Twin Trap (Game Over) [TM2015]
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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I pmed my replacement request to zoraster 12 hours ago but it only just got approved.
I am here.
My goal is to to what Molla lacked the strength to accomplish: string Quilford up.-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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quil you're screwed
my spamposting beats yours
my scumgame beats yours
my walls beats yours
you're going down-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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@Everyone
I actually haven't been too 100% caught up with the game. Only briefly looking at parts whenever molla asked me for help. So this is like a movie and I've been sleeping through it 60% of the time.
Still cognizant enough to know who the bad guy is-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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in day 1 i thought alchey was townish! and quilford was a skeevy scumbag. but i wasnt so caught up in the game and was busy with my own so i didnt assert myself onto molla
turns out i was right about alchey
probably the same about quil
there a lot of evidence against him
this setup DOES NOT favor bussing at all. so yea, the 2 scums will be pretty close knit tight family-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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i think brian claimed watcher but i didnt actually ~see~ his claim
thats how aware i am about the gamestate, briefly know the gist of it but 0 details
good news is, i am a fresh pair of eyes
i see through quil's bullshit. probably a strong d1 play but got sloppy after. i think a 3rd party observer would likely arrive at him scum as well-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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In post 1815, Mina wrote:"my scumgame beats yours"
Uhhhhhhhh...do you see the issue with this statement?
Also, please don't spampost. Please. Please.Pleasedon't spampost.
nope. is it rulebreaking or something? zoraster will kill me. so will you, you're the newbie IC-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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In post 1815, Mina wrote:Please don't spampost.
take a quick look at these:
In post 1121, Quilford wrote:In post 1098, Mina wrote:Also, why does everyone in the game have teammates who suspect Quilford?
Its coz their teammates are bad. even urs
In post 1125, Quilford wrote:Urrrrghhhh
In post 1127, Quilford wrote:dat patronising
In post 1130, Quilford wrote:(Psst try reading next time)
In post 1133, Quilford wrote:Looooooooooool
Maybe you can read the posts that literally fucking followed it you idiot
In post 1150, Quilford wrote:God, I am SO, SO done with this game. See you all in 48 hours
In post 1171, Quilford wrote:Wait what the crap, the deadline is in 2 days?
SPAM. POSTING.-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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In post 1819, Quilford wrote:In post 1816, Quilford wrote:Hey Mina can we lynch ETL? Then I'll nightkill Metal Sonic and well have a fun little lylo
It'll just be you and me and Patrick. Woudlnt that be nice
that would be nice
xcept thats 2 dead townies wanting you dead-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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see the problem scum have here, is that molla's repalce out was super town. he was calling every1 town and being a desperate townie who has no idea who is scum. 99% of the time, scum would potshot everyone and infuse paranoia into all players ~anyone could be scum~. molla went ~every1 looks town idk what to do~
sadly for you quil, i'm out of the mislynch table. you're going to have to kill me.-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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In post 1822, Mina wrote:@MS: I read it as a scumslip ("you're going down because I'm so good at scum!"), but in retrospect, that's a bit TOO blatant.
you misintepret.
i just died in my game. take 1 minute to do a bit of research.
i know how to play scum, and i noticed that quilford's style is strikingly similar to mine. i know my weaknesses, and i know how to crack someone like quilford. what to look for. what is a scumtell. and what is bullshit that i should dig up if i am town.
maybe quilford's style isnt similar to mine at all. it's like "hey, this random person looks a lot like X!"
but yeah. drawing similarities here, and working on them to break him down-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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In post 1824, Quilford wrote:
If you've scumread me since day 1 but yet have only the gist of the general game state and history and no detail, then I think its proooobably a safe bet to say that you're conf biased to hell.
could be. except my other 2 teammates came up with you-scum independently. call that adding up to conf-bias however you want; call ETL agreeing with me independently conf-bias too; call his teammates wrong at the same time TOO conf bias
i'm out of the mislynch table. your only target today is ETL.
i concede that ETL's scumgame is fucking good. i concede that there is a possibility that you are town, etl is town, and that patrick could secretly be scum.
but evidence points towards you. alarmingly.-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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you probably shouldn't bet on mina misreading you to secure your endgame. human behavior is disgustingly unpredictable. your game will be ruined.
you have to kill mina if you mislynch today.-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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In post 1827, Metal Sonic wrote:you have to kill mina if you mislynch today.
EBWOP: successfully pull a mislynch today-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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Who flipped scum again? Johnny eh. Correct me if I'm wrong, but he got flashlynched only a few hours before deadline? That's going to throw the scum WAY OFF. look who's more flustered if it's not quilford!
i'm taking a quick look between VC #1287 and the d2 lynch now.-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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Mina, your teammates are one of the strongest teams in Team Mafia.
refresh me a bit, what were their latest reads and updates on this game?-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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In post 1830, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:ms you glorious man. you are one of only a few to catch my scum game early. scared the fuck out of me in that last game where I was with AP as GGscum with Guyett and flubber.
yea bro. but i backed out >____________<-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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*i am aware that you are a female-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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In post 1832, Metal Sonic wrote:In post 1830, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:ms you glorious man. you are one of only a few to catch my scum game early. scared the fuck out of me in that last game where I was with AP as GGscum with Guyett and flubber.
yea bro. but i backed out >____________<
you disarmed me, i got on the wrong path and got lynched day 1, then you proceeded to CARRY THE GAME
holy wow. i mean town was BAD but STILL.-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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In post 1128, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:VCA is a valid tool and can be effective when used correctly. The people who sneer at it are the ones who don't know how to use it. CES can go fuck himself. Trying to say VCA is hogwash just to invalidate my analysis is scummy as fuck.
this comes from town-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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byebye quil
In post 1301, Quilford wrote:VOTE: ETL
If she doesn't check in before deadline she needs to be the one lynched. I think she stands a good chance of being scum anyway and even if not I think LYLO will be a lot easier to negotiate without her.
If she does check in then there are the votes required to lynch JF anyway.
But I'll be sticking around until deadline.
>this is 1.5 hrs before johnny lynch
In post 958, Quilford wrote:Johnny for town imo
^ridiculous
In post 872, Quilford wrote:Not a super big fan of the Johnny lynch, especially not until BPC gives us something.
^yeah, no
no
VOTE: quil-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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i have a fantastic idea
we lynch quil today
then we lynch ETL tomorrow
since, y'know, i'm obvtown, mina is obvtown,, and quil is obvscum who wants to survive but cant push molla's mislynch anymore~
can't deny that i have paranoia of etl. her scumgame is godly. i can break her, but she successfully disarmed me once, so i wouldn't put it past-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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In post 1842, Patrick wrote:It didn't stand out to me as roflscummy, but I can see what you're getting at, Quilford.
looks like a reach out to me. what exactly is quilford implying? spell out your analysis.-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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In post 1845, Quilford wrote:'Spell out your analysis'
Coming from a guy whose latest attempts at analysis were 'this comes from town', 'ridiculous', and 'yeah no'
oh dear me teach me how to analyse senpai-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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i dont think they were attempt at analysis
it was finding evidence and drawing conclusions, skipping the analysis
did you think they were attempts at analysis?-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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btw the only player i know in this playerlist is ETL,
so do forgive me if i show her a bit more favouritism
all of you are cool people though. even you quil.-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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In post 1849, Patrick wrote:It's bad but I feel almost no motivation to engage Metal Sonic or try to analyse his posts.
It seems like they just agreed he'd replace in to bring more energy and motivation than bbmolla could to that slot. If it's town I'm guessing Sonic just pushed for it so he could indulge his burning Quilford suspicion. If scum at least it lets that slot wriggle.
Pedit like a hundred times: MS, it's obvious that you came in with the clear intention of voting Quilford and calling him scum. Just cherrypicking a few posts that can be made to look bad doesn't do anything.
mmm yeah. a secondary motivation was to remove molla's mislynch from the table. i know how easily he can be a target when he does that confused thing. also, mina + quil + (perhaps you? idr.) taking potshots at him would be actually helping scum.
but really. i think you're townreading quil because of d1 play, which helps him a lot. you can say that i'm confbiasing, but aren't you doing so yourself by stubbornly believing that he's town as well?
what do your teammates think?-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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In post 1852, Patrick wrote:MS wrote:so do forgive me if i show her a bit more favouritism
I don't plan of forgiving this, fyi.
:[ that's unfortunate.
oh well.
i don't know any of the members of your team either, but i am willing to work with you because there is a decent chance that you're town
i have to leave real soon.-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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ccool, all the 4 of you have checked in already. like i've interacted with everyone within 1 h of my replace in.
that is good. i'll talk to you all in 9 hours because ~sleep~-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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In post 1789, Mina wrote:You realize that if you're town, then it's a LYLO between Molla, Quilford, and me/Patrick, both of whom suspect Molla more than Quilford, right?
i've solved this problem.
mina, repeating this: let me know your team's input. they're very valuable.
logging out now, bye guys.-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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In post 1857, Patrick wrote:My team thinks he's town. I'm not town-reading Quilford for his day 1 play, as a quick look at my posts today will tell you. And maybe I am conf-biasing a bit, but I actually gave his play quite alot of scrutiny because two other players today voted him and Mina expressed her doubts as well, not to mention the teams of the people involved. I looked at his play yesterday, his interactions with scum to try and see if there might be a connection. I don't feel like there is. I asked for feedback but got little, only really Mina saying she kinda agrees but that Regfan kinda disagrees.
I also asked Mina for detail on why she was paranoid, and have asked ETL several times to engage on her Quilford points, which as it stands don't make sense. She just ignored me, despite saying she was open to explaining them to anyone not named Quilford. Although I've seen her as possibly just pain in the arse stubborn town for much of the game, I feel like she's just so evasive and so unhelpful that it looks deliberate at this point. If Quilford is scum and wins I'll be gutted and take it on the chin as being my fault, but I'll also be pissed at ETL and bbmolla for being so fucking useless today and not trying to convince me.
I agree about asking for Mina's team input. But really I'd just like to see anything from her thats more than just popping in.
@ Patrick
I'm responsible for my team. I'll make it up on behalf on molla. Phoneposting now. Gonna go to bed.
I understand what you mean about ETL. I'll inspect closely later, cause I think her "lynch me" stuff doesn't sit too well with me; but quilford dying today and ETL dying tomorrow is my current path that I'm looking at-
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In post 1877, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:In post 1876, Patrick wrote:If you have no doubt that Quilford is scum, lynching you is a horrible scenario because I'm not inclined to lynch Quilford tomorrow if I'm alive and Mina doesn't sound like she is either. That's what I'm getting at when I say that your offer to be lynched makes no sense.
It makes sense to me. Explain this further please. I don't understand why you wouldn't consider quil? That is what makes no sense to me. That seems incredibly foolish.
Consider the scenario. Lynch me today, I flip town. You then lose either MS or Mina, giving you the following possible LYLO compositions:
Mina/Patrick/Quil
MS/Patrick/Quil
If you are already saying that you are not inclined to lynch Quil, despite him pushing a bad mislynch with nonsense, despite shying away from lynching serra/Johnny... Then who? Logically, you'd need to look at Mina or MS, depending on who remained after the NK. It literally makes no sense that you would remove quil from your pool. Please explain that.
How is Mina/ me making a choice between Patrick / quil a remotely good scenario?
The only bad thing that can happen is if quil is town and I haE to choose between you/Patrick.-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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Like
I'm already pushing quil stronger than you
I don't know what you're bitching about
It's weird-
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In post 1863, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:i have no doubt lynching quil will end the game. however, the point i am trying to make in advocating my lynch today is strictly strategic - you need to understand this.
removing me from the game pre-lylo means in lylo, considering one of you or mina die tonight, that leaves only quil/patrick to choose from. that is a MUCH better choice than trying to decide between me/patrick,specifically because ofinherent paranoia about my play.
there is no better selection. does that make sense?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
So if Patrick's is scum magically:
You are seriously positing that:
Quil/Patrick is easier than ETL/Patrick
Nononononono
If Patrick is scum we are certainly fucked-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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Your whole lynch me things makes me want to just lynch you. Pun not intended-
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In post 1880, Patrick wrote:I feel like I've made it obvious pretty much forever now that I think Mina and Quilford are town and that the last scum is you or bbmolla (now MS).
I wouldn't vote immediately in any endgame because its a terrible idea, but if faced with a choice between Quilford and MS, it would take alot to get me to vote Quilford.
My point being that in a scenario where you're town who's sure Quilford is scum, that's a pretty terrible situation to acquiesce to. Are you saying you didn't have a clear idea what my suspicions were from my posts then?
It's ok man. I am the very definition of "alot". I want quilford down and I want him DOWN TODAY.-
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ETL you need to explain how the fuck is "lynching me to clear paranoia!" A good idea if Quilford is getting lynched today and if you die it makes it a Patrick/quil/ me scenario
I still need to choose Patrick or quil, and Patrick * might* make the fatal knee jerk decision to vote me which um... Is fatal
In the event of which quil dies today, I need to choose between Patrick/ETL, well if Patrick is scum he won cuz I probably will vote you, but it's less fuckery than quilford living scenario-
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In post 1873, Quilford wrote:ooh and then the appeal to self-meta undercut by the failure to take into consideration the meta of the one she thinks is scum. truly... extraordinary
A+ potshot
I know one when I see one, damn I did that a LOT
VOTE: quil-
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In post 1889, EspeciallyTheLies wrote:In post 1887, Metal Sonic wrote:In the event of which quil dies today, I need to choose between Patrick/ETL, well if Patrick is scum he won cuz I probably will vote you, but it's less fuckery than quilford living scenario
this is why I need to go today ms. I'm town and I will not allow this in LYLO.
i dont get it...
you want to be lynched because of the 5% that patrick is scum
isnt it worse in a situation with MS/Quil/Patrick?-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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like seriously patrick might brain fart and vote me instead of quil (if he's town)
and i dont think quil can be trusted anywhere-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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you want to get lynched because {in case quil is town, we have a chance!}
but ummmmmmmm
that doesnt work-
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In post 969, JohnnyFarrar wrote:That's a false dichotomy if I've ever seen one. I've already said that I came into this game looking to pick holes in people, and BB getting town reads left and right is fucking baffling. I don't know what his alignment is because he hasn't done anything in this game to really tell me what his alignment is. The things I know are:
1. He's put forth more emotion than content
2. If he's town he's bad at it
3. If he's scum he's winning
See my problem with the slot? It's not a scumread, but it's definitely not a townread. So how 'bout this, anyone who has any read on him whatsoever, tell me what and why, and until then I'll just be stating lovingly into his eyes waiting for him to actually do something.
this is a very interesting waffle. way to hedge. he's certainly not describing a partner,-
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go ahead,
i request that your questions are not loaded.-
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#12 is dramatic irony
All right, ETL's attitude appears to be inquiring and provocative.
In #14, he was playing along by asking Mara "Why do you want to skip RVS?", which in itself is a probing question and an action of also skipping RVS. So in a way ETL is helping Mara to skip RVS by asking for her thoughts.
#23 was a response to Mina, because Mina somehow misreads ETL's intention as not wanting to skip RVS? Which justifies ETL's response, because ETL herself is already making an effort to skip RVS by asking that question. So, um, Mina misread and ETL corrected her, nothing much to see there.
The exchange between Mara and ETL seems to be an action in itself of breaking RVS. ETL is clearly playing along by asking questions to get responses and understand Mara's thought process. So she appears to be trying to figure out the game.-
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it's not alignment indicative insomuch that ETL is capable of faking that exchange
but you asked for attitude, so~-
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In post 1901, Quilford wrote:You get a B. Not enough talking about attitude outside of the second sentence.
It's difficult when the sample extracts consist of 4 posts with only 1 or 2 sentences each. But fair enough.
Interesting that ETL was locked onto Mara and pummelling her with weak shots.
#49 suggests that ETL thought that Mara was initially scumreading ETL but later changed her read to Town. Or at least that's what ETL intepreted. "already" suggests a lapse in time and some form of surprise; ETL was probably on alert that mara's tone switched so fast.
#52 Yup, hit the bull's eye. It seems like ETL was going "Mara disengaged so fast? That's suspicious.", which also explains why ETL pursued mara for a bit with regard to that lead. With regard to "checking", I doubt that ETL actually went to check, it was probably a pressure warning to Mara because she suddenly disengaged from ETL which might have been a form of appeasement.
#58 suggests that ETL was suspicious of Mara; nothing much here. She's continuing on her pursuit
#66 is ironic in the fact that ETL similarly disengaged from Mara as how Mara did earlier. The vote change to BBMolla was unexplained and a continuation of RVS which Mara and ETL attempted to avoid in the earlier exchange.
#76 is a weak explanation of thought process; though she highlighted it as such. "Most people don't lie, so people who lie might be more able to slip through!" though weak in general, was a fair reason to posit voting someone during the RVS stage. ETL has already highlighted her own actions as such and thus explained her unvote on mara.
I think the post that sticks out the most throughout the discussion is #66, because both Mara and ETL mutually disengaged. Furthermore ETL went back to RVS onto Molla which felt rather lazy.-
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I gotta go, so leave any more questions here-
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I'm not sure what you're asking.
#48 suggests a shift in stance towards ETL and possibly considering that she might be town. "Do you think her being kneejerky is indicative of etlscum?" The question of what indicates etlscum suggests doubt and uncertainty in her etl scumread.-
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In post 1910, Quilford wrote:In post 1904, Metal Sonic wrote:#66 is ironic in the fact that ETL similarly disengaged from Mara as how Mara did earlier. The vote change to BBMolla was unexplained and a continuation of RVS which Mara and ETL attempted to avoid in the earlier exchange.
Oooooohhhh, nice. I hasn't even thought of that myself ahaha. The irony I was thinking of was that ETL was like 'scum could lie about their methods because most people wouldn't dive through their meta' and then didn't end up going through and checking Mara's meta after all, not even when she came to think Mara was scum later on.
The real irony was in #12
"Let's catch all the scumfucks"
None found
I'm on phone and left my com so I will answer the qs later-
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In post 1910, Quilford wrote:In post 1904, Metal Sonic wrote:#66 is ironic in the fact that ETL similarly disengaged from Mara as how Mara did earlier. The vote change to BBMolla was unexplained and a continuation of RVS which Mara and ETL attempted to avoid in the earlier exchange.
Oooooohhhh, nice. I hasn't even thought of that myself ahaha. The irony I was thinking of was that ETL was like 'scum could lie about their methods because most people wouldn't dive through their meta' and then didn't end up going through and checking Mara's meta after all, not even when she came to think Mara was scum later on.
And my 4th paragraph addressed your concern with regard to not checking Mara meta-
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Hmm you're right. Mara wasn't scumreading ETL, only her tone indicated suspicion in 30 and 32. But I misread, cause it wasn't as obvious as I thought.
Because of this, it seems that ETL's stance is weak,
She might have commited a scumtell for subconscious projection
I have noted it.-
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However, we can tell that ETL thought that way
My paragraph said "49 suggests that ETL thought that..."
So my post is still intact-
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Yeah.
"Or at the last, that's what ETL intepreted"
Why would ETL be on alert is Mara is townreading her early?-
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I agree with 1920 and 1922
@1921 Could be 1 intepretation. Clearly the bottom line is that ETL was surprised about Mara quick townread. Quickness is certainly a characteristic here, whether it's a tonal shift or a fast townread.
I'm PHONEPOSTING so I cant answer 1923 so easily and detailedly
Yeah I'm fine with answering questions that are not loaded-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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Ok while we wait for my answers to be ready,
What is your read on Patrick? What constitutes your read on him, why? Can you point to some examples to support your points?-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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Nice, though most of those posts were examples of your townread of him rather than examples of Patrick's posts that made you go "town", which doesnt show so much of "why and how" you read him town. For example, in 1449, you go "soo toooowwwwnnn", although I can't really see how you had read Patrick as more town than Mina from those quoted posts. What made the difference in your "degree" of "so town"?
If it's a Lylo between Mina/Patrick/you, who would you have an inclination towards voting? Why?-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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Lmfao, molla voting with Johnny on the end of d2 looks terrible, admittedly-
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Oh yeah, I make graphs like that to explain my "reads" too as scum. I'm unfazed.-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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Did you use a laptop pencil though? That's nice handwriting-
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Metal Sonic Sun Tzu
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Hmm
@ ETL? When did your scumread on quilford originate? Give me a recap to the replacement?-
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