Signs and Void (Game Over) [TM2015]

DeasVail · Post Post #75 (isolation #1) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:58 am

In post 72, T S O wrote:Hi!

How's it going?

DeasVail · Post Post #77 (isolation #2) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:00 am

I am also pretty good, thanks!

DeasVail · Post Post #79 (isolation #3) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:03 am

I haven't read it yet, but soon!

DeasVail · Post Post #94 (isolation #4) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:44 am

Can you handle... the sweetness??? Are you developing a craving for that sweet sugary goodness between your lips??? No matter what your weakness, Sickeningly Sweet has arrived to assault all

five

six of your senses and leave you powerless to prevent us from

having a lot of fun!

winning this thing!

(Don't worry about that fiery planeswalker of rage, Ceph's a sweetheart deep down)

Let's get started then, shall we?

I haven't heard from my tooth-achingly delicious friends yet on their thoughts regarding the bane and choice, but my opinion at the moment is that while I wouldn't actually be terribly upset if we went for no bane, the bane should be used as if it were a lynch if we do use it, and that's how I'm intending to use my bane vote at this stage anyway. Oh and I'm Pro-Choice1.

In post 88, Titus wrote:Yes but Alquin's job is to appear scummy so scum do not kill him.

You don't need to be scummy to stop scum from killing you. I understand where you're coming from but I don't think we have to be so anxious regarding the use of bane. Obviously Alquin doesn't want to be lynched, so using the bane as we would a lynch should work ok imo. Besides, if we bane some scummy non-Alquin townie that's a candle, we may even scare scum into killing off a potential mislynch.

In post 92, Tammy wrote:No wait alquin is town.

I'm confused.

What about? I had my team talk me through the mechanics in the pregame phase when we got our role PMs because I had no idea what was going on at first.

DeasVail · Post Post #100 (isolation #5) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:59 am

If I didn't care way too much about what people thought of me, I'd be bumbling like an idiot too!

My understanding is that Titus is concerned about Alquin being important because he limits the number of unmakes/kill attempts the scum can make. I might be missing something, but I'm not super scared about bane possibly revealing Alquin, nor do I see any super good reason why we can't discuss it as long as Alquin doesn't stand on top of a mountain shouting out his name or something.

PEdit: That's his current avatar and I didn't know how to find the other one.

Plus, inner cuteness and all that jazz.

DeasVail · Post Post #141 (isolation #6) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:48 pm

Cheetory, can you please explain your current opinions on Tammy and Marquis?

In post 96, Marquis wrote:I keep thinking Alquin is the bad one even though I keep looking to remind myself he's not!

And my head's not really in the right state for this game at the moment, and because this is a special special game, instead of shitposting and talking incessantly on as usual I am going to take a step back and just watch for now!

I skimmed over this before, but would like to say that I very much enjoyed you as a player in our last game and while you are free to play in whichever way you like, your usual incessant talking and "shitposting" is cool too!

Bane: Untrod Tripod
Choice: 1

I've thought about it and I really believe that Choice 1 is better. I think it has great potential to confirm people as town where Choice 2 wouldn't. I'm happy to consider arguments for Choice 2 in the meantime though.

DeasVail · Post Post #145 (isolation #7) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:53 pm

In post 142, fferyllt wrote:oh my word I think deas is town.

Is this real life?

DeasVail · Post Post #156 (isolation #8) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:09 pm

The annoying thing about protection in this set-up is that you have no idea whether you actually stopped someone from being killed or not. It could have been some sort of roleblock, or the scum not knowing how to tell the difference between candle and stone or some other weird complicated theme thing. The great thing about choice 1 though, is that the successfully protected person is informed of the fact that they were successfully protected! Now the first thought from this is that scum can just claim to have been successfully protected ----> TOTES CONFTOWN, but this carries a great degree of risk for scum, because you know, someone actually needs to have protected you for you to have been successfully protected. I'm pretty sure there's quite a low chance that scum making up the fact that they'd been protected would have happened to be protected that night, so chances are scum are going to be all cowardly and cautious and not make up anything. But this means that town who have actually been successfully protected can claim so, and thus be pretty certainly town, especially since there'll be someone alive who in fact did protect them, which sort of helps matters.

Without Choice 1, we'll have no idea what even happened at night due to the complicated nature of the theme.

When I look at Choice 2 I just find it incredibly underwhelming. I mean, sure, if scum try to kill this protected person with two people it makes a difference, but I figure that if scum are desperate enough to have someone dead that they'd kill them twice, choice 2 will just mean they'll kill them three times. So, the difference doesn't seem that great to me?

As I said though, this is only my opinion and I very well could be missing some disadvantage to choice 1 or some benefit to choice 2. If such things exist, don't hold back!

DeasVail · Post Post #158 (isolation #9) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:14 pm

(Does not limit the number of uses of unmake)

DeasVail · Post Post #161 (isolation #10) » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:17 pm

I feel that I could have developed really bad tunnel-vision in regard to the choice though, so I really want to be challenged.

DeasVail · Post Post #191 (isolation #11) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:39 am

In post 190, Tammy wrote:
In post 141, DeasVail wrote:Cheetory, can you please explain your current opinions on Tammy and Marquis?

Why did you specifically ask him and why me and markee?

To me it sounded like he was townreading (or at least definitively 'not-scumreading') Marquis, yet seemed to be scumreading you, which was odd to me because I thought that the same thought process that would scumread you would also lead to scumreading Marquis, and the same kind of thing if townreading. I also liked his response though, and while Ceph thinks he's scum I'm more undecided and still have UT as my best guess.

DeasVail · Post Post #194 (isolation #12) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:13 pm

The two protections must be on the same person though, if I'm understanding correctly.

DeasVail · Post Post #219 (isolation #13) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:58 pm

In post 215, fferyllt wrote:
In post 191, DeasVail wrote:
In post 190, Tammy wrote:
In post 141, DeasVail wrote:Cheetory, can you please explain your current opinions on Tammy and Marquis?

Why did you specifically ask him and why me and markee?

To me it sounded like he was townreading (or at least definitively 'not-scumreading') Marquis, yet seemed to be scumreading you, which was odd to me because I thought that the same thought process that would scumread you would also lead to scumreading Marquis, and the same kind of thing if townreading. I also liked his response though, and while Ceph thinks he's scum I'm more undecided and still have UT as my best guess.

ceph played with him in the Advance Wars theme game. I'm also seeing some differences here from his play in that game.

however, I also meta'd some of his offsite scum/town games in that game, and I'm not really seeing stuff that shouts scum to me atm.

I think it's those differences that Ceph is seeing. I tend to get confused whenever I specifically set out to meta-read people though, so I'm leaving him as possible scum for now, but I've got higher priorities.

DeasVail · Post Post #230 (isolation #14) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:28 pm

In post 220, ActionDan wrote:Did you ever say why you thought UT was scum? (I also suppose this is an independent read from Ceph.)

Shadoweh wrote:It's really simple, protection doesn't work very accurately. It's better to have less effective protection that gives information then it is to have more effective protection that might not do anything at all.

And mine

I don't like UT's interactions with you nor do I like 41, which seems to be an attempt to be all pro-town and attack TSO for not thinking that there is some super great importance between choosing 1 and 2. I agree in that the choice probably does matter, but I can easily see town being indifferent to it, and the whole post is made even weirder by the fact that there's no real evidence that UT put a lot of thought into his choice. I guess I'm biased in that I still see Choice 2 as quite clearly inferior, but in my opinion if you're going to pick Choice 2 and then attack others for being indifferent to the Choice, you better have a good explanation!

This read did come before Ceph read the game, but he independently didn't like UT's abrasiveness and felt it was unnecessary. And while I think UT is the best bane choice, Ceph would be voting for Cheetory if he was in the game (and can confirm Ffery that Advance Wars is what Ceph was talking about in our PT).

DeasVail · Post Post #264 (isolation #15) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:53 pm

In post 239, Marquis wrote:
In post 141, DeasVail wrote:I skimmed over this before, but would like to say that I very much enjoyed you as a player in our last game and while you are free to play in whichever way you like, your usual incessant talking and "shitposting" is cool too!

Thank you, DeasVail! I enjoyed your play that game as well; it was minimally offensive, which made sense with you being SK in the end! I hope we can continue to buddy each other in this game without having to worry about you trying to pull the same tricks again!

This indeed won't be necessary unless you are scum. And I do have a ridiculously strong townread on you right now which I'm not sure is that rational, so hopefully not!

DeasVail · Post Post #274 (isolation #16) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:05 pm

In post 258, Cheetory6 wrote:I feel like Ceph is comparing my replacegame to my earlygame which is kind of unfair. q.q Although maybe there's more to it than that? Unless he really wants Deas to engage me on that, I'm not really sure I want to get too caught up on a self-centered meta discussion.

It's not a huge focus of mine right now, so there's probably no need at the moment. I'll let you know if Ceph has any questions for you though.

DeasVail · Post Post #282 (isolation #17) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:21 pm

In post 275, Marquis wrote:Why, thank you! I do wish I could completely return the favor, but in hindsight regarding Quil's game, I would very much love for you to actually explain the townread this time instead of baiting me to stew in my own happiness over it and generally ignore any scum indications as a result! So if you would, that would be very happy and kind of you to do!

Well first I guess I see this change in style you're adopting as pretty unlikely to come from scum. I try to imagine myself posting like that as scum and it just makes me feel all fake and urgh and yeah no way would I actually post like that because I'd expect to be lynched within the hour. From what I know of you though, it's the kind of style I could see you experimenting with as town, but if you were scum I'm pretty sure you'd just stick with how you regularly post, especially with the recent end to Quil's game where you were quite consistently townread iirc.

The not so rational part of my read is that all your posts make me smile and this kind of thing does influence me, probably more than it should! I think you're town for other reasons too though, so I'll convince myself that it's ok.

DeasVail · Post Post #285 (isolation #18) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:25 pm

Zar, would it be possible to elaborate a bit on Empire's meta townread of me?

DeasVail · Post Post #288 (isolation #19) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:30 pm

Tammy, how aware is Empire of your knowledge of this?

DeasVail · Post Post #291 (isolation #20) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:37 pm

In post 290, Zar wrote:
In post 285, DeasVail wrote:Zar, would it be possible to elaborate a bit on Empire's meta townread of me?

He's around now, he says that off the top of his head, you're self conscious and a lot more stiff and awkward when you're scum; basically your care a lot more about your image; when you're town you're more relaxed and don't really have a filter (he's going off the top of his head, he hasn't played with you in like a year).

Why does he have a confident read in me then if it's off the top of his head?

DeasVail · Post Post #296 (isolation #21) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:57 pm

In post 276, Zar wrote:Also, fferry, Empire is also townreading DV for meta and he potentially thinks shadoweh is town but isn't as confident in that read as in DV because he doesn't have that great a track-record with her.

This made the read on me sound pretty confident.

DeasVail · Post Post #297 (isolation #22) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:02 pm

In post 295, Tammy wrote:Because they are bullshitting a conversation they are not actually having. Well I mean they're having it now, but it's because they're pretending to discuss reads instead of actually have them.

Empire knows that I know he can read me pretty well and he'd be happy to catch me as scum. In the last westeros game, when MINA wasn't sure if I was scum she depended on empires read, who was spectating the game. Empire was my other head in fantasy camp; he has a pretty good insight into my scum game. And if you remember last year or so's yoloville he said he knew how to make me town tell if he wanted.

He'd tell me where I was going wrong on shadoweh if that slot was actually town and town reading shadoweh because he'd want a perfect town win here if possible and he wouldn't want me going off on a tangent he thought was wrong, and because he knows how I think about this game, he'd talk to me about it not just put me down.

If he were in this game, he'd probably do something close to that anyway because he'd be 1) playing to get a town read from me and 2) wouldn't want conflict. He can not do these things here because he wouldn't care because he's not the one in the direct conflict and leaving a message that's just putting me down instead of doing anything constructive he knows would bite and get me upset and then discredit me. And that slot is doing it on purpose because they're svum.

I think you may be onto something, but I'm wondering whether if Zar is scum, Empire etc. would feel a certain amount of pressure to conform to such expectations.

DeasVail · Post Post #315 (isolation #23) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:35 pm

In post 311, Tammy wrote:DV wrong the last time he played against him, so his meta read makes no sense.

This is a concern of mine too, especially with Zar being unable to decide whether it's a confident read or not, but I'd like to hear more first!

DeasVail · Post Post #370 (isolation #24) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:11 pm

In post 319, Zar wrote:
In post 315, DeasVail wrote:
In post 311, Tammy wrote:DV wrong the last time he played against him, so his meta read makes no sense.

This is a concern of mine too, especially with Zar being unable to decide whether it's a confident read or not, but I'd like to hear more first!

No. Empire says he has a strong read on you. He is basing it on the meta on you off the top of his head, though.

Thanks, that makes sense and I think I read you wrong before.

In post 340, Titus wrote:@GiF, Espy's in this game but he is a little nuts so I am giving him a little leeway. He will obvtown or obvscum without pressure...hopefully.

Espe is great and I'm super excited to be playing with him.

In post 341, Bulbazak wrote:Ceph has it right. You should listen to him.

If you're going to say stuff like this to me please back it up. I can be incredibly stubborn when it comes down to it and this isn't going to help. Why should I not be giving bane to UT? Why should I think that Cheetory being less analytical and more inclined to take potshots in early game here than in later-game elsewhere means he's scum? Why are you acting all superior and telling me to bane Cheetory when you're giving bane to Zar?

-

Oh, and unrelated, but I'm probably not going to be forming reads on people before they post and I don't get the benefit of giving bane to people who haven't posted. The only reason I can see is that because the bane target is not here we get to pretend that we're actually not giving the bane to anyone, so obviously I'm missing something.

Oh and regarding Cheetory's stance on Zar, I think it's pretty reasonable and quite similar to my own stance so it seems weird that Bulb would scumread him for it. I've been scared myself of getting swept up by what is actually a pretty good-sounding case and lynching a team that I think has great players who I'd love to have around if they're town. Obviously this isn't going to stop me from lynching them if I think they're scum, but I'm going to actually think it through, and Tammy's reaction is quite emotional, so it's reasonable to think it possible that she'd be less passionate about it later on. I don't think she will be, but for someone who isn't very familiar with the players, it makes a lot of sense.

I am concerned about Zar, particularly the team's townread on me which feels almost like it's because it's what all the cool kids are doing, and Tammy's words hold a lot of weight imo, but I've decided that I'd still rather bane targets such as UT or Bulbazak, who has more recently started to concern me. I probably can't explain why in coherent terms, but for me they just fit in my mind better as scum. If Zar is baned then I'm not going to be upset over it since my confidence in him not being scum is probably lower than this post makes out, but the sudden increase in interest in baning Zar (bulbazak's jump onto it is particularly bad imo) has me all cautious, and I don't know whether it's me being too much of a worry wart or not but it is what it is.

DeasVail · Post Post #373 (isolation #25) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:32 pm

I don't think I'm in the right state of mind to respond right now so I'll get back to you later.

DeasVail · Post Post #376 (isolation #26) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:34 pm

Sorry for probably being more abrasive than I should have been before.

Bulb, if you're town then I appreciate the advice, but I currently think you're scum for a number of reasons, not limited to you telling me what to do. I do form reads emotionally sometimes and I'm aware of this, but I feel it's unfair to dismiss my reads because of this, especially when they are not entirely emotional.

Regarding Cheetory, the stuff about being less analytical and taking pot-shots are the lines along which Ceph is thinking, and I don't know what to think of you claiming to be thinking along the same lines as Ceph when you evidently have no idea what Ceph was thinking. Well actually, I do have a theory, and I'll get to that.

Ultimately, I think you're attempting to manipulate me and doing a poor job of it. It would seem strange for someone to interact with the paragon in such a way, but it's quite common knowledge that I believe I'm not nearly as good as my banner would suggests, and I have been described using such words as meek, indecisive and submissive in the past. So, I do not believe it beyond you, or anyone else, to try manipulating me in such a way if you consider it in your best interests to do so. If you are scum as I suspect then you have vastly underestimated the extent of my paranoia.

You have told me that Ceph is right and that I should listen to him even though it has been proven that you have no idea what he was even saying. You say that I'm indecisive, and while this is a common feature of my play, I have been making a (most likely futile) attempt to live up to the paragon title that has been ascribed to me and don't believe that I've actually been indecisive here. I've been clear about which choice I want, to bane or not to bane, and also who I want to bane (ironically any indecision regarding this is only coming about now). You tell me that I'm lost when the only indication for this is that I don't agree with your reads. You are using my 'emotional side' in an attempt to get me to stop not-scumreading Cheetory when my reasons for disagreeing with you are merely seeing his position on the TammyvZar issue as a sensible one that I could see town taking, and not emotional at all. You claim that my townread on Marquis and lack of super strong scumread on Zar are only due to their buddying of me. However, my main reason for townreading Marquis is unrelated to his buddying (the influence of which on my read I'm quite aware of) and my main concern about Zar is his townread of me.

The above myriad of really strange (and pretty much entirely untrue) claims makes me think that you must be scum. I think it's very likely that people who don't know me well (and in fact probably all but those closest to me) would believe that the best method of defusing me as a threat would be to tell me I'm wrong, sew doubt into me regarding my own reads. Surely meek, indecisive, submissive DV would retreat into his bubble of self-loathing and follow your lead! I even believe that this could happen myself sometimes, and it was in fact my gut reaction to your comments, especially 374.

I guess having this paragon thing has instilled some semblance of confidence within me, and this is dangerous. Whether for town or scum though... that's still to be decided.

Things that give me more confidence in my read are the following:

-His response to Ffery in 341 is the kind of response I could see myself making as scum. Ffery's quote is rather harmless and under normal circumstances shouldn't give Bulbazak any cause for concern. She is aware of her tendency to scumread him or want to scumread him. However, I believe Bulb's reply reveals an underlying self-consciousness/need to be townread.
-Again in 341, I dislike the way he voted to bane Zar, acting as if it wasn't his choice to but rather his team-mate telling him to, when in fact he later claims that he does believe Zar is scum.

Bane: Bulbazak

Though really all I want is to see him lynched.

DeasVail · Post Post #384 (isolation #27) » Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:16 pm

In post 383, mastin2 wrote:How about that Choice 2, while not confirming players from the word of the mod, can still confirm players through word of the player, while making said protection stronger, meaning town potentially lives longer?

I don't get what you mean here, so if you could explain in simple terms it would be much appreciated. I do also have a more detailed posts explaining my preference of choice.

DeasVail · Post Post #500 (isolation #28) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:50 am

In post 395, mastin2 wrote:
In post 376, DeasVail wrote:Bulb, if you're town then I appreciate the advice, but I currently think you're scum for a number of reasons, not limited to you telling me what to do.
I have words to say on this.
I don't want to say them right now.

You may have elaborated on this later in the thread, but if you think I'm wrong then just tell me why. If you think I'm right then you can just say it.

In post 397, mastin2 wrote:
In post 384, DeasVail wrote:I don't get what you mean here, so if you could explain in simple terms it would be much appreciated. I do also have a more detailed posts explaining my preference of choice.
Two gives double the protection on a person, extending the life of a successful protect.
A player, be it that person or an external benefactor, can claim it.

Plus ~reasons~.

My understanding is that the double protection will only be of benefit if there are two kill attempts on a player. Additionally, I see little benefit from the claiming of protects due to the number of possible causes of a lack of kill, including scum not getting the sign right, roleblocks, protects and who knows what else? I may be missing something, but I haven't seen anyone bring up anything yet that stops Choice 1 from being the obvious choice for me.

In post 402, T S O wrote:And this is something I'm beginning to feel repeatedly paranoid about, especially in regards to Choice 1 - that scum will either manufacture a situation where they don't use an Unmake and claim protection, or they go the other route and make everyone paranoid of that so that the net result of someone claiming truthfully about getting a message about being protected ends up being almost zero.

I feel that scum claiming protection in Choice 1 is unlikely and incredibly risky because if no one protected them I feel it will become obvious and yay confscum. If we're treating protect claims as anything alignment-indicative with Choice 2, then I agree, we're screwed.

In post 412, Zar wrote:Basically, by choosing two, it forces the scum to have to focus on the same person to get them killed. Unmake requires them to match the sign correctly to a player to kill them, right? So it forces them to stay away from potential protective targets unless they decide to pile all up.

In that sense Choose: Two

My opinion still is that one is better. In the scenario where someone protects someone, scum still need at least two people to pile up on them if we choose choice 1. The only difference with choice 2 is that they need 3 (and only if their target is being protected), and I feel like the scenarios where this will actually make a difference are limited and not super beneficial compared to the information that can be gained from Choice 1. I guess what I'm imagining is this. If scum want to kill someone and don't know that they're going to be protected, they're probably only going to be submitting one unmake on them, which would not work with either choice 1 or choice 2 in effect. If scum know or strongly suspect that someone is going to be protected they can still kill them with choice 2 in place, just with one extra unmake, or they can avoid them completely and aim for the protective role etc. I'm probably feeling less passionate about 1 > 2 than I was before, since scum having to use that extra unmake to kill someone they really want to kill does limit the damage they can do, but I still feel the potential information gained from 1 makes that choice better.

Oh it's been decided anyway. Never mind!

In post 419, Cheetory6 wrote:
Bulba wrote:Look, I get that you're lost right now, but can you please not let yourself form judgements around who appeals to your emotional side.
Where exactly am I appealing to DV's emotional side in any of my interactions with him? :/

Yay I'm not crazy.

In post 428, Titus wrote:Bulba's also pretty town, just in case anyone's wondering.

Why?

--

Ffery, what are your/your team's thoughts on Bulbazak? Ceph tells me that Bulb is the sort of person who could be manipulative in such a way as scum and I think I might have only one game of prior experience with him? Anyway, it's a scumread I'm very interested in but I feel like in-thread thoughts on him have been very limited.

PEdit: Espe! Please don't be scum like people are saying you are!

DeasVail · Post Post #501 (isolation #29) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:52 am

Though how did you not know that it had started given that hito sent a daystart PM?

DeasVail · Post Post #510 (isolation #30) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:58 am

In post 502, Titus wrote:@DV, He asks questions, follows through on the answers and articulates his positions well. This is town Bulba.

Yeah I'm sorry but this doesn't make me feel any better about him.

PEdit: Thanks Espe.

DeasVail · Post Post #515 (isolation #31) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:02 am

In post 511, Titus wrote:It's not conftown but I feel really good about Bulba.

How do you explain his ultra-weird post to me where he tells me I'm indecisive, lost and townreading people because they buddied me when none of this is true?

DeasVail · Post Post #526 (isolation #32) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:18 am

In post 518, Espeonage wrote:I've decided I'm going to sass this entire game.

This would be quite excellent.

In post 519, Titus wrote:
In post 515, DeasVail wrote:
In post 511, Titus wrote:It's not conftown but I feel really good about Bulba.

How do you explain his ultra-weird post to me where he tells me I'm indecisive, lost and townreading people because they buddied me when none of this is true?

I do perceive some buddying with you, from Marquis and then UT. Can't Tell if Marquis is actually buddying or not because of the exclamation points fogging that up. You commented on UT yourself a little.

So I don't see that post as wierd just a disagreement about perceptions.

We do tend to like people who like us, so the alarm isn't wierd.

That's the one thing in his post that's partially true, and even with that I think I have a pretty objective reason for townreading Marquis and even the less objective part is a personal enjoyment of his posts rather than him buddying me. (And I'm pretty sure UT and I have never buddied each other)

This thing about Marquis wouldn't be a concern to me by itself. It's not a huge leap to think I'm townreading Marquis because he's buddying me. But you've kind of ignored all the other stuff which is even less substantiated imo.

DeasVail · Post Post #537 (isolation #33) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:29 am

Titus, here are the posts (although I sort of treat them as one post) that especially concern me about Bulbazak. I asked you for your explanation of the things that concern me, which I've bolded here.

Spoiler: Bulb's posts

In post 372, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 370, DeasVail wrote:Why should I not be giving bane to UT?

I'm really not seeing the point in giving it to UT. I agree that those early posts seemed off, but not in the way that the body of Cheetory or Zar does. For me, UT is a "wait and see" read, while the others are full fledge scum reads, hence why I want to bane them. Maybe you're seeing something that I'm not, but I don't see why UT deserves the bane more than Cheetory, Zar, or any other scum read.

In post 370, DeasVail wrote:
Why should I think that Cheetory being less analytical and more inclined to take potshots in early game here than in later-game elsewhere means he's scum?

I never said that's why he's scum. I'm looking at the way he's reacting to different players, and it doesn't feel like town to me.

In post 370, DeasVail wrote:
Why are you acting all superior and telling me to bane Cheetory when you're giving bane to Zar?

I typed that before I decided to switch to Zar. I still think Cheetory is a better bane target than UT, though. However, if you had to choose between Cheetory or Zar, I'd go with Zar. My point is that Cephrir seems to be thinking along the same lines as myself, which is a good thing, and
given your indecisiveness, it might be a good idea to listen to him.

In post 370, DeasVail wrote:
Oh and regarding Cheetory's stance on Zar, I think it's pretty reasonable and quite similar to my own stance so it seems weird that Bulb would scumread him for it.

Look, I get that you're lost right now, but can you please not let yourself form judgements around who appeals to your emotional side.
You're doing an awful lot of that right now, and I'm afraid you're not looking at things objectively. Cheetory was not being indecisive about Zar. He was trying to dismantle Tammy's push on Zar while telling Zar to stop scumming it up.

P-edit: In other news, Vezok's scum.

In post 374, Bulbazak wrote:
Just please look at how you responded to Marquis and Zar when they both buddied up to you.

And this is the question I asked:

In post 515, DeasVail wrote:
In post 511, Titus wrote:It's not conftown but I feel really good about Bulba.

How do you explain his ultra-weird post to me where he tells me I'm indecisive, lost and townreading people because they buddied me when none of this is true?

Yet you only talk about Marquis.

DeasVail · Post Post #539 (isolation #34) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:38 am

Ok. Thanks for answering.

DeasVail · Post Post #544 (isolation #35) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:05 pm

In post 541, Titus wrote:@DV, Join me on Zar. If you think Bulba's scum discrediting emotional play, then he's indirectly wanting to discredit Tammy. We all know she made an emotional plea to vote Zar based on the Empire stuff. The only reason to do that as scum is Bulba/Zar.

The 'discredit Tammy' theory is too indirect to be conclusive for me and I'm at a position where I actually have some confidence in Bulbazak in being scum whereas I don't have as much in Zar being scum. So, I'm going to try and get Bulbazak baned if I possibly can, but if it gets down to it, I'd probably be willing to compromise on Zar since my team thinks he's scum and he's not exactly a townread for me either.

DeasVail · Post Post #545 (isolation #36) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:06 pm

I have a few games' worth of experience with town-Marquis fwiw, but I don't think I've seen him as scum before.

DeasVail · Post Post #581 (isolation #37) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:52 pm

In post 576, Shadoweh wrote:It can't be Deevee, he's too cute to be manipulative!

Is this serious, sarcastic or a weird mixture of both?

DeasVail · Post Post #604 (isolation #38) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:53 pm

My totally flawless approach is to keep thinking that Tammy is town until I have the misfortune of playing against Tammy-scum (and probably losing).

DeasVail · Post Post #607 (isolation #39) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:01 pm

In post 605, Titus wrote:So DV, you haven't seen Tammy scum either in your games?

I saw her in TM2012 and there was one game ages ago where she was scum but I was daykilled 24 hours into the game and was too bitter to actually pay attention. Now every time I play with her she's ridiculously town and then she ends up being town! So, even though I hear rumours of her great scumgame, I have convinced myself that it's ok if I ignore these.

(In all seriousness I do try and read her but suspect that if she were scum in a game she would probably have me fooled)

DeasVail · Post Post #613 (isolation #40) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:10 pm

I think it was the one where MattP caught you. Maybe kanye modded it?

DeasVail · Post Post #616 (isolation #41) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:12 pm

All I remember was being killed for no reason and MattP suspecting you and you being scum, so I'm not any better off there.

DeasVail · Post Post #624 (isolation #42) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:47 pm

I could see this happening from either scum-circlejerk or town-circlejerk so you're going to have to perform Empire.

(Hi! It's really cool to be playing with you again after so long but I think you might be scum so I'm trying to be mean and pressure-y. GRRR!)

DeasVail · Post Post #632 (isolation #43) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:59 pm

In post 627, Empire wrote:P-edit (DV): Uhh, if you think I would deliberately walk into a scum slot, especially after not having played for like a year, then I'm going to have to ask the admins to remove the banner, sorry.

I would ask them to remove it myself if it wasn't an insult to the whole scummies process! But yeah, I'm ridiculously paranoid and have no real way of telling when I'm being paranoid or perceptive, and it makes sense to me that you'd find some sudden inspiration to shock everyone with a badass scumgame in order to boost your chances of winning this game just because of how town the move looks on the surface. I am, however, prepared to be amazed.

DeasVail · Post Post #636 (isolation #44) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:06 pm

In post 629, Titus wrote:Not liking the AtE against DV.

I am incredibly confused as to why you are calling out Empire on that, but have no problem with Bulbazak.

DeasVail · Post Post #670 (isolation #45) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:14 pm

Bulba, I have read your post and I still think you're scum. I don't see the point in saying anything more than this though.

DeasVail · Post Post #677 (isolation #46) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:10 pm

My gut reaction to recent posts is that Espe and Empire are town (Empire's townread on me no longer really bothers me at least), but I don't have the time right now to go over everything as I would like and I think I have the tendency to go Wow! at posts like that as well. I have an exam tomorrow and after that I should have more time! Though Tammy, I would be particularly keen to hear updates from you on your thoughts on Empire as

1. Empire is similar to you in that I think I've only ever seen him as town and probably townread him every time (unless I was scum) and am afraid of going :O big post = town here, and
2. If Empire is town then I'd very much like to realise that because I think his whole team is amazing and would very much like to work with them without the barrier of thinking they're scum beyond base paranoia levels. (And probably another reason why I need someone to tell me if I'm too easily being wooed)

No need to feel any pressure here, and I can't guarantee that I'll agree if you scumread him, but yeah, I think you probably get what I mean.

DeasVail · Post Post #683 (isolation #47) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:32 pm

In post 681, Marquis wrote:Empire kind of reads here as rubbing the ~effort~ in everyone's face! Scum for the emphasis on it I think!

Is there something beyond the high amount of post content that makes you think this? The actual degree of effort doesn't deviate from my expectations of town-Empire.

DeasVail · Post Post #686 (isolation #48) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:49 pm

I'm off for about a day or so now. I might have to do a thorough re-think of my reads when I get back, I'm not sure. In the meantime, each of you remember that you're very cool and making this game lots of fun even if you're the scummy scum scumz!

DeasVail · Post Post #688 (isolation #49) » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:50 pm

Well if you weren't a pretty cool guy then I wouldn't have been able to say what I said, so it's your fault!

DeasVail · Post Post #870 (isolation #50) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:11 pm

My first thought was surprise and excitement that Nacho was in the game.

DeasVail · Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:06 pm

In post 692, Tammy wrote:Like it baffles my mind and you are never ever ever allowed to make that smug claim that people should hang up their shoes and go home or that DV should hang up the banner again. That is nothing you're allowed to say ever again.

Tammy, I appreciate the sentiment, but I took that comment from Empire as pretty light-hearted banter and not something very serious. It sort of matches my expectation of both him and Regfan (who I sort of consider the same person in my head even though I've met one of them which doesn't make any sense but whatever) and is definitely something I could see either of them saying and I'm ok with that. To me it feels completely different from what Bulbazak's approach to me was, but I think I'm going to be stalling making a decision on both reads until Major Day.

In post 717, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 658, Shadoweh wrote:
Bane: Bulbazak

Hey Bulba. Why are you picking a fight with Deasvail if you think he's one of the most obvtown players in the game?

What was your problem with this? I more specifically had a problem with exactly how much effort he was putting into making me realise that my read on him was flawed, but it was the same kind of thing.

In post 883, Titus wrote:Hey, I'd love your thoughts... but please avoid emotion land if you can.

Emotion land is the happiest place on Earth!

In post 941, Tammy wrote:Also whoever gets informed of being protected probably shouldn't out it unless it becomes necessary

This was a recent thought of mine as well.

In post 972, Espeonage wrote:You self voting is a really bad sign though.

Why?

In post 995, Gammagooey wrote:
Gammagooey wrote:
I think we might want to have 2-3 people we think are scummy say that they're detecting tonight to try to find Viktor- since traces always come up null for him we can start clearing people of being Viktor on a successful trace -
I'm a bit wary of saying that we should immediately lynch someone tomorrow if they come up with a couple of trace fails in case scum have something that would make traces fail on other people but we can at least start clearing people of being Viktor in case he/she's wound up as one of the stronger players on their team and doesn't get lynched for a while.

I don't want volunteers for this by the way. It needs to be at least a few people coming to a consensus on scummy people for it to have a chance to actually hit Viktor, not people volunteering to get cleared of being him.

I'm going to finish reading the thread, and then decide what I think of this. I'm still not sure how worth it it is.

In post 1012, Empire wrote:Like, I'm starting to wonder if I'm just being bad or something because it seems like everyone (including apparently at least one of my teammates) think Mr. Boring Quote Strip Guy is plainly scum.

I'm going to reassess at some point, but my conclusion may very well still end up being scum.

In post 1018, Empire wrote:Tammy and/or DV, do you think this CDB sounds like CDB in The Wire?

I will get to this, but not yet. Sorry about the delay.

In post 1031, ChannelDelibird wrote:I can understand you reaching for this if we haven't played together since then, but that game feels like a very long time ago. Pretty sure both of those people have more recent experience with me.

I'm not sure that I do, honestly.

---

Regarding boon, I'm pretty underwhelmed by it honestly. The main thing I'm thinking is that there's no way I want scum getting it because as if we're going to make their job any easier for them. And because of this, I would be ok with getting it, but I also believe that there is potentially someone else who would benefit more from it than I would (who's not scum). As it stands, I would only be comfortable giving it to myself or a strong townread, and these are currently limited to Tammy and Marquis, although while I have finished reading the thread, I haven't put a great deal of thought into my reads yet, so there could be more after I do that. TSO and Vezok are potential contenders.

I'm still not sure whether I'll post a big reads list or keep it quiet, but I'll be back with more thoughts soon enough.

DeasVail · Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:13 pm

While I don't think there is anything wrong with recapturing one's youth, or even being youthful in the face of a society that looks down on such a thing, my point is that emotion land is superior.

DeasVail · Post Post #1068 (isolation #53) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:51 pm

In post 1063, Shadoweh wrote:There is, actually. For example, the part where Espeonage claimed VT, presumably because he thought he had too much of a chance of being nightkilled. I would say your post on it increased my townread of you but the extended family of We Need a Better Name was already hardtown reading you so. <_<

I guess I have faith in people to be careful about the implications of what they say. Scum are very free to speculate on what I am based on my post but will probably get it wrong no matter what.

DeasVail · Post Post #1077 (isolation #54) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:36 pm

In post 1070, fferyllt wrote:
In post 1063, Shadoweh wrote:extended family

interesting (though not really relevant to anything) that you used this word. I've been talking about extended families to Nacho wrt these games.

I'm not sure about the implications the use of this term has on my team.

DeasVail · Post Post #1081 (isolation #55) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:55 pm

In post 1078, Shadoweh wrote:You know what they say Deevee, incest is wincest!

Thank you Shadow.

--

Regarding Gamma's proposal, I've decided that I disagree and don't really want to explain why.

And Empire, when it comes to CDB and The Wire, the only thing I really remember about CDB from that game was that he skated by for a while because of a really 'townie' reaction to some pressure he was getting. Ceph thinks CDB is town but I'm not seeing it. Still have to decide what my overall read is there though, but it will most likely not be based on meta.

DeasVail · Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:16 am

I'm going to try something new for me because I always enjoy reading posts of this style and this is Team Mafia so why not? It might be the only time I ever do this and knowing me I may very well give up after less than half the playerlist! I do have a lot of time though and nothing better that I'm going to be doing with it, so here we go! Also, Ceph is amazing and has posted some thoughts on this game, so those will be influencing this post as well.

Spoiler: Don't Expect Much

Empire, my admiration for you guys has increased enormously now. My post took less than a 1/4 the effort of the ones you and people like you make and I have already sworn to myself that I'm never attempting anything like this ever again (well maybe not as final as that, but close).

DeasVail · Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:31 am

I don't know how essential reading it is honestly. I feel pretty ok about my Tammy, Marquis, TSO, Vezok and Espeonage reads, but everything else is either me pretending to have a read because I'm sick of putting people in the middle or me being lazy and not even pretending.

DeasVail · Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:32 am

Oh except for Bulbazak but I don't actually say anything new there.

DeasVail · Post Post #1122 (isolation #59) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:20 am

Oh realised I never did this.

Boon: Tammy

Marquis and TSO are also ok options, but Tammy is preferred due to being the least likely scum imo and also I don't think this boon is the kind of thing that's going to make a huge difference to night kill chances etc. I may not be as concerned about this as I should be though, so as I said Marquis, TSO and maybe vezok are also ok.

DeasVail · Post Post #1164 (isolation #60) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:32 pm

In post 1159, fferyllt wrote:Great job ignoring the confirmed town you guys wanted to hand the boon decision to earlier.

If you want to tell me why I should not be voting for my strongest townread I'm open to that, but I'm not going to blindly follow you.

DeasVail · Post Post #1166 (isolation #61) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:35 pm

Is there reasoning beyond thinking he's town that you're willing to disclose or not?

DeasVail · Post Post #1170 (isolation #62) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:42 pm

In post 1167, fferyllt wrote:I have a ton of catch up to do sitewide because real life is kicking my butt this week. I'll firm up and explain my reasoning as soon as I can.

Cool, no rush and I hope real life gets less butt-kicky.

My concern with vezok is that I worry people may be underestimating him as a scum player and are more comfortable with townreading him for that reason. I think he's town, but I'd really like to make sure this boon doesn't reach scum.

PEdit: Haha, I guess it has! I don't mind too much though. I think all 4 contenders are town, I just get paranoid!

DeasVail · Post Post #1174 (isolation #63) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:00 pm

In post 1172, Cheetory6 wrote:Vezok doesn't look bad either but I have literally 0 experience with him.

Why does this matter and why are you comfortable with booning me if it does matter?

DeasVail · Post Post #1177 (isolation #64) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:06 pm

In post 1175, Cheetory6 wrote:Because I've seen some of your play before in a game that we've both been in together/you post more content/are more open than he is/my townread on you is stronger?

I don't remember playing with you before, but that's probably my fault!

DeasVail · Post Post #1184 (isolation #65) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:46 pm

In post 1183, Cheetory6 wrote:
Titus wrote:why are you booning a guy who said he did not want the boon.
Don't remember him saying that/I've been skimming last little while because school is awful. Just picked person that felt like best choice.
If Deas doesn't actually want it then

Boon: TSO

for now.

Eh, I'm pretty indifferent to it, and while part of me does want it just because I think everyone could be scum sometimes, that mindset is probably not healthy and there are town roles that would benefit from it more than mine.

DeasVail · Post Post #1189 (isolation #66) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:14 pm

In post 1187, Empire wrote:
In post 1173, Shadoweh wrote:Please do not out the person's sign you read, Empire's idea is a terrible idea.

While it's not my idea, why is it a terrible one? It's not like the boon is likely to be very useful otherwise. A single player having the knowledge of one other person's sign has little to no gain in most cases. It's far better to use it as essentially another bane.

There are some roles that will want to know the sign of people who aren't scummy though.

DeasVail · Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:35 pm

Bulba, your questions to me don't have answers beyond what I've already said, sorry.

DeasVail · Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:01 am

In post 1262, Bulbazak wrote:Okay, I can kinda get that for the Aronis read, but not on the TTH post. I want to know what in that post you specifically found scummy, because you brought it out for a reason.

If I had an answer I probably would have said it already!

DeasVail · Post Post #1314 (isolation #69) » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:33 pm

Boon: Vezok

DeasVail · Post Post #1419 (isolation #70) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:16 am

In post 1368, Bulbazak wrote:It's unnerving that he's not playing in a manner that he knows most players would town read him if he's town.

Why do you think he wouldn't do this if he's scum?

In post 1389, Espeonage wrote:I am against a TTH lynch because of reasons.

How good are these reasons in your opinion? (This is a genuine question and not meant to be sarcastic)

In post 1399, ChannelDelibird wrote:Empire saying that DV doesn't care about his image is off. DV has been talking a lot in this game about his being Paragon, what people expect from that, how he thinks he plays and how he expects his play to change in relation to that. He's very self-conscious. I don't think that's necessarily a scummy thing if he's only just won the title (first game since?) but i think you have to say he's massively image-conscious.

For what it's worth this isn't something I have a problem with from them, but I'll let Empire respond before elaborating. I'd also be interested in examples of where you came to the conclusion that I care about my image. It's true, and I do way more than I should, but I'm pretty sure the paragon stuff is kind of irrelevant so you mentioning that as the reason is

.

Regarding Bulbazak, I think you're right that I did over-react, especially regarding Ceph's read on Cheetory. I'm still worried about being too emotionally invested in scumreading him, so I'll have another look through his posts before voting him or anything like that (this'll take a while to happen though). However, there are many things about him that still bother me, including in the post I over-reacted to.

--

Espe, I think you're town and I think Tammy's town. Please tell me where I/others have gone wrong in our reads of Tammy. I'm not saying it's impossible, but with my team thinking Tammy's town and ffery & co. thinking Tammy's town, it's hard to be doubtful about my own read.

Regarding TTH, my impression of her was (and still kind of is) scum, but I need to hear more from her. Detecting me is more (or perhaps not more) interesting than you may expect, but I'm not entirely sure what to make of it right now.

DeasVail · Post Post #1425 (isolation #71) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:37 am

In post 1416, fferyllt wrote:Nacho and I talked over our Empire read overnight and we're leaning town there now

Are you willing to disclose your reasons here or would you prefer to keep them quiet?

DeasVail · Post Post #1427 (isolation #72) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:50 am

Thanks ffery.

DeasVail · Post Post #1457 (isolation #73) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:26 pm

In post 1118, DeasVail wrote:Espeonage: Espe is interesting in that there are some things that actively concern me (him reading a boon self-vote as scummy is the main thing), but overall I think his play is way too messy to be from scum. He's this low for a reason though, so don't consider my confidence in this incredibly high, but hey, I think he's town and so does Ceph. Things that I think indicate town are his talk of wanting to be baned, his weird VT claim, and his desire to get involved with the thread and reading people despite obviously not being clued in on what's actually been going on. My caution stems from the possibility that this stuff is faked, but why even fake it as scum? I can relate to some of his play and I can't relate to other parts, but in my experience if something doesn't make sense to me from either town or scum it's usually from town, and that's part of the reasoning behind my read here.

This is what I've said before and I've noticed more town things since, but it's another read that I want to look over when I get time.

Regarding activity, I've become quite busy so I don't know how active I'll be. I should have some time to work on this tonight though.

DeasVail · Post Post #1465 (isolation #74) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:31 pm

In post 1464, vezokpiraka wrote:Can we lynch TTH and continue from there?

I'm not really seeing a scenario where TTH flips town.

I feel like you're missing possibilities, unless you have more information than I do.

DeasVail · Post Post #1544 (isolation #75) » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:24 am

I haven't been able to read properly, but I'd like to not lynch TTH today.

I'd also like mastin to explain her strong reaction to the reasons for the TTH wagon considering her lack of engagement with the game. You're acting like someone who has a strong handle on the game and is very confident that her views > everyone else's in 1505, yet this sentiment is not shared by other posts.

Really sorry about my lack of activity recently. Things are slightly less crazy than they were before and hopefully I can do ~stuff~ this weekend.

DeasVail · Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:18 pm

I have not read up at all, but can we please not speculate about Empire's replace-out like it was related to alignment whatsoever? When life sucks, mafia becomes a cumbersome burden no matter what your alignment is (at least in my experience), so please just stop.

DeasVail · Fri Apr 10, 2015 11:14 am

I'm getting back into this game now right now so scum better get scared!

DeasVail · Post Post #1833 (isolation #78) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:33 pm

TTH! If you want me to consider Marquis as scum you're going to have to give me a whole lot more than you're currently giving.

In post 1545, Titus wrote:@Cheetory,

Bulbazak is town because of the fluidity but logical consistency of his opinions. People are consistently inconsistent. I feel that people jumped on the first thing they disagreed with as scummy, rather than actually seeing what was actually scummy. My team told me to be hesitant on declaring people were scum so when I saw the massive pile up on Bulba for reasons I could not even divine much less understand, I figured the push was on town rather than on scum. I know occasionally I am wrong. Given those voices on Bulba's slot have suddenly gone quiet today when it's actually time to lynch Bulba, I can conclude either I was right or scum were setting up massive distancing for towncred. I'm more inclined to believe the former.

P-edit... well I thought no one was make a bulba is scum push...

First, I think that being inconsistent is actually one of the easiest things for scum to do, and second, someone being busy shouldn't have any impact on the alignment of who they're scumreading?

Singer, why the townread on ActionDan?

Espe, I gave you the opportunity to convert me to the light and implant the grand idea of Tammy-scum into my mind, but you didn't take the opportunity.

In post 1716, Titus wrote:Cops might also check DV.

Um, they better not waste their time doing that. Also the strength of my vezok townread has doubled, and he was pretty strong town before...

In post 1743, Untrod Tripod wrote:holy shit guys

holy shit we have nothing to go on

can we just lynch someone bad and move on

Posts like these make it seem like you care about the game, but your actions make it seem like you don't! Why?

In post 1747, Bulbazak wrote:If true, explain why I would pick a fight with a universal townread as scum, since that seems pretty counterintuitive to me.

People are usually pretty quick to dismiss a fight as townvtown. Picking a fight with me if you're town seems more counterintuitive honestly.

In post 1747, Bulbazak wrote:(although being sheeped by Vezok is unnerving me a bit).

Why? Vezok has just become more and more town?

In post 1762, Marquis wrote:this is also me admitting my original reasons were probably really dumb aside from the sheeping itself but i still refuse to believe town!anti swaps out of the game while continuing to keep up with it enough to relay a scumread on me based on my scumread and concern over your slot for reasons that he knows exist and are mostly true. it's even more bullshit bullshit bullshit.

This has crossed my mind as well, but I still think not lynching TTH is the way to go today (will explain later).

Bulba, why is Shadow conf town?

In post 1823, fferyllt wrote:Nacho agrees that a 70-30 time split between the two lynches sounds better than 50-50.

I say let's lynch when we feel like it! (Preferably not too late though, but I trust people to be at least sort of sensible)

--

Ok finally caught up!

Ffery/Tammy/Respective Teams: I would very much like your thoughts on Mastin. I'm scumreading her, but I feel more caution there than I would with someone else.

Regarding TTH:

I'm just as skeptical as any of you about her alignment, but I feel there are good reasons for keeping her around. First, she's made this super bold claim about being confirmed minor day two. Now do I actually think this is going to happen? No, I think it's probably scum trying to bide time, but if scum really wants to be lynched day two instead of day one then we may as well let them. She might just be town! And if it turns out that this was all some big ruse to avoid being lynched then there's no way I'm letting her get away with that because I've tried it as scum before and didn't get away with it, so it's not allowed to work for anyone else!

Secondly, if TTH is scum (which I think is reasonably likely), now we get to imagine scum agonizing over whether or not to kill me as we fall asleep tonight (or do other secret stuff). Do they kill me and potentially reveal TTH's alignment??? Or do they leave me alive in the hope that I'll be distracted from her telltale heart??? I don't know, maybe this isn't as cool as I think it is but I sort of love imagining scum squirm deep down (I'm really quite terrible).

I took longer to catch up than I anticipated and I still have to decide who I want to lynch (answers to my questions would be quite nice), but I'm thinking my pool is currently:

[ActionDan, Aronis, Bulbazak, GiF, Mastin2, Shadoweh]

I'll hopefully narrow this down some more. I've become less sure of my Bulbazak read lately, but there's nothing that would really stop me from lynching him.

DeasVail · Post Post #1838 (isolation #79) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:46 pm

In post 1836, fferyllt wrote:I'm going to stop worrying about you. I'm going to look back at this post every time I start worrying again.

<3

I don't understand what's been happening this game and it feels like some kind of weird dream but I'll take it!

<3

In a way it's kind of a shame that you're conftown because this would have been even better if I was townreading you as well (without it being cheating).

Also looking forward to hearing your thoughts, but I know it may take a while to get here.

DeasVail · Post Post #1840 (isolation #80) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:54 pm

NY172 is the only one I can remember. And yeah, things are a bit more boring this game even for me with no one scumreading me.

DeasVail · Post Post #1851 (isolation #81) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:16 pm

I'm pretty sure this all has been mentioned already though.

PEdit: Yeah

PEdit: Titus she's not saying what you think she is.

DeasVail · Post Post #1855 (isolation #82) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:22 pm

In post 1853, Titus wrote:@DV, Clarification please...

she's talking about scum QTs in general rather than here.

DeasVail · Post Post #1893 (isolation #83) » Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:16 pm

Espe, who should we be lynching?

DeasVail · Post Post #1933 (isolation #84) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:43 am

Gut reaction to mastin's posts is town, but I'll reassess tomorrow.

DeasVail · Post Post #1967 (isolation #85) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:42 pm

Ffery, what do you and your team think of the way Shadoweh has approached the Westeros slot throughout the game and how this has changed over time?

Also, talk to me about Espe. I still think his play looks kind of ridiculous coming from scum in a way that doesn't feel staged or planned out, so what are the reasons behind your scumread I guess?

Probably refining my pool for the first lynch to:

[ActionDan, Aronis, Bulbazak, GiF]

DeasVail · Post Post #1969 (isolation #86) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:49 pm

VOTE: Bulbazak

DeasVail · Post Post #1984 (isolation #87) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:27 pm

Espe.

DeasVail · Post Post #1997 (isolation #88) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:39 pm

In post 1985, Espeonage wrote:What's up?

I don't really know what to say I guess. Your play here confuses me.

DeasVail · Post Post #1999 (isolation #89) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:43 pm

In post 1998, Espeonage wrote:ok, and?

Even though I have stated my belief otherwise, I still do worry that this is some sort of experimental act that you're trying out. Problem is I don't know how to work out whether I'm right or wrong about thinking you town.

DeasVail · Post Post #2001 (isolation #90) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:49 pm

It seems this game that you often make rash assumptions from things (e.g. the whole detect thing, and thinking Tammy was talking about Mastin when it was actually TTH) and then become uncooperative with anyone who becomes frustrated by you doing this, not really considering why they would be frustrated with you I guess.

DeasVail · Post Post #2009 (isolation #91) » Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:26 pm

In post 2008, Espeonage wrote:
In post 2001, DeasVail wrote:It seems this game that you often make rash assumptions from things (e.g. the whole detect thing, and thinking Tammy was talking about Mastin when it was actually TTH) and then become uncooperative with anyone who becomes frustrated by you doing this, not really considering why they would be frustrated with you I guess.

Ok fair enough, but how is that an intentional experimental style? What would be the point?

Well that's entirely why I think you're town, but sometimes it seems beyond what I'd expect from you and it makes me less certain.

I guess the point for scum would be to be universally townread yet never a likely nightkill target (so no one worries that you're still alive), but I agree that this is a stretch.

DeasVail · Post Post #2115 (isolation #92) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:37 am

I don't have time to sort this out now, but I don't like the current wagons very much. I'll try and post more tomorrow.

DeasVail · Post Post #2221 (isolation #93) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:43 am

I'm phone posting so I don't know how much sense it will make but whatever. If I get the chance to post again I will.

I don't like the Espeonage wagon. People are frustrated with him and I get that,but how does that make him scum? People are saying it doesn't matter if he's town and I get that, but we're bound to be wrong enough that I don't want to waste lynches on people we cant be bothered dealing with or reading properly. The fact is that Espeonage is sort of all over the place and his play doesn't make any sense to me from scum and so I think he's town and don't want to lynch him.

I don't dislike the singer wagon as much, but I'm sort of skeeved out by some people seeming much more interested in that after Empire replacing out and I wonder why that could be???

CDB I could see being scum, but he's V/LA and so I think it would be a pretty cool idea to wait until he's not busy having a great time doing other stuff to lynch him.

While TTH really is probably scum and her telling me my lynch pool sucks with no explanation is much appreciated, I've explained my reasons for not wanting to lynch her.

Let's lynch Bulbazak.

DeasVail · Post Post #2222 (isolation #94) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:45 am

Oh and Marquis is still as town as he was before so no thanks.

DeasVail · Post Post #2224 (isolation #95) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:53 am

I meant read him not lynch him, but you get the idea. I'm not as sure as you are, but I'm putting off reading him partly out of laziness so we'll see.

DeasVail · Post Post #2231 (isolation #96) » Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:59 am

In post 2225, GuyInFreezer wrote:And I'm saying that you don't need to worry about that slot cos it's town.

I appreciate the sentiment, but frankly I don't trust you enough to take your word for it.

In post 2227, Titus wrote:@DV, who else do you suspect?

Look at my lynch pool plus TTH plus other people I suspect but don't want to lynch yet and don't really feel like talking about right now.

DeasVail · Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:04 am

In post 2234, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 2231, DeasVail wrote:I appreciate the sentiment, but frankly I don't trust you enough to take your word for it.

Why does putting a trust in me a factor when CDB townslipped with CES?

I probably haven't read it.

DeasVail · Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:13 am

In post 2232, Titus wrote:Remind me who they are...

ad, aronis, Bulbazak, gif

In post 2241, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 2237, DeasVail wrote:I probably haven't read it.

You probably wouldn't understand it if you read it. This is something that only me and my teams can understand fully.

oh then yes, trust is relevant, cool

DeasVail · Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:21 am

In post 2248, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 2246, DeasVail wrote:oh then yes, trust is relevant, cool

Are you seriously intend to go semantics on this
I'm really disappointed, even more after your 2221.

I haven't read the recent part of the game properly nor do I want to lynch CDB, so the amount of effort I intend to devote to reading him right now is limited. I guess I'm also kind of annoyed by you saying I don't need to trust you and then revealing that I essentially do but it has no influence on my read of you.

DeasVail · Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:34 am

In post 2065, Espeonage wrote:Weighing in on people debating bulba. Bulba is actually progressing to about my strongest townread.

Why?

In post 2141, Espeonage wrote:Ok what are people's opinions on TTh's case on Marq?

I didn't like it.

In post 2154, Espeonage wrote:There's a perfectly wonderful, concise and well thought out case. Get your head out of your ass titus.

I was really not very impressed by it.

In post 2255, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 2253, DeasVail wrote:
In post 2248, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 2246, DeasVail wrote:oh then yes, trust is relevant, cool

Are you seriously intend to go semantics on this
I'm really disappointed, even more after your 2221.

I haven't read the recent part of the game properly nor do I want to lynch CDB, so the amount of effort I intend to devote to reading him right now is limited. I guess I'm also kind of annoyed by you saying I don't need to trust you and then revealing that I essentially do but it has no influence on my read of you.

If your devoting effort on reading him is limited, what you're doing is certainly not the way you should be reacting when someone jumps in and points to something that might help sorting that read easily, even if it might not help at all (which is why I added 'it's something that me or my teammates can understand'. To check exactly that). Truth be told, while it is true that it's harder for anyone other than I or my teammate to understand, if you know what to look for, everyone can understand it.

I need to apologise for my snippy-ness earlier. I've re-read what you said and it makes sense. I've also read the reason for the townread now and I don't share the strength you have in it. I get what you mean about it potentially being something I wouldn't understand, but I still have the opinion that I do I guess.

-

Ok I'm finally caught up on everything (well sort of, I admittedly skimmed the last few pages). The only people I'd feel comfortable lynching right now are ActionDan and Aronis. There is at least one person not here though that I would consider making the second lynch.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ActionDan

Regarding Espeonage, ffery, I'd really appreciate your thoughts on why he's scum. I know I've already asked you and you probably have your reasons for withholding it, which is cool, but if you don't or it's not really bad if you do reveal your thoughts, I would really like to hear them.

Same goes for anyone else. I don't particularly like Espe's play here either, but a lot of the suspicion on him seems to be either out of frustration or for reasons that look really weak to me and I still look at his play and have a hard time seeing it from scum. I don't mean to act superior here (if I ever do give off that impression please tell me that I'm being an idiot) and this kind of play is something I think I have the tendency to wrongly townread, so I could so easily be wrong, but I would love it if people could tell me why I'm wrong.

DeasVail · Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:42 pm

A summary of why I think Espeonage is town, which is probably going to be the last I'll say on the matter:

-When he first enters the game, he's trying to get involved in the thread and do stuff despite clearly having not read most of the game. This isn't a very strong point at all, but still something I find indicative of town, as I feel scum are more likely to care about knowing what's been going on in the game (or at least having a grasp of the mechanics and whatnot) before making a huge string of posts.
-I thought him saying he was thinking of being baned in 663 was quite town. Scum saying this would worry that something like this would make them an easy target to be baned since they've already said they don't have a problem with it, and it's really in scum's best interests to have someone from the town baned if they can help it. I can also understand why town would want to be baned.
-His approach to Tammy seems very unlikely as coming from scum. I obviously completely disagree with him scumreading the slot, but I'm pretty sure it would have become obvious to Espe-scum at some point that the way he was approaching her was not going to improve her read on him and yet he continues to do it which doesn't make any sense from scum whatsoever, who I feel would be much more concerned with looking town.
-His claim in 976 is yet another thing that is super weird if he's scum. It attracts attention unnecessarily yet I can understand the thought process where he sees himself as never being NK'd anyway and wants to shake up the game. As scum it just limits his options, so really doesn't seem worth it from a scum perspective!
-There is no way that Espe can be scum and not know what detect does. If he is scum, then the whole confusion over getting a positive effect from guessing right has to be completely made up. And here's the thing, no one claimed a trace on him, so there was no need for him to even do it to begin with. It unnecessarily attracts attention and while I could see it as a pre-emptive strike against anyone who possibly would have traced him, I feel like the obvious move for scum would be to just not say anything at all?
-One of his interactions with Tammy he clearly misread something that Tammy said (1976) and then apparently never made any attempt to check that what he said was actually correct or based on valid assumptions. I had trouble seeing this from town, but I have even more trouble seeing this from scum, since I think they would be more self-conscious about their posts and realise what was going on.

The problem with all this is that leaves open the possibility that Espe is in fact scum who is doing all the lack of set-up understanding, and lack of awareness as an act, which I do see as possible. However, if we're going with regfan's initial theory that Espe would perhaps spend a token on scum because of his grand scum manipulation plans (I don't think I was part of this conversation for what it's worth), then I believe he would do it differently from how he is posting here. And so I have a townread.

I don't actually have anything concrete on ActionDan or Aronis that I feel makes them likely scum, but they are still the two who I feel most comfortable lynching, with ActionDan being slightly preferred over Aronis.

I don't know how active I'll be over the next couple of days, as I think I need a mini-break from mafia. We'll see what happens.

DeasVail · Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:52 am

Ffery, if you want to try and sync up more then I'm very happy to discuss things. I've just gotten busier lately and Ceph is not following the game as closely as he was. This is absolutely not his fault, as I have been urging my team to not feel like they need to read along. I've been having enough trouble keeping up with the game myself! To be completely honest though, I have felt a bit frustrated, partly because of my own reads diverging from yours (and those of others) in some ways, and partly also because often I've asked you questions that aren't answered. Whether this is due to them simply not being seen or a strategic withholding of thoughts, I'm not sure, and there are probably ways in which I have been uncooperative, but I would appreciate more engagement during the time that you/your team are here.

In post 2358, Oversoul wrote:Just two things because I was having a shitattack in our PT

What was the point of booning Vezok?
Why is UT getting away with so much scummy shit?

For me it's because all evidence points the fact that he doesn't care what people think of him.

In post 2400, singersigner wrote:I'd actually really like to needle Mastin's pride a bit. The more sure she is that she's right about me being scum, the scummier I think she is for boasting about how good she is. Don't take it personally, though. Scum don't really have a choice but to be confident with a town that's imploding because then something might not go their way.

I think she's town with an above-average-for-me amount of confidence for what it's worth.

In post 2403, mastin2 wrote:I don't need to give logic on TTH being town.
She is.
I'm saying she is.

How does the confidence in TTH being town compare to the confidence in me being scum. More confident, less confident, about the same?

In post 2404, Titus wrote:Maybe it's confbias but singer there really wante control there and Singer looks pissed because she's not in control here.

@Singer, If you intended to work with anyone you'd be reaching out, complaining less, and moving your vote off your vanity wagon.

I don't actually remember what your read of me is, but if you think I'm town, then you might want to reconsider your read on Singer because I'm probably one of the most passive people you could meet and

I'm

getting frustrated by how out-of-control of the game I feel right now. I also see nothing wrong with being on a vanity wagon if all the other wagons suck, and reaching out and not-complaining are hard things to do that I probably wouldn't be bothering with if this was a non-team mafia game. It's why being a vig is so appealing. You have control and little need to reach out and it's great! If you think I'm scum too then just assume I'm white-knighting a townie or something.

In post 2429, singersigner wrote:Oversoul/Marquis/TSO/Vezok/DV

With me!

I appreciate this post, and while I'm less closed to lynching TTH than I was before I was last caught up on the game, I still would prefer not to lynch her. I see that you've joined me on ActionDan now though which I think is really cool.

In post 2454, Bulbazak wrote:@GIF: Short version: The way she treated Empire's replace in does not come from scum. She examined it from a point of trying to figure out the game, which comes from town.

Ok, the thing is that I probably wouldn't be so concerned about her if it weren't for the way she treated Empire's replace-in. Her stances on the slot have all felt kind of wrong to me, with her wanting to lynch Zar, getting very hands-off when it came to Empire and not seeming to want him lynched, and then when singer replaced in BAM! suddenly the slot is lynchable again! It seems to me a lot like scum changing their read based on how lynchable the person representing it is (singer and zar being a lot more lynchable than Empire imo) rather than a natural progression of read from town. I know you're saying you have reason beyond this to consider her town, but I wouldn't be opposed to you convincing me I'm wrong here.

In post 2465, Bulbazak wrote:I really liked his early game, and whenever he posts, I still get the same sort of warm fuzzies. I just have a hard time seeing that sort of thought process coming from scum. His activity is atrocious, but it always is, and that's not a reason to scumread him.

This is weird coming from you considering your criticism of me for something similar.

In post 2489, TellTaleHeart wrote:More details on this and updates:
I said it was a terrible lynch pool because it fits the profile for who scum would put in their lynchpool. There's two definite lurkers in there that's a pretty safe bet to push on: ActionDan and Aronis. They've both already demonstrated that they probably won't make much of an effort to defend themselves and no one can really justify a town read on either of them, barring role related information. GiF arguably fits into the "lurker" category too, but only in the sense that he's fairly low profile, not really making waves so far (not necessarily for lack of trying), and he's a question mark on a few other people's lists. ffery comes to mind as one of those people. This is also a pretty safe push. I refer to these as "safe pushes" simply because reasons for voting them aren't really there. Even with scum lurkers, those reasons usually exist and can be articulated, but DV hasn't really made an attempt to convincingly do so. Bulbazak, of course, has to make an appearance since DV was pushing him earlier. Even though the vote on ActionDan hasn't ever progressed past the "vanity" stage, the vote stays there even though a vote on Bulbazak (which is much more substantiated and much less neglected) would have the same impact on the overall vote count. So why is the vote on ActionDan?

tl;dr: On the surface, this lynch pool looks like a plausible team but it doesn't really stand up to scrutiny and the vote placement doesn't match real estate allocation in the DV's posts.

My lynch pool isn't what I think the team is, and I've found that my scumhunting has much improved since I've stopped pretending to have more reasons than I actually do for people who I think are scum.

In post 2494, singersigner wrote:In any case, assuming all of the PRs also have to figure out signs before actioning

This isn't the best assumption to make fwiw.

-

This is a note to myself that I haven't finished reading the last page.

I wish I could say more about why I'm voting for ActionDan, but what it comes down to is that he's one of those people that I'd vig as a town vig, or shoot as an SK if I were aiming for mafia. This isn't to say that I'm right, but for every other player I've thought of a decent reason why I don't want to lynch them (still not sure if I have for Aronis or not), and this is exactly what I did in the games where I could shoot people, with no pressure to actually try and say why my read is the way it is. I feel uncomfortable saying this because I have what I see as justified low confidence in my abilities, and less confidence in my ability to scumread than townread, but I would really be quite happy if people joined me on ActionDan, especially since I really don't like the current leading wagons.

DeasVail · Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:02 am

In post 2601, TellTaleHeart wrote:DV, it would be great if you could share a few details of that Marquis read now. TIA

Why are you asking me?

I've also explained my Marquis read already.

And why is ActionDan in the townish section of your reads?

In post 2610, Marquis wrote:i really feel like i should want to make a case but 1) lazy 2) when i made cases as scum in doa they were all right and so maybe that means if i make a case here it'll just add to the downward spiral of my read accuracy with how much more wrong i'm growing to feel about this and

In post 2611, Marquis wrote:how do you make a case when you don't even know if you believe in it anymore

how do you play when you have literally have no experience you can remember of being both town AND right about something

how do you find the time to get away from mafia and just hope everything will be okay again when you get back

Hey dude. I used to stress so much about being wrong in mafia. I'd oscillate between under-confidence that would completely debilitate the possibility of me having any impact on the game, and over-confidence that I wouldn't be able to maintain (I think this still happens to me tbh). When I start feeling this, I try to tell myself that it's a game that's meant to be fun and if I'm hilariously wrong then it will be more amusing than anything else! Not sure if this will be any help but it's how I try to think about things at least.

Oh, and you completely had me pegged in Smalltown, and were in fact the only one to get close to lynching me! That's got to count for something!

As for your out-of-mafia stuff, I just hope that gets better.

--

Mastin, please answer my question to you.

Gamma, I actually think your points sound decent, but I still think she's town for other reasons. It might be a while before I make a full defence of her, but I like regfan's continued input on the game despite having the excuse of Empire replacing out to stop following it. And reading her play recently has given me the impression of town, along with her decision to vote for ActionDan at the time that she did. Ffery-team's townread is also a factor for me, but I will re-read her at some point.

DeasVail · Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:45 pm

I'll take a look at everything sometime today. Not sure when.

DeasVail · Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:37 am

Really sad to see Marquis go, and unfortunately I don't have the time I would have liked to read over this game, but I've "skimmed" (meaning glanced at various posts) over the last few pages, and read AD's posts in full, and I'm pretty sure I still support running AD up to a claim. I'm less sure of him being scum than I was before, but he's still a better option than singer and Espe in my opinion!

DeasVail · Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:38 am

Ok, I've read up and really I just want a lynch. I still want to vote for AD because I can't think of anyone better to vote for and I don't want to be scrabbling around trying to find a lynch and have it end up being I'd much rather not lynch such as Singer/Espe. I also still don't really see much that's town about him, though I guess my hurried catch-up could have something to do with that and I'll look again. In any case, I wouldn't mind if, you know, we could get that wagon fired up again. I'm really sorry about my lack of involvement lately and I think I'll sort the reads out that I've been putting off after the first lynch (though at the rate things are going it may very well be before).

Ffery, if I could have Nacho's read progression on AD that would be pretty cool, but I understand you guys are busy and so please make this low priority if anything at all.

DeasVail · Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:58 am

In post 3051, mastin2 wrote:Fair warning, DV was hydraing with Cephrir, so that muddies the waters a bit...but conveniently enough, Ceph is DV's teammate and backing up DV so they effectively have the same hydra this game!

If a post is really emotional or show-offy then it's probably me.

Also I had a townread on TSO and probably still would, but that's pretty standard I guess!

DeasVail · Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:11 pm

I'm at page 127, but have other things I need to do, so I'm going to have to stop there. I'm really sorry about doing this.

DeasVail · Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:17 pm

Oh and this.

In post 3010, Titus wrote:Why are you asking FFery to do something and then saying it doesn't matter if she does it?

It does matter, but not so much that I'm going to demand Nacho doesn't do other things he wants to do just so that he can talk to me about a mafia game.

Gamma, I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but why did you think TSO was a scum lynch?

DeasVail · Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:03 am

I will be back into this game before 24 hours is up. My impression of Titus was town, but most of my reads are probably a bit outdated, so I will review the most important ones (and potentially more than that) tomorrow.

DeasVail · Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:22 am

Ok, this is where I lay out my thoughts on who I don't want to lynch, who I do want to lynch, and who I may want to lynch. I am again really sorry about my lack of being involved in the game lately, and I'm going to do my best to get back on top of things again. There are probably about 20 pages all in all that I haven't read. I hope to read get around to reading them eventually but I don't know if it will happen, and I don't have the time to make it happen now.

First Titus. There's no way I'm going to review her ISO because there are way too many posts for that, but my impression early on was that she was town. I remember there being something after my failed attempt at a read wall that solidified my townread really heavily, but I forget what it was and I'm not going to go searching for it now. I may later, but I trust that it was something important and the posts of hers that I've read since have matched my impression of town-Titus, which I can't really explain as anything more than my own ~mystical feelings~. Well maybe if I really tried I could (something I think I've mentioned before was her not being as bull-headed as I've come to expect from her as scum), and I also like what I've seen of her attempted interactions with ika on the last page. If someone wants my vote on that wagon, then they can present a reasonably concise case for me (I will make sure I pay close attention to any posts from this one on) and I will definitely try to consider it, but the chance of me joining with a vote on Titus even with a case that's nicely wrapped up with a ribbon on top is pretty low.

Other people that I'm not going to vote for today unless weird and wonderful things happen:

Cheetory6, Espeonage, Formerfish, Mastin2, Oversoul, Singersigner, Vezokpiraka

People I would want to lynch but there are things stopping me from wanting to lynch them right now:

Bulbazak, Shadoweh, TTH

People I want to look at:

ActionDan, Aronis, CDB, Gammagooey, GiF, Untrod Tripod

So here we go!

(Honestly guys, making this post is getting me to realise exactly how much I'm struggling to keep up with this game. I really don't want to replace out and I'm going to do my best to stay involved, but my engagement is probably not going to be very good. I'm really sorry about all this)

-

ActionDan: I still don't really see the town, and I don't like the way he jumped onto the Espe train. His reaction to the pressure was ok I guess, but I've looked over it a few times now and I'm not seeing what everyone else was seeing?

Aronis: I've actually stopped thinking Aronis is scum. I don't have anything particularly town about him, but that's just where my gut's going right now.

CDB: I was planning to look over his ISO but I'm just not feeling up to it at all right now (this is completely my fault, sorry everyone). What I remember is not thinking he was as town as everyone else (including Ceph) seemed to. The only questionable thing I remember was how he commented on my self-consciousness in relation to Empire's read, since he was right about me being self-conscious but his examples seemed pretty irrelevant. Though I don't even know if this is scummy. I wouldn't feel comfortable lynching him just because I haven't read his posts properly and there could be something really town that I'm missing because of it, and this is no one's fault but my own, so sorry again.

Gammagooey: I used to townread him, then I became concerned about him sharing my opinion on the Espe wagon being bad and not doing anything about it, but then he did something about it which eased my concerns, but now I've noticed he put me into his pile of would-lynch, which seems kind of suspect since he townread me when I was active and widely townread and basically unlynchable, but now that I have much reduced activity and have attracted scumreads I'm someone he's willing to lynch apparently! The reason why this bothers me is that he uses my lynch pool as a reason for it, but I made it pretty clear that this didn't correlate exactly with my actual thoughts on who the scum were, nor do I think I'm particularly prone to scumreading lurkers as scum, nor would that be expected of me imo? The reason why I think it may come from scum is that my impression over the years has been that scum often talk about who is lynchable and who's not, and will tend to base their reads around that. During Minor Day I'm pretty sure I was someone who scum would never have expected to be able to lynch, but now I think that's changed a whole lot. This is just one thing though, and I'd obviously like to have a firmer grip on Gamma's ISO before following through with this, so I really just don't know.

GiF: I've put him to look at, but I've decided I'm not going to now because I remember reading him as town at about the same time that Ffery started.

UT: Same with UT. Probably goes a bit closer to the pile of people I think are actual possible scum with Bulba, Shadow and TTH, but for sort of different reasons I guess?

I know I've made way more apologies in this post than anyone wants to hear, and I really need to get my act together and play this game properly. I'm incredibly stressed out right now and this is just adding to it, so I'm probably going to take a more laid back approach for the next few days, and possibly longer. I don't want to say this again, but I really am sorry.

DeasVail · Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:56 am

I was hit by surprise family drama today, so things have been further delayed, but I'm going to hopefully be a bit better off than I was last night. And sorry for being all mopey. I'm not feeling so stressed now.

In post 3623, ChannelDelibird wrote:DV - I think you're looking at my comments about you being self-conscious as if they were meant to be an examination of your alignment. They were meant as a comment on how (whoever it was I was talking to at the time) was reading you, and how I thought their comments looked weird. They were saying that you weren't self-conscious at all and that was my way of saying that I couldn't understand why they had come to that conclusion, which made me think they might not be reading you honestly. Can't remember which person this is referring to right now but I'll revisit it later.

It was Empire, and it's not something I actually care about a whole lot. Just something I remembered that seemed odd since the points with which you were arguing against his claim didn't make much sense. I don't think it'd really make a difference if it was an examination of my alignment, and tonight I actually am not sure why I cared at all about it before because I don't find myself caring about it all right now.

In post 3635, mastin2 wrote:(because DV's too lovable to die in real life)

This was nice of you to say. I appreciate it.

In post 3665, singersigner wrote:lol my team probably hates me, I'm making all sorts of decisions without asking them how they feel loool

I've been doing this all game, don't worry about it.

If they're actually mad at you, they'd probably let you know!

--

I don't like any of the wagons, imagine that!

Vote: Gammagooey

I guess.

DeasVail · Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:59 am

If you want a wagon that hasn't been very well thought through but comes from a place somewhere among the two ventricles and two atria of my not so rapidly beating heart, then join me!

DeasVail · Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:00 am

I don't even know whether I want people to join me or not but caring way too much about this game really was overrated!

DeasVail · Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:22 am

I'm sorry singer, but I don't want to lynch any of the wagons and I've realised I need to take a step back from the high level of stress I was feeling over not having a super strong grip on the game. If this manifests itself as an annoyingly and potentially useless protest vote, then so be it.

With Titus, the thoughts expressed by people townreading her resonate with my own thoughts where those that scumread her don't, and I feel that the whole approach she's taken to the game feels new for her in a way that would be more likely from town (I don't know about others, but my attitude to team mafia has been a fair bit different from my attitude to other games) than scum (I think it would be much simpler to just emulate town meta here). One of these things is the whole being cooperative thing, where my impression of her as scum is that she enjoys talking nonsense and not being listened to or collaborated with, but rather being ignored and skating by that way. My experiences with Titus-town have been strange as well, but a different kind if that makes any sense. I also remember thinking she was solidly town for something at one point, but I haven't been able to find it nor have I had the time to go searching through her ISO.

I think you're town and I don't want to lynch you. I like regfan still being involved despite empire saying he probably wouldn't be. Your posting feels natural to me and I'm so put off by people wanting to lynch you but not Empire that it's factoring into my reasons for not lynching you even if it doesn't make complete sense.

I still think Espeonage is town and I don't want to lynch him. I feel like I've gone on and on about my reasoning for this, but I saw a quote where he was talking about outing Cheetory's sign so you can add that to the list of town things.

CDB is probably the weakest link among wagons I don't want to lynch, since I worry about how pro-town his reaction has been (I mean this in as good a way as I possibly can), but with that said I do like his latest posts and while he's probably the one whose posts I've skipped the most (I'm terrible), I'm going with town tonight.

DeasVail · Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:10 pm

VOTE: ACTIONDAN

It's double vanity!

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:24 am

In post 3789, mastin2 wrote:Again with the backwards reads.

Let me know if you ever want to discuss why our reads differ.

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:26 am

And my desire to lynch someone other than CDB has increased!

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:20 pm

Vote: Espeonage

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:06 pm

I do! I can't promise that I'm super up-to-date with the game because I'm not, but I'd love to talk.

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:15 pm

ActionDan, Bulbazak, Gamma, Shadow, TTH

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:17 pm

Aronis maybe too, but that's more from PoE than anything in particular about him so I wouldn't say I think he's scum.

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:22 pm

In post 4025, fferyllt wrote:What's your list of players you feel absolutely sure won't flip scum?

There is no such list and Nacho should know this.

The kind of list you're probably looking for though is Cheetory, Espeonage, Formerfish, Mastin, Oversoul, Vezok

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:42 pm

In post 4029, Cheetory6 wrote:
DeasVail wrote:Espeonage, Formerfish
But.
No.
:c

Both are kind of super town. :/

PEdit: Ffery/Nacho, I don't have the grip on the game right now to have a confident read here and I essentially don't have a case that's not OMGUS-ish, but what did catch my eye was the way his read on me changed. My position here has been quite interesting in that I've gone from super-townread to pretty common scumread all in the space of one 'day'. People like you and Mastin obviously have reasons for it, but my slide down Gamma's reads list despite his contribution to the townread-consensus on me and being encouraged by my suspicion of Bulba has me suspicious that it's a result of the decline in my standing rather than the other way around. My plan is definitely to put more thought into this read before it actually matters though.

And there's no need for Nacho to apologise. I have things to do myself and I have the time for this to take a bit longer.

Mastin, I think your reads are backwards too, but I don't think you're scum for it. I get that you think I'm scum for other reasons and that's whatever I guess, but I'd rather you didn't have this cycle of assuming I'm scum because of my reads while simultaneously assuming my reads are wrong because I'm scum. Actually, I'm going to be real here. Your attitude to me honestly kind of sucks. I'm not scum and I'm pretty sure you're not either. I think you're really cool and I appreciated it when you separated your thoughts on me in-game from out-of-game, but I'd much rather not have to ignore your posts.

Ffery, I've talked so much about Espe and have attempted to derail his wagon enough times that I'm fed up with it and can't be bothered anymore. No one was listening to me about him when I was a townread and certainly no one is going to listen to me about him now. Lynching him is so much better than lynching no one for that reason. I'll get to the other stuff after I can finally post this.

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:01 pm

In post 4041, fferyllt wrote:Nacho knows you've talked about the Marquis read a whole whole lot but could you talk about it again? Nacho is afraid that he could/would fake some of the self-conscious stuff he's put in thread (stuff that on the face of it Nacho found pretty town like "how do you even scumhunt?"). he's not really sure anymore if the !!! gimmick approach to the game was town-motivated or scum-motivated, and while nacho thinks he did a bunch of stuff that was good in that it feel town, he doesn't remember any of his scum/town pushes being better than marginally okay.

First, I think pushes not being better than marginally okay is pretty alignment-irrelevant. I think scum can make pushes that make you swoon and I think town can make horrible pushes that don't make any sense, because hey, pretty sure that's what I've been doing here!

I'm not going in-depth on this read right now, but the !!! gimmick is a small part of my townread all in all. I remember lots of his posts making a lot of sense as town on me and I think his behaviour around the booning was something in particular I thought was town. There are lots of things that struck me as town over the course of the game and I don't remember most of them, but his approach to me made a lot of sense after our last game together, and for a similar reason his crisis makes so much more sense as town than as scum. If I remember correctly he was starting to get a couple of scumreads, so could have suffered a decline of confidence as scum that caused his decision to replace out, but I think he has a much higher opinion than he should about my play, and even though I was a serial killer in our last game together, my reads were really quite good with my shooting two of the scum and having scumread the other before they were caught by a town PR, so being so hard townread by me, the so-called paragon would probably have been a huge boost to his confidence if he were scum here. I also think it's a lot easier to not be bothered by things like not keeping up with the game as scum, and even though I wasn't experiencing what he was at the time, I've pretty much gone through the exact same thing this last week or so, and I think the emotions that result from it are different as town and as scum and I think it'd be pretty phenomenal for him to have faked that.

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:09 pm

In post 4054, fferyllt wrote:He called you town beyond town in the early game when you were posting a lot. After you went inactive, he really didn't have any significant interactions with you for about 10 days. In that time he formed a pretty strong scumread on singer, and formed strong townreads elsewhere. he helped lynch someone. It doesn't seem unreasonable at all for his read on you to degenerate like that over a long period of time and a lot of game events. why do you feel like his read shouldn't have degerated? Do you think he specifically should have found reasons in your recent posts to townread you even though nacho hasn't?

I wouldn't have expected him to find reasons to townread me, but to call someone town beyond town takes something pretty strong imo and unless one's going to argue that my decline in activity is alignment-relevant, it seems odd that his opinion of me would have become so vapid.

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:13 pm

I don't like relating everything to myself, but if I think someone's obviously town early-game and then they become less involved with the game-state, I won't be ok with lynching them unless I have new reason to actually think my read was wrong. This is what I expect has happened with you, but Gamma's post gave the opposite impression which is why I think it may be reactive to the gamestate.

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:21 pm

In post 4061, fferyllt wrote:
In post 4057, DeasVail wrote:
In post 4054, fferyllt wrote:He called you town beyond town in the early game when you were posting a lot. After you went inactive, he really didn't have any significant interactions with you for about 10 days. In that time he formed a pretty strong scumread on singer, and formed strong townreads elsewhere. he helped lynch someone. It doesn't seem unreasonable at all for his read on you to degenerate like that over a long period of time and a lot of game events. why do you feel like his read shouldn't have degerated? Do you think he specifically should have found reasons in your recent posts to townread you even though nacho hasn't?

I wouldn't have expected him to find reasons to townread me, but to call someone town beyond town takes something pretty strong imo and unless one's going to argue that my decline in activity is alignment-relevant, it seems odd that his opinion of me would have become so vapid.

gamma's new reason for finding you scum now was your scumlist consisting of Bulba and a pile of lurkers.

I had forgotten about that and I will be going over this read again.

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:24 pm

Haha, thanks for your contribution Mastin.

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:25 pm

And I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I'm entirely serious. No post has made me smile that much in a while.

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:26 pm

(And yes, I will charm everyone into townreading me, watch it happen)

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:31 pm

In post 4067, fferyllt wrote:the sudden townread on Espeonage

?

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:31 pm

If this is why you think I'm scum then that would explain a lot!

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:38 pm

The secret is that everyone's reads are backwards! Ffery's the scum!!!!!!!!

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:52 pm

Singer I dislike the Espe wagon as much as you do but I think it's the pro-town thing to do.

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:53 pm

In post 4090, Untrod Tripod wrote:pretty much yeah

I won't be sad that you're gone

What reason do you have for this kind of hostility?

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:55 pm

Ok, fair enough.

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:56 pm

Mastin! We can vote for Espe together!

DeasVail · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:59 pm

And Ffery, apologies for my own frustrations with you this game. It was a tough position you found yourself in this game and I admire the amount of effort you and your team put in. Even though our relationship ended up being hilariously dysfunctional (as probably should be expected), it was nice getting a townread from you for once!

DeasVail · Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:12 pm

My life's really busy right now and I'm going to sort this out when I have the time and energy to do so. If you don't like this, then fine, but I can't put the thought into this that I'd like to right now. I will get back involved with this game when I have some time free, but that's not right now. I am sorry that my circumstances have become such that this is the case.

DeasVail · Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:53 am

I found Mastin kind of frustrating too, but I quite strongly think she's town.

DeasVail · Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:00 pm

I'm going to start getting back into this tonight, and hopefully by the end of the weekend I'll be somewhat back involved in this game. I don't think my engagement is ever going to be quite as it was at the beginning of the game, but it should be an improvement over what it is now!

DeasVail · Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:37 pm

I'm going to take this read by read, as that's really the only way I can see myself getting back into this game with any sort of efficiency.

ActionDan

First up, we have the guy that's been my pet scumread for quite a while now. I'm excited! Fingers, toes and nose all crossed hoping that I don't see anything that makes me townread him because I really doubt I'm going to have enough scumreads by the time this is done! When I was actually keeping up with the game he was one of those part PoE, part just ~feeling it~ reads, which probably sounds really bad and like it would never be on scum, and hey, maybe that's true, but I'm just going to run with it. Little things I don't like are the quick defence of Shadoweh in 2188 based on town tokens, the post on Espeonage in 2580 and 2783 just feels off. And from later, I don't like the continued push of CDB after his claim. Apart from that I'm kind of indifferent to his ISO and don't have any great reason to think him scum, but I don't have any good reason to think him town and that's probably going to end up counting for a lot. The main thing making me doubt my read is Shadow's townread, but I don't know whether I think Shadow is town or scum at this stage so maybe that will affect things!

DeasVail · Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:27 pm

In post 4503, Shadoweh wrote:Can't stay will literally be mauled by girl

Sounds like fun times?

DeasVail · Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:42 pm

Aronis

This read is much like AD in that it's pretty PoE-ish, but my guess is actually not so much scum when I compare him to AD. Probably because I don't feel like there's any effort whatsoever from Aronis to look good. Not ruling it out because it could just be somewhat apathetic scum, but less likely to be scum than AD imo!

-

Bulbazak

Read is somewhat leftover from yesterday but has died down a bit, part of this being due to the thing going on with him and Shadoweh, but I don't know how much stock to take in this considering once again my questionable read on Shadow. AD-Bulba-Shadow connections make me kind of suspect but I'm not at all confident in calling that. Still haven't decided what I want to do with him, but hopefully I will have by major day.

-

CDB I don't want to touch right now.

Cheetory, Espe and Former can all be town.

I'll look at Gamma in full tomorrow.

-

If there's anything really important that someone said then you should probably tell me. I've decided I'm going to just have to keep up with the game from this point and look back at whatever interests me. Otherwise I'm never going to post and while I should have posted enough by now for it to be obvious I'm town people seem to forget if I go a couple of days without towning it up so fine I guess I can accommodate your needs. I guess there's also that thing where I help the town cause and all that, so maybe that'll be a thing too!

DeasVail · Sun May 03, 2015 1:02 am

I've read up and there's not much I want to say except people want to lynch me, woooo, and I'm pretty ok with a boon of CDB.

Boon: CDB

--

More read stuff.

I've read through Gamma quickly and have pretty much lost the will I had earlier to lynch him. Still possible scum in my mind, but at least a level or two above what he was before.

Pretty sure Mastin is town, and same with Oversoul.

Ok I think I'm wrong on Shadoweh too. That's fun!

Singer is someone I don't want to lynch soon, so what I think of her alignment right now isn't incredibly important. It's probably town, but I remember being concerned about her posting at the end of the first major day.

Now TTH is someone I may still think is scum. I haven't been able to (and won't be able to) have a thorough check of this, but does it actually say anywhere that the unlockable VT knows they're the unlockable VT? Or is there some other way that TTH would not be clearly town? I ask because I'm suspicious about there only being one kill last night. Scum probably would have seen me as a high priority night kill during the first minor night, so I would consider it reasonably likely that they would prep detects on me. Obviously however, I would have been a much lower priority nightkill during the major night to the point where scum may even have considered it beneficial to not kill me. There are other potential explanations for there only being one successful unmake, and for that reason plus me having become public enemy number 3 or so, I don't expect anything to be done about this now, but I worry about TTH.

Titus I still think is town.

UT is actually entering my scumlist for reasons in addition to what others have expressed. My reasons for not wanting to lynch him have likely been disproven though I'm not completely sure, so I'm happy to have this read on hold until the next cycle thing.

Vezok is town pretty sure.

DeasVail · Mon May 04, 2015 12:44 am

To everyone complaining about me in some form or another: I feel just as crappy and probably more crappy than you do about my lack of participation. It sucks and I feel suitably terrible about not being as able to keep up properly with this as I did at the start. If you're going to lynch me then that's ok, but that doesn't mean that it's anything more than that, because frankly I've posted way more than enough for people to read me and so if you read me wrong then that's not my problem. I am going to keep up with this game where I can, but I'm not going to be able to devote very much time to a mafia game that just gets longer and longer considering everything else going on in my life right now.

I'm sorry for being bitter and angry and it's probably a product of my own insecurities more than anything wrong with any of you, but thinking I'm scum is a bad thing and I'd like it to stop.

DeasVail · Thu May 07, 2015 11:59 am

Right now will be for reading the remainder of the thread. The weekend will be for extra stuff.

In post 4667, Cheetory6 wrote:
DV wrote:Ok I think I'm wrong on Shadoweh too. That's fun!
Why.

DV wrote:I've read up and there's not much I want to say except people want to lynch me, woooo, and I'm pretty ok with a boon of CDB.
Why are you okay with a boon on CDB if in your last post you said that "you weren't going to touch him right now" in terms of your read on him? How can you be casually okay with booning someone you have no read on?

hito wrote:Duplicate. One member of Annihilation may use the same Active ability twice each Major Night. This ability is Locked, and cannot be used until the Lock is removed.
If scum has this, then the unlockable VT would likely have to have this as well. Otherwise, scumTTH would have to guess that there would be something that would conftown her on minorD2, would have to have gotten lucky that we didn't choose to unlock the ability and get CC-ed and then guess that the ability would be hidden to the VT who would get unlocked.
I find it hard to believe all of that would just prettily fall into the hands of scum.

I actually forget why I thought Shadoweh was town, but I'm sure there was a decent reason for it. If you're actually interested then I'll re-ISO her again over the weekend and find it, but if you're just asking me because you think I'm scum and you've got some grand idea of ~pressuring the scummy scum scumz~ or something then I'd kind of rather not if no one's really interested in lynching Shadow anyway!

By not touching CDB I mean not lynching him. I don't think it's necessary to state a read on someone I'm not interested in lynching nor is anyone else iirc. And I was obviously ok with booning him.

In post 4668, Oversoul wrote:DV you're being a little ego centric. But TTH thinking you're a high priority kill makes sense for her detect if she is a watcher.

You're probably right about this, and it's not a top concern of mine for now. But I hate the idea of scum being widely considered confirmed town for flawed reasoning, and it was the lack of two kills that made it a concern of mine (I have extra role-related reasoning for my concern, but it doesn't strengthen my potential suspicion of TTH enough to be worth discussing).

In post 4669, Titus wrote:Why would TTH think DV is a high priority kill given the amount of suspicion DV is under?

When she detected me I was supertown.

In post 4672, singersigner wrote:"More read stuff." There's not a whole lot of commitment to your reads. >_>

Why isn't my alignment important right now? What concerned you about my posting at the end of Major Day 1?
Cheetory already asked this but what are you wrong about with regards to Shadoweh?
Are you speculating on TTH's alignment based on the fact that you're not dead?
Why do you think Titus is town? Could you find time to comment on my recent posts about her when you're more caught up?

1. Choosing my wording to pick on is a bit strange considering that there are so many better things to pick on in my post!
2. Your alignment isn't important right now because I don't want to lynch you. I was concerned about how you posted yet didn't vote for Espeonage.
3. I think I was wrong about thinking she was scum.
4. No, I'm speculating based on the fact that there is only one person dead and not two. I have no doubt that scum would consider keeping me alive even if they had originally planned to kill me.
5. I could, and what was once a really strong townread has faded a fair bit with Titus considering what I've skimmed of her latest posts. It'll be one of the things I focus on this weekend.

In post 4704, TellTaleHeart wrote:You are a high priority kill or you are not? You just said both. You're also putting a lot more assumptions into your theory for keeping me in the lynch pool than you're suggesting.

I don't get why what I'm saying is so hard to understand. I was a high-priority kill during minor night 1. I wasn't any time after that.

In post 4704, TellTaleHeart wrote:Yes, simple and basic mathematics.
The sign mechanic gives a 1/3 chance of guessing the sign correctly and given 3 unmakes, calculating the expected number of kills in any given night yield a value of... one.

Now of course there are things like the detect mechanism and protective (or other killstopping) roles that influence the probabilities slightly but the rough estimate should be pretty close to the actual and it was likely by hito's design.

If all the scum can detect, then they're able to guarantee two successful unmakes (they could each detect a player twice and have their sign narrowed down to one possibility), and considering the two lynches I think the game would be unbalanced if they didn't have this option. I have no idea what more they could have to help them out.

In post 4705, TellTaleHeart wrote:Also DV, make no mistake.

I'm getting you lynched today.

Ok!

In post 4709, Titus wrote:@DV, Speculating about yourself being a nightkill is worthless. Provide something actually useful. I was townreading you but my patience has worn incredibly thin with the time you're spending blathering about theory, without any sort of practical conclusion to be drawn their from. It's empty posting. You've went this entire time without even commenting on the boon which is a waste.

Titus. Please stop. The reasons you give for losing your townread of me don't make any sense considering your experience with me and remind of Teen Wolf where you were scumreading me for not having my 'town pizzazz'. Anyone that plays with me-scum knows that it's scum that has the pizzazz and town that totally doesn't, so should I be as reminded of Teen Wolf as I'm being right now? And I did comment on the boon what?

In post 4727, vezokpiraka wrote:Then replace out. Seriously. I don't want people to lynch a spot just cause he lurks. That is not fun for any team that player is on.

This is team mafia and I want all slots at their bests.

This game being so long is the main reason I haven't replaced out and I think I'm going to be able to be reasonably involved in the game, just not at the level that people would most like. I understand that you want all slots at their best and I wish that too, but I don't think that's very possible for my slot at the moment. There's no reason for me to get lynched for lurking considering that I was engaged with the game for a substantial period of time and should be quite readable from that!

In post 4728, Cheetory6 wrote:hi dv the reason why you look so bad is because you keep saying sorry instead of just playing the game, which admittedly probably isn't scumtastic, but i mean im getting a little impatient with how much you're pulling that card and it's starting to look more like a schtick than an actual thing.
speaking of which, you just said sorry instead of answering my questions and other people's questions to you.
zzzzz.

That's how it is Cheetory.

--

Would prefer not to lynch UT today!

In post 4756, Cheetory6 wrote:VOTE: DV
Shall we dance?

Sorry, I'm not great at dancing.

In post 4773, Cheetory6 wrote:I think DV's apologetic "I am sorry I am not here pls forgive me"ness every single post he makes is a schtick and I'm arguably more tired of it than I am UT's dickishness.

If I could do something other than this as scum, do you think I would, or not?

In post 4776, Cheetory6 wrote:Pretty sure ffery was saying we should lynch DV btw.

To be fair, her scumread on me was based on my townreading Espe being sudden which it wasn't at all, so unless you think that my townreading of Espe was sudden, please don't sheep that.

And Titus, Ffery obviously didn't have me as town.

In post 4800, singersigner wrote:I haven't pushed DV for jack shit. I'm voting for pressure.

What are you expecting to result from this pressure?

In post 4808, ActionDan wrote:I'm becoming more partial to DV's lynch

Why?

In post 4882, Oversoul wrote:I don't get the Titus hate.

I have experience with her saying the complete nonsensical as scum, so I'm now really concerned about her alignment, but this happens to some degree when she's town too. She is one of my top priorities for re-reading since I considered her a strong townread for most of the game.

--

And just as a general thing, I get that people have problems with me apologising and not doing more than that. That's fair enough. But the fact is that if my life is busy to the point where I don't have the time to be actively caught up and reading the game, I'm going to apologise about it and you can call me scum, lazy, whatever, but you're going to be wrong about the scum part and while the lazy part probably would have been true a week or two ago, the last ~week I've been actually incapable of spending more time than I have on this game, so yes, I'm sorry about it and I'm not going to not say so because you don't like it when I'm over-apologetic. Right now, at this point in time, I'm pretty damn motivated to get back into this. I will do it when I can.

DeasVail · Thu May 07, 2015 12:16 pm

I don't remember being very low-impact or lurky until after minor night one, but I may be wrong. In any case, I'm not overly concerned about you right now. It was just a thought I had.

DeasVail · Sat May 09, 2015 9:36 pm

Ok guys, here's the deal. I'm going to spend this evening really really trying to get back on top of the game. If I feel good about where I'm at after tonight, then I'll stay, but if I don't like my chances of getting back to my previous engagement, then I'll begin looking for a replacement, as it's not fair on you or my team or anyone who'd like to have the opportunity that I have for me to stay. I'm not sure how willing I am to subject one of my team to having to catch up on a 200-page game, so it may be someone else, I don't know yet. But my hopelessness ends tonight, one way or another.

DeasVail · Sat May 09, 2015 10:35 pm

TIME TO KILL THE SCUM!

You're probably all incredibly sick of the list of townreads I feel the need to talk about in every second post I make, but I sort of need to do it to give me the confidence that "Hey! I already have reads on X number of people!". So here goes.

I don't know for sure that ChannelDelibird is town, but he can be a tentative super townread given that I booned him (I did actually have reasons for that though!) and I'll review that read when it matters. Maybe this is me just getting off to a lazy start, but I'm just going to go with it.

Espeonage is town. I've gone on and on about why I think Espeonage is town. The reasons I've stated before still hold and there are probably more than that given the fact that I've read more of his posts while retaining my strong townread. Don't lynch him please! I've said before and I'll say again that his play makes no sense coming from scum and would have to be a super impressive masterminded tactic where he relies on me thinking this to be coming from scum.

I haven't read much to impress from Formerfish, but Marquis was SUPERTOWN. The more I think about it the more confident I become in his alignment. I've gone on and on about my reasoning for this too. People seem to want to lynch Formerfish which I think is ridiculous because just like with me the whole "he hasn't been very inactive for the last 100 pages despite being active for the 100 before that -> SCUMMMMM" seems to be a thing and it's stupid. But hey, if it takes lynching me to realise that then fine, I don't care a whole lot. TTH has promised that she's going to get me lynched today and she's apparently confirmed town so she wouldn't break a promise surely! But if you lynch me/my slot and

then

you lynch Formerfish, that will make me angry.

Mastin2 I can't see as anything other than town. Thankfully this is a pretty widespread opinion so awesome and I don't even need to explain the read! Score!

Oversoul = Tammy = TOWNTOWNTOWN etc.

Vezok is really town too and most people seem to recognise that so cool!

:O And that's it! My super town list has shrunken. I can't be as lazy anymore!

So all of the above didn't really take much effort. If all I had to do was post that over and over again (which I've sort of been doing), then I wouldn't need to replace out! But now comes the hard stuff.

As promised, I will go through my read of Titus. I will sort of ISO her but I'm so not reading all of her posts.

And here it comes. I've realised that the main reason I haven't replaced out yet is the guilt I would feel replacing out, and this game is not something I want to play anymore, especially with my life only going to get busier over the next month. And I've decided that this all means that I should replace out if possible. I will continue my thoughts on the players, but they will be very low effort and based on previous thoughts. I'm sorry to everyone for not doing this earlier and allowing someone that could have contributed a lot more than I have to be playing for the last 100 or so pages. I seriously think each and every one of you is a fantastic person, and you were all part of what made this game really fun for me at the start, and it's my own RL situation that has caused my disengagement and not any of you. You're all great <3

So take-home messages that you maybe should or maybe shouldn't listen to! How fun!

I've struggled with my read on ActionDan throughout the game because I'm trying to act confident about my scumread yet someone who I'd expect to read him correctly (Shadoweh) has been strongly townreading him, so it's like internal conflict AHHHHH. I previously made it ok by thinking Shadow was scum too, but I'm not so sure anymore. I forget exactly why my read on her changed but it was probably gut-based. I did read her ISO quickly, but I probably came across as doing more than I actually was, which already wasn't that much sooo, sorry for that.

Aronis was a slight townread for no real reason except guessing. I wouldn't take that read as anything more than it is.

Bulbazazk I think is scum but really I don't know. I still think his weird posts to me early on seemed over-the-top manipulative so I'd recommend looking at that, but again, my read on him is not very up to date. Is you decide my points are not valid they probably aren't! I did read the thing about Shadoweh and that seems somewhat genuine on first glance.

Cheetory is only not in my supertown list because I don't have the confidence to call him supertown right now for some weird reason, but hey, he's probably town.

I thought Gamma was town on my most recent read of him because of the way he attempted to negotiate with other players and the way he talks about his reads. It's not a confident read though, but the things that I was sort of weakly scumreading him for no longer apply I think.

Singer's recent posting hasn't made me feel too crash hot about her, but I think Zar and Empire were pretty decent in my mind, and as much as I complain about it the decline in reads of me probably is understandable.

You know my reservations with TTH but they're only minor for now.

Now Titus! I didn't end up getting through much of her ISO before deciding I really should be replacing out, but the one time where I had a confident correct read on her was in the Teen Wolf mini theme where I thought she was town until she tried suspecting me for lack of town pizzazz, which was the complete opposite of what made sense and the way she responded to that strenghtened my scumread. I initially townread her for not being so closed to everyone else in her stances, and this was supported by ffery and co. but now I'm back at the I don't know stage that I'm usually at with Titus.

Day 1 I thought UT was an important town power role which is why I was townreading him for seeming to care about the game but not being incredibly pro-active about anything. I have no qualms with saying this though, because he's given the opposite impression and me saying this is unlikely to change anything because hey, I'm not even properly caught up with the game! Now I don't know what to think between him seemingly not caring what people think of him (which seems town) and his complaining about the town only to not do anything about it (which seems scummy) considering that I'm running out of townread spots I'd probably be good with lynching him if I was staying in the game, though it's possible I'd favour a more pet scumread such as ActionDan or Bulbazak.

Oh and another thing I've just realised about Shadoweh is that her interactions with me are exactly what I'd expect, which also makes me feel good. I feel like she'd be more likely to white-knight me as scum.

And I think that's it. I'm sorry to be leaving you all, but you're probably all jumping up and down all excited and rejoicing.

I have no idea yet who will be replacing me but I'm going to begin organising it now. It's possible I won't find anyone who wants to replace into a 200-page game in which case I'll do my best, but if someone does do it then I can pre-emptively say that they're super cool so be nice.