Twin Trap (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Metal Sonic]

I pmed my replacement request to zoraster 12 hours ago but it only just got approved.

I am here.

My goal is to to what Molla lacked the strength to accomplish: string Quilford up.

[Metal Sonic]

quil you're screwed

my spamposting beats yours

my scumgame beats yours

my walls beats yours

you're going down

[Metal Sonic]

@Everyone

I actually haven't been too 100% caught up with the game. Only briefly looking at parts whenever molla asked me for help. So this is like a movie and I've been sleeping through it 60% of the time.

Still cognizant enough to know who the bad guy is

[Metal Sonic]

in day 1 i thought alchey was townish! and quilford was a skeevy scumbag. but i wasnt so caught up in the game and was busy with my own so i didnt assert myself onto molla

turns out i was right about alchey

probably the same about quil

there a lot of evidence against him


this setup DOES NOT favor bussing at all. so yea, the 2 scums will be pretty close knit tight family

[Metal Sonic]

i think brian claimed watcher but i didnt actually ~see~ his claim

thats how aware i am about the gamestate, briefly know the gist of it but 0 details



good news is, i am a fresh pair of eyes

i see through quil's bullshit. probably a strong d1 play but got sloppy after. i think a 3rd party observer would likely arrive at him scum as well

[Metal Sonic]

"my scumgame beats yours"

Uhhhhhhhh...do you see the issue with this statement?

Also, please don't spampost. Please. Please.

Please

don't spampost.

nope. is it rulebreaking or something? zoraster will kill me. so will you, you're the newbie IC

[Metal Sonic]

Please don't spampost.

take a quick look at these:

Also, why does everyone in the game have teammates who suspect Quilford?

Its coz their teammates are bad. even urs

Urrrrghhhh

dat patronising

(Psst try reading next time)

Looooooooooool

Maybe you can read the posts that literally fucking followed it you idiot

God, I am SO, SO done with this game. See you all in 48 hours

Wait what the crap, the deadline is in 2 days?

SPAM. POSTING.

[Metal Sonic]

Hey Mina can we lynch ETL? Then I'll nightkill Metal Sonic and well have a fun little lylo

It'll just be you and me and Patrick. Woudlnt that be nice

that would be nice

xcept thats 2 dead townies wanting you dead

[Metal Sonic]

see the problem scum have here, is that molla's repalce out was super town. he was calling every1 town and being a desperate townie who has no idea who is scum. 99% of the time, scum would potshot everyone and infuse paranoia into all players ~anyone could be scum~. molla went ~every1 looks town idk what to do~



sadly for you quil, i'm out of the mislynch table. you're going to have to kill me.

[Metal Sonic]

@MS: I read it as a scumslip ("you're going down because I'm so good at scum!"), but in retrospect, that's a bit TOO blatant.

you misintepret.

i just died in my game. take 1 minute to do a bit of research.

i know how to play scum, and i noticed that quilford's style is strikingly similar to mine. i know my weaknesses, and i know how to crack someone like quilford. what to look for. what is a scumtell. and what is bullshit that i should dig up if i am town.


maybe quilford's style isnt similar to mine at all. it's like "hey, this random person looks a lot like X!"


but yeah. drawing similarities here, and working on them to break him down

[Metal Sonic]

If you've scumread me since day 1 but yet have only the gist of the general game state and history and no detail, then I think its proooobably a safe bet to say that you're conf biased to hell.

could be. except my other 2 teammates came up with you-scum independently. call that adding up to conf-bias however you want; call ETL agreeing with me independently conf-bias too; call his teammates wrong at the same time TOO conf bias



i'm out of the mislynch table. your only target today is ETL.

i concede that ETL's scumgame is fucking good. i concede that there is a possibility that you are town, etl is town, and that patrick could secretly be scum.

but evidence points towards you. alarmingly.

[Metal Sonic]

you probably shouldn't bet on mina misreading you to secure your endgame. human behavior is disgustingly unpredictable. your game will be ruined.

you have to kill mina if you mislynch today.

[Metal Sonic]

you have to kill mina if you mislynch today.

EBWOP: successfully pull a mislynch today

[Metal Sonic]

Who flipped scum again? Johnny eh. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he got flashlynched only a few hours before deadline? That's going to throw the scum WAY OFF. look who's more flustered if it's not quilford!


i'm taking a quick look between VC #1287 and the d2 lynch now.

[Metal Sonic]

Mina, your teammates are one of the strongest teams in Team Mafia.

refresh me a bit, what were their latest reads and updates on this game?

[Metal Sonic]

ms you glorious man. you are one of only a few to catch my scum game early. scared the fuck out of me in that last game where I was with AP as GGscum with Guyett and flubber.

yea bro. but i backed out >____________<

[Metal Sonic]

*i am aware that you are a female

[Metal Sonic]

ms you glorious man. you are one of only a few to catch my scum game early. scared the fuck out of me in that last game where I was with AP as GGscum with Guyett and flubber.

yea bro. but i backed out >____________<

you disarmed me, i got on the wrong path and got lynched day 1, then you proceeded to CARRY THE GAME

holy wow. i mean town was BAD but STILL.

[Metal Sonic]

VCA is a valid tool and can be effective when used correctly. The people who sneer at it are the ones who don't know how to use it. CES can go fuck himself. Trying to say VCA is hogwash just to invalidate my analysis is scummy as fuck.

this comes from town

[Metal Sonic]

byebye quil

VOTE: ETL

If she doesn't check in before deadline she needs to be the one lynched. I think she stands a good chance of being scum anyway and even if not I think LYLO will be a lot easier to negotiate without her.

If she does check in then there are the votes required to lynch JF anyway.

But I'll be sticking around until deadline.

>this is 1.5 hrs before johnny lynch

Johnny for town imo

^ridiculous

Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch, especially not until BPC gives us something.

^yeah, no

no

VOTE: quil

[Metal Sonic]

i have a fantastic idea


we lynch quil today

then we lynch ETL tomorrow


since, y'know, i'm obvtown, mina is obvtown,, and quil is obvscum who wants to survive but cant push molla's mislynch anymore~


can't deny that i have paranoia of etl. her scumgame is godly. i can break her, but she successfully disarmed me once, so i wouldn't put it past

[Metal Sonic]

It didn't stand out to me as roflscummy, but I can see what you're getting at, Quilford.

looks like a reach out to me. what exactly is quilford implying? spell out your analysis.

[Metal Sonic]

'Spell out your analysis'

Coming from a guy whose latest attempts at analysis were 'this comes from town', 'ridiculous', and 'yeah no'

oh dear me teach me how to analyse senpai

[Metal Sonic]

i dont think they were attempt at analysis

it was finding evidence and drawing conclusions, skipping the analysis


did you think they were attempts at analysis?

[Metal Sonic]

btw the only player i know in this playerlist is ETL,

so do forgive me if i show her a bit more favouritism


all of you are cool people though. even you quil.

[Metal Sonic]

It's bad but I feel almost no motivation to engage Metal Sonic or try to analyse his posts.

It seems like they just agreed he'd replace in to bring more energy and motivation than bbmolla could to that slot. If it's town I'm guessing Sonic just pushed for it so he could indulge his burning Quilford suspicion. If scum at least it lets that slot wriggle.

Pedit like a hundred times: MS, it's obvious that you came in with the clear intention of voting Quilford and calling him scum. Just cherrypicking a few posts that can be made to look bad doesn't do anything.

mmm yeah. a secondary motivation was to remove molla's mislynch from the table. i know how easily he can be a target when he does that confused thing. also, mina + quil + (perhaps you? idr.) taking potshots at him would be actually helping scum.



but really. i think you're townreading quil because of d1 play, which helps him a lot. you can say that i'm confbiasing, but aren't you doing so yourself by stubbornly believing that he's town as well?

what do your teammates think?

[Metal Sonic]

so do forgive me if i show her a bit more favouritism

I don't plan of forgiving this, fyi.

:[ that's unfortunate.

oh well.


i don't know any of the members of your team either, but i am willing to work with you because there is a decent chance that you're town



i have to leave real soon.

[Metal Sonic]

ccool, all the 4 of you have checked in already. like i've interacted with everyone within 1 h of my replace in.

that is good. i'll talk to you all in 9 hours because ~sleep~

[Metal Sonic]

You realize that if you're town, then it's a LYLO between Molla, Quilford, and me/Patrick, both of whom suspect Molla more than Quilford, right?

i've solved this problem.




mina, repeating this: let me know your team's input. they're very valuable.



logging out now, bye guys.

[Metal Sonic]

My team thinks he's town. I'm not town-reading Quilford for his day 1 play, as a quick look at my posts today will tell you. And maybe I am conf-biasing a bit, but I actually gave his play quite alot of scrutiny because two other players today voted him and Mina expressed her doubts as well, not to mention the teams of the people involved. I looked at his play yesterday, his interactions with scum to try and see if there might be a connection. I don't feel like there is. I asked for feedback but got little, only really Mina saying she kinda agrees but that Regfan kinda disagrees.

I also asked Mina for detail on why she was paranoid, and have asked ETL several times to engage on her Quilford points, which as it stands don't make sense. She just ignored me, despite saying she was open to explaining them to anyone not named Quilford. Although I've seen her as possibly just pain in the arse stubborn town for much of the game, I feel like she's just so evasive and so unhelpful that it looks deliberate at this point. If Quilford is scum and wins I'll be gutted and take it on the chin as being my fault, but I'll also be pissed at ETL and bbmolla for being so fucking useless today and not trying to convince me.

I agree about asking for Mina's team input. But really I'd just like to see anything from her thats more than just popping in.

@ Patrick

I'm responsible for my team. I'll make it up on behalf on molla. Phoneposting now. Gonna go to bed.


I understand what you mean about ETL. I'll inspect closely later, cause I think her "lynch me" stuff doesn't sit too well with me; but quilford dying today and ETL dying tomorrow is my current path that I'm looking at

[Metal Sonic]

If you have no doubt that Quilford is scum, lynching you is a horrible scenario because I'm not inclined to lynch Quilford tomorrow if I'm alive and Mina doesn't sound like she is either. That's what I'm getting at when I say that your offer to be lynched makes no sense.

It makes sense to me. Explain this further please. I don't understand why you wouldn't consider quil? That is what makes no sense to me. That seems incredibly foolish.

Consider the scenario. Lynch me today, I flip town. You then lose either MS or Mina, giving you the following possible LYLO compositions:

Mina/Patrick/Quil
MS/Patrick/Quil

If you are already saying that you are not inclined to lynch Quil, despite him pushing a bad mislynch with nonsense, despite shying away from lynching serra/Johnny... Then who? Logically, you'd need to look at Mina or MS, depending on who remained after the NK. It literally makes no sense that you would remove quil from your pool. Please explain that.

How is Mina/ me making a choice between Patrick / quil a remotely good scenario?

The only bad thing that can happen is if quil is town and I haE to choose between you/Patrick.

[Metal Sonic]

Like

I'm already pushing quil stronger than you

I don't know what you're bitching about

It's weird

[Metal Sonic]

i have no doubt lynching quil will end the game. however, the point i am trying to make in advocating my lynch today is strictly strategic - you need to understand this.

removing me from the game pre-lylo means in lylo, considering one of you or mina die tonight, that leaves only quil/patrick to choose from. that is a MUCH better choice than trying to decide between me/patrick,

specifically because of

inherent paranoia about my play.

there is no better selection. does that make sense?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

So if Patrick's is scum magically:

You are seriously positing that:

Quil/Patrick is easier than ETL/Patrick


Nononononono

If Patrick is scum we are certainly fucked

[Metal Sonic]

Your whole lynch me things makes me want to just lynch you. Pun not intended

[Metal Sonic]

I feel like I've made it obvious pretty much forever now that I think Mina and Quilford are town and that the last scum is you or bbmolla (now MS).

I wouldn't vote immediately in any endgame because its a terrible idea, but if faced with a choice between Quilford and MS, it would take alot to get me to vote Quilford.

My point being that in a scenario where you're town who's sure Quilford is scum, that's a pretty terrible situation to acquiesce to. Are you saying you didn't have a clear idea what my suspicions were from my posts then?

It's ok man. I am the very definition of "alot". I want quilford down and I want him DOWN TODAY.

[Metal Sonic]

ETL you need to explain how the fuck is "lynching me to clear paranoia!" A good idea if Quilford is getting lynched today and if you die it makes it a Patrick/quil/ me scenario

I still need to choose Patrick or quil, and Patrick * might* make the fatal knee jerk decision to vote me which um... Is fatal

In the event of which quil dies today, I need to choose between Patrick/ETL, well if Patrick is scum he won cuz I probably will vote you, but it's less fuckery than quilford living scenario

[Metal Sonic]

ooh and then the appeal to self-meta undercut by the failure to take into consideration the meta of the one she thinks is scum. truly... extraordinary

A+ potshot


I know one when I see one, damn I did that a LOT


VOTE: quil

[Metal Sonic]

In the event of which quil dies today, I need to choose between Patrick/ETL, well if Patrick is scum he won cuz I probably will vote you, but it's less fuckery than quilford living scenario

this is why I need to go today ms. I'm town and I will not allow this in LYLO.

i dont get it...

you want to be lynched because of the 5% that patrick is scum

isnt it worse in a situation with MS/Quil/Patrick?

[Metal Sonic]

like seriously patrick might brain fart and vote me instead of quil (if he's town)

and i dont think quil can be trusted anywhere

[Metal Sonic]

you want to get lynched because {in case quil is town, we have a chance!}

but ummmmmmmm

that doesnt work

[Metal Sonic]

That's a false dichotomy if I've ever seen one. I've already said that I came into this game looking to pick holes in people, and BB getting town reads left and right is fucking baffling. I don't know what his alignment is because he hasn't done anything in this game to really tell me what his alignment is. The things I know are:

1. He's put forth more emotion than content
2. If he's town he's bad at it
3. If he's scum he's winning

See my problem with the slot? It's not a scumread, but it's definitely not a townread. So how 'bout this, anyone who has any read on him whatsoever, tell me what and why, and until then I'll just be stating lovingly into his eyes waiting for him to actually do something.

this is a very interesting waffle. way to hedge. he's certainly not describing a partner,

[Metal Sonic]

go ahead,


i request that your questions are not loaded.

[Metal Sonic]

#12 is dramatic irony

All right, ETL's attitude appears to be inquiring and provocative.
In #14, he was playing along by asking Mara "Why do you want to skip RVS?", which in itself is a probing question and an action of also skipping RVS. So in a way ETL is helping Mara to skip RVS by asking for her thoughts.

#23 was a response to Mina, because Mina somehow misreads ETL's intention as not wanting to skip RVS? Which justifies ETL's response, because ETL herself is already making an effort to skip RVS by asking that question. So, um, Mina misread and ETL corrected her, nothing much to see there.

The exchange between Mara and ETL seems to be an action in itself of breaking RVS. ETL is clearly playing along by asking questions to get responses and understand Mara's thought process. So she appears to be trying to figure out the game.

[Metal Sonic]

it's not alignment indicative insomuch that ETL is capable of faking that exchange

but you asked for attitude, so~

[Metal Sonic]

You get a B. Not enough talking about attitude outside of the second sentence.

It's difficult when the sample extracts consist of 4 posts with only 1 or 2 sentences each. But fair enough.


Interesting that ETL was locked onto Mara and pummelling her with weak shots.

#49 suggests that ETL thought that Mara was initially scumreading ETL but later changed her read to Town. Or at least that's what ETL intepreted. "already" suggests a lapse in time and some form of surprise; ETL was probably on alert that mara's tone switched so fast.

#52 Yup, hit the bull's eye. It seems like ETL was going "Mara disengaged so fast? That's suspicious.", which also explains why ETL pursued mara for a bit with regard to that lead. With regard to "checking", I doubt that ETL actually went to check, it was probably a pressure warning to Mara because she suddenly disengaged from ETL which might have been a form of appeasement.

#58 suggests that ETL was suspicious of Mara; nothing much here. She's continuing on her pursuit

#66 is ironic in the fact that ETL similarly disengaged from Mara as how Mara did earlier. The vote change to BBMolla was unexplained and a continuation of RVS which Mara and ETL attempted to avoid in the earlier exchange.

#76 is a weak explanation of thought process; though she highlighted it as such. "Most people don't lie, so people who lie might be more able to slip through!" though weak in general, was a fair reason to posit voting someone during the RVS stage. ETL has already highlighted her own actions as such and thus explained her unvote on mara.



I think the post that sticks out the most throughout the discussion is #66, because both Mara and ETL mutually disengaged. Furthermore ETL went back to RVS onto Molla which felt rather lazy.

[Metal Sonic]

I gotta go, so leave any more questions here

[Metal Sonic]

btw:

Mina, unvote me. Lol.

[Metal Sonic]

I'm not sure what you're asking.

#48 suggests a shift in stance towards ETL and possibly considering that she might be town. "Do you think her being kneejerky is indicative of etlscum?" The question of what indicates etlscum suggests doubt and uncertainty in her etl scumread.

[Metal Sonic]

this game has many females

[Metal Sonic]

#66 is ironic in the fact that ETL similarly disengaged from Mara as how Mara did earlier. The vote change to BBMolla was unexplained and a continuation of RVS which Mara and ETL attempted to avoid in the earlier exchange.

Oooooohhhh, nice. I hasn't even thought of that myself ahaha. The irony I was thinking of was that ETL was like 'scum could lie about their methods because most people wouldn't dive through their meta' and then didn't end up going through and checking Mara's meta after all, not even when she came to think Mara was scum later on.

The real irony was in #12

"Let's catch all the scumfucks"

None found


I'm on phone and left my com so I will answer the qs later

[Metal Sonic]

#66 is ironic in the fact that ETL similarly disengaged from Mara as how Mara did earlier. The vote change to BBMolla was unexplained and a continuation of RVS which Mara and ETL attempted to avoid in the earlier exchange.

Oooooohhhh, nice. I hasn't even thought of that myself ahaha. The irony I was thinking of was that ETL was like 'scum could lie about their methods because most people wouldn't dive through their meta' and then didn't end up going through and checking Mara's meta after all, not even when she came to think Mara was scum later on.

And my 4th paragraph addressed your concern with regard to not checking Mara meta

[Metal Sonic]

Hmm you're right. Mara wasn't scumreading ETL, only her tone indicated suspicion in 30 and 32. But I misread, cause it wasn't as obvious as I thought.

Because of this, it seems that ETL's stance is weak,

She might have commited a scumtell for subconscious projection

I have noted it.

[Metal Sonic]

However, we can tell that ETL thought that way


My paragraph said "49 suggests that ETL thought that..."

So my post is still intact

[Metal Sonic]

Yeah.

"Or at the last, that's what ETL intepreted"

Why would ETL be on alert is Mara is townreading her early?

[Metal Sonic]

I agree with 1920 and 1922

@1921 Could be 1 intepretation. Clearly the bottom line is that ETL was surprised about Mara quick townread. Quickness is certainly a characteristic here, whether it's a tonal shift or a fast townread.

I'm PHONEPOSTING so I cant answer 1923 so easily and detailedly


Yeah I'm fine with answering questions that are not loaded

[Metal Sonic]

Ok while we wait for my answers to be ready,

What is your read on Patrick? What constitutes your read on him, why? Can you point to some examples to support your points?

[Metal Sonic]

Nice, though most of those posts were examples of your townread of him rather than examples of Patrick's posts that made you go "town", which doesnt show so much of "why and how" you read him town. For example, in 1449, you go "soo toooowwwwnnn", although I can't really see how you had read Patrick as more town than Mina from those quoted posts. What made the difference in your "degree" of "so town"?

If it's a Lylo between Mina/Patrick/you, who would you have an inclination towards voting? Why?

[Metal Sonic]

Lmfao, molla voting with Johnny on the end of d2 looks terrible, admittedly

[Metal Sonic]

Oh yeah, I make graphs like that to explain my "reads" too as scum. I'm unfazed.

[Metal Sonic]

Did you use a laptop pencil though? That's nice handwriting

[Metal Sonic]

Hmm

@ ETL? When did your scumread on quilford originate? Give me a recap to the replacement?

[Metal Sonic]

I'd like you to explain why Mina's quotes in 1448 only got a "so town" but Patrick got a "sooo townnnn"

[Metal Sonic]

Did you use a laptop pencil though? That's nice handwriting

Nup, all mouse. I'm a pro

I'm impressed.

[Metal Sonic]

#1435.

Why do you call Molla's teammates "dumb", when you insinuate that he could be scum in #1430?

[Metal Sonic]

#1284.

Why do you have Jonny on your #1 scum list if you were townreading him in 995 and 958? What changed between those 300 posts? Why didn't you make any mention of Jonny until then? your thought process with regard to your JF read cannot be tracked.

[Metal Sonic]

Your townreads on mina and Patrick are clear, that's good. But they're also easy.

Your lack of read on Johnny-scum is highly contrasting and striking when put in juxtaposition to your more fleshed out Mina/Patrick reads

[Metal Sonic]

Quilford, I have some bad news


I've taken a very quick scan through your ISO,

You have never voted Serra or Johnny at all throughout the course of the game, with the minute exception of hammering him 2 minutes before deadline. The same cannot be said for Molla or ETL, as they have voted Johnny multiple times individually and kept their vote there for a while.


This is highly incriminating

[Metal Sonic]

#1444

" I want to powerlynch ETL and BBMOLLA"

powerlynch is a very strong term, quil. I don't think the implication of bb town came out clearly enough.

[Metal Sonic]

#958 is even more particularly incriminating when put in context. Both ETL and molla were scumreading JF, and even Mina commented "I know nothing about Johnny's normal play, but this particularly does not look like a town form of aggression". In #965 you can observe quilford and Johnny counterwagoning the freaking TOWN WATCHER. Molla and ETL both voting scum; quil+ Johnny voting the WATCHER

In #963 quil explains his townread on Johnny "really? I liked 953"

When we take a look at 953 by Johnny, I don't think anything townie can be seen about it.


So quilford soft defends Johnny under light pressure.


How can you justify a scumread on Bbmolla and ETL if they were the ones who began the push on Johnny scum?

[Metal Sonic]

#1284.

Why do you have Jonny on your #1 scum list if you were townreading him in 995 and 958? What changed between those 300 posts?

See #1300. Also you might be missing the fact that Brian Skies who was my top scumread claimed watcher. ):

Why didn't you make any mention of Jonny until then? your thought process with regard to your JF read cannot be tracked.

Also see #995. I think in large part I was awarding Johnny townpoints because he and I seemed to be on the same wavelength with BBmolla, ie that I had not a fucking clue.

It's particularly notable that in #1301 your vote diverted to ETL even though Johnny was your "top scum read".

Your lack of commentary on JF between 800 and 1000 is particularly striking especially when molla and ETL were so hard on JF's tail. There were many things to analyse and comment on; Mina and Patrick both provided adequate insight, but yours was sorely lacking, most especially in context

[Metal Sonic]

#1444

" I want to powerlynch ETL and BBMOLLA"

powerlynch is a very strong term, quil. I don't think the implication of bb town came out clearly enough.

Well obviously one of them would have to be town, because there was only one scum left??

I don't get why you're being so obtuse on this point. I was 99% sure one of ETL and molla was scum. I didn't know which, because they had each done really scum things and really town things at various points. So I wanted both of them dead. PLUS the fact that obviously it's joking wish fulfillment to some degree.

Of course. But you never quite made a distinction between which one, you were simply treating ETL/MOLLA as a collective entity that needed to be eliminated, therefore being able to call both of them town and scum simultaneously at the same time. Additionally, during this phase, there was a lack of interaction between you and these two players in trying to figure out which ONE it is.

You can want both of them dead, nothing wrong with that. What's wrong is there is an evident lack of effort in singling which is more likely to be scum, rather you just want to throw both out seemingly equally.

[Metal Sonic]

It's particularly notable that in #1301 your vote diverted to ETL even though Johnny was your "top scum read".

Are you gonna do the BBmolla thing where you put things in quotes that I haven't actually said?

I said Johnny was my top

lynch preference

. There's a difference.

I will. I'm still phoneposting


If he's your top lynch preference, why didn't you CONTRIBUTE to the lynch until the last minute literally?

[Metal Sonic]

If Johnny was your top lynch preference, why did you try to subvert it by voting ETL rather than Johnny, as a result contrary to moving the game forward in your desired direction?

[Metal Sonic]

Are you saying I haven't been putting effort into figuring out which of ETL and BBmolla is scum during this day??

If so, you are dead wrong and need to actually read the game like I've been telling you to since forever.

Not this day. I mean the day it

mattered

. You were poking around ETL+ Johnny but there was no trajectory to be found in your ISO.

Plus, if you were calling out ETL + Johnny, it definitely means that Johnny was your scumread of some kind.

Also, you haven't addressed how you can justify molla/ ETL being scum with JF when they were the main proponents of sorting him out and alerting Mina+Patrick about JF during 800-1000

[Metal Sonic]

#1315
#1316
#1317


The exchange between Patrick, molla and quilford were highly significant. Molla came across as genuine, and he had the right answer. Quilford attempted to subvert towards ETL, because "whoa ETL is missing" <----- whatever reason this is, isn't important.

1317 does not look like a bus or distance in any way. Add this to molla's interaction with JF and how molla was the CAUSE of JF being flagged in the first place, should signify molla town clearly

Patrick also comes across as town from 1315

[Metal Sonic]

Yeah, the day it

mattered

I was convinced it was BPC's slot until he claimed like A DAY BEFORE DEADLINE

Well, whatever reason you gave, you gave the wrong conclusion and wrong answer.


That's incriminating, do you deny?

[Metal Sonic]

Ok I'm gonna eat some tasty japanese food bye


I promise to reply to your molla question

[Metal Sonic]

Quilford,

It is significant that you have been pushing town the whole game. You've never actually pushed JF. Or interacted with him in order to read his reactions and get a personal read. You just called him town in the face of pressure and conceded that he was your top scumread once Patrick and Mina were convinced, with no visible trajectory whatsoever. Insofar every player has pushed JF scum except you; you were sheeping.

[Metal Sonic]

Also, you haven't addressed how you can justify molla/ ETL being scum with JF when they were the main proponents of sorting him out and alerting Mina+Patrick about JF during 800-1000

Yeah. It's called bussing. Why don't you ask Patrick and Mina how they can justify the same thing?

Because Patrick and Mina also individually pushed JF. The only one lacking is you.

[Metal Sonic]

Yeah, the day it

mattered

I was convinced it was BPC's slot until he claimed like A DAY BEFORE DEADLINE

Well, whatever reason you gave, you gave the wrong conclusion and wrong answer.


That's incriminating, do you deny?

Yes, I do deny.

In any game where town loses, at least one townie must have given the wrong conclusion and wrong answer at a crucial point in the game.

Being wrong is not incriminating in the slightest.

Well, I certainly don't want town to lose

[Metal Sonic]

I am aware of the difference between wrong town and scum.

The problem here is that I see purposeful attempts to nudge the lynch away from JF

[Metal Sonic]

You've never actually pushed JF. Or interacted with him in order to read his reactions and get a personal read. You just called him town in the face of pressure and conceded that he was your top scumread once Patrick and Mina were convinced, with no visible trajectory whatsoever. Insofar every player has pushed JF scum except you; you were sheeping.

#825. #827. #898. #921. #922. #995.

Read them. Thanks.

I already have. I was woefully dissatisfied.

[Metal Sonic]

Also, you haven't addressed how you can justify molla/ ETL being scum with JF when they were the main proponents of sorting him out and alerting Mina+Patrick about JF during 800-1000

Yeah. It's called bussing. Why don't you ask Patrick and Mina how they can justify the same thing?

Because Patrick and Mina also individually pushed JF. The only one lacking is you.

That makes no sense as an answer. Your original question was asking me how I could scumread molla or ETL if they were engaging with JohnnyFarrar for 200 posts. I'm pointing out that, well, why aren't you asking Mina and Patrick the same question, because they're also scumreading your slot and ETL.

Well, I'm engaging you now, so I'll asking you first :p

I'm confident that Mina and Patrick will chip in later

[Metal Sonic]

Without prompting

[Metal Sonic]

I am aware of the difference between wrong town and scum.

The problem here is that I see purposeful attempts to nudge the lynch away from JF

Yeah. But you haven't actually read or comprehended what happened around the lynch fully. Once you do that, you will understand why I wanted to lynch ETL over JF, and why e.g. Mina was considering the same.

I'm more concerned between the exchange in 800-1000. It's more significant because it indicates the start of a momentum shift against JF. Not so much as the part near the deadline, since everyone pretty much had JF on their death list by that point.

[Metal Sonic]

You've never actually pushed JF. Or interacted with him in order to read his reactions and get a personal read. You just called him town in the face of pressure and conceded that he was your top scumread once Patrick and Mina were convinced, with no visible trajectory whatsoever. Insofar every player has pushed JF scum except you; you were sheeping.

#825. #827. #898. #921. #922. #995.

Read them. Thanks.

I already have. I was woefully dissatisfied.

I don't care that you're dissatisfied. The linked posts show that your assertions in #1963 are flat-out wrong.

I can only break down the posts specifically at a computer. The fact that you never actually pushed JF still stands. 825 was a simple question which never posed a threat or pressure to JF, furthermore his response was so shallow that I was surprised you even let him off. JF never really answered 827. I've also referenced the rest already

The point stands. Relatively compared to other players, you interaction with JF was insignificant

[Metal Sonic]

"JF for town IMO" when ETL and Molla were voting JF looks like a blatant nudge to me

[Metal Sonic]

Ok I seriously should get out of here. Leave a message, bye

[Metal Sonic]

The effectiveness of the action in achieving the desired outcome was insignificant

[Metal Sonic]

EBWOP : irrelevant

[Metal Sonic]

As is the amount of effort you put into the action of developing a genuine read on Johnny

[Metal Sonic]

You notice how you're losing all these arguments? Its because your central premise is utterly wrong.

It's cause I'm on a phone and eating delicious japanese food, silly!

[Metal Sonic]

lol.


I think you misunderstand when you think that I am ISO scumhunting. I hate ISO scumhunting; it's useless, and I can circumvent it easily as scum anyway.

For now I just go to the significant extracts of the game and read those parts. Such as the initial JF push and the end of day 2. You also highlighted the start of the game which was cool.


But yeah, by rereading the whole game I don't expect my reads to change until you want me to look at Patrick/Mina (lol)

[Metal Sonic]

BBmolla—your slot!—enters the game in #60. What do you make of the reactions to his entrance?

#62 is insignificant

#63 indicates excitement and eagerness, which is likely to be from town

#64 expresses contempt and irritation, I'm not sure what warranted the response.

Furthermore, in #66, ETL votes Molla as some form of RVS, earlier referenced in my previous answer.

Same goes for Mina's #69

#71 appears to show thought in BPC, especially when he tries to consider if Molla's entrance was alignment-indicative or not. This is good -- it indicates scumhunting

(Side: #80 and #83 is suspicious. Unnecessary aggression, though possible influenced by real-life factors.)

#96 explains the reason for ETL's vote, which was because of Molla's lack of substance in his entrance post. However, this certainly points towards an RVS reason, as ETL does not show anything else which might constitute a scumread.

(Aside: #103, Alchey is a cutie pie <3)

[Metal Sonic]

I enjoy that the last four pages have just been you and me.

sorry patrick and mina haha.

I can't believe the four pages were by me phoneposting.

Now, I've reached my computer. If you're here replying... poor patrick and mina indeed

[Metal Sonic]

Oh hey, Mina checked in.

MS, why are you individually scumhunting the posts of dead people?

What are you talking about? Quilford highlighted to me the parts where he wanted me to analyse, which was the first 5 pages, and I did. Definitely it includes more dead players than live ones.

Also, why are you coincidentally townreading all the flipped town players but scumreading or nullreading the reactinons of those who haven't flipped?

I'm not sure what you're looking for in this. I've mentioned earlier that I was townreading alchey and scumreading quil on Day 1 itself, but because I wasn't invested in the game so I didn't push hard on molla to change his reads. Also, I've only scum or nullread the reactions of ETL? That's only one.

(On that note, Regfan has been pestering me to post all his thoughts in the thread for a couple of days--now I have to update the newbie queue before work, so I probably can't oblige him until tonight. Given he's a lot more sane and anchored than I am, I figure paraphrasing them might be valuable to someone.)

Can Zar provide some input into the game? He is in the game that I died in, so he saw my scumgame first-hand. I want to draw similarities between what Quilford is doing now.


@Quil, any more questions?

[Metal Sonic]

I don't like them because he doesn't seem open to rereading the game or reconsidering his reads.

Is this alignment indicative?

[Metal Sonic]

Also, why are you coincidentally townreading all the flipped town players but scumreading or nullreading the reactinons of those who haven't flipped?

Also...... poooosssibly because I cheated and saw the answers before I 'took the test'

[Metal Sonic]

although I REALLY liked MS's entry and was on the verge of unvoting,

actually personally i think that molla's replace out was more townier than my entry!

but ok!

[Metal Sonic]

And JF did something where he townread Alchemist to high heavens but called everyone else scummy, so that's why I'm looking out for that kind of behaviour.

Exactly.

This is the quintessential reason why Molla's replace out was town.

Scum would have called everyone else scummy.

[Metal Sonic]

Here's a really lame reason for why I should be towntowntown @Mina

Do you really think that I would replace into a scum slot for Molla just after tilting a scumgame?

[Metal Sonic]

The biggest issue with quilford is that I haven't been able to figure him out the entire game, and my whole team thinks he's scum, especially after Johnny's scum flip and the way that happened. I'm supposed to ignore all that in favor of a single player's one-game meta on him? I just can't do that anymore.

It's funny, cause this actually happened in my team pt too. vezok suddenly went gung ho after molla was like "halp guyz i dunno what to do" and bombed a case on quil, then shos posted a bit more points. my contribution to the discussion was merely "yeah okay, quil looks like scum"

so i can feel where ETL was coming from and the fact that it appeared simultaneously in my team PT too independently gives it a lot of weight

[Metal Sonic]

Well, I

should

read the game in its entirety before doing anything more,

but that's going to give me more ammo against quil rofl


but well then i get to understand the context of the game better

[Metal Sonic]

@Quilford

How can you justify a townread on Johnny when his CATCHUPS are SO FUCKING SHALLOW?!?!?!??!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

Spoiler: Johnny's catchups

Still at school so my catch up is gonna be slow and piecemeal. Nor that anyone's here to care right now :C

VOTE: ETL

Being too knee-jerky

Oh no guys I'm way knee jerky I'm so dead

Anyways first five pages are about as useful as first give pages generally are.

Early thoughts include Mina seems like she's stretching, but whether that's scum trying too hard vs. town trying to end RVS remains to be seen.

BPC uses a lot of exclamation points and Quil is cutesy, and I want to look into their metas to see if these two things are as pronounced in their town games because psychology blah blah blah

Mara looked like she was trying to step on people's toes

I don't particularly like the way Espy switches from talking directly to people to talking in general at everyone here.

Not sure why Alch is getting votes for being useless, he's far from the only one and I don't see anything else really scummy

BB is either reaction testing or just no fun. Maybe both.

A couple people haven't posted yet -_-
... One of them is my slot -_-


To be continued ~

Next five pages

Enter Patrick. He's a wet blanket. Hooray. His Alch attack looks bad to me, but that could just be coming from my knowledge that he's town.

Alch is broadcasting newbtells on all wavelengths and people are attacking him for it -_- his response to quil was really good too -_- HINDSIGHT

Mina gets kudos for actually looking up Alch's GTKAS, and also continued hunting throughout these pages. Not really alignment indicative, but I'd rather she continued living. Though the weird condescension here makes me think he was a little too willing to lynch a person who was clearly not all the way good at Mafia yet. Meh. I could be convinced to vote Mina.

BB with the same defense I would make. Does right mean town? Then makes a terrible argument. Does wrong mean scum? Basically my problem with this whole minimalistic "vote who I think is right and be difficult about everything else" playstyle is that it makes it really hard for me to think of you as anything but scum when you're so wrong. Hopefully you pick it up in the future.

I can't think of Quil as anything but town thanks to Mina's convincing.

This game is looking fun

Almost hallway there ;-;

(I should probably figure out what all this token nonsense is, and just read the TM rules in general)
Also the general "my scumreads are just PoE because everyone's SO TOWNY" is scary to me right now. Also the use of sheeping as a dirty word and the use of the word misrep at all makes me upset. Sheeping is fine and only bad players misrep.

BPC's unhappiness with Mina's townread on my slot seems weird to me, given that BPC wasn't particularly advocating for my scuminess. Simple disdain for others' townreads reads as scum to me.

BB said this and I dunno what it means.

Quil seems uncharacteristically hostilehere and I don't know what to think about it. Then he just flies off the deep end? What is happening?

Espy says (don't worry guys this absence has been site wide) and that irks me. Also makes it clear he's doing ISOs in alphabetical order. If small scumreads keep piling up I'm going to vote him just for the pleasure of not dealing with him in a potential lylo situation.

Cutting this short at page 14 because phone is dying. Bbl.

Quil is laying it on so thick. Reading day two is gonna be funny or sad. Angry catbug made me laugh though.

Patrick is sooooooo boooooooring. All of his reads are great and well thought out and logical in a way that tells me nothing about his alignment at all.

BB's deafness to those who disagree with him is annoying. Forget what I said about Espy sucking in lylo, BB would ruin lylo for town. His stance that my slot is scum regardless of Alch lynch given between pages 24 and 25 combined with his "I'm not voting anyone but Alch today" stance reeks to me of setting up future lynches, which I don't like.

BPC is so hard to read guys

Espy's vote on Mara is pretty damn confusing considering Alch was town. Can't figure out why it happened and the reasons stated are pretty bad.

WOAH NO REASON MARA CLAIM. THE FUCK?

Holy shit the day turned into a disaster after that. Pursuing this and starting a new piece

Holy SHIT. his posts are ALL DESCRIPTION 0 ANALYSIS

It appears that in this game, you prize analysis and semantics. You prize deep thought process.

Somehow, you turn off the blinkers at Johnny and let him PASS with this BULL UTTER SHIT


Holy crap, this one of the most alignment-indicative hypocritical biases I've ever seen.

Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch,

Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch,

Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch,

Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch,

Not even a call out. Not even a point-by-point break-down on his lack of points. Nope, just lame questions about a few controversial reads when all of them actually warrant one.

---

Mina, how can you be so blind? Remember what you posted earlier 883

"Apparently, your one town read is Quilford. Can you restate why?" <------------- I think this is significant in the fact that both Quilford and Jf were mutually "townreading" each other during light amounts of pressure from ETL and a vote from Molla.

2) complaining about how the one person we've already lynched, Alchemist21, was apparently more town than every single other player in the game except for Quilford. (I've always thought the "chastising players for the lynch" scumtell was overrated, but you're so attuned to every piece of blinding innocence from our top suspect D1, and yet can't see similar signs coming from most living players?)

This was before BPC/Brian claimed watcher. Context fucking helps, friends.

See the absolute fucking problem here? Johnny was

necessary

for the scumteam to live because the Watcher was unknown; by getting the watch immune goon dead, it would've been suicidal. Ironically, it was only after Brian claimed watcher that Johnny was bussable; I mean, they're killing the watcher anyway that night, having the watch-immune dead was finally given the green light. Before the watcher was eliminated, however, the watch-immune goon had to be kept alive. Even if he was the scummiest thing ever to slither out of a truck shop toilet.

Quilford, if following his normal rules, principles, and trajectory, would have LATCHED ONTO JOHNNY LIKE A HAWK AND CRUSHED HIM. He has no problem sparring with me, ETL, mina, et al with logic attacks, but when faced with Johnny's jokes of 842 and beyond, we get these fail reasons to townread him:

Johnny for town imo

Really? I liked #953.

Also, therein lies the problem with BBmolla, which is that I get really suspicious of people who can't see him as anything but town because of the fakehammer:

Why not look at his actual fucking scumhunting, which is the number one alignment indicative thing in the entirety of mafia? Because it hasn't been very fucking good. Go back, look at his reasons for scumreading Alchemist, and tell me they even begin to approach good.

I have found various aspects of BB's play town, which is why I have him at null. But people (Patrick, ETL) who are just saying blah blah emotion blah fakehammer need to look a little bit closer, for Christ's sake.

Your lack of nuance in your read on him really concerns me (To Patrick)

, which is precisely not what I want, because it's destroying my previously held townreads on you and, I think, making me think

Johnny is townier than he actually is.

Holy shit, Quil was threatening Patrick to "destroy previously held townreads" because of something as high level as "a lack of nuance in read". Johnny was right next door giving useless sparknotes summaries of the game.

Thaaaat's a hard question to answer. I would probably sa logical because my gut is wrong more often than not, though I've been known to be bad at ignoring it.

As to your tonal argument, it makes a bit of sense, but I entered this game knowing my slot was in trouble and my lynch would mean lylo, and on top of that I saw everyone screaming things like "my scumreads are PoE" and such, so that may have something to do with me nitpicking everyone to death.

Alch is pretty easy to defend in hindsight, but I genuinely have no idea how that whole day went by without anyone even coming close to a counter wagon.


My town -> Scum order:

Quil

Patrick
Mina
BB
Esp
BPC

My problem with BPC is lurking in a sense but it's more for the opportunistic time he lurked toward the end of the last day phase. Showing up and being all "yeah I'm down for a Alch lynch" and then taking no initiative beyond that looks like "I'm here but want no accountability" to me.

My townread of Quil is probably bigger than I even originally stated. What I said was something along the lines of "Mina has convinced me that Quil is town," but the more I think about it the less scum Quil makes sense. I don't particularly see scum going so hard at a newb townie day one, when he cracks it looks like genuine anger, and that semantic argument with Espy day one looked like quality "scum wouldn't keep this going" work.

You should've bussed this loser immediately because it's what you would have done as town. holy shit. even if he's the watch immune goon without the dead watcher. because you would get townpoints and the tracker wouldnt guilty you yet (although he can perform some cop clears.... a catch 22)




Where was your rigorous analysis of JohnnyFarrer? Let's find out your reason for why Johnny was town as of 898:

Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch, especially not until BPC gives us something.

Can you explain why (to the first part, not the last part)?

I like his assertive responses to my questions.

lmfao!

let's see what you would have fixed it with if he wasn't your precious watch immune goon without a dead watcher

- I don't like them because a lot of the analysis is either shallow or nonexistent.
- I don't like them because he's mainly giving summaries of the game without analysis.
- I don't like them because he's calling everybody scummy without very convincing reasons.
- I don't like them because I can't see his thought process clearly.
- All of it reads as bluster.

[Metal Sonic]

I've established motivation: Why bussing the watch-immune goon was highly unlikely prior to the identification of the Watcher
I've provided evidence: Quilford defending Johnny unnaturally which he would never have done according to his principles of townreading (The importance of analysis and thought process, johnny had shit)
I've established why other suspects are not likely: ETL was responsible for beginning the push onto JF; Mina followed up; Molla was eager to vote scum as well. Patrick was "obvtown" and also interacted with JF strongly in 904. Way more insightful than Quilford had ever show for it #825 and #827

VOTE: quilford

[Metal Sonic]

I might be just talking to talk. But Quilford:

1) Can you elaborate on "assertive responses to your question"? Not sure I see what you mean.

He was very forthright in response to me in #826 and #828. Strikes me as town. I think scum would've been more weaselly.

Would you

seriously

townread #826 and #828 given the high standards and expectations you set for every other player in the game?

Why is the bar lowered so drastically for JF? (This is a loaded question, I know)

[Metal Sonic]

Though the fact that so many spectators seem to suspect him is something I mentioned in my skypechat earlier today as well.

Wake up. WAKE UP.

This is the lull of Quil's in-thread strong play. Replacements and/or 3rd party observers are able to pierce the veil because they won't be as emotionally affected by Quil's charms.

Molla was townreading quil too. It's a thing.

[Metal Sonic]

I've read from Day 2 ------> Now by the way.

Day 1 can be caught up later.

[Metal Sonic]

7) JF, read on BBmolla. Explanation for why it's not a town read on BBmolla. Go!

My read is "This man ain't said anything useful, and now that he was so wrong on day one everyone's ok with him barely posting anything on day 2 because he's sad or something." I've seen nothing even close to content come from him (much less anything townie), and unlike Patrick he doesn't even seem to be playing to win.

Why is he town?

This is hilariously bad.

Why didn't Quilford call this out for bad thought process and poor analysis?

Their interactions were sketchy as fuck until Brian claimed watcher.

Really, it isn't rocket science.

How about everyone go back to a re-reading spree on Day 2 until Brian claimed watcher? With the knowledge that JF was scum.

[Metal Sonic]

No wonder molla said this game sucks

I have a great deal of paranoia about Patrick now

Fuck

[Metal Sonic]

Patrick

Quilford is scum, it's glaringly obvious

If we don't win after he flips today, I promise to look at ETL

please have faith here

[Metal Sonic]

Don't bother, ETL. I looked at your play in Antihero Redemption, where you clawed and scraped your way to a scum win by pouring emotion into the thread, insulting people, and expressing disgust at the gamestate. I don't want to see or hear any more of it.

I was most certainly in AH: redemption

Please trust my judgement

[Metal Sonic]

MS, on the contrary, this page makes me feel more reassured in my Patrick read. (Ooh, I should check out

Hey, ETL, token claim. Because I don't believe in the SLIGHTEST you used five tokens on one game to make someone town.

I dunno. Need quil dead. Dear in headlights after partner flipped. Otherwise would be very town

Patrick not considering partner associations. Couldn't be ETL cause ETL pushed JF when there was no scum motivation to.



@ ETL reply me I had a question

[Metal Sonic]

Patrick

I certainly can't be partners with ETL cause there is only 1 scum left

Just because I "have an agenda" doesn't mean I am wrong. It's a town agenda ffs I want to win as much as you do

I want you to take my faith in reading ETL cause you say there is at least 1 town in me/ms and we are mutually townreading each other (her more so than me)

[Metal Sonic]

Hmm

@ ETL? When did your scumread on quilford originate? Give me a recap to the replacement?

[Metal Sonic]

Patrick you keep saying I have an agenda. It's not like its a scum agenda or anything. Why are you ignoring it?

[Metal Sonic]

Do you actually think that I haven't been considering ETL? Cause I made the remark that if quilford is town I will likely be bringing ETL down

[Metal Sonic]

MS do you think Patrick is town? Sthar does not. He thinks Quil is just lost behind confbias.

p-edit: Oh ok. End of D1 when he was arguing semantics with me, over word usage. It was just like Titus in Street Racers. Noise making for the sake of noise making. Generating meaningless, non-game-related posts, one after another, to make the game difficult to parse later on and to put himself in a position to say AHA LOOK I MADE CONTENTS when it really wasn't content. Like the whole thing literally had no pertinence on the game state or anyone's alignment. And on top of it all, he said he was TOWNREADING ME at the time, and yet still arguing with me over nonsense? Why?

Ok I will look at that. Looks like something I enjoy doing as scum too

[Metal Sonic]

like, do you think I could be wrong about quil maybe? i'm having a really hard time getting away from that. I see good reasons for both.

ped-t: that is bad.

Mainly cause you can't stfu about lynching yourself

I'm here to help

the world

push quilford

Go get him

[Metal Sonic]

I've established motivation: Why bussing the watch-immune goon was highly unlikely prior to the identification of the Watcher
I've provided evidence: Quilford defending Johnny unnaturally which he would never have done according to his principles of townreading (The importance of analysis and thought process, johnny had shit)
I've established why other suspects are not likely: ETL was responsible for beginning the push onto JF; Mina followed up; Molla was eager to vote scum as well. Patrick was "obvtown" and also interacted with JF strongly in 904. Way more insightful than Quilford had ever show for it #825 and #827

VOTE: quilford

Mina this is a short as it can get

[Metal Sonic]

And I'm pretty sure Zar checked in already Mina

And I guess he's waiting

Point him to #2010

[Metal Sonic]

Zar just flipped.

Help him help us.


Mina please believe in the replacement

[Metal Sonic]

I can't even rant in that thread
Fuck

[Metal Sonic]

Just because I "have an agenda" doesn't mean I am wrong. It's a town agenda ffs I want to win as much as you do

I want you to take my faith in reading ETL cause you say there is at least 1 town in me/ms and we are mutually townreading each other (her more so than me)

Yeah, I'm not saying its a scum agenda, but even if I assume you're town, I doubt the validity of your arguments when you enter the game having already decided who the scum is. Posts like 1841 don't make me want to trust your judgement at all.

There is also at least one townie within me/Quilford. Are you happy to take on faith my read of him? Why is your read different?

Ok, I know you were in Antihero. Take Quilford out of the equation for a second, what do you think of ETL's play in this game? Is she trying to work me out? Her last response to me is pretty much exactly what I expected.

Also, why did the last page or so make you feel a great deal of paranoia about me?

You are doubting the validity of my arguments because of the provenance? That's not even legit and quilford also knows it. How many games have you played with quilford?

My read is different because I see the game with a fresh pair of eyes and break the tinted lens that has been set up slowly throughout the course of the game/d1. Plus, I re evaluate

I'm looking at ETL, trust me. She isn't working with anyone right now which doesn't sit well with me. She doesn't help you to understand quilford scum, she doesn't help me to support the lynching of quilford scum. It's certainly something to look out for

I dunno, probably because if you are scum you win. By stonewalling quilford, if ETL dies today then I die Tmr. If quil dies today and is town then ETL dies tomorrow

[Metal Sonic]

Also, can you talk more about this:

Patrick not considering partner associations. Couldn't be ETL cause ETL pushed JF when there was no scum motivation to.

I am considering associations, which you've obviously seen since you've read up on all of day 3 - and this is one of the things that gives me doubt about ETL being scum. But ultimately, she moved her vote off Johnny and onto Quilford, then wasn't around for the deadline, which is a shame because I think that stretch told us plenty.

I saw it. But quil's only vote on Johnny slot was 2 minutes before deadline. Only vote. When there were 3 people on te wagon and JF death was almost inevitable


Do you think that scum will bus early the watcher immune goon without a dead watched or bus late after the watcher already claimed?

[Metal Sonic]

That's wrong.

Let's make it simple

You/ETL/Patrick are in my lynchability by virtue of being 5p; I rule out myself and Mina

You have the most evidence of scum against you among the 3.

[Metal Sonic]

My homework is to read day 1 ---> 2

That is all that's left. Only 30 pages

[Metal Sonic]

That's mutually exclusive


Also, you think you have more evidence than Patrick for being town?! HA!


No, I dont metadive, ever. Plus, that teen wolf game you linked had so many different nuances from you play here, I don't even know why you tried to link that? I think it was to teach me the importance of reading the game fully, right?

[Metal Sonic]

@ Zor

Mina unvoted

[Metal Sonic]

You are doubting the validity of my arguments because of the provenance? That's not even legit and quilford also knows it. How many games have you played with quilford?

This is my first game with him. Does that mean I can't try and read him? Have you played with him before?

I dunno, probably because if you are scum you win. By stonewalling quilford, if ETL dies today then I die Tmr. If quil dies today and is town then ETL dies tomorrow

This isn't an answer; you declared great paranoia of me immediately after my spat with ETL. I want to know why.

This is my first game with him too. So apart from you having to eat up Day 1(which I argue is the reason for your strong and wrong townread on Quilford), what else makes your read on quilford better than mine?

I have played at least 7 games with ETL.

Yes, it is a result of the spat with ETL. It was a direct result of ETL's points against you, in fact.

[Metal Sonic]

No, I dont metadive, ever.

Of course you don't.

Read a scum game of mine. As Mina said earlier, it's like night and day.

My scumgame is like night and day too.

Doesn't mean I can't wreck town with it.

It's just the damned replacements who make their lynchbait slots into conftown (yes, game's over, I can now bitch about this)

And I'm now a damned replacement. Replacements are the bane of scum. I think team mafia should abolish this rule cause it's unfair to scum. I mean look at how bad Johnny screwed the slot up

[Metal Sonic]

Great. Now I can fucking reference the nightless game.

ZAR, get in here. Help Mina bust this metal.sonic.jr

[Metal Sonic]

You have the most evidence of scum against you among the 3.

Say that's true. I also have the most evidence of town for me among the 3. You're just not letting yourself see it.

Gonna check my meta?

Meta ain't evidence, bro.

You know this.

It's only at most a supporting point.

[Metal Sonic]

My scumgame is like night and day too.

Doesn't mean I can't wreck town with it.

I don't know why youre comparing me to you?

My scumgame is appalling. I legit can't remember the last time I won as scum.

Probably some weird psychology syndrome.


They probably have a name for it.


Whatever, evidence still stands. Frustrating though understandable why Patrick is stonewalling despite all the evidence. May get impatient

[Metal Sonic]

You're making excuses.

Definitely.

Making excuses for not meta diving you.

Point taken.

Will probably continue to make more excuses

[Metal Sonic]

Will promise to read day 1 though. I agree with the sentiment

[Metal Sonic]

I have no rebuttal to metadefense.

I'm not even attacking you via meta. Everything is non meta related. That in itself holds more weight than any meta argument

[Metal Sonic]

The last 3 people that I pushed who use the "read my meta I suck as scum" defense were: Town, Scum, Town



So hmm.


@Mina, expert opinion!

How many games have you played with quilford? How many scumgamez have you seen? How does he treat his partners, busser or no busser in general?

^ quil you do not get to answer. Expert opinions only.

[Metal Sonic]

I've established motivation: Why bussing the watch-immune goon was highly unlikely prior to the identification of the Watcher
I've provided evidence: Quilford defending Johnny unnaturally which he would never have done according to his principles of townreading (The importance of analysis and thought process, johnny had shit)
I've established why other suspects are not likely: ETL was responsible for beginning the push onto JF; Mina followed up; Molla was eager to vote scum as well. Patrick was "obvtown" and also interacted with JF strongly in 904. Way more insightful than Quilford had ever show for it #825 and #827

VOTE: quilford

Mina this is a short as it can get

"Why other suspects are not likely"

[Metal Sonic]

Every1 is a suspect except me

[Metal Sonic]

The biggest issue with quilford is that I haven't been able to figure him out the entire game, and my

whole team

thinks he's scum,

especially after Johnny's scum flip and the way that happened.

since d1, their involvement has gone to nil.

Bullshit detector going off big time.

What do you think about ETL lying about her teammates' involvement?

Elaborate, this is interesting

[Metal Sonic]

Wow, that's a nasty contradiction

You got my attention

[Metal Sonic]

You are blatantly ignoring things—Day 1, my meta—that you think could point to me as town. I don't see how that's anything other than tunnelling.

Hmm, I noticed this:

So you implicitly agree that your post-day 1 play is scummy as fuck?

That's great,

I'll get to reading day 1 within 6 hours!

[Metal Sonic]

I'll get to the ETL contradiction later but I am surprised you didn't see it earlier if you've been reading like you say you have.

I saw it but I didn't make much of it, incidentally. I only looked at it closer when you brought it up.

[Metal Sonic]

So you implicitly agree that your post-day 1 play is scummy as fuck?

No? I think you think my Day 1 play could possibly be town, and are avoiding reading it for that reason.

So you implicitly agree that your post-day 1 play is scummy as fuck?

[Metal Sonic]

So you fully agree that your post-day 1 play can be construed as scummy as fuck?

[Metal Sonic]

Anyway, that's cheeky. I shall reward you.


I've been deconstructing your play from back to front. Mainly because it's easier to argue your associative interactions with flip scum. On Day 1, it's only limited to behavioral tells, which is much more difficult to argue, and not necessarily as accurate (Though I'm pretty accurate!)

[Metal Sonic]

hi etl

i am reading day 1 right now

i am finding some intersting stuff

thanks, quilford!

[Metal Sonic]

you phone posting? talk to me

i too am an attention whore like quil

that is why i can see his scum very easily :^)

[Metal Sonic]

i have successfully completed my read on day 1

[Metal Sonic]

my eyes ache a little

[Metal Sonic]

you phone posting? talk to me

i too am an attention whore like quil

that is why i can see his scum very easily :^)

Again, you're comparing me to you.

I am the opposite of an attention whore as scum.

dont worry

i have more legitimate evidence against you

[Metal Sonic]

let's talk about inconsistency.

this is how quilford treats town:

Spoiler: quilford's respone was actually valid. i thought the same thing.

Titus' BBMolla analysis:

All of Molla's posts up through 147 are fluff and him talking about how he hadn't read the game (a small exception here is a defensive post to Serra).

In 157, I voted Quilford. BBMolla's next post is to throw down a naked vote on me and keep fluffing.

In 183, he quotes Patrick's vote on me and calls Patrick Town without any explanation.

She also doesn't like BBMolla pushing an Alch-Serra team because Serra is the one who accused Molla of having a fake opening in 106.

The only real explanation BBMolla gave for his vote on my was my RVS comment. If he saw it earlier and thought it was scummy, then why did he continue fluff posting?

206 is self-posturing from Molla. His posts up to this point were terrible and I pointed this out. BBMolla implied I was believing his posts to make himself look better.

BB's ISO is full of a baseless push on me and she thinks he doesn't want to read BPC because it would actually have to put effort into reading someone.

249 - BB talks about the game is full of veterans and content, but isn't providing any content of his own.

She also doesn't like BBMolla complaining about nobody talking about him when he hasn't given much to talk about.

273 - BBMolla pegs an Alch-Serra scumteam because my early posts lack direction and an agenda. Town should lack direction and an agenda in the early game.

Next I'll post my personal analysis of Quilford.

HAHAHAH Oh my GOD guys.

Did Alchemist just post a list of summaries of posts in BBmolla's ISO without actually quoting any of BB's actual words at all? Can someone say information instead of analysis?

this is how quilford treats scum:

Spoiler: johnny gets a free pass for equally terrible posts

I don't particularly like the way Espy switches from talking directly to people to talking in general at everyone here.

Why don't you like it?

Next five pages

Enter Patrick. He's a wet blanket. Hooray. His Alch attack looks bad to me, but that could just be coming from my knowledge that he's town.

Alch is broadcasting newbtells on all wavelengths and people are attacking him for it -_- his response to quil was really good too -_- HINDSIGHT

Mina gets kudos for actually looking up Alch's GTKAS, and also continued hunting throughout these pages. Not really alignment indicative, but I'd rather she continued living. Though the weird condescension here makes me think he was a little too willing to lynch a person who was clearly not all the way good at Mafia yet. Meh. I could be convinced to vote Mina.

BB with the same defense I would make. Does right mean town? Then makes a terrible argument. Does wrong mean scum? Basically my problem with this whole minimalistic "vote who I think is right and be difficult about everything else" playstyle is that it makes it really hard for me to think of you as anything but scum when you're so wrong. Hopefully you pick it up in the future.

I can't think of Quil as anything but town thanks to Mina's convincing.

This game is looking fun

Starting at page 15

By the way, can people let me know if I'm spamming too much or walling too much? I'm aware that this is somewhat content-dense for a nine-player game, and I don't want to make this too hard to catch up on.

Honey it's too late.

Patrick's dive into Alch's meta would look good if he had anything to show for it. AND THEN ALCH CORRECTED HIM ON SCUM META JESUS CHRIST WHY DID YOU GUYS *from this point on I will no longer be commenting on how I didn't think Alch was a good lynch unless I find something scummy* His series of posts on 17 read as genuine to me.

Quil's Mina towncase looks like "I agree with him so he's town" which is pretty arrogant.

Espy comes in with a Patrick vote that I actually don't mind.

HOLY SHIT TIRED GOING TO BED REMEMBER PAGE 19

Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch, especially not until BPC gives us something.

All this is to protect the Watch-immune goon when the Tracker is dead and the Watcher is still alive.

Given Quilford's heavy emphasis on "THOUGHT PROCESS" and "CLEAR REASONING" and "ANALYSIS" and "SCUMHUNTING"

it was unbelievable that he closed one eye to johnny's lack of the aforementioned qualities especially when JF was flashed by headlights later by Mina, BBmolla, and ETL simultaneously.




I'm not comparing you to myself quil. I'm comparing yourself to the standards you hold yourself by and have demonstrated throughout this game. You exert rigorous analysis on every player... except JohnnyFarrar.

And I have a very convincing motivation as to why.

[Metal Sonic]

thanks for making me read day 1, quilford

BB's town. Patrick being in first position makes me less inclined to think he's scum,

at least not as much as Quilford or Serra.

So if alch were lynched and flipped town, I'd be looking at those two, with a preference on quil as

my team keeps yelling at me about him.

[Metal Sonic]

Yes you fucking idiot. That's because THE PLAYER WHO I HAD PUT ALL THAT BURDEN OF "THOUGHT PROCESS" AND "CLEAR REASONING" AND "ANALYSIS" AND "SCUMHUNTING" ON AND HAD ABSOLUTELY FAILED ALL THOSE TESTS

FLIPPED TOWN.

AND YOURE EXPECTING ME TO COME IN ON DAY 2, AS IF MY STRONGEST FUCKING SCUMREAD HADN'T JUST FLIPPED TOWN, AND KEEP GOING ON AS USUAL???

HOLY

FUCK

WELL MOTHERFUCKER

WHY DO YOU SUDDENLY SUBJECT EVERY PLAYER TO ALL THAT BURDEN OF "THOUGHT PROCESS" AND "CLEAR REASONING" AND "ANALYSIS" AND "SCUMHUNTING" AFTERWARDS STILL?

IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE

IF IT WAS WRONG ON ONE PLAYER, I CAN'T SEE WHY YOU CAN POSSIBLY GO

I don't like them because a lot of the analysis seems simplistic or belaboured.

[Metal Sonic]

WOW

SHE DID ONE UTTERLY SHITE VCA AND PULLED SOME RANDOM REASONING OUT OF THAT

LIKE 'BEING IN FIRST POSITION ON A WAGON MAKES YOU LESS LIKELY TO BE SCUM'

GREAT

WHO GIVES A FUCK?

ETL ALREADY MENTIONED HER "TEAM IS SCUMREADING QUILFORD" ON DAY 1

YOUR POINT THAT THEY WERE DOING JACK SHIT IS JACK SHIT

[Metal Sonic]

WOW

SHE DID ONE UTTERLY SHITE VCA AND PULLED SOME RANDOM REASONING OUT OF THAT

LIKE 'BEING IN FIRST POSITION ON A WAGON MAKES YOU LESS LIKELY TO BE SCUM'

GREAT

NOW

YOU'RE DISCREDITING ETL'S TEAMMATES READ ON YOU?

BULLSHIT.

THE WHOLE ARGUMENT WAS "etl's was lying about her teammates reads on quilford"

AND I JUST PROVED THAT YOU LOST THE ARGUMENT

[Metal Sonic]

in other more peaceful news,

Mina is conftown.

By the way, I'd feel guilty about starting a flash wagon now.

=20537&user_select[]=0&user_select[]=0&user_sort=Go]Here is serrapaladin in Zar's Holiday Bash.

serrapaladin is scum. No questions. He gets lynched tomorrow.

the first player to scumread scum for no apparent reason is conftown.

[Metal Sonic]

no apparent

scum-motivated

reason

to bus the scum's most prized power role in the given situation

fixed in case a certain person likes to twist words

[Metal Sonic]

Yes you fucking idiot. That's because THE PLAYER WHO I HAD PUT ALL THAT BURDEN OF "THOUGHT PROCESS" AND "CLEAR REASONING" AND "ANALYSIS" AND "SCUMHUNTING" ON AND HAD ABSOLUTELY FAILED ALL THOSE TESTS

FLIPPED TOWN.

AND YOURE EXPECTING ME TO COME IN ON DAY 2, AS IF MY STRONGEST FUCKING SCUMREAD HADN'T JUST FLIPPED TOWN, AND KEEP GOING ON AS USUAL???

HOLY

FUCK

WELL MOTHERFUCKER

WHY DO YOU SUDDENLY SUBJECT EVERY PLAYER TO ALL THAT BURDEN OF "THOUGHT PROCESS" AND "CLEAR REASONING" AND "ANALYSIS" AND "SCUMHUNTING" AFTERWARDS STILL?

Because that's how I scumhunt????? The specific point you made was that I called out Alchemist's shitty case but I didn't call out Johnny's shitty catch-up. That's because the Alchemist flip taught me that shitty posts which contained 95% summary instead of analysis could come from town. So OBVIOUSLY I wasn't about to give Johnny scum points for his catch-up.

OK.

but you didn't bother to read him further

THE BARE MINIMUM OF ATTEMPTS TO GATHER A READ ON HIM AND TO UNDERSTAND HIS THOUGHT PROCESS

lets take a quick look at how much interaction you had with johnny pre-watcher claim:

a GRAND TOTAL OF FOUR

I don't particularly like the way Espy switches from talking directly to people to talking in general at everyone here.

Why don't you like it?

Given that Mina had just accused BPC of 'posting a lot like scum', what more support do you envision ETL needing as scum before beginning to push BPC?

My vote ain't anywhere.

I am in full on waiting mode, yeah. I want stuff from BPC.

Where's your head Quil?

Oh yeah, I'm not answering this right now (or any other questions) because it's 5:50 am and I only woke up coz I needed to pee.

GOODNIGHT

INTERACTING WITH HIM TO GET A TOWNREAD MY ASS

[Metal Sonic]

the first player to scumread scum for no apparent reason is conftown.

Cool, I'll keep that in mind for my future scumgames

oh and vote him. and place suspicion.

yeah. keep that in mind for your future scumgames, lasts you till d5

[Metal Sonic]

That's because the Alchemist flip taught me that shitty posts which contained 95% summary instead of analysis could come from town.

BULLSHIT

Also, therein lies the problem with BBmolla, which is that I get really suspicious of people who can't see him as anything but town because of the fakehammer:

Why not look at his actual fucking scumhunting, which is the number one alignment indicative thing in the entirety of mafia? Because it hasn't been very fucking good. Go back, look at his reasons for scumreading Alchemist, and tell me they even begin to approach good.

I have found various aspects of BB's play town, which is why I have him at null. But people (Patrick, ETL) who are just saying blah blah emotion blah fakehammer need to look a little bit closer, for Christ's sake. Your lack of nuance in your read on him really concerns me, which is precisely not what I want, because it's destroying my previously held townreads on you and, I think, making me think Johnny is townier than he actually is.

The fact that BBmolla's scumhunting isn't factoring into your read is really fucking weird.

That's a lie from you, quilford. You still clearly hung onto the 'SCUMHUNTING IS THE MOST IMPORTANT' regime.

[Metal Sonic]

Because that's how I scumhunt????? The specific point you made was that I called out Alchemist's shitty case but I didn't call out Johnny's shitty catch-up. That's because the Alchemist flip taught me that shitty posts which contained 95% summary instead of analysis could come from town. So OBVIOUSLY I wasn't about to give Johnny scum points for his catch-up.

whoops i didnt quote the full post


thats how you scumhunt my ass

[Metal Sonic]

YOUR POINT THAT THEY WERE DOING JACK SHIT IS JACK SHIT

I haven't been making any points about what ETL's team has or has not been doing. What I have done is point out the many times ETL contradicts herself over when and how they have been engaging with the game.

She is certainly being consistent with her claim that "my teammates think that quil is scum on d1"

"especially after the Johnny flip" could just be an ambiguous miswording.

there is no clear lie here.



ON THE OTHER HAND:
What I have done is point out the scum-motivated preferential treatment that quilford GIVES A FREE PASS TO SCUM WATCH-IMMUNE GOON because WATCHER IS NOT DEAD YET

[Metal Sonic]

Yep. I didn't. I think you'll find that I did not really bother to read many people in depth that Day, because I was arguing with ETL and attempting to lynch BPC/Brian.

Most certainly not. Thanks for finding a convincing excuse to IGNORE the SOLE SLOT YOU HAD AS A NULL READ who just REPLACED IN THE GAME and FLOODING THE GAME WITH CONTENT TO ANALYSE

Let's take a look at what the others have done:

Spoiler: conftown Mina

There's no need to be unpleasant.

Now it's less a question than a comment--my question would have been "where are all the town reads in your catch-up?" But I wanted to see what you'd come up with when you weren't tailoring your posts toward appeasing me. Apparently, your one town read is Quilford. Can you restate why?

I liked serra's replace-out, actually, and frankly wish your contributions blinded me with towniness given you make some decent observations and you're one of the only people playing the game. But I feel as though your catch-up overall was scum-motivated. The vast majority of your observations were:
1) pointing out small reasons of varying quality to call people scummy.
2) complaining about how the one person we've already lynched, Alchemist21, was apparently more town than every single other player in the game except for Quilford. (I've always thought the "chastising players for the lynch" scumtell was overrated, but you're so attuned to every piece of blinding innocence from our top suspect D1, and yet can't see similar signs coming from most living players?)

Most people's reads tend to be more holistic and evolving, as opposed to "here are a bunch of posts justifying why I could vote out 2/3 of the game." (You say, "I could vote this person just so they wouldn't be in LYLO" or "I could be persuaded to vote this person" multiple times as reactions to single posts.) The closest thing to a big-picture read is Patrick, but he's not in your lynchpool not because he's town, but because he hasn't "done anything scummy."

And with all these reasons, your vote is on someone essentially for lurking?

And I almost regret posting this, because it's giving people a case to latch onto instead of doing any of their own scumhunting.

Spoiler: JF's alleged partner

Espy says (don't worry guys this absence has been site wide) and that irks me. Also makes it clear he's doing ISOs in alphabetical order. If small scumreads keep piling up I'm going to vote him just for the pleasure of not dealing with him in a potential lylo situation.

this whole thing is fuckin terrible yo

first of all... what exactly irks you about having a site-wide absence that can be verified? is it the fact that it's not something you can pin on me to push a mislynch?

second, ISOs in alphabetical order... are scummy... how...? that's how people are fucking listed in the drop down box. it's how i've done it for years. suddenly it's a scum point? man.. scraping the bottom of the barrel here, aren't you?

third.... justifying a scum read on "i dont want them in lylo" is as shitty a cop out as it gets.

VOTE: johnnywhatever

Spoiler: Patrick

JohnnyFarrar: I appreciate that you've contributed more so far than serra did for the entire game. Can you talk me through why you're able to make that many scathing comments about my play and somehow have me as the second to bottom on your list? You call me lame and boring several times, you don't like my attack on Alchemist, you think my metadive on him was useless, you don't mind ETLs vote on me, you think I'm posting in a way that doesn't tell you anything about my alignment. You don't seem to mind being abrasive, so why be political about this?

Spoiler: your "top scumread"

Bah.

VOTE: serrapaladin

Clarify your read on serra at this point.

I'm gonna vote Serra too, can we just talk about shit for a bit though?

Who do you think partner would be if Serra is scum Mina?

You too.

Disappointed that was the one kill that didn't make Patrick confirmed town.

Where is this coming from? Did you actually expect Mara not to flip tracker there?

Shos said quil unvoted to prevent frustration hammers and hammered later on the same page.

Yes. I wanted a response from ETL, she was threatening to hammer out of frustration, so I unvoted. Then she answered me, so I hammered (because Mina had voted in the meantime).

I feel like you skipped part of BB's issue here. There was time left in the day and players had said they'd like to make catch-up posts. Why not wait for that at all?

BPC uses a lot of exclamation points and Quil is cutesy, and I want to look into their metas to see if these two things are as pronounced in their town games because psychology blah blah blah

have you done anything on this?

BPC's unhappiness with Mina's townread on my slot seems weird to me, given that BPC wasn't particularly advocating for my scuminess. Simple disdain for others' townreads reads as scum to me.

Why does this read as scum to you?

(I've started skimming old BPC ISOs. Given my extremely limited sample size so far, if there's an alignment-relevant pattern beyond "his tone always sounds scummy to me!", I haven't seen it yet, although I haven't got to the part of his scum games where he's supposed to start lurking.)

How did this searching go? Also, I don't know how you don't notice my lurking in all games here

BPC is so hard to read guys

Thank you

My problem with BPC is lurking in a sense but it's more for the opportunistic time he lurked toward the end of the last day phase. Showing up and being all "yeah I'm down for a Alch lynch" and then taking no initiative beyond that looks like "I'm here but want no accountability" to me.

Yes, I've been lurking. There are a number of personal reasons for it but never-the-less, my feelings towards the lynch yesterday as it was happening was pretty much meh sure. I had a few bits where I pointed out things I took as scummy from alchemist and had been fine with the lynch for the just of the day. If I were in the game more at that point, I would have been fine hammering.

(leaving aside I don't think BPC and I make much sense as a scumteam, anyway).

Yes, this. I don't understand where patrick is coming from with that and that;s about the first time this game he's said something questionable. I'm chalking it up to half assed read coming back but I would like to hear more on this.

Spoiler: bbmolla

I'm honestly pretty okay with either a BPC/Johnny lynch

The Johnny read is a lot because I dislike his read on me because it reads as "Look at all this stuff that indicates this player is a bad player, so he must be scum"

I actually might lean BPC a bit more, because BPC seems kind of robotic.

Example of when I called your bad play scummy?

7) JF, read on BBmolla. Explanation for why it's not a town read on BBmolla. Go!

My read is "This man ain't said anything useful, and now that he was so wrong on day one everyone's ok with him barely posting anything on day 2 because he's sad or something." I've seen nothing even close to content come from him (much less anything townie), and unlike Patrick he doesn't even seem to be playing to win.

Why is he town?

Did I say that was scummy at any point during that? Or are you one if those people who thinks null tells don't exist?

I don't find it fathomable that anyone can have a null read on me at this point

like wtf

Well start contributing and I'll start reading you like a grown up

"I post a lot which means I contribute a lot. There's no way that someone could be conflicted between thinking I'm scum who faked being super confident on a shitty town wagon and using that as an excuse to stop posting when he flipped townie and thinking I'm just town who's clearly either too busy or too bad to be playing this game." - BBmolla 2015

is being an ass hole a town tell for him or something

Spoiler: fantastic "demoralised town" quilford

a GRAND TOTAL OF FOUR

I don't particularly like the way Espy switches from talking directly to people to talking in general at everyone here.

Why don't you like it?

Given that Mina had just accused BPC of 'posting a lot like scum', what more support do you envision ETL needing as scum before beginning to push BPC?

My vote ain't anywhere.

I am in full on waiting mode, yeah. I want stuff from BPC.

Where's your head Quil?

Oh yeah, I'm not answering this right now (or any other questions) because it's 5:50 am and I only woke up coz I needed to pee.

GOODNIGHT

so most certainly "I WAS TOO BUSY SORTING ETL AND BPC TO BOTHER ANALYSING AND GETTING A TOWNREAD ON A FUCKING NULLSLOT WHICH HAD 9 POSTS"

from those 9 posts, MINA HIT BULLS-EYE SCUM

[Metal Sonic]

What happened to 'that's a nasty contradiction, you have my attention'?

well, yeah I got on a computer before you gave me an answer

you never really gave me an answer. just a bunch of quotes which I had to make out the meaning myself.

[Metal Sonic]

honestly, i don't believe vca either

but carry on

[Metal Sonic]

Cool. I don't know if you've noticed, but the username attached to all the posts with the catbug avatar is not "Mina", and therefore you shouldn't be expecting it to find scummy the same things that Mina is finding scummy.

FANTASTIC MISINTEPRETATION

what i'm saying

that through serra's meagre 9 posts

it was ENOUGH for MINA TO CATCH SERRA SCUM


I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT QUILFORD TOWN WOULD AVOID ANALYSING AND GETTING A READ ON JOHNNY DURING THE FOLLOWING CIRCUMSTANCES:

1) Johnny's posts violate ALL of quilford's maxims that he had been holding others by for the entirety of the game
2) mina, molla, etl shined headlights onto the shiny thing that is JF's catchup posts
3) A REPLACEMENT JUST CAME INTO A SLOT WHICH WAS EITHER SCUMMY AS FUCK OR NULL AS FUCK with 9 posts. CERTAINLY SOME ANALYSIS OF HIS ENTRY POSTS WERE IN ORDER.

and we get these superior analysis from "scumhunting is #1 for determining alignment" quilford

Spoiler: these are fantastic reasons to townread someone

Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch, especially not until BPC gives us something.

Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch, especially not until BPC gives us something.

Can you explain why (to the first part, not the last part)?

I like his assertive responses to my questions.

Johnny for town imo

[Metal Sonic]

"especially after the Johnny flip" could just be an ambiguous miswording.

It was my reasoning.

It was my reasoning.

It was my reasoning.

It was my reasoning.

exactly. you tacked it on there becausse it was your reasoning. the "my teammates were scumreading quil" was a separate clause.

no thanks to your shitty wording, quil has some ammo to shoot you with.

thank you savior metal sonic

[Metal Sonic]

Not to mention that if it was an ambiguous miswording she would have said so on one of the other two times I pulled her up on it. So don't try and invent some bullshit now.

Ho-ly shit.

I HAVE.

EVERY TIME.

why dont you help yourself help me by requoting those posts to shut quilford up

im busy looking for more pertinent things

[Metal Sonic]

What you are saying is 'why didn't you vote Johnny for his bad catchup if you voted Alchemist for his bad cases, because they were both summary instead of analysis?'

WRONG.

you never expressed discontent or nervousness with regard to his posts

you never once expressed "hey! this guy isn't scumhunting, but I may be wrong"

you never clarified further or 1v1'd with JF, which you should have done, to ease your if-you-were-town paranoia on him

there are so many questions that I would have asked JF if I were put in that scenario as town.

considering that you came up with the same questions when bombarding alchemist

i was pretty surprised you didn't have the same thoughts when JF came in

zero. zilch. nada. "oh he's town. because he's assertive. LOL"

[Metal Sonic]

NONONONONONO

LET'S SEE HOW QUILFORD THOUGHT'S PROCESS ON TOWN:

Why has NO ONE commented on what MS's posts say about his alignment?

Euuurgh. It's hard.

- I like them because there are a

lot

of them. Like, we just had a posting marathon. I'm not sure scum could put in such sustained effort.
- I like them because his thought process is clearly visible across all of them.
- I don't like them because a lot of the analysis seems simplistic or belaboured.
- I don't like them because he doesn't seem open to rereading the game or reconsidering his reads.

LET'S SEE HOW QUILFORD HAS HIS THOUGHT PROCESS ON SCUM

Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch, especially not until BPC gives us something.

Can you explain why (to the first part, not the last part)?

I like his assertive responses to my questions.

[Metal Sonic]

its SO easy to call town town, quil

its difficult to push town as scum

and it's even more painful when you have to call someone that you know is scum, and would read him as scum if you were town, town

[Metal Sonic]

You are doubting the validity of my arguments because of the provenance? That's not even legit and quilford also knows it. How many games have you played with quilford?

This is my first game with him. Does that mean I can't try and read him? Have you played with him before?

I dunno, probably because if you are scum you win. By stonewalling quilford, if ETL dies today then I die Tmr. If quil dies today and is town then ETL dies tomorrow

This isn't an answer; you declared great paranoia of me immediately after my spat with ETL. I want to know why.

This is my first game with him too. So apart from you having to eat up Day 1(which I argue is the reason for your strong and wrong townread on Quilford), what else makes your read on quilford better than mine?

I have played at least 7 games with ETL.

Yes, it is a result of the spat with ETL. It was a direct result of ETL's points against you, in fact.

Patrick, I have responded to you more than 12 hours ago on phone.

If you require clarification, ask me quick before i go to bed

[Metal Sonic]

Can you just not comprehend the concept that Johnny was not on my radar?

HAHA, NOPE!

NOT WHEN

1) YOU HAD A NULL READ ON HIM PREVIOUSLY
2) NEW ANALYZABLE CONTENT WAS COMING IN BY THE TRUCKLOAD
3) HIS SCUMMY POSTS WOULD HAVE CAUGHT YOUR ATTENTION LIKE AN ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM

NO WAY.

you're ignoring him cause you were scum. and focusing on town. but that's a different argument altogether

[Metal Sonic]

LET'S SEE HOW QUILFORD HAS HIS THOUGHT PROCESS ON SCUM

(n = 1)

EBWOP:

LET'S SEE HOW QUILFORD DISPLAYS HIS "THOUGHT PROCESS" ON SCUM

[Metal Sonic]

its difficult to push town as scum

Really? Because if I am scum, I seemed to have no trouble with it with Alchemist on D1 or with BPC on D2.

Really? Because that wasn't the punchline of my post.

Also, you appear to be having major trouble with ETL over here. Alchemist was easy, I got him lynched as scum in my game too.

[Metal Sonic]

I've already said ten thousand times that I ignored his catch-up posts, which were summaries instead of analysis, which is scummy, because Alchemist produced tonnes of summary instead of analysis on Day 1, I thought he was really really scummy because of it, and he flipped town. So I wasn't inclined to pursue that tell again so soon.

"I liked his assertiveness"

OH PLEASE

THERE WERE A MILLION AND ONE THINGS YOU COULD HAVE SAID

YOU HAD TO CHOOSE ONLY ONE. THE WRONG ONE.

WHERE IS "But, I don't like his summaries, though I was wrong on Alchemist so I'm not too sure"
WHERE IS "He hasn't been scumhunting, but I'm waiting for BPC"
WHERE IS "His analysis is sorely lacking, but I'd let that slide"
WHERE IS "He's scummy as fuck but i was wrong so don't trust me"



YOUR ATTITUDE FROM THAT POST IS EXTREMELY SIGNIFICANT, QUILFORD

AND IT STRONGLY IMPLIES SCUM

[Metal Sonic]

Cool. I don't know if you've noticed, but the username attached to all the posts with the catbug avatar is not "Mina", and therefore you shouldn't be expecting it to find scummy the same things that Mina is finding scummy.

FANTASTIC MISINTEPRETATION

what i'm saying

that through serra's meagre 9 posts

it was ENOUGH for MINA TO CATCH SERRA SCUM


I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT QUILFORD TOWN WOULD AVOID ANALYSING AND GETTING A READ ON JOHNNY DURING THE FOLLOWING CIRCUMSTANCES:

1) Johnny's posts violate ALL of quilford's maxims that he had been holding others by for the entirety of the game
2) mina, molla, etl shined headlights onto the shiny thing that is JF's catchup posts
3) A REPLACEMENT JUST CAME INTO A SLOT WHICH WAS EITHER SCUMMY AS FUCK OR NULL AS FUCK with 9 posts. CERTAINLY SOME ANALYSIS OF HIS ENTRY POSTS WERE IN ORDER.

and we get these superior analysis from "scumhunting is #1 for determining alignment" quilford

Spoiler: these are fantastic reasons to townread someone

Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch, especially not until BPC gives us something.

Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch, especially not until BPC gives us something.

Can you explain why (to the first part, not the last part)?

I like his assertive responses to my questions.

Johnny for town imo

i REPEAT

[Metal Sonic]

That's because the Alchemist flip taught me that shitty posts which contained 95% summary instead of analysis could come from town.

BULLSHIT

Also, therein lies the problem with BBmolla, which is that I get really suspicious of people who can't see him as anything but town because of the fakehammer:

Why not look at his actual fucking scumhunting, which is the number one alignment indicative thing in the entirety of mafia? Because it hasn't been very fucking good. Go back, look at his reasons for scumreading Alchemist, and tell me they even begin to approach good.

I have found various aspects of BB's play town, which is why I have him at null. But people (Patrick, ETL) who are just saying blah blah emotion blah fakehammer need to look a little bit closer, for Christ's sake. Your lack of nuance in your read on him really concerns me, which is precisely not what I want, because it's destroying my previously held townreads on you and, I think, making me think Johnny is townier than he actually is.

The fact that BBmolla's scumhunting isn't factoring into your read is really fucking weird.

That's a lie from you, quilford. You still clearly hung onto the 'SCUMHUNTING IS THE MOST IMPORTANT' regime.

"I'm deeply concerned that Johnny's posts contain no scumhunting at all. But that tell didn't work out for Alchemist, so I guess he's town"

NOPE

"i like his assertiveness LOL"

LOL

[Metal Sonic]

mina

i want to call a lifeline

get zar,

[Metal Sonic]

The last 3 people that I pushed who use the "read my meta I suck as scum" defense were: Town, Scum, Town



So hmm.


@Mina, expert opinion!

How many games have you played with quilford? How many scumgamez have you seen? How does he treat his partners, busser or no busser in general?

^ quil you do not get to answer. Expert opinions only.

[Metal Sonic]

I might be just talking to talk. But Quilford:

1) Can you elaborate on "assertive responses to your question"? Not sure I see what you mean.

He was very forthright in response to me in #826 and #828. Strikes me as town. I think scum would've been more weaselly.

You know what's funny?

I dislike JF's catchup because it had like no questions.
But I also dislike BPC's catchup because it was nothing but questions.

Hey Metal Sonic, you're ignoring these posts in which I say more substantive things about Johnny.

But I really am going to bed. Unless Mina wants me. Which she probably doesn't.

Oh yeah, I forgot about those. the assertiveness one was the funniest though.

"he was very forthright in response to me"

"scum would have been more weaselly"

"I dislike his catchup because it has no questions"

you garner all this from a grand total of 2 questions

"I dislike his catchup because it has no questions" <------- i dont think this will be the only reason town-quilford will dislike a JF post. more likely especially when you implicate BPC-town below.

[Metal Sonic]

I might be just talking to talk. But Quilford:

1) Can you elaborate on "assertive responses to your question"? Not sure I see what you mean.

He was very forthright in response to me in #826 and #828. Strikes me as town. I think scum would've been more weaselly.

You know what's funny?

I dislike JF's catchup because it had like no questions.
But I also dislike BPC's catchup because it was nothing but questions.

Hey Metal Sonic, you're ignoring these posts in which I say more substantive things about Johnny.

But I really am going to bed. Unless Mina wants me. Which she probably doesn't.

well you're a special snowflake so i just spent 2 hours wrecking you with rock solid evidence <3

[Metal Sonic]

we'll see how wrecked I am when we lynch ETL and then you see that I was town all along post-game <3

no,

i'll see how wrecked I am when we lynch you then I was either embarrassingly wrong or geniusly right <3

[Metal Sonic]

I was either embarrassingly wrong or geniusly right <3

EBWOP:
I will be either embarrassingly wrong or geniusly right <3

[Metal Sonic]

if nothing else, I think you will learn some very important lessons about how to be a good replacement, and the importance of behavioural tells and meta over relational tells <3

if nothing else, I think you will experience how replacements ruin the game for scum after they conftown their slot then proceed to pinch off the single scum that has been hiding in the townblock for so long

then join me on the petition of not allowing replacements in team mafia 2016 <3

[Metal Sonic]

the importance of

behavioural tells and

meta over relational tells

the importance of meta over relational tells

[Metal Sonic]

if nothing else, I think you will learn some very important lessons about how to be a good replacement, and the importance of behavioural tells and meta over relational tells <3

if nothing else, I think you will experience how replacements ruin the game for scum after they conftown their slot then proceed to pinch off the single scum that has been hiding in the townblock for so long

then join me on the petition of not allowing replacements in team mafia 2016 <3

being town, no, I dont think I will <3

being scum, yes, I know in your heart that you will <3

[Metal Sonic]

youre right. what I meant is that you should be using relational tells in conjunction with behavioural tells and meta, not on their own. as Mina says, there's always one town in a game who happens to have terrible interactions with the scum <3

you're right.

and i've caught you based on relational tells in addition to behavioural tells. 2/3 of the triforce.

already checkmated you entirely in terms on in-game behavior

once i step into your meta, thats the end of you... depending on how much goodies i find.

there's always one town in a game who happens to have terrible interactions with the scum, and that town was Alchemist <3

[Metal Sonic]

I'm not bullshitting

tl;dr: It's probably still serra-Alchemist!

[Metal Sonic]

I think it's Serra/Alch

I think Mara is off with her reads.

[Metal Sonic]

yep yep. i look forward to you learning some painful lessons post-game <3

thats what i said to ooba and it bought me 3 days. would've won me the game too

we dont have 3 days

[Metal Sonic]

ya

it could have been summarized by "quil is scum vote him"

quil wanted me to case him though


w.r.t. to your question, i dont think molla had a very healthy view of the gamestate. he was townreading quil, etl, literally everybody. i will ask though, just in case he has smth to share that he didnt post here

[Metal Sonic]

going in deep~~

[Metal Sonic]

get down! unghhhh casing you feels so goooooood

[Metal Sonic]

BoPing me, really confidently clearing me,

whats BoP?

your initial push on serra was conftown. confidently clearing you here.

FUCK THE NIGHTLESS DOES HE THINK I WOULD PLAY IN A SHIT SOLUTION LIKE THAT AGAIN?


I AM BEING A FUCKING OOBAHERO HERE. GET QUILFORD

[Metal Sonic]

Metal Sonic did something similar in the Nightless FUCK THE FUCKING NIGHTLESS WITH A FUCKING RUSTY POKER ahem, sorry, Pavlovian reaction

FUCK THE FUCKING NIGHTLESS WITH A FUCKING RUSTY POKER

aye yeah.

[Metal Sonic]

"OH, QUILFORD IS SO SO SO SO SO SO SCUM...but hmm, that's an INTERESTING point about ETL/Patrick."

tell zar

that

this are the thoughts of ooba/zzzx/mollie at 4p.

ZAR IS SO SO SO SO SO SO SCUM... but hmm maybe zzzzx is scum

i want zarrrr

[Metal Sonic]

mina, you really are going to be nightkilled

its kind of obvious.


no, really. really.

if quil NK me I LOL