/Klick were defending me because I'm Town, so they would look good after my flip? Both of those posts that you think is them buddying with me came when I still had heat on me Day 1.

In post 498, Hu Tao wrote: I like elements, just like I like arko so I don't see myself voting there today
I find myself agreeing.
I liked Arko's case on Black, in that the effort did seem town motivated, the same way that Elements' reread posts seem like they are trying to solve for the most part.

My POE at the moment I think is Hu Tao/Gamma - I feel good about them and still think those slots are Town.
I feel pretty good about Elements, but Gamma does make a good point in 502 which makes me not want to fully commit to eliminating them as a suspect. I feel a similar way about Kittiesecret, I feel pretty good but not quite enough to eliminate her yet.

I don't think I'm willing to vote Elements right now. At most I might compromise on Naerys I think.
VOTE: Thomith
Your PoE is atrocious. Are you seriously assuming scum bussed in a micro?
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Post Post #517 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2023 9:40 am

Post by Naerys »

In post 516, Gamma Emerald wrote: Your PoE is atrocious. Are you seriously assuming scum bussed in a micro?
you dont seem to believe it but you vote Thomith
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Post Post #518 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2023 9:41 am

Post by Elements »

Gamma have you read the poe confusion?
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Post Post #519 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2023 9:47 am

Post by Thomith »

In post 516, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 505, Thomith wrote:
Spoiler: Testarossa Post 480
In post 480, Testarossa wrote:
In post 471, Thomith wrote: Can you explain what you mean about my "self-conscious lines" because I genuinely dont know what you mean when you're saying that.

Just because you arent voting someone doesnt mean you're not suggesting them as an option.
My wagon had grown once before, so it's not out of the realm of possibilities that it could have happened again, while Kittie's wagon stagnated after only a few votes.

In all honesty I was following Black with the Enchant vote. I didn't like the push on her so thought there was a big enough chance of her being Town to see where the wagon went, and if enchant flipped town I feel it would have still given us a decent amount of information on black/others on the wagon. Admittedly I didnt expect the hammer to happen so quickly.
I think we talked about it before. I am on the fence about it for the whole game as it could just be a playstyle thing. Everytime someone scumreads you or feels uncertain about you, you are immediately summoned and jump straight out of the box to question the person. I can see why you would act like that as town to form better reads, but it also just looks like scum that is concerned to stay safe and tries to shoot down any possible suspicions.

I am questioning peoples reads on anyone, to try and figure out motivations for those reads. From my POV, anyone who is saying their are suspicious of me are wrong, because they are Town, so I'm trying to use my questioning of them to figure out if it's Town that is just wrong, or scum pushing a townie.


And you think you would have been so much better as counterwagon than Kittie? You, who wasn't even widely scumread besides maybe by Black? Like, did you get the vibe from my post that I was trying to convince Black to move away from Klick? Why should I act all passive as partner when I see the focus shifting to Klick? I don't see what you would see here.

The only people who were even considering Kittie was me/Gamma from what I remember, so it's not like Kittie had much wagon potential either. My wagon already grew once, with a lot of people still questioning my slot significantly, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that I could have been wagoned again.


The argument is a bit funny to me, when I look how you just started immediately questioning Klick when Black started mentioning and voting Klick. With a question that Klick already had answered before, to you even. If you were just following Black then why did you wait in doing so until Hu Tao has joined as well?

I actually don't know what to say here other than I decided to follow Black when I voted. I wasn't following Black the whole day, I just decided to follow her on that particular wagon.


For that matter, why not also joining the Naerys wagon back then (who was actually pushing for a Black lim) when it had three votes and you weren't voting anywhere else and were already town on Black anyway? You went for Kittie later and I have no issues about that one. Going by you didn't seemed really town on Naerys though.

I didn't have a strong read on Naerys, and at that point in time I was beginning to suspect Kittie because of Gamma's wall. When I voted Enchant, I wasn't sure about anything else at that point in time, which is why i voted.


Not really sure how to format this, so I've just put my answers in bold.
In post 494, Elements wrote:
In post 493, Testarossa wrote: Elements, can you explain your progression from Kittie as town down to your scumreads? Also why do you think that Thom is scum?
Kittie's position is more poe where Thom I think is scum
the tr of kittie was partly based on her being a newer player giving the benefit of the doubt to some of the "i'll read up in a bit" and "i'm not really sure about anything" vibe posts but then i remembered something either someone said or a game daisy was in where a newb!scum did exactly that just to be under the radar so that faded the bod. Wasn't a fan of the readlist especially the reasoning for the read on you. Generally not done anything that's pinged me as towny since that post i vibed with

Thomith I feel I may be tunneling on because of which I can just see as replacement scum coming in and voting a buddy. I don't think I'll be able to see it a different way unless Thomith flips town.
Skimming Thom's iso I've only just properly clocked that their first vote was on ORAM which has given me pause
That being said and really rub me the wrong way
A lot of the read is based on partner equity
Why do 411 and 417 rub you the wrong way?

I also don't see why you aren't entertaining the alternative that ORAM/Klick were defending me because I'm Town, so they would look good after my flip? Both of those posts that you think is them buddying with me came when I still had heat on me Day 1.

In post 498, Hu Tao wrote: I like elements, just like I like arko so I don't see myself voting there today
I find myself agreeing.
I liked Arko's case on Black, in that the effort did seem town motivated, the same way that Elements' reread posts seem like they are trying to solve for the most part.

My POE at the moment I think is Hu Tao/Gamma - I feel good about them and still think those slots are Town.
I feel pretty good about Elements, but Gamma does make a good point in 502 which makes me not want to fully commit to eliminating them as a suspect. I feel a similar way about Kittiesecret, I feel pretty good but not quite enough to eliminate her yet.

I don't think I'm willing to vote Elements right now. At most I might compromise on Naerys I think.
VOTE: Thomith
Your PoE is atrocious. Are you seriously assuming scum bussed in a micro?
I used PoE incorrectly as Elements pointed out later, we figured out more accurately my PoE was Testarossa/Naerys, while I'm still not fully decided on Kittie/Elements.
thomith could be a court jester
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Post Post #520 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2023 9:53 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 518, Elements wrote: Gamma have you read the poe confusion?
Yeah I think I realized it on my ownUNVOTE:
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Post Post #521 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2023 10:49 am

Post by Hu Tao »

Can someone explain to me why naerys is town here?
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Post Post #522 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2023 11:14 am

Post by Naerys »

In post 521, Hu Tao wrote: Can someone explain to me why naerys is town here?
Bcz i rolled as 1 shot bulletproof town?
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Post Post #523 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2023 12:19 pm

Post by Testarossa »

By play there isn't much speaking into Naerys favor. However I feel like that Klick's out of nowhere townread in and doubling down on a strong townread on Naerys, which was kind of against the stream in the thread where most had her as null or scum, look way more like intended misleading by him, which implies that Naerys is more likely town imo.

Not too sure if her claim is legit, but if true it's in scum's interest to get her limmed. We can sort that later mechanically if necessary. This is a micro and not a mini. If there is only one further pr she is legit. If there should be too much claimed power we can review.
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Post Post #524 (ISO) » Sun Dec 03, 2023 12:28 pm

Post by Testarossa »

My poe hasn't really changed. Still at Elements/Thom. Everyone else looks mostly alright or I have no interest in limming them.

Elements looks fine to me, I was townreading Arko mostly anyway and the only thing that bothers me there are the reads on ORAM/Klick by Arko. However Arko has been similar with some of his other reads (Kittie, me, Gamma I think). I think I would rather go with Thom here.

VOTE: Thomith That's E-1
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