Newbie 1378 - Game Over! (Town Wins)

[JasonWazza]

VOTE: uctriton00

Because a quick look over your other games show's you RVS half the time and i don't like that, either RVS or don't man.

[JasonWazza]

(I don't have much experience with it personally, so I don't know them by memory even though I'm familiar with them), and I can generally give you an online equivalent.

I play RL mafia, but i tend to read body language over tells from what people say, just a habit i guess, but it's harder to find an online equivalent due to the lack of emotion in posts etc.

However you eventually get into a way of reading between the lines of what a player says.

VOTE: uctriton00

Because a quick look over your other games show's you RVS half the time and i don't like that, either RVS or don't man.

Vote: Nul

Checked in but hasn't said anything; must be plotting.

My vote is now real, same as Mastin

[JasonWazza]

Let's throw in 2 votes from the actual Mafia and then we'll have an L-1 on Day 1 in less than one page. Bravo!

I'm not mafia, I'm town, by the way.

My first post is a random introduction of myself. I don't know how you find that as scummy.
My second post is answering JasonWazza's request for an RVS.

Care to explain how those 2 posts are "real" votes as scum? Because I don't see it.

a) nice you just assumed that both the mafia are gonna stacks on, because that ever happens
b) you just started flailing really scummily
c) AtE (Appeal to Emotion) is everywhere in this post

But i will do what you say

I'm one of the SEs, which means I'm good at Mafiascum.net. If unsure of how to win game, follow what I say.

Scummy as fuck, this isn't a random introduction, this is scum hoping people are newbish enough to just fucking sheep him.

VOTE: uctriton00

Because a quick look over your other games show's you RVS half the time and i don't like that, either RVS or don't man.

Vote: Nul

Checked in but hasn't said anything; must be plotting.

This is bowing to minimal pressure on you, Scum are more likely to do this then scum are.

Page 1 scum for the win

[JasonWazza]

EBWOP (Edit by way of Post)

This is bowing to minimal pressure on you, Scum are more likely to do this then

TOWN

are.

[JasonWazza]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Too_Townie

P-Edit: That doesn't mean it's a town thing to do in the situation.

[JasonWazza]

Lol keep the AtE up man, it's so useful.

Also you've gone from calling me and mastin both town, to not nessecarily calling us town, make up your mind.

[JasonWazza]

Vote: JasonWazza

I actually think you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

Hi OMGUS (Oh my god you suck) nice to meet you.

[JasonWazza]

I walk in with a random comment, and place a vote for me saying "wow your first vote wasn't an RVS", and then I make an RVS vote, saying "now you're bowing under pressure". It's as if you have a confirmation bias, determined to find anything I do as scummy.

Why would Jason do this? Let's go into your shoes. You have experience where together we did great in a game finding scum together. We then see each other in a new game. You draw a scum card, and look eerily towards me, wondering, "man, he might be able to figure me out, I gotta take him out soon".

This is my case against you, and my vote against you.

Yeah i couldn't at all be trying to formulate reads or anything by being myself which is overly fucking pushy.

Nope it's cause i am scum.

Seriously, i know you play well as town, so wouldn't i be more inclined to make THE FUCK SURE I THINK YOU ARE TOWN?

[JasonWazza]

Read the link i put out on the previous page, too scummy is never a real defense.

[JasonWazza]

If there is a distinct difference between their town/scum play then sure.

[JasonWazza]

Hey guys. As you can tell, I'm new to Mafiascum, but have fairly some experience with mafia games. I played mafia several times on another gaming site and that's where I truly learned the game. I never read any games here, so I can't point references to anyone's play style. People change their playstyle often in mafia to keep things fresh, so referencing playstyle isn't always accurate. I hope we have a good game people!

So got any reads or are you gonna sit in the corner and twiddle your fucking thumbs all game?

RadiantCowbells is another person I am keeping an eye on. I don't like how he posts 1 sentence for each posts. It's like he is trying to "pretend" to be involved in scumhunting, while not trying to write too much as well. It's not like he doesn't have the time either because well, he's been posting 3 times over the hours which means he's keeping a check on this thread. So either he is writing as little as possible because he likes to keep opinions to himself (a townie that doesn't like to talk about their opinion?!), or he is trying not to write too much because he doesn't want to slip while still giving the illusion of activity.

A lot of people do this a lot of the time, regardless of alignment, anti-town =/= Scum

Sucks to be in a different time zone.

I'm an Aussie as well don't worry, it's probably best to get on round 8amish for activity.

[JasonWazza]

UNVOTE: uctriton00
VOTE: Paradigm

First post was pathetic and at best fluff.

Second post is a poor attempt to do the following
a) set up to sheep me
b) set up to lynch Mastin based on being an IC

[JasonWazza]

What about Paradigm then Nul?

[JasonWazza]

Jason: He has been REALLY aggressive so far in this game. I feel like scum would avoid being aggressive. Still, the way he is also being so rude at times makes me think of a guilty person. So I have to say l have a light Scum Read on him.

Rude =/= Scum

That is retarded logic dude

In fact that entire reads list is terrible, not to mention your only doing it because someone asked you and it's like "omg you asked me i guess i'll do it"

NO YOU JUST DO IT TO HELP THE TOWN GIBWPGEIHBOAIN

UNVOTE: Paradigm
VOTE: Lucky2u
FoS (Finger of Suspicion): Paradigm

[JasonWazza]

Lol nice OMGUS, try harder.

Seriously your reads look like they come off a box of cereal.

And you should have been giving reads/scumhunting WITHOUT BEING ASKED TO.

[JasonWazza]

Yes because loud and rude aren't just playstyle tells and not alignment tells.

/sarcasm

Seriously your vote on me is based purely on PLAYSTYLE TELLS.

[JasonWazza]

a) back it up
b) list of reads.

[JasonWazza]

a) back it up
b) list of reads.

Paradigm THIS IS FOR YOU

[JasonWazza]

VOTE COUNT 1.2

Crazzygoat (1) -

Lucky2u

mattel (0) -
Lucky2u (2) - Nul, JasonWazza
Nul (0) -
Paradigm (0) -
RadiantCowbells (1) - Crazzygoat
JasonWazza (2) - uctriton00,

Lucky2u

uctriton00 (1) - RadiantCowbells
mastin2 (

0

) - Paradigm

Not Voting: mattel, mastin2

V/LA: mastin2 (until Tues 5/28)

With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is Wednesday, June 5th at 12:45 pm PDT or in

(expired on 2013-06-05 12:45:00)

<3 fix these please mod

Derp. Fixed in creation of VC 1.3

[JasonWazza]

It's hard to tell if Radiant is really this gun shy legitimately or not.

Either way I'm not sure his reserved nature helps us out when he is so guarded about his reads

. Right now The biggest talkers have been Nul and me over the last few pages. We need more input from all sides, and I would like to know what happened to Mattel who claimed he would catch up the night he checked in, two days ago.

This coming from the guy who wasn't gonna give his reads

[JasonWazza]

UNVOTE: lucky2u
VOTE: RadiantCowbells

This is exactly why you keep getting lynched.

Your scummy as fuck, not giving reads isn't good for town, and OMGUS is not a good reason for a vote.

[JasonWazza]

MAYBE ACT TOWN THEN

How about this, instead of claiming, give us a list of reads with backing behind all of them.

[JasonWazza]

[Massive theory post pretty much aimed at Radiant and lucky2u]

PLEASE REALIZE TALKING ISN'T EVER A BAD THING FOR TOWN

This game purely based on odds IS A MASSIVE ADVANTAGE TO SCUM

By the town talking, even in mislynching THEY GET INFORMATION, information in the end is what kills scum.

However we don't get information in your mislynch IF YOU SIT AROUND TWIDDLING YOUR THUMBS AND CRYING "POOR ME"

Giving out reads gives town info and gives town clues as to who is really scum.

So QUIT ACTTING LIKE READS ARE A TERRIBLE THING THAT NO ONE SHOULD SEE.

For the sake of proving this as a meta example, I will have at least 1000 words of reads within 24 hours, and then you guys will all find minor quibbles with things and use them as a reason that I'm scum, while the people who didn't post any reads at all are ignored and considered "town".

NO NO NO NO *BITCH SLAP*

The reason some people don't have to give out reads IS CAUSE THEY MAKE THEM OBVIOUS, i have no reads lists out BUT I CLEARLY HAVE SHOWN THE TOWN WHO I THINK IS SCUM.

If someone asks you for your reads there is a fucking reason SO DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT IT.

Either your not obvious enough in your reads, or you are being asked to see if you slip up, or actually have cases to back up reads.

The reason Nul, Me, uct etc. haven't been asked for reads is simple.

WE HAVE BEEN SCUMHUNTING, AND OUR READS ARE BLOODY FUCKING OBVIOUS.

So quit complaining about giving the town info, quit making the town have to rely on odds, or lynching enough shitty players before LYLO, Quit complaining that you always get lynched AND START PLAYING BETTER FOR FUCKS SAKE.
[/Massive theory post pretty much aimed at Radiant and lucky2u]

I will apologize in advance for my tone of voice, but you guys fucking deserve it.

[JasonWazza]

Jason has over 3000 posts and has played more mafia games than the amount of times you've engaged in sexual intercourse. You (someone who has played 1 game of mafia) claiming that Jason's "crazy aggressiveness" will cost us the game is hilarious.

I wish to be able to quote this on my wiki when the game is done (partially a note to self, partially asking nul if i can)

[JasonWazza]

I'd rather be getting both so yeah

[JasonWazza]

UNVOTE: RadiantCowbells
VOTE: Lucky2u

That is town RC for once.

[theory]
RC unless you are a PR there is no reason to hold back.

VT's are here to be shot, save a fucking PR for god's sake.
[/theory]

[JasonWazza]

Yeah but your more likely to get shot by leading the town.

Like massively more likely.

[JasonWazza]

That AtE.

[JasonWazza]

Easy, i'd be scumhunting.

[JasonWazza]

*facepalm*

Town should be only focused on scum-hunting, this isn't LYLO so town being lynched doesn't lose us the game, so you shouldn't be defending.

[JasonWazza]

No i said you should focus on helping the team instead of surviving for the team.

You scumhunting right now > you surviving to Night 1

You should see me in most of my games, when i defend it's minimal and has a lot of scum-hunting in with it.

Actually for reference, this is me in a newbie game, 3rd game on site (so from last year) and i was a cop.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=23029

I'm not focused on surviving EVEN THOUGH I AM A PR.

I am focused on finding scum, and so should everyone in this god damned town.

[JasonWazza]

As for you... Judas. I read you slightly scum before but after the recent events. I don't think your scum either. Why? You me and Paradigm were the most likely to get a wagon started on them. I think you sensed that and threw onto me because it was easiest (Jason followed you happily). Your a townie who got scared that Jason was about to make a good case against you and switched to the person who you knew he'd accept as a subsitute.

OMFG ARE YOU SERIOUS?

YOU JUST NAME THE MOST SCUMMY THING AND CALL HIM TOWN FOR IT

[JasonWazza]

*starts beating both RC and lucky with an inflatable hammer*

[JasonWazza]

Mastin i wall regularly and i read most walls (key word being most) i think if you don't you probably shouldn't play a game based on a forum.

Yes less words can sometimes be better (Nachomamma8 is a good person i think of for that to be the case.)

But i also believe that if you have to say more it shows more of what your casing is.

basically a case is more convincing when it is thought-out and makes logical sense (and isn't just YOUR SCUM DEAL WITH IT or AtE bullshit).

On another note, when are we lynching lucky, and where is our mod?

Someone should prod our mod, so he can prod Paradigm, and mattel, and crazzygoat, and you know make this a 9 person town rather then a 6 person town.

[JasonWazza]

@Jason, who are your scum reads at the moment? What do you think about #58 when mastin removes his vote although Lucky was only at L-3? I feel like you've been throwing votes around and sitting back to watch things unfold, you don't really pursue any of the cases you made after you've voted.

There's a reason i throw votes out and there's a reason i don't pursue some cases.

Some are more meant to pressure people i think are townies to do things.

Crazzygoat- Null
mattel- Null
Lucky2u- Scum
Nul- Prob's town
Paradigm- Possible Scum
RadiantCowbells- Null leaning town
JasonWazza- Me
uctriton00- Possible Scum
mastin2- Null

[JasonWazza]

Your role.

So that if your a PR we can reconsider the lynch based on your believability.

(Cause there is no reason for town to lie, but Mafia are likely to fake claim.)

[JasonWazza]

Right now, looking through it is hard to pinpoint anyone.

My vote is going to someone who seems to be trying to deflect votes from another memeber.

Vote: crazygoat.

So how exactly is this scummy mattel?

[JasonWazza]

Let alone, how does that reason cover 4 more pages of content?

[JasonWazza]

UNVOTE: Lucky2u
VOTE: mattel

As much as i don't like lucky, and think he prob's still is scum, that posting is bad, especially in a NEWB GAME

[JasonWazza]

Scum ^

[JasonWazza]

Use your vote THEN SO THAT THERE IS A COUNTER WAGON AND WE AT LEAST GET INFO FROM YOUR LYNCH

[JasonWazza]

Dear god you make me want to bitch slap you.

Correct that you could possibly be the lynch the next day if you manage to get the wagon off you, THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU SIT THERE AND TAKE IT LIKE A FREAKING WHORE.

[JasonWazza]

Like seriously, in these games you don't sit down and just take being lynched, being killed yeah you take it.

For example, a quick check at my wiki shows i have been lynched 11 times, out of 33 games, i don't just sit there and take ANY of them lynches, i keep on scumhunting regardless of any scrutiny BECAUSE I HAVE A WIN CONDITION TO PROTECT.

[JasonWazza]

CONVINCE ME YOU ARE ACTUALLY TOWN YOURSELF MATTEL.

Seriously the newb card got old like a year before you used it.

[JasonWazza]

oooohhhhh i'm so scared

[JasonWazza]

@MOD: Prod yourself, uctriton00 and Mastin please oh and Radiant if your that late

[JasonWazza]

Sorry it's monday here so i don't see his V/LA thingo

[JasonWazza]

SO I thought the newb game was for people to find their way and to help get advice.

Seems most everyone in here is experienced in the game play.

Let's calm down here a bit. I am really new at this and have never play a game where it is not storyline driven. This is absolutely new to me.

Newb games are for people to find their way and get advice--that's largely my job, in fact, to help you. However, you're quite correct--this game seems to be an abnormality, in that the players here have a greater deal of experience than in an average newbie game. Basically, I believe that overall, this specific game is holding a higher standard than most newbie games do, a standard closer to that of the rest of the site.

For the purposes of learning how the rest of the site plays, this game's going to be good. For the purposes of adjusting to how the site plays, not so much. It would appear to largely be "sink-or-swim" in its approach. (Or, in this case, "adapt or be lynched". ) I am, of course, against this, both as a player and as a teacher, since that will potentially drive away newbies.

Guys, From the sounds of things, mattel's on the verge of giving up on mafiascum.net. WE DO NOT WANT THAT, EVER. So put things aside for a minute, and let mattel adjust. He's already doing a good job--by calming down and not rushing, he's taking his time to get things right. A step in the correct direction, but he needs that shove, to also push things more aggressively, so to speak. (And by aggressive, I don't mean, "YOU ARE SCUM!" or "This player is scum, so sheep me." or such. I merely mean pursuing every aspect of the read to the fullest, as I described earlier--posting about it, explaining where you're coming from, asking others to comment and analyze your reasons, and working from that.)

Gonna have to agree to disagree, and your actually going against the IC code of don't pull your punches.

We are teaching newbs how to play by playing with them, not by treating them like babies.

(this is not meant to be offensive to anyone)

[JasonWazza]

I'm waiting for him to give the maybe town parts of them.

Also waiting for him to find scum to vote.

And if anyone hammers before Mastin starts scumhunting, they will be lynched tomorrow.

[JasonWazza]

Also where the hell is our mod?

He hasn't been here since saturday so i am going to notify Singersigner that he may be missing AWOL etc.

[JasonWazza]

Mastin, why?

ACTUALLY SCUMHUNT SO I CAN HAVE A READ ON YOU

[JasonWazza]

To be fair, i think most of the players are setting me up to be "D2 lynch if mafia doesn't kill"

[JasonWazza]

You see i'm not liking all this "i'll explain in a bit" it's coming out way too fucking much

[JasonWazza]

i messaged singersigner earlier, no updates as of yet.

Think Jackal either site flaked, or is at the balto meet and i have no idea when that ends.

[JasonWazza]

Also i want to bitchslap mastin, it feels like he is pulling punches or scum.

I mean these cases are weak as fuck.

[JasonWazza]

@Whomever takes over the game, can we have a deadline extension as we haven't had a VC or a mod in forever, please and thank you

[JasonWazza]

People bus (as in, throw your partner under the bus) each other all the time in Mafia. Well, not ALL the time, but it happens. I'll give you credit though that in newbie games, I think it's rare. Jason can chime in on this if he wants with his experience.

Please i bus my partners all the time, if my partner sucks ohhh look a bus *pushes partner*

Seriously though, bussing is very normal

Though if i am being fair, i managed to break at least half of the "Newbie Tells"

I will give you this though: Radiant's second half of his ISO is nowhere near as bad as his first. The halfway point is right where Jason calls out Radiant on it.

Here's a great theory: Radiant scum, and Jason being a scum teammate coaching him to be townier?

I'll chew that cud for a bit.

Actually that is retarded beyond belief, Neither alignment can be determined from that.

Town coaches town a lot, I'd Coach scum as town because it's a freaking NEWB game, I'd Coach a lot of townies as scum <3, and if we were both scum i'd probably not coach and just push him in front of the bus, and coach him if he survives the impending wagon.

Coaching in a NEWB game is a terrible tell.

[JasonWazza]

<3 thanks NS i will find the PM now <3

[JasonWazza]

UNVOTE: Mattel
VOTE: RadiantCowbells

Given that crazzygoat's somewhat a oddball and Paradigm will likely be replaced you may want to claim now

[JasonWazza]

<3 thank you replacements

Warning that Radiant is on L-1 if either of you hammer without intent my foot goes up your ass.

[JasonWazza]

Alright. I still feel that no more discussion is really necessary.

Lucky2u is one of the scums, and the other scum is on my wagon.

Jason, switch your vote back to Lucky please.

This was not a townie post.

[JasonWazza]

Plus how is Radiant town

pedobear

enomis?

Seriously did fuck all till i told him to do shit.

[JasonWazza]

No my reason is she has been a scum fuck all game and that post is trying to end a day way earlier then needed, especially when there is two slots with fuck all info.

[JasonWazza]

*he, sorry

[JasonWazza]

What's your problem with my swearing?

Also enomis i'm not here to do your work for you, if your town pull your finger out and decide who is town and who is scum for yourself.

Also considering she out and out OMGUS'd me it's getting obvious.

Another useless post by lucky.

Anywhere, scummy behaviour =/= scummy.
You must tag the scummy behaviour to the PERSON. Not all scummy behaviour applies to the person. Ofcourse i never play with radiant before. But looking at that post, it feels genuine. Maybe i will look into his meta and check abit.
But she is TOWN.

ARE YOU SCUM AND KNOW THIS?

[JasonWazza]

How was that a 180?

[JasonWazza]

if you are a doctor i will fucking murder you tomorrow.

[JasonWazza]

YOU DON'T FUCKING SELF HAMMER AS A PR

[JasonWazza]

DON'T BLAME ME FOR YOU BEING A RETARDED SHIT

[JasonWazza]

NEVER EVER IN A MILLION YEARS SHOULD YOU SELFHAMMER AS TOWN ERGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

SCUM IS THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO HAVE ANY REASON TO SELFHAMMER

P-EDIT: NO THAT ISN'T HOW IT WORKS.

[JasonWazza]

OMG I REALLY HOPE YOU ARE TROLLING SCUM

[JasonWazza]

THAT'S RETARDED BEYOND BELIEF

[JasonWazza]

EVEN IF YOU FLIP DOC THERE IS NO REASON ANYONE SHOULD BELIEVE YOU AFTER YOUR RETARDED SELF HAMMER

WE FUCKING EVEN HAVE SOMEONE WHO HASN'T POSTED YET BECAUSE THEY JUST REPLACED IN

DO YOU REALIZE HOW FUCKING STUPID THAT WAS?

P-Edit: HE IS LYNCHED SELF-HAMMERS ARE REAL AND HE LYNCHED HIMSELF

[JasonWazza]

RC SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU ALREADY PROVED YOU WERE RETARDED.

[JasonWazza]

Cop/Tracker pick a target at YOUR discrestion.

RC just fucked town up the ass.

[JasonWazza]

Actually i still hold the hope you are trolling scum.

I don't have any extra knowledge saying you are town, i had an inkling you were scum, does that make me scum, NO

[JasonWazza]

PLEASE PLEASE be a trolling scum.

also of course i talk to you as if your town after you hammer, and i didn't talk to you as if you were town when i voted you.

[JasonWazza]

uct get your vote off me now before i put my foot up your ass, that is bad logic and you know it, produce a case or don't do it.

Real Post later.

[JasonWazza]

I'm giving lip service to Radiant's town flip. Yes he blew it by wasting a power role, but that doesn't mean he could be wrong about Jason attacking the **** out of him and pretty much everyone else in the game (including me early on).

Actually your fucking with me right?

You know you have seen me as a town PR and i did the same thing.

I always do the same thing.

Attacking people brings out alignment tells.

That doesn't make me scum.

[JasonWazza]

I defended cause the vote was based on SHIT that doesn't in any way make me scum

Aggression isn't a scum tell.

And again real post later when I'm home (shouldn't be more then 2 hours)

[JasonWazza]

Genius move scum... Now I look even more suspicious because he was my main accuser.

Yeah your just worried about looks then are you?

Two thoughts on this.

Lucky claimed to be a vanilla townie and one was lynched. How many vanilla townies would there be in such a small game?

Two, Jason was extremely aggressive and he reads scum to me. I am open to discussion but I am leaning very heavily towards Jason.

Bare minimum is 5 VT's

Other then that there is what is shown in the first page of the game a combination of PR's in which we either have

Mafia Roleblocker - Town Cop - Town Docter

Or

Mafia Goon - Town Doctor - Town Tracker

As we know a doctor exists these are the only possible setups.

And added to this is 1 goon and 5 VT's

Nul's kill looks like an obvious frame attempt, and I'm not afraid to lynch Lucky2u in a lylo situation.

I'm giving lip service to Radiant's town flip. Yes he blew it by wasting a power role, but that doesn't mean he could be wrong about Jason attacking the **** out of him and pretty much everyone else in the game (including me early on).

Given Lucky's first post do you really think this is true still, he doesn't look for scum today, he just hops on a wagon.

Not to mention that is a shit ass reason.

My read on jason is scum. I don't know his play from other games as this is my first game with him. However, I think the aggressive approach is a terrible tatic unless you have something to go on.

vote: jason

Bad Logic post again

Aggression =/= scum

Aggression gets me alignment tells in which helps my scumhunting, saying i'd only do it as scum isn't just bad, it's TERRIBLE

His last two posts bother me... OMGUS, past game reference, defending himself against a single vote like he was L -1. Allow me to put him there and see what happens.

VOTE: JasonWazza

Where's the OMGUS?

So lets see, you gonna do anything helpful today lucky or are you gonna just ride this lynch to LYLO?

VOTE: Lucky2u

Because this game day he seriously opened with "scum is trying to frame me"

As a townie he shouldn't be concerned with this and rather should be finding the scum.

[JasonWazza]

And note this, i never called uct scum, i think his quite possibly town, he should just know better then to call me scum based on the reasoning he is giving.

[JasonWazza]

So your not going to defend the fact that you are being scummy and on top of that your sheeping a "he might be a cop because he voted straight away"

P-Edit: So you just possibly outted our PR, so how are you not scum?

[JasonWazza]

Also if anyone has any guiltys on me feel free to claim them so i can vote you.

[JasonWazza]

Linxie i know i'm town, so if someone has a guilty on me they are scum.

[JasonWazza]

Also if anyone has any

guiltys

on me feel free to claim them so i can vote you.

Meaning said "townie" has a result saying i am scum.

However i know this is fake.

[JasonWazza]

Clearly.

[JasonWazza]

I'm not always an ass, just mostly when i scum-hunt (and when people do stupid shit like RC did.)

[JasonWazza]

Talk to me after the game and i will be less of an ass

Also do you think Mattel and Lucky2u are scum?

Cause a vote on one of them would be good.

[JasonWazza]

if you have a feeling, trust it and put some pressure on to get more alignment tells.

[JasonWazza]

So vote Lucky then? >.>

[JasonWazza]

No.

NL only occurs at Deadline, or if the Soft Majority of the town decide to NL.

[JasonWazza]

For clarification, a Soft Majority is as in if there is 8, then 4 is a soft majority, but 5 is a full majority.

[JasonWazza]

Not a problem.

[JasonWazza]

Dear god are you people stupid?

Voting straight up, considering he is making a case doesn't make him a PR which is a good thing.

I will try to do the list in a bit.

Also i thought Radiant was more scummy then Lucky at the time, and Radiant just stupid lynched herself.

List soonish.

[JasonWazza]

Scum
Lucky2u
Mattel
Mastin2
uctriton00
enomis
Linxie
JasonWazza
Town

Reasoning:

Lucky2u has done fuck all scumhunting, seriously he's not scumhunting his sheeping people and OMGUSing.

Mattel, his kinda the same as Lucky in the scumhunting department and is voting based on Playstyle tells rather then Alignment tells.

Mastin2, His basically been an IC all game, little to no Active scumhunting, i think he is doing passive scumhunting possibly but he isn't sharing it in a way that i find town.

uctriton00, As much as i hate the fact that he is sheeping a stupid dead person, i think he could possibly be town, once i see his case i could possibly see him as more town.

enomis, This place is basically PoE rather then an actual read, i mean Paradigm was terrible but using PoE i think quite possibly town.

Linxie, Again with a bit of PoE and a lot of gut, this is more a gut town read.

P-Edit:

Do you not understand my question?
Your POV:
1.Lucky possibly just outted Ucrit as PR
2.Letting scum know who PR is.(not a good move as town)
3.Therefore lucky is scum.

But at the same time.
1.Luckt possibly just outted Ucrit as PR.
2.Therefore if Ucrit is PR, you would be scum.
3.Therefore Making your POV argument Illogical because you are arguing that lucky is scum based on the point that you are scum.

This shows a gap in Logic. Mind explaining this?

Not at all.

I don't think ucrit is a PR, however even so i could see a possible scum partner pointing out how he could be a town PR like this.

Though Ucrit isn't even nearly a PR in my mind, making a case isn't a PR.

[JasonWazza]

So Jason is suggesting that if a cop or tracker got a read on him it would be false.

How does that work? Seems he could be grasping at straws here to stay alive.

Everything he is doing is reading scum and if we can get a couple more votes we will see he is in fact scum.

CAUSE I'M FUCKING TOWN, YOU RETARDED?

[JasonWazza]

Also i'm CERTAIN that uct has no form of result that is incriminatory of me nor would he fake claim it because even though i'm a threat, this isn't LYLO and a 1v1 trade isn't beneficial for him (assuming he is scum).

So everyone assuming that is terrible, if anyone has a incrimnatory result, please step the fuck forward so we can all hear it.

[JasonWazza]

And let me point this out

1v1 for Town is actually beneficial for Town in this case

1v1 for Scum is terrible at any point.

@enomis: Radiant was scummy for only actually scumhunting when i decided to pressure him (And radiant even if you are a PR that doesn't mean you shouldn't be out there and scumhunting) it gave scummy vibes the whole time just lucky was being more scummy before hand, then he seemed very slightly more townish for a bit.

If anyone hammers me before i claim/say last words, i will scream at you post game.

[JasonWazza]

So Jason is suggesting that if a cop or tracker got a read on him it would be false.

How does that work? Seems he could be grasping at straws here to stay alive.

Everything he is doing is reading scum and if we can get a couple more votes we will see he is in fact scum.

CAUSE I'M FUCKING TOWN, YOU RETARDED?

I just woke up and still catching up, but I had to stop and comment on this... How is this post helpful? Seriously. You said it in CAPS so it must be true? Is that the logic here?

Because how many times do i have to point out that a guilty on me has to come from scum?

I missed it before somehow but our town doctor, who was lynched, also identified jason as scum.

There is just too much against him to not vote for him.

The fact that he had no 100% proof means nothing?

Jason reacts very violently when accused, and when disagreed with or if something doesn't go his way. These tantrums seem more and more like a way to sheep people. Look at what just happened with Linxie, Jason yelled at him until he agreed with him. Jason can very easily control anyone to do what he wants this way and has been the entire game. We've already seen that what he wants is townies dead though. His top suspects D1 was Radiant and me. Radiant flipped doctor. If you decide to hammer me, that's fine because it will make Jason 0-2 and you should have no problem lynching him on D3.

p-edit: and yes the saying any guilty claim against him MUST be false, is scummy as hell.

So town can't be wrong?

Seriously arguments against me are weak

[JasonWazza]

If lucky is scum he is playing a very dangerous game right now as he has identified scum in Jason. If we could get the vote to lynch Jason and prove to everyone that he is indeed scum I think this would point heavily to mastin as him and Jason have seemed to fallen in love and are intent on making scum babies.

Lol the stupidity in this is incredible.

You don't even know my meta and your case on me is this

I'm Aggressive, Playstyle tell only
And i am now partners with Mastin because i apparently buddied him, i have a tendency to bus as scum, but no don't even think on that

[JasonWazza]

AtE.

Give a proper reason maybe?

[JasonWazza]

Appeal to Emotion

and no-one knows i am scum, i can assure you that.

[JasonWazza]

Lol first you provide ACTUAL reasoning on me maybe?

[JasonWazza]

Actually i have, you know since i know i'm town.

Whereas your reasoning is shit because that would make me scum in EVERY GAME

[JasonWazza]

Can you give reasoning that actually makes me scum?

Or are you gonna just give me reasoning which makes town me scum?

P-Edit:

Also Linxie is becoming a scum read for me. Spending way to much time defending someone that has been read by several people as being scum.

That is not a reason to scum read ANYONE

[JasonWazza]

Wait so now i am partners with Linxie and Mastin?

Jesus i must get around.

I guess i will be partners with enomis if he decides that he thinks i am town as well yeah?

[JasonWazza]

btw, OMGUSing (oh my god you suck or basically voting someone because the voted/casted suspicion on you) everyone that suspects you is not a town thing to do.

[JasonWazza]

Ummm your being retarded right?

You realize people voting for Lucky have given reasons, whereas people voting for me have given NOTHING THAT ACTUALLY MAKES ME SCUM.

[JasonWazza]

argh... I'm a GIRL not a BOY! Or do I have to prove this as well?

Yep we need pics

[JasonWazza]

I was actually kidding about the pic thing Linxie

[JasonWazza]

Hey ucrit. Don't try to hide yourself through today. What happen to your awesome wall that you promised.

QFT

[JasonWazza]

DID YOU GUYS JUST LYNCH YOUR COP?

WTF?

[JasonWazza]

LINIXE IS TOWN

I'M 99% SURE SCUM IS IN {LUCKY, MATTEL UCRIT}

[JasonWazza]

SERIOUSLY HOW LONG HAVE I BEEN SOFTCLAIMING COP?

AND U LYNCH ME YOU DUMB FUCKS

[JasonWazza]

LUCKY YOU DUMB FUCK I DIDN'T INVESTIGATE YOU SO HOW COULD I KNOW YOUR TOWN YOU DUMBASS

[JasonWazza]

SERIOUSLY YOU PEOPLE ARE STUPID, DO NOT LET UCRIT THROUGH TOMORROW CAUSE HE FUCKING QUICKHAMMERED YOUR COP

[JasonWazza]

HEY LUCKY LOOK HOW FAR DOING WHAT DEAD PEOPLE SAID GOT YOU?

[JasonWazza]

HEY I'M JUST SAYING BECAUSE SOMEONE IS TOWN AND FLIP DOESN'T MEAN THEY WERE RIGHT, I WAS RAGING SO HARD AT RC BECAUSE I WAS THE FUCKING COP

[JasonWazza]

UCRIT YOU SO AREN'T TOWN, GO DIE IN A HOLE YOU KNOW THE FUCK BETTER THEN QUICK LYNCHING SOMEONE WHO HASN'T CLAIMED.

[JasonWazza]

YES YOU ATE BUT YOUR NOT DUMB ENOUGH TO QUICKHAMMER LIKE A DUMBASS KNOWING THERE IS STILL A PR SITTING OUT THERE

SERIOUSLY YOU HAMMERED YOUR COP LIKE A FUCK WIT.

ALSO MATTEL IS LIKELY SECOND SCUM WITH UCT FOR TRYING TO MAKE IT OUT LIKE I'M NOT A COP AND TROLLING, CAUSE WHAT USE IS THERE FOR ME TO DO THAT?

[JasonWazza]

fuck this i can't stop pissing myself laughing at this game.

Scumbud shoot Mattel, he is the only one that realized that i might not be a cop, hence he basically claimed cop.

and have fun with my big bowl of WIFOM that i left for you guys.

[JasonWazza]

Linxie caps is off i was doing it for the WIFOM of it all <3

[JasonWazza]

Also RC, had i actually been a PR i would have played pretty much the same, so your move was fucking dumb, could have lost 2 PR's for the price of one dumb PR.

[JasonWazza]

uct, don't be a dumb fuck.

Seriously your hammer was dumb as fuck, you got lucky (or knew you were right ).

Lol MORE WIFOM MWAHAHAHAHAHA

[JasonWazza]

*cut's uct's avatars wings off and serves them to him*

..|..

Just saying <3

[JasonWazza]

Also, may i point out, i was rightfully pissed at that hammer given how hard and obviously i was softclaiming.

[JasonWazza]

Heh hope you live till end game uct <3 it will show how dumb these people really are <3

[JasonWazza]

Damn that would be so fucking funny i wish i was, but sadly i am scum <3

[JasonWazza]

don't feel bad <3 i'm very convincing, and to be honest, Lucky and Mattel had no actual reasons for voting me other then "RC said so" which isn't good.

P-Edit: Why not?

I could have innocented anyone or guiltied anyone.

[JasonWazza]

Yeah i would.

You don't investigate people you think are guilty or people you think are innocent, you investigate nulls.

No use investigating someone who was gonna be lynched tomorrow any way, and no use investigating someone who is likely to be killed.

[JasonWazza]

Or if i just got lynched, i would claim it.

Plus yes they may be scummiest, but you don't want to investigate them, it's hard to stop a lynch on them without claiming which is worthless.

And Null are less likely to get killed/lynched.

Getting to Day 3/Lylo with 2 innocents still living is an auto win situation.

Day 3 with an innocent, and a guilty is close to perfect.

[JasonWazza]

Love how my mastin advice is tiny compared to everyone else's.
Oh well GG town.

[JasonWazza]

After reading all of Mastin's posts there is 1 that i read that i want to double up on

I can sum up my lessons to most of the town in a single word: presentation.

I would recommend that to all of you, in various different ways described in the wall; one of the main reasons this game was as close as it was is because most of the town players didn't present themselves as well as they needed to, whereas both Jason and I have had a

lot

of experience presenting ourselves favorably as both alignments. You don't want to structure yourself so much that your posts look artificial and hollow (that's a quick way to the noose), but you want to make sure that both you AND your reads are looked at favorably.

Basically, one of the main things is talking to specific players and working with them, coordinating not only reads, but also reasons. When you think you have something, present it to your peers and explain why you think it might be something, and evaluate off of their feedback how valid it is. You'll note that one of the main elements of my scum play throughout the entirety of this game is that I was talking with others and trying to work with them (except during parts of D3 where I was intentionally not doing so, in order to promote the "tVt nature" of my fight with triton)--as scum, this is to manipulate them so that they look favorably upon me. But as town, this is just as important a skill to master, because the town is the majority. You need other town players to obtain a lynch. Even if your reads are dead-on, they're worthless if you can't convince your fellow townies that you're right.

There's generally a reason I use phrases like "work with me, here" and the like, and I highly discourage players from antagonizing one another: because the town as a whole works best by working together, and to do so, they need to get that common ground. They need to hold an understanding of one another, and that's a key element of mafia games. (Also a huge reason why meta is so prevalent in the current site meta.) You need to be able to see where a player comes from, and explain where you come from, and be able to get towards a common ground. Mafia is a team game, and you can't fly solo. Not as town, and not even as scum. (It's easier as scum, but I lost this game whereas with Jason alive I probably would have won.) Both sides need to work as a coherent unit in order to win against the other.

If there's one lesson of mine that I'd value more than any other, it'd be that--to recognize that there's a grander element of mafia that extends beyond just yourself, and that you need to think of others.

This is a very true overall statement.

Presentation gets you everywhere.

And i have one scum game that basically proves it.

Mainstream Mafia.

In this game i was Mafia, and by day 4, 5 of my 7 scumbuddys were dead

We were basically fucked, except that i had already been posturing myself too look as town as possible with my role, and by Day 10 (the last day and 3P LYLO) it was kinda obvious i was scum, and i won anyway because it was hard to overlook everything i had done with myself that was pro-town.

As for the part about being on side with the town, i'd say that's more a playstyle thing, i antagonize everyone as a playstyle thing to constantly get reactions.

[JasonWazza]

Just a hint, aggressiveness isn't actually scummy, nor is being rude, both of those a playstyle tells not alignment ones.

Also Mattel isn't the MVP, he got lucky that you dumb hammered someone softing Cop so damn hard Ucrit.

Really, he should have just come and outted himself once he realized no one was coming near me.

And i can't believe so many people were blind to my fairly obvious soft claiming.

[JasonWazza]

Jason [no offense meant, mate ] is probably a good example from this game--there are people worse than him, but you can get an idea of what they're like based off of Jason

That's not necessarily the intent, but i can understand that's how it comes off, i'm only an ass if someone Appears scummy, or is being really really stupid, though it's not at all the intent.

P.S. what did Mattel do to get modkilled?

I think Mastin brought it up, in that Mattel PM'd Mastin that he had got him (in my mind it's a minor offense but oh well and i also think that mattel shouldn't have got his result cause he was dead but that's a mod difference.)

[JasonWazza]

RC, YOU LYNCHED YOURSELF

No one but you shoulders the blame for your lynch.

[JasonWazza]

Heres how the game works.

If someone quickhammers without intent/claim, they entirely shoulder the blame for the lynch because no-one else gave permission for the lynch. (THIS IS YOU RC)
If someone claims intent, gets a claim, etc. THEN the wagon is responsible because they let the intent go through, not all people will be on the wagon intent to lynch.

Had someone claimed intent you would have claimed, then we lynch someone else, and you die N1 THIS WAS THE PREFERABLE SOLUTION FOR TOWN.
Instead you choose to fuck town up the ass and hammer yourself.

[JasonWazza]

P.S: the single stupidest thing this town did was the fucking quickhammers.

Had i been cop (not at all unlikely) RC hammered herself to try and lynch the cop, Ucrit hammered the cop, and we are in the worst LYLO i have ever seen.

[JasonWazza]

You say that like they weren't fucktards stupid enough to vote up the doctor.

You say that like you weren't the fucktard that quickhammered yourself as doc.