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In post 45, Alchemist21 wrote:I could see it for the first bit of 23, but definitely not the others you cited.
Definitely not? How are you so sure? After all, Mara offers a good explanation in #30 as to why #28 doesn't really make much sense. Do you disagree?
30 is a good rebuttal of 28. I like the post, but I have also seen hesitations about RVS come from scum. Maybe not for the reason ETL said, but I've seen it.
Even of the idea has a good argument against it, but I still don't see how it was a knee-jerk reaction to anything.
In post 48, Ms Marangal wrote:Do you think her being kneejerky is indicative of etlscum?
If so, why
I think it can be indicative of scum rushing out posts. Knee jerk wasn't the best word to use, I meant something more like responding to posts quickly and perhaps without a lot of thought.
Like maybe not putting a lot of thought into the proper word to use?
In post 61, Quilford wrote:ETL: Actually I think Alchemist was being a bit backhanded there to me. My response is that I did put a lot of thought into the right word to use but on balance realise I should have used multiple words instead.
I just couldn't resist the temptation tl be a smartass there. Lol
In post 71, BipolarChemist wrote:While I fully agree on disliking BB's post, I don't think it's alignment indicative.
Do you think anything is alignment-indicative so far, BPC?
Not overly alignment indicative, no! There are a couple things that ping out like ETL's posting, but that's
something most seem to be picking up on.
Mara's posting doesn't feel like mara to me. I've only played with her a very little bit, but like it feels either heavily influenced by her team or mara really stepping up her game. My first indication is to townread her posts, but I don't wanna jump to that considering possible influences!
Quilford is cuting it up, but that seems like general Quilford to me, pulling a townread early on from that seems dangerous! Looking beyond that, he's had some good posting, but nothing jumping out at me too hard.
Where are you getting "most" from? I've seen you and Quilford say it, but that's it.
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Post #94 (isolation #11) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:54 am
Postby Alchemist21 »
In post 89, Quilford wrote:Alchemist why are you asking so many questions? Do you have any opinions? I wanna hear them
I like engaging you. It's fun. I don't really have any opinions yet; so far this feels like it will be a more emotion-based game and I'm not an emotion-based player.
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Post #137 (isolation #14) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:18 am
Postby Alchemist21 »
I asked people in MD how to get more engaged in games, and they all told me to just talk. That's how I used to operate too but I stopped because stuff like this kept happening.
In post 1, Alchemist21 wrote:My favorite alignment is scum, because then you have permission to screw with people. I think I'd like being a Serial Killer better, but so far I haven't had the pleasure (closest I've been was solo'ing a game as the last scum offsite, and I had an unusual game mechanic provide a huge help).
Honesty would have served you better.
Quilford: Because it feels like this player list is really easily PoE-able. You, ETL, and probably serra are town. Now I think Patrick looks town (although he's the one person who I think could really fuck us over if he's scum). Mara looks kind of genuine, except she's sort of in the same general fuzzy bunny scumbag as, e.g., Malakittens in Wicked who posts a lot of nice posts about safer topics, so sure, she can be in my extended lynch pool. But that leaves Alchemist, BPC, and BBmolla. BBmolla is really readable, so we'll know one way or another soon.
And that's without any super-powered innocent children claiming. And without roles that ensure if scum is lynched D1, the game is broken.
I prefer BPC's later posts to his earlier ones, and admittedly, he's someone I can see being middle-of-the-road and overly nice as either alignment. But his earlier posts come across as pretty much the textbook safe, agreeable, "I'm going to say both good and bad things about everyone to keep myself open to lynch them" scumbag. His stances feel middle-of-the-road in a calculated (not sure if that's the best word choice) rather than an indecisive way. Regfan and Empire are annoying and think BPC is town, though. Boo.
I was honest. I prefer being scum because it's usually more enjoyable, but I'm a stronger player as Town, and from a tactical standpoint making me Town is the better move.
I also don't get how people are scumreading me while Townreading BPC. We're doing the same things, just BPC has more words.
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Post #153 (isolation #19) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:18 pm
Postby Alchemist21 »
@Mina, He's null to me. There are people who take a little while longer to get reads in a game, and he hasn't done anything I would consider alignment indicative.
ETL hit town rediculously early and serras response to me was highly favorable and it's difficult seeing that actually coming from a town perspective.
I thought your team thinking I picked scum tokens were weird, though empires analysis of my play and behavior was somewhat accurate and I feel like it was a solid move from you guys and, from what I understand of his play, it's very unlikely that he is scum thus, it is very unlikely that you are scum.
Patrick, I think looked townie enough but could be scum if my top three is completely off, and it seems like it might be.
I don't know anything of quils meta so all I have to go off of is what's going on in thread. His pushes were kinda awkward and still kinda is and though his posts seen reasonable enough, I kinda feel like they lack originality and the one push that was kind of original can also kinda explain how he's played so far (read, etl being knew jerky)
In that first paragraph, are you saying you're Townreading ETL and scumreading Serra?
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Post #178 (isolation #28) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:22 pm
Postby Alchemist21 »
In post 177, Ms Marangal wrote:And he should tell at me if I start scum reading him down the road
Pedit: yeah? I didn't explicity mention any of my reads, I did hint towards possible scum read on you earlier after pats first post
Ppedit:should have read difficult from seeing it from scum perspective
You did show more thought process as your read developed, and you aren't claiming to have scumread me before it was brought up. I think Quilford may have just wanted to see more sentiment against me before trying to push me. Some of Quilford's have been pretty directed at Mina in a buddying kind of way too.
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Post #190 (isolation #29) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:11 am
Postby Alchemist21 »
In post 184, BBmolla wrote:If I'm right about alch scum serra is partner
game solved
How did you come to that conclusion?
In post 185, BBmolla wrote:jesus fuck you guys are gonna think I copied you
I saw the same shit Patrick did
Copying is exactly what I think you did. Give us some original thought if you can.
In post 186, BBmolla wrote:Pretty confident I'm not changing my vote ever
Sounds like scum setting up to vote park.
In post 187, BBmolla wrote:If anyone has Alch meta it couldn't hurt though
Everyone else on Mara's team could have that. Mastin and Notscience have both modded me and played with me (but I'm not sure how much Mastin wuld remember of my play). Pieguy has been scum and Town with me.
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Post #194 (isolation #31) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:20 am
Postby Alchemist21 »
Btw, Shos is on your team, he may have some meta on me too. It might be interesting to see how that will compare to Mara's teammates' meta-based opinions.
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Post #198 (isolation #33) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:51 am
Postby Alchemist21 »
In post 197, Mina wrote:Alchemist, why do we care about all the people who have meta with you again?
Molla asked if anyone had meta on me.
Btw, BBT said he feels the same way about Quilford, and thinks if Quilford is scum then you're Town. He wasn't a fan of Molla's first post and said he would vote Quilford or Molla in this game. I don't think he saw Molla's latest bit. He also said ETL and Mara looked Town.
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Post #200 (isolation #34) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:05 am
Postby Alchemist21 »
^Says the guy who was the first of 2 to sheep onto my wagon. This is the fourth time you've said you had a reads list and refused to post it. You haven't done any scumhunting, and for you to vote someone else for that is just hypocritical bullshit.
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Post #202 (isolation #35) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:22 am
Postby Alchemist21 »
I don't need your reads list to see you're not scumhunting. You attacked me for not clearly showing my thought process when you haven't shown us anything on your end. You saw people start to scumread me and decided to hop on that wagon. You've been opportunistic, and you expect us to have some blind faith that you're Town?
In post 193, Alchemist21 wrote:Because Quilford sounded similar, and I was giving you a chance to respond.
P-edit: Holy shit, are you serious? THAT'S part of your read on me?
I like how you're interaction with me assumes my reads are real and not fabricated so you are assuming in town
Tell me more about how you think I'm scum
Where did I ever assume any of that? You came in and made a weak push on me. The ONLY reason I would have to think you're Town is what you said about my RVS comment. It's so bad I actually wondered if it was you pulling a slayer's gambit; I've seen it floating around in some of the other games.
He doesn't have much of one. Should I just summarize the entire Skype message he left me?
UNVOTE: BBmolla
Don't want to vote Alchemist with this big a wagon in a nine-player game, and am waiting for a persuasive explanation from my teammates for why BPC is town.
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Post #217 (isolation #38) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:33 am
Postby Alchemist21 »
In post 210, BBmolla wrote:(Quip it's possible Alche is just not very good, so calling him scum because he's not doing what good town do is kind of a meh argument.)
(No offense Alche. Or take offense, either way)
Do you think Quilford has been doing what good town do?
In post 12, Ms Marangal wrote:Molla: I don't know you or your meta that well, but from what I do remember, you're a pretty strong player as town and I hope to be seeing that here.
I'm home I'll try not to disappoint.
In post 17, Quilford wrote:I also know nothing about any of you! Except Bbmolla! Hi bb
In post 101, Patrick wrote:5 pages and my name not even mentioned! I feel left out.
Hi Mina, bbmolla, ETL, Ms Marangal. Don't think I know the others.
Vote: Alchemist21
. Definitely seems like scum.
^town
In post 184, BBmolla wrote:If I'm right about alch scum serra is partner
game solved
In post 185, BBmolla wrote:jesus fuck you guys are gonna think I copied you
I saw the same shit Patrick did
In post 186, BBmolla wrote:Pretty confident I'm not changing my vote ever
In post 192, BBmolla wrote:And you're scum in that original vote for your shitty rvs comment
@Mina, Show me where he has any reason for voting me other than my RVS vote and his sheeping. How does he actually get a scumread out of what I said in RVS anyway? I thought about the possibility of a slayer's gambit because it seems to be a trend in Team Mafia.
And btw, I did not ask you to join the Quilford wagon, I asked what your stance was on him.
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Post #223 (isolation #40) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:01 am
Postby Alchemist21 »
In post 222, Mina wrote:My non-troll answer is that Quilford says some pretty town things on this page, and I don't have more than mild paranoia, 50% of which was influenced by my evil teammates.
In post 153, Alchemist21 wrote:@Mina, He's null to me. There are people who take a little while longer to get reads in a game, and he hasn't done anything I would consider alignment indicative.
And why are Quilford and BBmolla (who've had more stances than BPC--Quilford made a case on page two) scummy for "not scumhunting"?
(I read your post as "Why are you townreading my buddy and not me?" and liked that you were implicitly calling yourself scummy, but that was probably influenced by where my reads were at the time.)
ETL hit town rediculously early and serras response to me was highly favorable and it's difficult seeing that actually coming from a town perspective.
Can you explain your serrapaladin town read? (I'm not parsing where it comes from.)
That's not what I was saying at all; I just didn't like the contradictory nature of the reads. It's not that I'm pushing them for not scumhunting, it's that Quilford pushed me for not scumhunting while he's just as guilty of it. Molla seems to think Quilford is scumhunting, but I don't get that impression. Molla came in and sheeped my wagon, adding the worst posible reason as his only original opinion, at a time when our wagons were tied. It wouldn't surprise me at all if scumMolla came, saw the wagons, and decided to jump onto my wagon as a CW.
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Post #224 (isolation #41) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:10 am
Postby Alchemist21 »
Flesh out that Quilford Townread for me. What do you see so Towny in his posts? I see him discrediting my push on him and Molla and dismissing it as "neither of us can prove our point to the other".
In post 221, Alchemist21 wrote:@Mina, Show me where he has any reason for voting me other than my RVS vote and his sheeping. How does he actually get a scumread out of what I said in RVS anyway? I thought about the possibility of a slayer's gambit because it seems to be a trend in Team Mafia.
Do you believe it's impossible to get a scum read on someone in RVS?
His later posts were the really town ones, but your case is basically that he's succinct. Aside from this being typical for BBmolla, succinct players aren't such rare creatures that anyone with a bit of experience onsite should be scumreading them JUST for being succinct. So if you're not scum, you're scumhunting very superficially--and inconsistently. (Basically, I agree with 201.) Do you have any scumreads who don't suspect you?
Anyway, I'd like to hear more from people who aren't in a back-and-forth with the Alchemist A couple more obvtown players would be nice before we move forward.
p-edit: I'll explain the read in more detail when I get home, Alchemist. A lot of it is gut, since I guess there are posts that someone could point to and go, "Aha, you're doing THIS superficially scummy thing."
If someone gets a scumread during RVS, it would have to be for a perceived scumslip. Apparantly he took my joke to be scummy, which is just stupid, and if that's really the reason he wants to come up with, it's a crap push.
My problem with them isn't that they're succinct; I know some players are like that. If that's what you took from my posts then you didn't read carefully enough.
I don't have scumreads outside those 2, and don't see why I should. 2 scumspects in a 2-scum game is ideal. Is it possible they're not both scum? Yes, but unless I see something scummy from another slot, or something happens to reverse my read on one of them, these are the 2 I feel are scum.
Alchemist wrote:@Patrick, what is the main difference you see between BPC and myself?
I don't think the two of you have been similar in your play so far. Early on he seems to be trying to get involved, points out a few things that stand out to him, asks some questions, etc. I don't think his indecision is much of a tell either way this early, and he immediately strikes me as a player who probably posts like that in all his games. I think someone else mentioned that as well. You've made a fair number of posts yourself, but alot of the early ones seem like you're trying to appear curious rather than gathering useful info or trolling for reactions. All of 24, 45 and 55 feel awkward to an extent, and that's without being picky. I can easily imagine you as scum nervously approaching the thread and making those posts.
Currently like my vote on Alchemist but in no rush for a L-1. The wagon is interesting; Mina and Quilford to an extent both look like they got on after it became popular without expressing strong suspicion before. Quilford feels townish in tone and a bunch of people seem to think he's clearly town based on meta, which I'm inclined to respect. Mina I don't feel that comfortable about; easy to imagine her as scum either bussing alchemist or just attacking the easy target. My team all seem to have concerns about her, though CES might just be doing it because he wants me to troll her.
BPC looking more town. Hit on alot of my trains of thought just there. Serra no clue, can easily see as either alignment. Mara and ETL look decent to me early on, just on gut. I can tell I'm going to have to be not lazy and actually read some people's other games over the Easter break, because I feel like I know very little about all of your forum games.
That's a fair contrast I suppose. I like how you're at least giving the reasons for your read and fleshing them out without acting like it's some super secret. I can understand your POV here, but that's not unusual for me; I used t get attacked for this kind of thing in my early Town games.
Where do you get the sense Mina is scummier than Quilford? Tbh I get the sense Quilford is latching onto Mina here, and my team and I are in agreement that scumQuilford probably means TownMina. Also, have you looked at Molla's posts?
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Post #258 (isolation #48) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:56 pm
Postby Alchemist21 »
Overall, I like BPC's posts so far. He seems to be considering everything and trying to understand the players and the game thoroughly to form an opinion. I'd say he and Patrick are my top 2 Town reads.
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Post #280 (isolation #51) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:53 am
Postby Alchemist21 »
RE BPC and Mina:
I get Town for both of these players. When BPC voted Mina, BBT told me he got Town vibes from him for not putting me at L-1. BPC's posts was set up so he could switch to me any time he wanted, but since then he's gone down the Mina path of interaction, so I'm pretty sure he's Town that's trying to get a good handle on the game.
I feel similarly about Mina. She didn't move to put me at L-1 just yet which she could have easily done by now. Her stream of conscious post was weird in that she picked at some pretty small and insignificant posts as what she liked/disliked, but the overall thought process she showed seems Town to me. BBT got scumvibes from her latest posts, but he's in agreement with me that a Quilford/Mina team doesn't make sense.
RE BBMolla: I feel better about him now, but he's still my second best bet for scum. That may change depending on what I see when ETL and Serra start posting more. BBT feels he's Town based on his later posts. Titus is still convinced he's scum doing a scum tunnel on me. She told me to look at Sabotage, and I'll take a look there when I can find it or she gives me the link.
RE Quiilford: We're all in agreement that he's the most likely candidate for scum.
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Post #295 (isolation #52) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 6:33 am
Postby Alchemist21 »
Quilford seems like he's starting to crack. Most of the people actually scumreading him are people not in the game. He seems bothered by Regfan's read in him even though Mina said she disagrees and thinks he's Town. I still get the sense he's trying to buddy up to Mina, and he just flat-out stated that part of why he can't let go of me is because of how I'm reading him.
In post 306, Patrick wrote:If I had to take a guess now, it would be alchemist/Serra. Everyone else has had at least something that seems town, some stronger than others.
Have you not read alchs most recent posts?
Can you point to anything specifically? Your read seems heavily based on my high post volume right now. Also, has Patrick done anything you would classify as scummy, or is your vote 100% a case of him being less Towny than others?
"you're scum because you're being hypocritical, and applying reasons for scum me that also apply to you"
"when did you solidify your read on me"
Ect... I'll match these up later to actual posts, though it shouldn't be to hard to see what is what.
Also, when I said he talked, I was stating that he has given me alot more to work off of compared to before when I had a maybe town, possibly scum read off him. Posting more does not make him town, but it's more he's posted
Quilford said that first one though. I just questioned it.
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Post #316 (isolation #59) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:14 am
Postby Alchemist21 »
Titus said she feels like Quilford is the watch-immune goon and the scumteam wants him protected at all costs. It's part of why she's hard scumreading Molla because she thought his push on me was as a defense of Quilford.
BBT feels Molla is town based on his latest posts and because he thinks there would be 1 scum on and 1 scum off my wagon, and I'm about 50/50 on Molla myself. I'm a lot less confident in my BBMolla read than I was before.