Open 102- Lover Mafia (Game Over) before 712

[SensFan]

Performing a meta on SP. I expect I'll be back after checking the first game I see in his post history expaining how scummy this line of his is.

[SensFan]

Hey look, I was right. Most recent completed game that SP did not replace into, Mini 483. Hey look, he random-voted in his first post.

SP, I have a question for you: If you can randomly vote someone for having an unpronouncable username, why can you not vote someone for something you consider scummy?

[ZazieR]

SensFan, you are allowed to respond to post 48

[SensFan]

You are Scum looking for a quick lynch. You don't want to hammer me. Your buddy doesn't even have the balls to put a first vote on me, so you are trying to get me to hammer myself. Failing that, you wanted me replaced.

1. My vote was the second. ZazieR voted for you first. Technical, but precise enough to show you are twisting the blatant facts.
2. Repeating the fact that I am scum refusing to hammer my buddy isn't going to make it truer. If I hadn't posted and say ZazieR did a random vote, you would have done the same to her. The fact was that you are supporting a true, yet weak argument to suggest I'm scum. As I said before, scum make weak arguments because they can't make any other ones.
3. How can she be looking for a quicklynch AND not be voting for anyone? And why is it okay for you to push a lynch on page 1 and not sekinj on page 2? You can't say I am scummy for

not

voting for a superquicklynch and say that sekinj is scummy for wanting a quicklynch. Can't have it both ways.

1. Wow, I make a absolutely minor, irrelevant, inconsequential mistake and I am 'twisting the blatant facts'?
2. Of course I would have. Random lynches favour the Town...
3. Because she doesn't want to be seen on the wagon. There is a difference in the wagons. Sek's was random, mine is Scum-driven.

[SilverPhoenix]

SP, I have a question for you: If you can randomly vote someone for having an unpronouncable username, why can you not vote someone for something you consider scummy?

How are those two related? They aren't, really.
In one of my current games (I'm dead in it), there was another guy exactly like you (iLord) who had a problem with me not putting my vote where my mouth was. I really don't see why when and who I vote for when I make arguments is your business. Just because I find one thing about a player scummy, it doesn't mean that I think he is scum, cut and dry. The tunnelvision that both you and iLord have simply looks ridiculous when you step back from it.

1. Wow, I make a absolutely minor, irrelevant, inconsequential mistake and I am 'twisting the blatant facts'?

You used it your "irrelevant" fact as fuel to the fire: that I "didn't have the balls to put a first vote on you". I just needed strong language of my own to set the facts straight.

2. Of course I would have. Random lynches favour the Town...

I do not agree. Although it is more likely to hit scum and win in this setup, it doesn't help the town because I'll be damned if I can't use logic to figure out who are scum. I also think that you are trying to come up with a explanation after the fact as to why you even pushed for a random lynch in the first place. Why didn't you say this before?

3. Because she doesn't want to be seen on the wagon. There is a difference in the wagons. Sek's was random, mine is Scum-driven.

Just reinforcing your tunnelvision I see. Still doesn't mean it has any correctness at all.

What I don't get is that you say a random lynch is better for the town, yet you still want to lynch sekinj for being scummy. The fact is that the lynch that you say is "random" clearly isn't anymore (as both you and charter have offered non-random reasons for your votes), and attempting to pass it off as such will clearly give you an alibi D2. I'm not buying your "random" wagon mess any more, as the time is clearly up for random. The fact that a random lynch would help the town is irrelevant, as the game has moved on.

[SensFan]

SP, I have a question for you: If you can randomly vote someone for having an unpronouncable username, why can you not vote someone for something you consider scummy?

How are those two related? They aren't, really.
In one of my current games (I'm dead in it), there was another guy exactly like you (iLord) who had a problem with me not putting my vote where my mouth was. I really don't see why when and who I vote for when I make arguments is your business. Just because I find one thing about a player scummy, it doesn't mean that I think he is scum, cut and dry. The tunnelvision that both you and iLord have simply looks ridiculous when you step back from it.

Can I get some of the crack you are on which has you seeing things this way? Seriously, if you are willing to vote for someone having a funny name, you should ALWAYS 100% be willing to vote (in the "random") stage for someone doing ANYTHING EVEN MINUTELY SCUMMY.

Will respond to the rest tonight. For now, the fact that I said first when I should have said second doesn't defuse my argument in the slightest.

[sekinj]

I said

IF

Sensfan wanted to be quicklynched just to get out of the game

THEN

he should ask for replacement INSTEAD.

That is an IF/Then statement. If the first part is not true, then the second part does not apply. The opposite would be:

IF

Sensfan has some other agenda or reason for wanting to be quicklynched

THEN

he should NOT ask for replacement.

I was NOT demanding a replacement for him.

I was telling him that IF that was his reasoning, then there was a better way to handle it. that's all. Since he has explained himself, I certainly would like him to continue the game.

Look back at my original statements for verification. Stop trying to make it something it is not.

[SensFan]

The fact is that the lynch that you say is "random" clearly isn't anymore

Right. There's 2 people in this game who should oppose a random lynch forming on the "wrong" person. Town has no reason not to end the Day in 5 posts.

[charter]

So should we lynch sekinj or SP (on the chance that it matters)?

[SensFan]

I'm thinking SP. sek could in theory be Town that didn't want to be lynched. SP has no excuse for not wanting sek lynched.

Unvote, Vote: SP

[charter]

Meh, doubt it will make any difference.

unvote, vote SP

[ZazieR]

Meh, doubt it will make any difference.

If you think it won't make a difference, then why do you change?

Unvote Vote Charter

Besides, you're following a lot.

[SilverPhoenix]

Can I get some of the crack you are on which has you seeing things this way? Seriously, if you are willing to vote for someone having a funny name, you should ALWAYS 100% be willing to vote (in the "random") stage for someone doing ANYTHING EVEN MINUTELY SCUMMY.

Yes, in the random voting stage, I am willing to

VOTE

for any random reason. However, I am

NOT GOING TO LYNCH

for any random reason. There is a huge difference between the two, and like I said, I'll be damned if I

EVER

do that.
There are levels of scumminess. The higher ones deserve votes, the lower ones don't IMO. LIKE I ALREADY SAID, it shouldn't make one bit of difference where my vote is to you. You don't control my vote, I do. Stop trying to enforce your black-and-white view of scumminess on me and saying I'm scummy for not sharing it.

[SensFan]

Can I get some of the crack you are on which has you seeing things this way? Seriously, if you are willing to vote for someone having a funny name, you should ALWAYS 100% be willing to vote (in the "random") stage for someone doing ANYTHING EVEN MINUTELY SCUMMY.

Yes, in the random voting stage, I am willing to

VOTE

for any random reason. However, I am

NOT GOING TO LYNCH

for any random reason. There is a huge difference between the two, and like I said, I'll be damned if I

EVER

do that.
There are levels of scumminess. The higher ones deserve votes, the lower ones don't IMO. LIKE I ALREADY SAID, it shouldn't make one bit of difference where my vote is to you. You don't control my vote, I do. Stop trying to enforce your black-and-white view of scumminess on me and saying I'm scummy for not sharing it.

Explain how putting a first (oh, I mean second. Damn, that ruins the whole argument right there...) vote on someone means lynching them.

[SilverPhoenix]

Can I get some of the crack you are on which has you seeing things this way? Seriously, if you are willing to vote for someone having a funny name, you should ALWAYS 100% be willing to vote (in the "random") stage for someone doing ANYTHING EVEN MINUTELY SCUMMY.

Yes, in the random voting stage, I am willing to

VOTE

for any random reason. However, I am

NOT GOING TO LYNCH

for any random reason. There is a huge difference between the two, and like I said, I'll be damned if I

EVER

do that.
There are levels of scumminess. The higher ones deserve votes, the lower ones don't IMO. LIKE I ALREADY SAID, it shouldn't make one bit of difference where my vote is to you. You don't control my vote, I do. Stop trying to enforce your black-and-white view of scumminess on me and saying I'm scummy for not sharing it.

Explain how putting a first (oh, I mean second. Damn, that ruins the whole argument right there...) vote on someone means lynching them.

I was talking about me not lynching sekinj, which is still the root of your argument.

[SensFan]

The meta, though, was based on your claim it was not unusual for you to not even vote me.

[roflcopter]

hey guys. shitty access recently, sorry for being a nonentity.

pretty happy with my sek vote for the moment, based on a very cursory read. not gonna be able to get online over the weekend, but i'll give this thread a better look when i get back.

[charter]

Meh, doubt it will make any difference.

If you think it won't make a difference, then why do you change?

Unvote Vote Charter

Besides, you're following a lot.

Hmmm, you're making me question my reads of sekinj, and SP. I'm following a lot? Where have I followed and how does that constitute "a lot", and how is it scummy?

If I don't think it will make a difference, that's the reason I changed! It doesn't matter.

Since you give no (legit) reasons for your vote, why pick me over someone else?

[neko2086]

Just so y'all know, I have little access until Monday. I'll get caught up w/ vote count and any requests then.

[sekinj]

pretty happy with my sek vote for the moment, based on a very cursory read. not gonna be able to get online over the weekend, but i'll give this thread a better look when i get back.

pray tell... why?

[SilverPhoenix]

I commit something you consider rather scummy, and you think its normal not to vote me?

I noticed this during an overview, and it is in reference to this.

I'm fine with a vote, and won't back down at all. I think it is a very realistic possibility that SP is either buddies with Sekinj (in which case hammering is an insta-loss) or else that he's Scum with someone else and knows hammering likely leads to him being lynched tomorrow, losing.
...
Hey look, even more reluctance to vote! Put your vote where your mouth is.

Now, you say that I call you "rather scummy", where that is not the case.

Jesus, what a false dichotomy. I'm not lynching someone on the first page no matter who it is. Weak arguments = weak reason to make arguments. FOS: SensFan

Call me being technical, but an FOS is a really wimpy way to say someone is scummy (which you point out in your comment above). The fact that you use "

rather

scummy" instead of "scummy" makes me think that you actually recognize that there are levels of scumminess like I do. Additionally, the only thing at that point that I said about your attack on me for not lynching sekinj was that it was a weak argument to make, yet you consider that argument as "rather scummy". Calling an argument weak and calling an argument scummy is two different things that are related, but not directly correlated. Your evaluation on my position against you is mistaken, as I find your case against me weak, not scummy (directly).

[SensFan]

You fucking FoS'ed me. Finger of SUSPICION.

[ZazieR]

If you get another vote, I'm gonna hammer you so fast it's not even funny.

Actually, no sense in making it a sens hammer. I view sekinj as much more likely scum than sens, and my math holds true to everyone regardless of who's lynched. Might as well make it a scummy person.

unvote, vote sekinj

Meh, doubt it will make any difference.
unvote, vote SP

See the examples of which I believe you have followed or gave the impression that you would follow.
It's scummy, because it doesn't matter to scum who gets lynched as long as a townie gets lynched. A townie would like to lynch the one who is scummiest to him, but as shown in one of the quotes that doesn't matter to you.
And I've picked you as you haven't given any reason why you want SP lynched and you gave no reason why you see Sekinj scummier than SensFan.

[charter]

I don't really see how the first two are me following anybody. Who was I following in the first quote? Who was I following in the second quote? I'll give you I followed Sens in the third, but I already explained why.

As for why I think sekinj and SP are scum, could have asked me, I'd have told you.
Few reasons for both. sekinj was just joking around well after everyone else was serious, effectively gauging where everyone stands before giving her own opinion ((I suppose you could put roflcopter here too, but he hasn't said anything, so I have nothing to go on). Also for her reaction to sens agreeing with me that sekinj should hammer him. I think it's more likely for her to react that way as scum, than town, for mainly the reasons sens already pointed out.

SP I think is scum for his defending sekinj in 48-49, I'd actually be amazed if they aren't the scumteam. Tell me why would he defend sekinj, who has said virtually nothing serious and done zero scumhunting this whole game?

And for why I don't care which of sekinj or SP I vote, I think they're the scumteam. Obviously possible they aren't, but I've seen a strong link between them, so I'm fine acting on that day one.

[SilverPhoenix]

SP I think is scum for his defending sekinj in 48-49, I'd actually be amazed if they aren't the scumteam. Tell me why would he defend sekinj, who has said virtually nothing serious and done zero scumhunting this whole game?

Criticizing one's attack of a different player doesn't mean I was defending that player (this is in reference to 48-49).

You fucking FoS'ed me. Finger of SUSPICION.

I once again quote you.

Hey look, even more reluctance to vote! Put your vote where your mouth is.

You think FOS's are weak by that quote (right?), yet you say I am creating grand accusations against your position with that FOS. If that isn't what you meant, then just say so, don't get so emotional. Tilt isn't a-ok.