Twin Trap (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Quilford]

Mina are you here

[Quilford]

I need to ask you something important in real time

[Quilford]

Have you read the games ETL linked yet?

[Quilford]

Or, you know, the relevant bits of them

[Quilford]

Ask Regfan what regs he specifically is a fan of

[Quilford]

Are you planning on reading the ETL games, or just listening to what your teammates have to say on them

[Quilford]

You asked for the meta, I want to know what you think of it lol

[Quilford]

Ahhh just ask Regfan what he thinks of the meta whayever

[Quilford]

No, I'm obviously planning to never read them at all. Is this a serious question, in which you're seriously attempting to portray this as a scumtell? (Even assuming that I hadn't got home at close to midnight.)

p-edit: actually, there's a reason I said my team asked for it. Just curious--is the little backhanded implication that it's oh-so-suspicious that I haven't read her games intentional? Because if it is, it seems like you're missing an epiphany that should be very, very obvious here.

No, no. I missed the original post in which you said your team asked for it. And then in #1183 I figured that perhaps your team had asked for it in the first place because you had mentioned they'd read it in #1178. Or they were just very very up to date on this game. Lol.

[Quilford]

I was hoping you had read the games and would be able to explain how they influenced your read on ETL. I asked in real time because I really did not want ETL to come in and start yelling that I was preparing to backflip and vote her -__-

[Quilford]

Mina, one other thing

[Quilford]

I do feel a bit weird that I don't really understand who your scumreads are at the moment—you've been asking after ETL and other people's opinions of ETL a lot recently, but you don't have a vote down and it seems you've more explicitly scumread BPC in your iso.

Sooooo where are you at re scumreads?

[Quilford]

So Mina what's the very specific reason?

[Quilford]

Yes I would, there was just a bit of ambiguity in your #1192

[Quilford]

Hey Johnny, can you link the town game here you're most proud of?

[Quilford]

Guhhhhhhh

[Quilford]

UNVOTE:

Temporarily.

[Quilford]

Not counterclaiming.

[Quilford]

Lol fuck me I don't even

[Quilford]

Johnny/ETL???????? I just don't even.

[Quilford]

Half hoping Brian is scum trying to out the watcher

[Quilford]

MEENZ ;–;

[Quilford]

That's interesting, I had a look at two of Patrick's most recent games this morning. Conveniently he was scum in one and town in the other and I ended up feeling more reassured about him being town here than not.

[Quilford]

Mina:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=47699
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=31408

[Quilford]

Johnny, are you the watcher or not?

[Quilford]

he says that walls =/= quil town

have i been walling??????

[Quilford]

i don't even understand what that means

[Quilford]

Ugh where the fuck is everone

[Quilford]

Can we please fucking hit scum today

[Quilford]

i dunno. i'm hoping someone will find a really good reason-- ACTUALLY i really like your bit about johnny in #1267

[Quilford]

eh actually

[Quilford]

AUGHRHG

[Quilford]

I kind of feel morally obliged to stay up until ETL and Johnny post

[Quilford]

What's Fenchurch saying?

[Quilford]

huuuurgh

[Quilford]

Ya. it's 11:14 pm but im an utter lightweight

[Quilford]

i wish i was a three shot vig and could just kill all of JF, ETL and BBmolla rn (unless one of them ccs BS obv)

[Quilford]

miiina i thought Patrick's analysis was

so much

shallower and less precise in the first link, not to mention that so much of it was meta as well, not something I've seen in such large quantities from him this game. town!Patrick is really putting a lot into his work in the second link, it's not obvious because he's tonally similar across alignments, but it shows I think.

But now that they've made you feel worse about Patrick I FEEL WORSE TOO >:IIII

[Quilford]

also yeah that bb link is not at all reassuring

[Quilford]

My order of lynch preference (most to least and barring a cc obv)

JohnnyFarrar
ETL
BBmolla
--
--
Patrick
--
--
--
Mina

[Quilford]

Quil how did we jump from "Johnny for town IMO" to me being your top lynch preference?

I don't even really know myself. -___- gut

[Quilford]

VOTE: ETL

If she doesn't check in before deadline she needs to be the one lynched. I think she stands a good chance of being scum anyway and even if not I think LYLO will be a lot easier to negotiate without her.

If she does check in then there are the votes required to lynch JF anyway.

But I'll be sticking around until deadline.

[Quilford]

Miiiina you here? Or anyone?

[Quilford]

OK.

[Quilford]

Who do you think could be teammates with JF, Patrick?

[Quilford]

Yeah. That's a really good point. ;-;

[Quilford]

Deadline party?

[Quilford]

ETL if she doesn't show up in the next hour and 45 mins

Johnny otherwise

At least, that's what I reckon.

[Quilford]

Viewing profile - EspeciallyTheLies
User avatar
Mafia Scum
Username:EspeciallyTheLies Add friend Add foeGroups:
CONTACT ESPECIALLYTHELIES
PM:Send private messageWiki page:EspeciallyTheLies
USER STATISTICS
Joined:Sun, Feb 10, 2013 5:10.00 pm

Last visited:Mon, Apr 27, 2015 2:00.45 am

Total posts:9495 (0.15% of all posts / 11.78 posts per day)
Search user’s posts | view their topics

?????????????

[Quilford]

It's 8:18 am. She was here 6 hours ago and didn't post. Wtf????

Pedit yeeeeppp

[Quilford]

JF at L-1 btw

[Quilford]

That puts ETL at L-1, so I'm gonna

UNVOTE:

and now ETL and JF are at L-2 and Mina and I aren't voting.

[Quilford]

I just don't want anyone at L-1 right at this instant.

[Quilford]

DW meenz it'll be ok

[Quilford]

Hoping against hope that it's Johnny/ETL

[Quilford]

I think I'd vote Johnny if it weren't for ETL being MIA.

Yep

[Quilford]

CES hasn't said much about bbmolla, except a few days ago when he said that all of (Mina, Quilford, bbmolla) look sufficiently town that we could probably win by just lynching everyone else. That was before Brians claim though.

Yeah at this point I feel like we could lynch Johnny -> ETL -> BBmolla for the win. But it surely can't be that easy. Right? Right?????

[Quilford]

I just came to a realization about ETL's role if she's town, though.

???

[Quilford]

.............

[Quilford]

Mina this better not be an elaborate troll

[Quilford]

TRUE.

[Quilford]

I hadn't realised that so Mina gets +9999999999 town points

[Quilford]

OK I feel a bit better about a Johnny lynch today if ETL doesn't check in.

[Quilford]

(My brain is like: but ETL is annoying and at least as scummy as Johnny is. And I'm like shut up brain

[Quilford]

Hi Brian. Thoughts??

[Quilford]

Deadline: April 26th at 20:00 EDT
(expired on 2015-04-26 20:00:00)

Just btw

[Quilford]

I'm at peace with laying down a Johnny vote now and am hoping Zoraster will be online at deadline to put me out of my misery.

[Quilford]

The first three letters of ETL's username are Esp, Mina.

[Quilford]

Deadline: April 26th at 20:00 EDT
(expired on 2015-04-26 20:00:00)

Just btw

I will hammer when this countdown shows 1 minute.

[Quilford]

VOTE: JohnnyFarrar

[Quilford]

2 mins left. Happy, Patrick?

[Quilford]

Aughhhhh

[Quilford]

What.

[Quilford]

I think it could be JF. I know if I was town being mislynched close to deadline with a counterwagon on a scummy person, I'd be flipping the hell out.

[Quilford]

Great. You're not watcher, yeah?

[Quilford]

Hey deadline's passed, we don't care anymore. Are you Watcher y/n

[Quilford]

Great. Thanks for being so helpful.

[Quilford]

I just want zoraster.

*sob*

[Quilford]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Quilford]

At this point my strong strong feeling is that the final scum is in ETL and BBmolla

[Quilford]

I know I know. It's gonna be 2 weeks of flipped-scum interactions! I AM SO EXCITE

[Quilford]

They are so dumb

[Quilford]

Have any of them even played with me before?

[Quilford]

I do feel like a dork for running up BPC yesterday tho -__-

[Quilford]

Brill.

[Quilford]

Nooooooo

[Quilford]

Mina you boob how can you V/LA for a week THATS LIKE HALF OF THE ENTIRE DAY

[Quilford]

Oh my god I just think Mina and Patrick were SO TOWN around the lynch. I just want to powerlynch ETL and BBmolla and I have no right to be saying that given how shite my reads have been all game

[Quilford]

Snort

[Quilford]

Setting up his next two mislynches like that

Wow yeah I an such a chessmaster

[Quilford]

Heading on the metro so won't have phone access for like ten minutes. I just came to a realization about ETL's role if she's town, though.

I'm not sure if I should reveal it! Let's see if she checks in first.

Fiiiiiine.

That I don't see a watcher going, "You should lynch me! Just do it! I don't want to be a distraction in LYLO."

(Granted, I wouldn't see a tracker spontaneously claiming, either...)

So town

[Quilford]

Hoping against hope that it's Johnny/ETL

Yes christ.

Quilford, are you actually a sadist?

I'd prefer you just do it now in case of freak power outage or internet failure.

I just want zoraster.

So toowwwwnnnnn

[Quilford]

An Alch flip of either alignment tells us SO SO SO SO SO MUCH

Add that to the fact I think he's scum

Why the fuck would we not lynch him

Maybe you'll answer what Quilford wouldn't. Who are your scumreads when I flip Town?

Mara and Serra.

then why the hell aren't you voting Serra?? this makes no sense man.

An Alch flip of either alignment tells us SO SO SO SO SO MUCH

Add that to the fact I think he's scum

Why the fuck would we not lynch him

Maybe you'll answer what Quilford wouldn't. Who are your scumreads when I flip Town?

Mara and Serra.

If Serra's scum both ways why aren't you voting him?

this yes.

bb are you going for info>scumread right now???

Alch is my top scumread and provides most info

how is this so hard to understand

because I got the impression that Serra was your biggest read. and it looks like even if alch flips town, Serra is still a scum read. so alch's flip doesn't tell you shit. your conclusions are the same regardless. do you not see the problem I have with understanding your POV here?

also UNVOTE:

VOTE: patrick

soooo fishy. from both players. I could see ETL's complaints being valid if there was a serra counterwagon at the time (which iirc there wasn't at all), but without one this just looks really suss

[Quilford]

I also enjoy that (but sympathise with) BBmolla being 'WOW AN ALCH LYNCH WILL TELL US SOOOOO MUCH' and then him coming into day 2 talking about how all his reads went our the window

[Quilford]

If you are town, I will be sad.

I am town. You will be a convert if you check my scum meta, which has been rock solid sounds like a robot with a pole up its ass mixed with giant flakey mess since forever

[Quilford]

I believe the last mafia is quil. He tried pretty much everything he could to convince me and everyone else that BPC was the proper lynch when I wanted to lynch Johnny. Instead of anyone bothering to work with me - except for maybe MINA - yall ran the damn watcher up to claiming. Beautiful work.

If you're town, I'LL be sad. I'm sure you would know as town how terrible an appeal this is
1. Being right about who scum is does not make you town
2. Being wrong about who scum is does not make you scum
3. How were we supposed to know he was the watcher.

[Quilford]

ETL has some bad logic and weird reads

This literally sums up your play this game, and I just don't think you would play like this as town. Youre a better player than this, from what I know of.

[Quilford]

The very fact that you are aware of it means you are capable of manipulating it.

No it doesn't this is the most bullshit argument ever. I'm aware that my sexual orientation is gay but that doesn't mean I'm capable of manipulating it

[Quilford]

I'm supposed to just take your word for it?

Take Mina's word for it. You think shes town right?

Say we lynched me. Who would you look at after I flipped town, hmm?

[Quilford]

you have not hit scum once in your fucking reads

1. See #1456
2. I hammered JF yesterday. Tho admittedly if BS hadn't claimed watcher I probably wouldn't have -___-

[Quilford]

The very fact that you are aware of it means you are capable of manipulating it.

No it doesn't this is the most bullshit argument ever. I'm aware that my sexual orientation is gay but that doesn't mean I'm capable of manipulating it

I mean, if I was capable of manipulating my scum meta you'd think I would have done it one of the other fifty billion times I've been scum and playing to win. Or maybe my secret master plan was to establish a rock solid scum meta JUST IN TIME FOR TEAM MAFIA 2015 MUAHAHAHA

No. Mina can attest that I basically BSOD when scum

[Quilford]

STOP MAKING APPEALS TO EMOTION.

I get that you have been absent for legitimate reasons. I know how much it fucking sucks to be boned over by a shitty lecturer.

My point is not about the fact that you haven't been here, its about what you have been posting when you have been here

[Quilford]

I called you an idiot because you were not reading my posts before responding to them, not because of anything to do with Johnny. Jesus

[Quilford]

I know youre giving what you can lol. Its that its really scummy. There has been bad logic and weird reads. That has nothing to do with how much time you've been spending on your reads and everything to do with your thought processes and alignment

[Quilford]

Look, there's obviously not going to be any power lynching today. Obviously there will be much scrutinising. It was just wish fulfilment on my part

Every time I get in one of these dumb nonsensical exchanges with you I come out thinking you're town for no good reason -___-

[Quilford]

i'm town. you not getting my reads or thought process is a failing on your part as much as mine.

When more than one person thinks you have bad logic and weird reads, I think you have to step back and consider that its more of a failing on your part, rather than a mass delusion.

Look.

OK.

I must sleep. But I look forward to digging in more tomorrow. I feel like were close to finishing this game. I wish you had been around during the lynch BUT I ACCEPT IRL REASONS PREVENTED THAT.

[Quilford]

Did you ask your teammates about me BB?

[Quilford]

OK... so what are their reasons for thinking I'm scum?

[Quilford]

lol

[Quilford]

looooool

[Quilford]

you do realise you have to actually explain why I'm scum before you can explain why your scumbuddy interaction conspiracy theories are even remotely plausible

[Quilford]

Hey Mina, is your BBmolla vote a team-sponsored thing? I'm interested to know what they're saying.

[Quilford]

Yeah okay.

[Quilford]

Can you elaborate on the town and scum vibes you were feeling? At this point, I think serra was pretty scummy. And did you ever do the aforementioned meta?

Will you be upset if I point out that that was a month ago and I really have no idea what my gut was thinking a month ago? I am pretty sure that I did the meta, but again, ages ago, and didn't get much out of it (otherwise I would have posted about getting something out of it).

I know that's terrifically unhelpful. Sorry.

[Quilford]

Also, I assume your team hasn't weighed in on this game at all since your post at the beginning of D2?

They have, actually. Sleepy posted some stuff at some point and Reck posted really recently post my back and forth with ETL. Buuuut my team is really really lazy and we mainly just pop in and out of each other's games and go 'oh hey here's some random read lol'. Like, I made a reads list for PeelyKrews a while ago and just posted it in the PT, without further elaboration. Lol

[Quilford]

Do you remember which games?

I will take a quick look.

[Quilford]

Do you remember which games?

I will take a quick look.

Noooope I didn't do the meta lol

[Quilford]

(Okay, I changed my mind, this game is really hard, and we're going to lose! ;___________;)

Mina stahp.

[Quilford]

Reck like quoted that part of my post where I said ugh I always come out of arguments with you [ETL] feeling like youre town for no good reason. He was like YEPPPP and then added a bit about her conviction and then, REALLY HELPFULLY THANK YOU RECK said 'uhhh and I don't think Patrick is as town as you think he is'

[Quilford]

Sleepy took issue with a certain post of BB's and really didn't like his Alchemist vote at all.

Mina, BB's Alchemist vote is legit terrible. I want you to go back and look at it again.

[Quilford]

(Quip it's possible Alche is just not very good, so calling him scum because he's not doing what good town do is kind of a meh argument.)

(No offense Alche. Or take offense, either way)

Sleepy didn't get why BB was voting Al if he thought this

[Quilford]

Mina stop judging my team's terrible attempts at collaboration and get back here

[Quilford]

UGHHHH

[Quilford]

Work is incredibly quiet. But reading this last page there's been about 20 things I didn't want to hear =/

I'm guessing like 19 have come from me yeah

[Quilford]

Oh.

...

So what are they

[Quilford]

Ugh no stop brain I must sleep

[Quilford]

Unlike you, I don't actually trust my teammates' reads, because they haven't been following closely along. It's why when Reck said BBmolla was town earlier I kept him at null, lol

[Quilford]

No. I take it you mean buddying to be a conscious effort to insinuate oneself as likeable and agreeable. So no. If I have been nice and/or goofy its probably because I feel like I can do that in your presence, and not for any manipulative reason. I would never do that as town because I consider it intellectually lazy and terrible, similarly to why I don't sheep and hate when people do

[Quilford]

So what were your reasons for thinking I'm scum again ETL? I thought you were compiling a list of reason your teammates think I'm scum

[Quilford]

...

Given you have a strong preference for my lynch, I would expect you to be able to name at least one reason off the top of your head.

[Quilford]

Like, the momentum of support for lynching BB is alarming.

There are three people here who want to lynch Molla. That is the bare minimum required for a lynch.

[Quilford]

p-edit: Yes. Within 24 hours of the day opening....

You do realise at least two of the people who want to lynch him have to be town, yeah?

[Quilford]

Continue trying to discredit my arguments. Doesn't make them invalid, no matter how much you wish it.

Its not discrediting if they literally make no fucking sense

[Quilford]

Your whole point is that the momentum is suspicious. I'm pointing out that the majority of whatever momentum there is by necessity must be contributed by town. So the momentum is not suspicious, lol

[Quilford]

I am going to enjoy post-game.

Remind me who you were voting at the end of yesterday?

[Quilford]

Great. You think I'm scum for being wrong about Alchemist and BPC.

[Quilford]

I'm honestly pretty okay with either a BPC/Johnny lynch

The Johnny read is a lot because I dislike his read on me because it reads as "Look at all this stuff that indicates this player is a bad player, so he must be scum"

I actually might lean BPC a bit more, because BPC seems kind of robotic.

I think BPC should be today's lynch

I'm not voting anyone but Alchemist today.

[Quilford]

Cry harder. You can't even explain how I've misrepresented you, and instead of explaining what these nonexistent qualifications are, you'll just scream more

[Quilford]

You literally said 'wherever you provided support for a town lynch you have'. I'm pointing out that one of your town reads has also done precisely that.

[Quilford]

*could have provided

[Quilford]

which not only explains the massive amount of momentum they had, but the lack of viable counterwagons.

Yeah. I know that when I'm scum voting a townie when my buddy, I'm always like 'wow you know what we should really do? We should help the town with another lynch instead'

[Quilford]

Despite being the towniest fucking town to ever town, it is no wonder she is still around. You needed her.

Yeah. Or it might have been the two power roles that needed nightkilling instead. Do you actually have a brain

[Quilford]

Is that the expression on your face post-lobotomy?

[Quilford]

Its funny how youre easier to understand now than you were when you were trying to use words in sentences

[Quilford]

And now, pushing BB, who really hasn't done anything scummy besides "I don't like his scum hunting". Are you fucking kidding me? Do you know this guy like... at all?

And you whine at me for misrepresenting you.

Look at BBmolla's reason for thinking Alchemist scum. He thought Alchemist was scum for "posting shit for the sake of posting shit" when Alchemist was actually just talking about RVS in the middle of a discussion about RVS. Plus "oh I saw the same shit Patrick did." I have been all over BBmolla's terrible Al!scum reasoning all game.

[Quilford]

Quilford, ETL is now being more protown than you.

Yeah youre right. I guess I should stop arguing with her and wait for her to be confirmed wrong post game.

But I hate being scumread.

[Quilford]

Wow, ur scum play sounds, like, rly good

[Quilford]

That's nice dear. What youre doing is called confirmation bias btw, I thought you might like to have the term handy so you can look it up after I flip town

[Quilford]

Mina, are you sure you don't have any time to spare? I want to ask you about your BBmolla read D1

[Quilford]

You certainly seem to have enough time on your hands to berate me ;–;

[Quilford]

Not you. Mina.

[Quilford]

What youre doing is called confirmation bias

Thank you for confirming that you know I am town.

Perfect example, well done

[Quilford]

Oh dear, I'm about to get onto the desktop to post a BBmolla case. It's 3 am. I am strongly questioning my life choices.

[Quilford]

Actually it can wait. I'm tired and nobody's here for me to yell at any more. Sigh.

[Quilford]

"I thought BB was scum all along! I just decided to strategically never give an inkling of voting him or thinking it was scum!"

Lmao

This is so not what I'm saying. I always disliked some of your posts but it was tempered with flashes of town-sounding emotion.

[Quilford]

Now that we're here though and you're being really scummy, your earlier scumminess is emerging as considerably more relevant too.

[Quilford]

I haven't described you as "not scumhunting" once this entire game, so you can drop that angle. I've said your scumhunting has been poor. One example of how your scumhunting has been poor was your reasons for voting Alchemist, which I will get to (they are the brunt of your "earlier scumminess".) You know what's funny about the fact that the phrase "not scumhunting" is raising such red flags for you? It's that I used it repeatedly to describe Alchemist earlier in the game, and you didn't care about it at all then.

[Quilford]

So suddenly the town sounding stuff doesn't count?

Of course it does. It always has. It's the difference between you being my top scumread and me baying for your blood.

[Quilford]

Right now, that is.

[Quilford]

I haven't described you as "not scumhunting" once this entire game, so you can drop that angle. I've said your scumhunting has been poor. One example of how your scumhunting has been poor was your reasons for voting Alchemist, which I will get to (they are the brunt of your "earlier scumminess".) You know what's funny about the fact that the phrase "not scumhunting" is raising such red flags for you? It's that I used it repeatedly to describe Alchemist earlier in the game, and you didn't care about it at all then.

Reading Alch and reading me should be different.

Not scumhunting is a legit scumtell on some people.

Not buying it. You said "not scumhunting" was "scum reasoning" earlier. Now you're saying it's only scum reasoning when it applies to you. Which it never did, anyway, because I never described you as "not scumhunting".

[Quilford]

holy shit captain semantics fuck off thanks

You were drawing a direct comparison to my scum play in Marketplace Mafia. I'm telling you that that comparison is based on shit all. That ain't semantics.

[Quilford]

Ok, here's the big problem I have with BBmolla's Alchemist vote.

The following is essential context—Alchemist's #29 comes as part of a discussion about RVS that has taken place from about the middle of page 1, a handful of players have been involved

and

the discussion has just lead to ETL putting down a serious-sounding vote.

Spoiler: the preceding discussion, edited down (do have a quick look tho)

Skipping RVs and going straight to business.

Mara!

Why do you want to skip RVS?

Why don't you want to skip RVS?

Because of the nature of the game itself! It wouldn't matter as much if it were a normal game, but tm is srs biz and we must act as such

What makes you think I do or don't? Mara stated specifically that she was trying to skip it. I asked why. You immediately assume, or at least try to make it seem like, in my inquiry I want the opposite, which seems kind of silly to me.

I don't particularly like how you are trying to switch the focus off Mara. I want her to answer the question.

Do you believe RVS holds no value?

but tm is srs biz and we must act as such

I don't remember getting this memo D:

I believe it is, I certainly complain about it enough in various places, and yes I do, and always have had a disbelief on the effectiveness of RVs. It is used entirely to often and getting reads from said stage has become practically non existant

In my experience, scum often want to skip RVS because that is when the slightest transgressions can be hounded for a lynch.

VOTE: mara

I see RVS as an ice-breaker stage for the game where people can kinda warm up and prepare to get into the game.

Coming after #28, it looks to me like Alchemist is simply defining his position in opposite to ETL's. ETL says that RVS is a pressure-filled stage for scum that they often want to get out of the way asap because little slip-ups in tone or content can result in big wagons on them. Alchemist thinks it's a calmer part of the game; he calls it an "ice-breaker stage": you're kind of just meeting the other players and getting into gear. The implication is that he's not convinced by ETL's Mara vote.

Then BBmolla blows in:

I see RVS as an ice-breaker stage for the game where people can kinda warm up and prepare to get into the game.

This was your scum post alch

It's so fucking "I'm going to post shit for the sake of posting shit"

I found this profoundly unconvincing and, in the light of what we've just talked about, you should too. Thinking that Alchemist's post is "shit for the sake of posting shit" is a pretty uncharitable portrayal which can only come from having not read closely or followed along with the preceding page worth of discussion.

Alchemist reacts, asking "How is that scummy in the least?" BBmolla replies:

A game filled with veterans and content and that's the post you muster? Telling us your mafia theory about rvs?

Are you serious?

This just reads utterly to me as bluster. BBmolla has described Alchemist's original post as "your scum post", he's said this is the post why he voted Alchemist in #192; given that nobody else in the entire game found Al's post comment-worthy in the least, as scum BBmolla would need to pump it up and make it look like he actually found his own reasoning convincing, and that looks 100% like what he's doing in this post.

He brings up "veterans" like Alchemist hadn't already mentioned he knew nothing about how any of us played. He brings up "content" as if it wasn't the middle of RVS on Page 2. He says "that's the post you muster" as if it wasn't Alchemist's third post in twenty minutes and nineteen other posts. He calls Alchemist's post "your mafia theory about RVS" as if it wasn't part of a longer discussion about RVS.

Your first three posts are literally nothing

Like good luck deflecting onto me, not my fault you fucking obv scummed in the first two pages.

All this reads as bluster. "You fucking obv scummed in the first two pages"? That's certainly not how either Patrick or I formed our reads on Alchemist. There was nothing obvious about Alchemist's play in the first two pages, which was kind of the whole point: it just looked like he was asking a ton of questions to appear curious. And yet BB's read of Alchemist is predicated on his first three posts. And he pushes this read for the rest of the day, without encountering any of the doubt Mina or Patrick or I did? Not buying it, at all.

[Quilford]

Other things that look bad (LESS BAD THOUGH):

- The fact that BBmolla thought serra was scum with Alchemist but also scum if Alchemist flipped town and yet was not voting him, as these two posts point out. Tempered by the fact that there was already a huge wagon on Alchemist, and serra had made very few posts.

An Alch flip of either alignment tells us SO SO SO SO SO MUCH

Add that to the fact I think he's scum

Why the fuck would we not lynch him

Maybe you'll answer what Quilford wouldn't. Who are your scumreads when I flip Town?

Mara and Serra.

If Serra's scum both ways why aren't you voting him?

An Alch flip of either alignment tells us SO SO SO SO SO MUCH

Add that to the fact I think he's scum

Why the fuck would we not lynch him

Maybe you'll answer what Quilford wouldn't. Who are your scumreads when I flip Town?

Mara and Serra.

then why the hell aren't you voting Serra?? this makes no sense man.

- This post, which is made and then never mentioned again.

I'm in that "I literally think everyone is town" zone

Which means I'm probably totally off and it's one of my townreads who I'm biased towards townreading, meaning Mina and Patrick.

Cause I'm like 0/2 with scumreads so far.

- The offer to switch off Johnny and onto ETL at the lynch yesterday.

- The fact that his teammates have been scumreading me since forever for awful / non-existent reasons. Seriously you guys, stop.


There are a few things that give me pause, the number one thing is the fakehammer and Mara claim, which yes, I was initially skeptical about the towniness of this, but each time I go back and read it it looks better and more town. Another thing is the collapse in confidence between days 1 and 2 which feels genuine to me and is played consistently throughout the day. One more thing is that he keeps pumping out WIFOM and I am a huge sucker for WIFOM even though I like to pretend I'm not.

[Quilford]

Apparently my post preview is not functioning. >:(

[Quilford]

BB I think even you scum would have the tact at the start of Day 2 to feel out the general situation, with a mislynch on Day 1 and a power role dead and two of the seven alive players having barely posted at all, and sense that the general mood is demoralized and that therefore going straight for your second mislynch is probably not a good thing to do. So I'm unconvinced by your selfmeta.

[Quilford]

Quilford, whats in your head? You must have more than just boring back and forths with ETL and now bbmolla.

Apart from what I've just mentioned on molla, my head sez:

- I wish ETL would actually be online and keeping up with the discussion consistently, instead of visiting the thread once every two days and doing a catch-up style series of posts that contain reactionary nonsense. YES i know you can't because you post from work and have RL issues, BUT it would assist so much in reading you.

- Patrick is likely town. Gaaaah. I wish I could hook up into your limbic system so I could actually get a better sense of how you feel when you're playing the game, because it doesn't really come across tonally and it's the one thing that probably stops you from being much townier in my eyes. How emotionally do you play face to face mafia? Curious but will probably have no bearing on my read haha.

- If I thought Mina could be scum, I would be suspicious of some of her recent posts about me which look like they're trying to maneuvre into a more null read on me. But I don't, lol.

- How in the sweet banana plantation do people scumread me? KILL THEM ALL.

[Quilford]

I think I'm finding myself swinging back to ETL scum. I'm a bit paranoid that I'm putting her at town just because she can yell really loudly, when really like she's not making any sense at all, I don't have any clear picture of any of her reads apart from the one on me, and I really hate how when Mina was engaging her about my meta earlier, she kept making excuses not to take it into account.

[Quilford]

I also wish mina was here ;-; mina why do you leave me in my hour of need

[Quilford]

Heheh YEP that's my scum play alright

[Quilford]

And you know what's hilarious? We very nearly won.

[Quilford]

Yeah. I mean it's nothing new for scum to waffle about their buddies, but there is SO MUCH waffle. Including that weird back and forth they had. I'm not sure.

[Quilford]

The weird back and forth is weird. I keep wanting to give molla net townpoints for it, but I don't actually do it.

[Quilford]

Lol

[Quilford]

good point, it is more likely you're scum than your entire team is completely wrong about me

[Quilford]

for someone who likes selfmetaing so much, it is really suss how the fact that this looks like none of my scum play ever doesn't appear to faze you from pushing me. and you have played with me as both alignments multiple times before.

[Quilford]

Patrick are you still here?

[Quilford]

I don't know? Changes literally nothing. Go look at my scum play. Get your teammates to look at my scum play.

[Quilford]

Its very telling that you would prefer to make up some excuse why my meta is irrelevant to discerning my alignment than actually look at it

[Quilford]

Here's a question. Back when you were townreading everyone, why were you townreading me?

[Quilford]

*popcorn*

[Quilford]

Like, right now?

address plz

[Quilford]

Only if you answer my questions!

also fly me out

[Quilford]

Uhhhhh... Did everyone die?

[Quilford]

*pelts rotten tomatoes*

[Quilford]

Hmmm. Maybe I should play scum while on drugs. HMMMM

[Quilford]

Yeah, good luck with that.

So what were your reasons for thinking I'm scum again ETL? I thought you were compiling a list of reason your teammates think I'm scum

Yep. I'll be able to hook up with them on Monday. I already said I was essentially not here until then. I have a minute or two right now to make sure I don't fall behind but I'm leaving the office very shortly.

Just a reminder.

[Quilford]

All I'm interested in is whether your teammates' reasons for thinking I'm scum actually exist and what they are. If they all think I'm scum I'm sure they have some pretty compelling reasons, and I'm sure Mina, Patrick and BBmolla would all like to hear them. It's pretty astounding to me that five days, by your admission, have passed since you asked your teammates for their reasoning and yet they have not been able to come up with a simple list.

[Quilford]

Mina mina mina.

Why are you feeling paralysed?

[Quilford]

Here's why I'm feeling paralysed.

I'm not sure whether I want to lynch ETL over BBmolla for producing illogical, bad arguments.

I'm not sure whether I want to lynch BBmolla over ETL for his push on Alchemist, and the reasons Mina gave why his recent push on me were bad.

I'm not sure whether the terribleness of both players despite the fact that at least one of them must be town means I should be paranoid about Mina and Patrick, even though I think Mina and Patrick have been really, really town.

[Quilford]

To be brutally honest, part of it is because your posts have been pretty bad today (combined with flashes of towniness from ETL/Molla).

Which ones? The teammate ones?

[Quilford]

Maybe we

should

just lynch me today. It would force BB and ETL to re-evaluate tomorrow in LYLO, and that would probably increase our chances in the worst-case scenario that one of Mina and Patrick are scum, or otherwise more clearly distinguish which one of them is town and which one of them is scum by scrutinising the genuineness of their re-evaluations. Plus it would take the responsibility for finding the last scum out of my hands, and I would just feel generally vindicated haha

[Quilford]

I genuinely don't think they raise solid points at all. I think coming into Day 2 and launching into the next mislynch, as Molla insists he would have as scum in #1623, would be an obviously scum move to do. At the start of Day 2, the lynch with a tonne of momentum behind it had just flipped town, one of our power roles was senselessly dead and two of the seven alive players were inactive.

Everyone

was reassessing. No town player would have had the certainty to start pushing a new suspect, and nobody did for a while.

Out of all of BB's recent posts I find those two the least convincing and least town, so I'm curious as to why you disagree.

Also can you answer my question in #1675 please.

[Quilford]

And also, they're weirdly self-contradictory?

Molla says that as scum he would've jumped straight into the next mislynch, and not sat around and twiddled his thumbs. But in fact that's

exactly what he did

, voting for me after just 30 hours in the day on a case you yourself thought was opportunistic-looking and exemplified his scum meta??

[Quilford]

fuaaarrrrkkk

[Quilford]

SIGH.

[Quilford]

Molla, go answer my question in #1648 please

[Quilford]

But I don't think there's any real substance to that fear.

Good. Coz there really isn't.

[Quilford]

Molla have you read this page?

[Quilford]

What I want us for whichever of BB and ETL is town to stop effectively making prod-dodges every day or two and tell us their hopes, fears, anxieties. I particularly want their reads on other people than me and their justifications for them.

[Quilford]

tell us their hopes, fears, anxieties.

Yeeees, it would be particularly nice for non-you or Mina players to talk about this, because then it won't be 'omg what if Quilford REALLY IS SCUM'