Mod Error Mafia [TM2015] - Game Over

[Wisdom]

yeah nobody is ignoring me that's why there are two town votes on tbone and two on grey

[Wisdom]

Nobody is ignoring me that's why everyone continues ignoring the fact Ceph is scum

[Wisdom]

yeah yeah there's a pretty good chance. I've heard that from everyone all game yet nobody ever votes him.

[Wisdom]

If he IS scum, he may be a ninja

Or he's scum with a day action. He doesn't have to be a ninja.

[Wisdom]

That requires the assumption of a second scum that has no night action, or for the scum to have opted not to use that action for some reason

Or scum can simply both use their action and kill

[Wisdom]

I have rarely encountered games where scum can't act and kill, so dunno what site meta you're talking about

[Wisdom]

I don't see anything weird. Reck is right, Iece is scummy as hell.

[Wisdom]

All this blah blah that has absolutely no point.

[Wisdom]

Let's lynch Ceph first

[Wisdom]

ns grey is town vote ceph already

[Wisdom]

The only reason ceph is scumread is that many people announced suspicion on him and nobody voted.

That's just an observation that makes me more confident, not the main reason. The main reason is ceph's posts.

[Wisdom]

Which I already answered in 2831 but you're ignoring me, showing once more your scum colors.

[Wisdom]

Ceph is a long ago townread of mine

Yet you've still not told me why he is town

[Wisdom]

-It's weird that Wis is attacking me while I'm not here rather than his scumread that is actually here

You're a much stronger scumread than any of the others, so I don't care whether you're here or not

[Wisdom]

I can't be bothered to do that. His posts are just not town. I got that feeling when I was catching up. Won't go back there.

[Wisdom]

Nothing town about that

[Wisdom]

But I very much dislike how once again you're preparing to get away from voting Ceph.

[Wisdom]

Or you know, that was just fake and didn't come from Brian

[Wisdom]

You shouldn't follow me, you should realize Ceph is scum on your own because he simply isn't town. But you don't do that, you just tunnel on the same people and you don't reconsider no matter what happens.

[Wisdom]

Maybe Brian made it up for you then because you were V/LA - it doesn't matter anyway. It's null and Reck trying to argue otherwise while continuing voting you is ridiculous.

[Wisdom]

and then killing you tonight

Where did he say this?

[Wisdom]

how

he's claiming scum

2505 is an admission of guilt, if it's not someone needs to explain how it's not to me

2505 is a post of mine, did you mean some other post?

[Wisdom]

what? you said you blocked eddie

Goddammit, I need to pay attention to what I'm saying.

This is not admission to guilt. Just why would scum admit they screwed up?

[Wisdom]

and the crumbs he found to Gray's claim makes me super sure about my gray townread.

What crumbs?

[Wisdom]

Are we sure we shouldn't be massclaiming today?

Everyone other than shos, Tier and Reck pretty much have claimed, so maybe we should just finish it.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: tbone

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:

[Wisdom]

Mmmm let's just claim tomorrow, thx

What happened, Reck? You've supported massclaim at least 3 times today.

[Wisdom]

I think I'd rather hear it today.

[Wisdom]

Fine by me

VOTE: reck

[Wisdom]

So what do you guys think of reck spamming in favor of massclaim yet now wanting to delay it?

[Wisdom]

It's quite obvious reck is preparing a fakeclaim here. Can we make him claim it sooner than later please?

[Wisdom]

Oh ok then. Fakeclaims never include crumbs

[Wisdom]

He's not stalling to invent one. His fakeclaim will just have elements of "I didn't want scum to know".

[Wisdom]

What's most funny is that people won't realize it's a fakeclaim when it happens just because I'm saying it will be a fakeclaim

[Wisdom]

I think it's time to massclaim, honestly. There are a ton of claims out on the table already.

I mean I don't know.

Possibly true? Possibly not? Just no way to know.

I think I'd probably rather lynch NS and see if it's true or not? Fuck IDK. Or lynch Grey directly and confirm a town.

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

this is why i want massclaim, my role is pretty lulzy and we already have grey and you and wisdom and i feel like a couple more im forgetting

(still supporting a massclaim atm)

[Wisdom]

I don't fucking know?

I dislike his claim re: Rhinox but uh

The whole random tracker thing is what's hanging me up. Why would he make up that HE RANDOMLY GOT A TRACKER RESULT? That's so batshit.

Oh also, Wisdom, what happened to NO WE ARE LYNCHING CEPH RA RA RA?

I think it's time to massclaim, honestly. There are a ton of claims out on the table already.

I mean I don't know.

Possibly true? Possibly not? Just no way to know.

I think I'd probably rather lynch NS and see if it's true or not? Fuck IDK. Or lynch Grey directly and confirm a town.

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

this is why i want massclaim, my role is pretty lulzy and we already have grey and you and wisdom and i feel like a couple more im forgetting

If I were scum and had a messenger ability I'd probably use it to send out fake results.

But the PM said "N1 Result" and not "Event" or "Message" so I'm assuming it's an actual result.

(still supporting a massclaim atm)

doesnt look that way

[Wisdom]

oops the quotes got posted again

[Wisdom]

inb4 reck is townread for these sarcastic replies

[Wisdom]

So it's okay to go from actively pushing for a massclaim to absolutely fighting against one, all in the same day.

Yeah, in this case it's "Reck just realized he's an idiot in between".

Yet, when Tbone does the same things, he is undoubtedly scum who is scumclaiming and admitting his guilt.

[Wisdom]

It's Reck's reads, not Iece's

[Wisdom]

no, reck has -1. Look at "Score", not "Change".

[Wisdom]

Wisdom unvoted because Cephrir said he was concerned about T-Bone hammering himself IIRC. Or at least I assumed the events were related.

I unvoted because ns asked someone to unvote until he can talk

[Wisdom]

fuck the points fuck the points lets lynch the scum roleblocker

the next person who says a goddamn word that doesn't involve tboner dying is getting fed to a bunch of angry sharks, in pieces

Who are tbone's buddies, grey?

What happens if he is town?

[Wisdom]

hey wisdom

still waiting on mayweather v pac

hey reck

You're still scum

[Wisdom]

oh ok

[Wisdom]

All these people want his lynch though. Do you think it's a planned bus?

[Wisdom]

No he hasn't

[Wisdom]

He wasn't paying attention, he never meant the claim on grey seriously

[Wisdom]

It was like

- grey claims he did x N1
- tbone thinks "but wtf, i blocked grey N1"
- tbone posts it as it comes to mind
- i point out he actually blocked eddie
- tbone realizes "oh yeah, wtf am i saying? i blocked eddie, not grey"

[Wisdom]

Iecerint, seriously, review his play Wisdom. I don't know why you'd rule it out that quickly.

Where are you getting I'm ruling Iece out?

[Wisdom]

I'm sure if you got Cephrir to L-1 there'd be a few people who would "reconsider" their vote. Then tomorrow they could always go "Oh yeah, I wanted T-Bone anyway" and run the fastbus over him.

But that's the point, I've been offering them the Ceph way all day and nobody's following. Well, Reck did, but nobody else. What does that mean?

[Wisdom]

no he said "I need to pay more attention to what I'm saying"

but even so, I still don't understand why you expect scum to say. Was it really that hard to shrug it off as confusion?

[Wisdom]

Uh, yeah. That's how it always happens when I'm wrong, scum keep me around to lead the town to mislynches. I'm active and loud enough that I'm ideal for that.

But anyhow the point isn't that. The point is you're saying that Tbone's buddies would switch to Ceph given the chance - yet they have not been doing it (other than Reck). I guess if Reck is one of the buddies, the other wouldn't want to follow on Ceph unless some townies did first though, yeah?

[Wisdom]

no he said "I need to pay more attention to what I'm saying"

but even so, I still don't understand why you expect scum to say. Was it really that hard to shrug it off as confusion?

This sounds to me like something scum giving up would say :/

But why would he give up?

[Wisdom]

I fail to see any reason to ragequit

[Wisdom]

Okay. But I think if Reck is town, they would have two townies pushing Ceph so at least one of them would join instead of continuing bussing, yeah?

So Reck is scum with him.

[Wisdom]

Unless, of course, Ceph is also scum!

[Wisdom]

we're here currently:

Cephrir - Miller Vote Switcher - When the Mod messes up the votecount
GreyICE - Night action cop - When the Mod doesn't replace players before the night ends
Iecerint - ??? - ???
notscience - Hated - ???
shos - ??? - ???
T-Bone - Roleblocker - When the Mod forgets a night action
TierShift - ??? - ???
Wisdom - Messenger - When the Mod just has to comment
xRECKONERx - Points Awarder - When The Mod Keeps Score


Bins - Conditional Cop - When the Mod Ties Alignment to Flavor
Cabd - Limited Vote Mover - When the Mod Doesn’t Replace Lurkers
Katsuki - 1-shot Miller Thread Unlocker - When the Mod Forgets to Lock the Thread
Rhinox - Loud Doctor - When the Mod Plays Favorites

[Wisdom]

Tiershift is our lynch today.

wat

[Wisdom]

This game. Everytime I think I'm getting somewhere something just has to happen to confuse me completely.

[Wisdom]

@ns

Tier is my only townread other than you right now, and the only person I am not touching. Your reasoning on him is identical to mine on Ceph, so excuse me if I don't care about it.

You also apparently haven't read, because you try to argue Tbone is town with the same arguments *I* am using for Tbone-town.

[Wisdom]

Re: the shos thing

shos is telling the truth that the "conftown" thing was about me, not Rhinox.

Spoiler: Relevant Quotes

yes

Though shos is less likely because he didn't seem to know it was Eddie, unless he was faking it

nope, definitely didn't know. I was all yes/no/yes/no, when I said you might be conftown but then you confused me again so no and then yes and no and FINALLY you fully claimed so yes.

I asked you if you're talking about the "thinkin" thing and you said no. Eddie used that word

But still, why would that make me conftown?

yes

Though shos is less likely because he didn't seem to know it was Eddie, unless he was faking it

yeah I didn't actually attempt to hint at the wording of the PM, I didn't get that you did. And I figured it would make you conftown because being a scum messenger is completely useless?

[Wisdom]

However, there's also this:

also I know that someone targetted me tonight.

shos, explain.

[Wisdom]

Also I dont know what to think of Grey switching from the "scumclaimed" to shos.

I generally dont know anything

[Wisdom]

Are you sure that wasn't you being targeted by Rhinox?

[Wisdom]

Because I felt he was town when we had our exchange.

[Wisdom]

Not particularly, because others are not in my mind and don't have my experiences

[Wisdom]

What's troubling you in particular, Reck?

[Wisdom]

yeah shos argued that already

[Wisdom]

To which I said and I say again: Why the hell would tbone carry out the kill?

[Wisdom]

That's fucking bullshit. Why risk their kill failing? Why risk tbone getting caught even if he was expendable (which I personally don't see but whatever)?

[Wisdom]

It's a no-brainer you don't send your most suspicious to carry out the kill, ffs.

[Wisdom]

What's troubling you in particular, Reck?

We have no dead scum and yet every time I look at any player I have huge doubts about whether they're scum or not. I can literally talk myself out of any lynch in the game at this point which is terrifying, scum are playing very well.

What are you doing about that?

[Wisdom]

You have? I don't remember that.

But if you have, that's interesting, Iece. You are claiming that a roleblocker carried out the factional kill while at the same time you are arguing that scum can't act and kill.

[Wisdom]

I argued that he was targeted by 2 scum because they thought he was the amnesiac tracker.

Then that's not what Ceph was talking about. He was talking about Reck claiming he blocked Rhinox because he actually killed Rhinox.

[Wisdom]

That's how the wiki defines Loud - it does indicate who you were targeted by

[Wisdom]

Or it just works like the wiki says and the mod is not revealing more than he should.

[Wisdom]

But of course you make convenient assumptions based on nothing.

[Wisdom]

^@reck if it wasnt obvious

[Wisdom]

I don't disagree, but why would anyone make this specific assumption based on the mod saying that?

[Wisdom]

I personally see the mod's post as "look buddy, if I meant to tell you what each role does in detail, I would flip them with their Role Pms. You just have their role name, find it out on yourself." There's no basis to speculate that the Loud modifier works differently here, much less to speculate that it works in that specific way.

[Wisdom]

I dont think Tbone can be in any scumteam that Reck isnt in.

What is the point for Reck-town?

[Wisdom]

ok. I disagree with that point, it's quite easy for town to fake those emotions. I do it all the time as scum in such situations.

[Wisdom]

for scum*

[Wisdom]

As for why Tbone is scum with Reck;

One point was the fact Tbone claimed he blocked Eddie - that would be quite dangerous unless he knew Eddie doesn't have a night action. The only way he could know that is if Reck or shos, who received messages from mollie/Eddie during the day, informed him, making it safe to claim a block on Eddie.

The other point is the fact that nobody has followed me on pushing you (Ceph) other than Reck. If you and Reck are town, I am quite sure that at least one of Tbone's scumbuddies would join the counterwagon. That to me means either Reck is the buddy who joined the counterwagon, or you (Ceph) are also scum.

[Wisdom]

But didn't. Reck did.

[Wisdom]

What if me/Ceph/TBone are ALL town then

that could be, the point was why I think you are tbone's scumbuddy if he is scum

[Wisdom]

Uhh didn't mollie or one of them like outright claim during the day or something?

Yes, mollie claimed messenger, but not day messenger. Standard messenger sends messages at night.

[Wisdom]

There are also possible scenarios where Scum-TB blocks or fakeclaims against Wisdom regardless of the claim

Those scenarios are: scum blocking a messenger, scum missing the claim and blocking Eddie, and scum risking claiming they blocked someone without knowing if they have a night action or not.

All of those seem unlikely to me.

[Wisdom]

That's not a clear claim. I doubt anyone other than you understood it.

[Wisdom]

Unlikely.

[Wisdom]

It's funny, I think this shos post is pretty town

[Wisdom]

I can read, and this made me feel much better about shos

[Wisdom]

the risk of lynching the roleblocker is gone.

and yet the risk of lynching whatever it is tier has doesnt matter

gotcha

[Wisdom]

oh look at ceph and iece teaming up on everything

[Wisdom]

Yeah yeah. Lynching a useless roleblocker who thinks blocking Rhinox is a good idea is so stressful.

[Wisdom]

oh look at wisdom having a simplistic view of the gamestate

yeah the sad part there's nobody who can follow me in this playerlist so scum can counter me with sarcasm like this

[Wisdom]

and the whole playerlist will just follow them because they share their dislike towards me

[Wisdom]

no i dont know who to lynch. My strongest theory lies in tbone/reck, but I can also see tbone-town for the reasons I have said and ns/mastin repeated. My early gut said Ceph and Iece, and teaming up against me or my townreads just makes me want to make you disappear. At times I can see shos-scum, but most of the time I think he's town. ns is town, Grey is town, Tier is town.

I think I'll just keep my vote on Reck.

[Wisdom]

And if you worry so much about lynching a roleblocker as you claim, you should follow me there. Reck doesn't have a strong role.

[Wisdom]

shos. You think Tbone is scum. Do you agree with me Reck is a pretty likely partner for him?

[Wisdom]

Ok. So would you like to lynch Reck instead of Tbone? There are good arguments for Tbone being town, and he's also a potential roleblocker, while Reck's role is a joke. Also Reck might still be scum even if Tbone isn't.

[Wisdom]

Reck's role is just a joke, useless to both town and scum, and means nothing. I don't understand your argument.

The arguments for Tbone-town are what I and ns/mastin said. His play doesn't make sense from a scum pov. He is doing scummy things on purpose, he is asking to be lynched, claiming to have targeted obvtown, etc etc.

[Wisdom]

Its not about "too scummy to be scum", it's about the motivation behind the posts. I just can't see the scum one in Tbone's posts except maaaaybe him AtEing to get lynched so that he actually doesn't but I feel like that's a stretch.

[Wisdom]

I consider wgeurts a relatively bad player and vca a bunch of bullshit, so excuse me while I completely ignore that,

[Wisdom]

nah the point is that usually scum dont dare to sarcasm me because they know they're doomed if they oppose me, but that can't happen in a playerlist that doesn't know me and considers me a clown rather than a threat

[Wisdom]

Does he have anything else about this game? I could use some help.

[Wisdom]

Everyone apparently hates this game

[Wisdom]

Your point?

[Wisdom]

Why the fuck does the number of wagons matter when we have 7 days left?

Also sheep me on Reck

[Wisdom]

ok I'll try to help with that.

Grey: We are not lynching shos and I don't understand why you even voted him. You think Tbone is scum, you agree with me Reck is a very likely buddy, come vote Reck with me.

ns: Leave Tier alone. We are not lynching him today. You say that my read on Reck could be correct, work with me and join me there.

Tbone: Iece is not happening today. Join me on Reck.

Tier: Same things I told shos. If you think Tbone is scum, you should agree that Reck is also likely scum. Come join me there.

[Wisdom]

do you see me wallposting

[Wisdom]

thanks MS

[Wisdom]

Ask him, does he have much experience with Ceph? Is that meta read confident, or is he basing it off one game or something? Also don't forget this is Team Mafia, namely a big deal.

[Wisdom]

People aren't saying grey is obvtown??

That's what MS meant, he thinks grey is obvtown and doesn't get why people don't also think that

[Wisdom]

and in fact would look more town, if I weren't town.

My problem is precisely that you look very town

That's why I have been gut scumreading you

[Wisdom]

I figured, that's why the first thing I said was that you looked like good scum. And I expect scum to try their best in Team Mafia.

pedit: @ceph

[Wisdom]

I'm not even a tenth of the way through his ISO and I already want to vote reck based off MS and his incredible misrep of me in post 3386.

do it!

[Wisdom]

to wisdom - proxying votes through the team PT is ridiculous? you will understand if you're town?

i dont get it, no

[Wisdom]

you haven't stated any other actual reasons for voting me.

boo hoo hoo im caught for the wrong reasons

[Wisdom]

Nobody up to this point has actually done anything like that and nobody is explaining their push/read on me in anything other than vague conditionals and gut and policy.

So what? You're not new to mafia, and you surely know that scum can be lynched even without explaining shit. So what is the point of whining?

^Relevant

[Wisdom]

you haven't stated any other actual reasons for voting me.

boo hoo hoo im caught for the wrong reasons

boo hoo i compensate for my shitty play and awful reads by spamposting and changing my reads based on nothing every five minutes

Yeah yeah try to discredit me because I've caught you

[Wisdom]

also lol @ "based on nothing". Every single change I have made is crystal clear and everyone can tell what I am thinking and why at any given moment.

[Wisdom]

shos is actually right now that I think about it. It's a misleading thing and fits scum more than town

[Wisdom]

I doubt you could do anything more with it than you did. The role relies on it being the subject of discussion and therefore misleading the town.

pedit: Messenger is a role that is seen now and then, score thing isn't.

[Wisdom]

Because you're trying to argue that Messenger is somehow a misleading role when it isn't

[Wisdom]

p.edit: Messenger, in the hands of town, is not misleading. Messenger, in the hands of scum, can be used to fuck with people. This isn't hard. It's the difference between Mollie sending me a message that was a genuine reach out versus scum sending me a message that says "You receive this result: _____" or something to fuck with me

No, that's impossible, because it is noted that the message is not from the mod.

[Wisdom]

It is noted as not from the mod. It says so in my role PM. You are lying.

[Wisdom]

shos you also got a message. Is it noted as not being from the mod or not?

[Wisdom]

Have you seen many mods who give, let's say, tracker results, starting with "you got a message"?

[Wisdom]

Keep in mind that shit like T-Bone getting a track result, without setup knowledge, could appear as receiving a message

No, because that track result doesn't have "you received a message".

[Wisdom]

No, it's not ambiguous. You got a message = Not from the mod. The mod himself thinks so, because my role PM says that my message will be noted as not being from the mod.

[Wisdom]

Reeeeeally don't think anyone is that dumb.

i dont see you voting him

[Wisdom]

if scum had a messenger role, they could make it look damn convincing

nope, they couldn't. It says it's a message.

[Wisdom]

Pedit @Wisdom: Just because he is wrong about whether your role could be used for fuckery doesn't make him scum. I'm thinking about it, but [grumbling noises].

are you fucking kidding me

[Wisdom]

His whole point is "omg but there are other misleading roles, having this misleading role doesnt make me scum, leave me alone"

and he is arguing against logic because he cant just drop that

[Wisdom]

p.edit: WISDOM. IT DOES NOT SAY THAT IT ISN'T FROM THE MOD. 'YOU GOT A MESSAGE' IS NOT SAYING IT IS NOT FROM THE MOD.

It is. And the mod himself agrees.

[Wisdom]

Basically, my concerns:

-I'm not sure Reck is more likely to flip scum than shos/iec/tiershift.

Definitely.

-If he does flip town, we might do something stupid tomorrow, like lynching me, or something possibly dumb, like lynching t-bone

We won't hastily lynch anyone. I promise you that. At least if I'm alive.

[Wisdom]

His whole point is "omg but there are other misleading roles, having this misleading role doesnt make me scum, leave me alone"

and he is arguing against logic because he cant just drop that

Yes, because you and shos both have specifically said "oh the more I think about it the more his role makes more sense as scum bc of fuckery"

but I didn't see you saying that about Cabd's vote moving shit

I didn't see you saying that about Cephrir's vote swap bullshit

Ceph's vote swap is harmless, it does nothing.

Cabd's role I could see as scum I guess.

You have no point here. You are not scum because you have a misleading role. I do not scumhunt off roles. Your role just happens to match scum more than town and therefore agrees with you being scum.

[Wisdom]

His whole point is "omg but there are other misleading roles, having this misleading role doesnt make me scum, leave me alone"

and he is arguing against logic because he cant just drop that

If all bad arguments were from scum we'd have lynched shos a really long time ago.

Its not about the argument being bad, it's about his motivation.

[Wisdom]

p.edit: WISDOM. IT DOES NOT SAY THAT IT ISN'T FROM THE MOD. 'YOU GOT A MESSAGE' IS NOT SAYING IT IS NOT FROM THE MOD.

It is. And the mod himself agrees.

No, it's not. Objectively, it's not, and there's fucking precedent for this in other games, so the mod can lick my asshole if you're telling the truth.

Objectively it is. There is no way you can interpret "you received a message" as anything other than "you received a message from another player". If the mod wants to send you a message, he would just do it. It is crystal clear.

[Wisdom]

I don't think getting mod/shos input will hurt here. You could potentially ask as well, Wisdom.

Ask what? My role PM states it is noted as not being from the mod. That tells me all I need to know.

But even if it didn't, it's a no brainer that "you received a message" means "you received a message". Even preschoolers would get this.

[Wisdom]

My behavior and thought patterns are genuine and town.

you wish

[Wisdom]

Why am I scum, Wisdom?

Because of everything I've said and won't repeat. I don't make cases.

[Wisdom]

I JUST LINKED A GAME to show how Friendly Neighbor sometimes shows up as receiving a message, and the existence of that variant of FN alone means just receiving a message is not fucking crystal clear.

Friendly Neighbor does not work like that, that was bad modding.

There's no such bad modding in fucking Team Mafia.

[Wisdom]

The points, they also do nothing.

Here's where you say, "They mislead/confuse town!" and I say, "So does Ceph's role!"

No, Ceph's doesn't, because it does nothing. Both players continue controlling one vote.

[Wisdom]

shos hasn't said jack shit about why I'm scum, either. He has barely even mentioned me all game.

CHOO CHOOOO

Oh that must mean you aren't scum

Because scum are never lynched without cases being made


... if that was true I wouldn't have lynched any scum ever

Cry fucking more about how you are caught and can do absolutely nothing other than face your doom

[Wisdom]

I don't think getting mod/shos input will hurt here. You could potentially ask as well, Wisdom.

Ask what? My role PM states it is noted as not being from the mod. That tells me all I need to know.

But even if it didn't, it's a no brainer that "you received a message" means "you received a message". Even preschoolers would get this.

precisely what format your messages arrive in.

In area tags, without any formatting, and noted as not being from the mod.

[Wisdom]

Also I'm not voting Rock he is painfully town.

rofl

HE IS PAINFULLY SCUM YOU MEAN

But thanks for confirming you are buddies

[Wisdom]

Since caps is a thing

I FUCKING SWEAR IF YOU LET RECK'S ATE GET TO YOU JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVENT FUCKING PLAYED WITH ME AND YOU DONT KNOW HOW I PLAY AND YOU SEE RECK'S POTSHOTS AT ME AS SOMETHING YOU CAN IDENTIFY WITH BECAUSE YOU DONT LIKE ME, YOU SHOULD QUIT THIS FUCKING GAME.

[Wisdom]

Reck is clearly AtEing at this point, betting on me being disliked. There is NOTHING FUCKING TOWN about anything he is doing. He is discrediting me and he is AtEing.

[Wisdom]

Except I've had a town read on Rock pretty much the entire game so it has nothing to do with your arrogant posting.

Then you were wrong and need to realize it, if you're town.

[Wisdom]

Tbone I actually dont think you are scumbuddies, I think you are just wrong. That was just kneejerk.

Please. I know you don't like my ways. But consider for a second that I am right and Reck is scum.

[Wisdom]

What are you referring to?

[Wisdom]

While I certainly don't expect anyone to look at this, I at least call ns and mastin to remember:

This game: Duck Tales is the game where I have played the closest to how I am playing now. Like here, I was in a playerlist very foreign to me, and I was so lost that I made huge waves and changed my mind every few hours. I in the end managed to catch all scum on D1. Pine and Paschendale, two of those scum, acted the exact way Reck is acting here. They concentrated on painting me like a huge idiot, whose play sucked, whose reads sucked, who changed his mind all the time, etc etc. They did basically nothing else. And it was succeeding, exactly because like I said, the playerlist was not familiar with me so my play made them sympathize with Pine and Pasche. Fortunately, I had my hydra buddies as well as mastin, who listened to me and helped me get my points across, and town lynched them all 3 in 3 days despite me dying N1.

I have the exact same feelings here. I constantly feel like scum can easily delete my credibility because I am not trusted enough in this playerlist, and Reck is doing exactly that.

[Wisdom]

yeah, what about that?

[Wisdom]

yeah, what about that?

Is this directed at me or at shos?

If it's directed at me, I find it scummy when people fail to put forward a complete narrative that makes sense and kind of rely on others to fill in the blanks. Sometimes it happens because the narrative can't make sense, because there's a lie in it.

He explained it's relevant to his role

[Wisdom]

However, there's also this:

also I know that someone targetted me tonight.

shos, explain.

That has relevance to my role

[Wisdom]

I don't like how you're waffling between shos and Reck. It's like you secretly hope people will go for shos but want some credit if we end up lynching Reck too.

Take a stance. Vote.

[Wisdom]

And the exact same goes for Ceph.

[Wisdom]

I will not change my mind. Vote Reck.

[Wisdom]

Also who you vote should not be affected by what I do or don't. That's a poor excuse.

[Wisdom]

ok, let me put this another way.

What is your stance on shos vs Reck?

[Wisdom]

This is a complete lie, you've made absolutely no effort in talking to me or understanding me.

[Wisdom]

That doesn't make any sense. How is your approach relevant to what I do, especially since you don't think I am scum?

[Wisdom]

look at all this talking

none of this is talking, it's just you defending

[Wisdom]

ok, let me put this another way.

What is your stance on shos vs Reck?

Ceph this is at you

[Wisdom]

then you went full retard and wouldn't calm down and won't engage with me despite me asking you to do so

You never wanted to engage with me. Asking me why you are scum is not engagement. It's "you can't prove I am scum, you suck". It has the intent of discouraging others from following me.

[Wisdom]

I do not explain to scum why they are scum. And if I am wrong and they are town, they show it to me by doing things that are not whining because of a lack of case on them.

You are trying to pass off your whining as engaging and it just won't work.

[Wisdom]

It's A FUCKING ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND YOUR THOUGHTS AND TALK ABOUT IT

No, it's an attempt to whine about there being no reasons you can defend against. Because that's what scum want, cases they can fight against. It annoys them having nothing to defend against. That's your problem.

[Wisdom]

You think I'm scum
The only way I as town can fix that is to speak to your concerns
You refuse to tell me those concerns
I troll you
You claim I'm refusing to engage you

This is a misrep on its own, because you are the one claiming that you have been trying to engage me. I am just pointing out it's a complete lie.

But this just proves what I was just saying. You want to "speak to my concerns", namely you want a case to fight against.

[Wisdom]

I have noticed that whenever I support you on something, you immediately question your own scumread on that slot. At least, I have attributed your shifts to my actions. This is what I mean by "poisoning the well."

This happened most saliently early today on T-Bone, and I think also on a wagon or two D2.

In this game I think I have low/negative gravitas right now and you have higher gravitas (despite your continuously complaining that you lack gravitas).

My normal town play pattern -- find town players with gravitas, support them if they sound reasonable -- does not jive with how you have played this game, so I have tried to adjust how I express myself a little bit to account for that.

What I do has nothing to do with you. And I am not buying this, it just feels like bullshit. You don't even know me, what do you care about who I vote or not? If you scumread Tbone, you try to lynch Tbone regardless of whether I unvote or not. Same with Reck, same with everyone. What you are saying makes no sense for town.

[Wisdom]

On T-Bone today you even explicitly said that you were doubting your T-Bone read in part due to my sheeping you IIRC.

No I doubted my Tbone read because it felt ridiculously easy and something felt wrong. It had nothing to do with you.

Still, that's not the point. The point is your actions make no sense.

[Wisdom]

I want to figure out MOTIVATIONS for why people are voting me, yet that's impossible to do because nobody has any reasons, apparently

No, at no point did you try and figure out motivations. The only thing you care about is how unfair it is that people are lynching you without explaining why. You are nowhere trying to understand who is hiding behind this "mislynch", as you call it.

[Wisdom]

It's A FUCKING ATTEMPT TO UNDERSTAND YOUR THOUGHTS AND TALK ABOUT IT

No, it's an attempt to whine about there being no reasons you can defend against. Because that's what scum want, cases they can fight against. It annoys them having nothing to defend against. That's your problem.

IT FUCKING ANNOYS TOWN WHEN THERE'S NOTHING TO DEFEND AGAINST TOO

Nope, because town don't need to defend. They show they are town by being town.

[Wisdom]

I play the game differently than you; that's all there is to it. In particular, I generally don't push players who will not be lynched (regardless of alignment), because I think the main thing that it does is increase one's own chance of being lynched without affecting the likelihood of that player's being lynched very significantly.

I do defend players that I think are town who are in danger of being lynched, especially if they have not claimed.

I have had this exact conversation with players in previous games as both town and scum, though I am not going to be in a position to find exact game examples because I think neither was too recent.

So me unvoting means that the player won't be lynched?

[Wisdom]

And I feel like Iecerint should be way more wary of sheeping me than he is. I am used to everyone being against me, this doesn't feel right.

This is the your relevant content subsequent to my sheeping you on T-Bone.

Yes, this is exactly the same I am saying now. You are basing your actions on mine as if you trust I am a scumhunting god or something, when it's clear that's obviously not what you believe. Which makes your actions make absolutely no sense.

[Wisdom]

I play the game differently than you; that's all there is to it. In particular, I generally don't push players who will not be lynched (regardless of alignment), because I think the main thing that it does is increase one's own chance of being lynched without affecting the likelihood of that player's being lynched very significantly.

I do defend players that I think are town who are in danger of being lynched, especially if they have not claimed.

I have had this exact conversation with players in previous games as both town and scum, though I am not going to be in a position to find exact game examples because I think neither was too recent.

So me unvoting means that the player won't be lynched?

If the player with the most gravitas unvotes a player, yes, that player will not be lynched.

This is a scum pattern of thought.

As town, if you are scumreading the player, you can just work with the "gravitas" player and get him back on track.

It's scum who need to push lynches that are likely to go through.

[Wisdom]

So in your opinion a game should just be people voting people randomly until someone asks "why" and then everyone lynches the person who asks why

Nah, it all depends on context

I am done arguing theory with you, this only serves you trying to appear town

[Wisdom]

My stance is that it's not really a dichotomy. Brian would rather lynch shos. I think I would rather lynch Reck, even though the prospect of losing to scum shos fills me with sadness.

Stop. the. fucking. waffling.

I cannot fucking see this being town. Stop it. Take a fucking stance.

[Wisdom]

Lack of case annoys everyone. Also, I don't think Reck's behavior over the last 5 pages is indicative of anything at all.

It is clearly AtE and discrediting. There is no fucking way you can look at it and find it not indicative.

Is it just me, or does T-Bone disappear every time I start to question him?

Yeah try to distract us off Reck, why don't you

[Wisdom]

I don't care to work with you, period

cry more

[Wisdom]

i cant fucking stand this game i wanna cry

look at reck's buddies talking about random irrelevant bullshit and actually trying to imply reck is town while at the same time waffling and saying that they want to vote reck yet not doing it

[Wisdom]

meanwhile reck obvscumming more and more

yet idiots will come and somehow call that town

[Wisdom]

i cant fucking stand this game i wanna cry

look at reck's buddies talking about random irrelevant bullshit and actually trying to imply reck is town while at the same time waffling and saying that they want to vote reck yet not doing it

Who are you even referring to?

Ceph and you

[Wisdom]

Also, I don't think Reck's behavior over the last 5 pages is indicative of anything at all.

It is ATE, so I think I'm doing a damn good job staying with my head above water and not giving in to townreading it.

Those are subtle defences of Reck. They mean to discourage people from scumreading Reck.

Yet at the same time Ceph is supposedly wanting to vote Reck

[Wisdom]

ok maybe you arent doing it. But you're also waffling and it annoys me. And you're using a ridiculous excuse that feels like discrediting for not voting Reck - "why would I do that? You will just change your mind in a few hours"

Why the fuck does it matter what I will or not do? Do you think Reck is scum? Do you want scum lynched? Fucking vote for scum.

[Wisdom]

Tbone's defending sounds like apathetic town who comes and sees what he considers a clown and a person he likes fighting, so he supports the person he likes. I am not seeing ill intent in it.

[Wisdom]

And unlike Ceph and you, he was clear that he thinks Reck is "obvtown" or however he called him. That's a fucking stance. He was not waffling.

[Wisdom]

And however wrong that stance is, it's a stance. And he's not afraid to express it. He is not sneakily trying to push a shos alternative but actually voicing some "suspicion" on Reck to have some cred when he flips

[Wisdom]

UNVOTE:

[Wisdom]

VOTE: iecerint

[Wisdom]

That's not what Amnesiac means.

This claim is full of bullshit.

[Wisdom]

but thought Wisdom would be killed.

especially this

[Wisdom]

Amnesiac do not choose their targets.

[Wisdom]

And his "targeting" is ridiculous. He "doesnt remember" why he targeted Tbone, and he targeted Rhinox because A FUCKING MAILMAN would die instead of Rhinox.

It's a bunch of bullshit.

[Wisdom]

yeah this is a good mislynch

fuck this game

[Wisdom]

i dont give a fuck anymore

i want this game to end

VOTE: tier

[Wisdom]

Scum fucking scumclaim and townread each other and I am standing here fighting them off all alone because town decided to be fucking apathetic