Newbie 1466: ICECREAM! (Game Over)

[vonflare]

Hi! sorry i'm late. I was on vacation when I got the PM.

anyway, I vote HUA

proper format: *VOTE: HUA*

mostly because of this:

bq. Aha! We both have something in common: fondness of sheep. I'm a little more obvious for that, but you seem to act in the same way those lovely creatures do.

trying to make friends? I know, it's not much, but what do you expect? its RVS.

[vonflare]

Hi! sorry i'm late. I was on vacation when I got the PM.

anyway, I vote HUA

proper format: *VOTE: HUA*

mostly because of this:

bq. Aha! We both have something in common: fondness of sheep. I'm a little more obvious for that, but you seem to act in the same way those lovely creatures do.

trying to make friends? I know, it's not much, but what do you expect? its RVS.

[vonflare]

whoops sorry for double posting.

[vonflare]

wait, wut? *x* isn't bold???

just read the formatting thingy, apparently you need square brackets.

ok try again,

vote: HUA

too complicated, with all the square bracket /b stuff

[vonflare]

IM SO SORRY FOR THE 5-POST!

I just read the sheep comment again, and realized it was an insult. XD

unvote

[vonflare]

Why does the sheep thing being an insult make it worthwhile to unvote Huaroijalkjd?

I think that Scum wouldn't insult someone, preferring to stay on their good side.

[vonflare]

UNVOTE: Ulysses96
VOTE: vonflare
Ulysses may have the number 96 in his username, but vonflare posted 96 times to technically do nothing.

BOOM ... eat my vote, spit it out and eat it again!

hmm, I didn't know accidentally double posting was scummy.

I didn't know apologizing for double posting was scummy.

And I didn't know correcting a formatting error I made was scummy.

So i'll try not to do it again. lest I receive more votes for no reason.

[vonflare]

and by the way,

vote: thor

because he seems to be throwing his votes around without a reason. He might be just trying to target those that are gaining a bandwagon, and that he knows are town,

hoping to eliminate his competition.

[vonflare]

I was ROFLing reading those posts. AND THIS TIME, NO DOUBLE POST.

[vonflare]

Ok, thor, I don't think you understand my logic behind that vote. I at first thought the sheep thing was a COMPLIMENT, so I voted him for complementing another player (scummy). THEN, I realized it was not a compliment, but an INSULT (not scummy), so I unvoted.

[vonflare]

it's possible, but there is no way to know for sure.

P.S. if you think they are bussing, why didn't you vote them...?

[vonflare]

Hmmm, well, if someone knew this logic, they would avoid the scumtell, but insult to look more town. of course that might be what they want us to think...

Making this WIFOM. there is no answer.

[vonflare]

Ok, thor, I don't think you understand my logic behind that vote. I at first thought the sheep thing was a COMPLIMENT, so I voted him for complementing another player (scummy). THEN, I realized it was not a compliment, but an INSULT (not scummy), so I unvoted.

So you thought Hua complimented someone and voted them in the same post?

Oh. lol. now I feel silly.

[vonflare]

Why was it that when you thought he hadn't insulted someone that you didn't get a vote in play elsewhere and instead just unvoted? You're currently voting me, and at that point had voted him, so clearly you have a basic concept that if your vote is in play it's a good thing, so why the naked unvote and nothing?

Also, how many games have you played of Mafia in person or on any site? (exact number matters little to me though, really I'm asking you about your experience)

Ummmm. zero. well, one, if you count this one.

I left the unvote becasue I didn't want to vone another person with little/no information if they were scum or not.

[vonflare]

Ummmm. zero. well, one, if you count this one.

Did you read many games?

I left the unvote becasue I didn't want to vone another person with little/no information if they were scum or not.

So you're saying that your current vote is better supported than any other vote possibility out there? You're voting me for OMGUS, I'll accept that's a reason, but it's about as much of one as 'you look funny' so why was it worth voting and not any other possible vote?

I kinda fidured you were voting without a reason, which is scummy. But now I see that that is supposed to hapen. So ok.

just ignore my other comments. I'll keep my vote where it is, though, becasue it IS provoking a reaction.

[vonflare]

on second thought, VOTE: Ulysses96

[vonflare]

Ummmm. zero. well, one, if you count this one.

Did you read many games?

no, sorry.

[vonflare]

Okay, so everyone is commenting on my newbie behaviour. I don't blame you, I am new.

Thor, in answer to your question, I did read advice articles on the wiki.

Ulysses96, I random voted you because I was, well, random voting. That's it.

I'm not really sure how to pick out scum, but the best way to learn is through experience. So lets just follow the lead of the post above me and VOTE: teedy

[vonflare]

I've been reading the wiki recently, and want to change my vote. I realized that Mafia really like to inflate the importance of townie mistakes, which is what Thor has been accused of doing.

VOTE: Thor

[vonflare]

cmon.

I change my votes because I read something that I missed before, that changes my opinion.

[vonflare]

So?

the first 3 were RVS, the final Thor vote was kinda calculated, from the limited information I have.

[vonflare]

alright, I see that somehow I have managed to annoy everyone.

UNVOTE:

To be honest, I have no idea who's scum and who's town. I am just voting whoever seems stand-out-ish.

to me, everyone seems town. That's the truth. so what do I do?

[vonflare]

I think Salmonella is trying to deflect votes and straying them away from his mafia friend vonflare. I believe he and vonflare are the mafia guys because of their VERY suspicious behaviour and all of the reasons that you guys stated above.
VOTE: vonflare

and another thing...

You said something about that fish guy and me being scumbuddies.

Obviously this is false, but why did you vote ME, instead of the other guy you accused...?

just wondering on your logic. did you flip a coin or something, or was there a reason? because if I thought two were scummy, I would vote the more experienced one (fish guy) instead.

It could be possible that fish guy and karlos are scumbuddies, so when karlos lynches me and I flip town, it gives fish guy town cred and the mafia a free mislynch.

thoughts?

[vonflare]

oh yeah. and

VOTE: karlos4

[vonflare]

1: no.
2: no. I think you are right.

I know what your next question is. "then why did you vote me?"

the answer is because I was just looking for someone to vote for. maybe there was a little OMGUS in there too.

Now what do you think of my theory in post #79? or were you avoiding that question on purpose?

[vonflare]

thank you for that informative IC thing. I will take your advice.

[vonflare]

1: no.
2: no. I think you are right.

I know what your next question is. "then why did you vote me?"

the answer is because I was just looking for someone to vote for. maybe there was a little OMGUS in there too.

Then why did you unvote me the instant anyone questioned you on it?
Also, if you think i am right, why are you okay with Huadsaopjd's lying about what I'm doing and why aren't you asking him about that?

Now what do you think of my theory in post #79? or were you avoiding that question on purpose?

I think it's too early in the game to feel like discussing partnership theories as I don't see any town value gains coming from the conversation.

well, anyways, I think karlos4 is scum. just look at only his posts, one after the other. He has contributed nothing to the thread other than accusing me (although, I have contributed nothing other than accusing him. XD), and is kinda sheepish following other people beforehand.

sorry karlos if i'm wrong, but that's just what I think at the moment.

[vonflare]

Then why did you unvote me the instant anyone questioned you on it?
Also, if you think i am right, why are you okay with Huadsaopjd's lying about what I'm doing and why aren't you asking him about that?

I also asked this.

I unvoted because it seemed like everyone was annoyed at me, and it seemed like I was doing everything wrong.

I never said I was okay with hua's accusation of you. But what am I going to do to him? you already asked what his reasoning was. Do you want me to ask him the same question?

[vonflare]

alrighty then.

so what is your reason for voting me? because you still are...

[vonflare]

ummmm, so, what....

You sneakily avoided answering my question.

I asked why you voted me.
you said to cause pressure.
then you said your vote on me was serious. (or you were considering making it serious)
either way, you contradicted yourself, because a vote for pressure isn't serious.

THAT'S SCUMMY.

[vonflare]

furthermore, this implies that you are planning on making something up as a reason to vote me.

Was your comment to scare me? or did it have a sinister motive behind it?

[vonflare]

No, I described how you failed to answer.

[vonflare]

I agree with teedykay. karlos is acting pretty sus-pish-er-ous.

he has posted exactly 8 times to do exactly nothing other than vote.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=23356

so there you go.

[vonflare]

um, the link didn't work properly.

here:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

[vonflare]

You reasoning is sound, except for the @vonflare part, I think.

Not contributing to scumhunting is VERY scummy. The scum already have all the answers, and karlos isn't doing a very good job hiding his disintrest in scumhunting.

If I were to say 2 scum names, I would say Karlos and Hua.

(hua becasue of the holes in his statements pointed out via thor)

I like my vote where is is, because I'm more sure about karlos, but if hua gets to L-1 I might jump on.

[vonflare]

so karlos, let me get this straight:

There are two people who have been spoken for as prob town by multiple people (me & salmon)
you then vote for them, and your reason is that we are defending ourselves from votes.


you then go on to say that you voted for us because other people are posting things that expose us as scum.

[vonflare]

and btw, karlos, plz get an avatar. I look for new posts by seeing if there are any avatars that aren't mine under my last post, so I frequently miss your posts if someone posted under you.

[vonflare]

so karlos, let me get this straight:

There are two people who have been spoken for as prob town by multiple people (me & salmon)
you then vote for them, and your reason is that we are defending ourselves from votes.


you then go on to say that you voted for us because other people are posting things that expose us as scum.

so karlos, let me get this straight:

you then go on to say that you voted for us because other people are posting things that expose us as scum.

No, not because other people posted things, that exposed you as scum, but because you yourselfs posted things, that exposed you as scum...

As you can plainly see, he edited an important part out of the post that he quoted. That seems kinda scummy.

If you look at some of my previous posts, as well as teedy's wall-o-text analysis (which seems pretty accurate in the karlos section), you will see multiple reasons why Karlos is scum.

thank you for your time, please vote.

[vonflare]

As you can plainly see, he edited an important part out of the post that he quoted. That seems kinda scummy.

How did his edit help him if he was scum?

It is possible that the post contained information he wanted everyone to see, but also information he knew could be used against him. He therefore used the oh-so-easy solution and just edited it out of his post.

sadly, this is very noticible and quite suspicious. the question is not "how does editing help him", but "WHY would he edit unless something in the post DIDNT help him"?

[vonflare]

hi awesomeusername. do you have a preferred nickname for the other players to use? your name is really long.

Hey thor, quick IC question, what is the subtitle under my username for (goon, papa smurf, etc..), and how do I change it?

[vonflare]

the post was 4 lines. you removed two. THAT WAS THE POST. don't tell me it was irrelevant. IT WAS THE WHOLE POST. you commented on the beginning and the end, but failed to even acknowledge the actual CONTENT of my post.

so tell me again how you decided the content was irrelevant, but the intro and outro were?

[vonflare]

My vote on Vonflare is pretty strong, and I dont understand what you mean with what is something you disagree with Thor about? And I was sheeping Thor so much, because so many players started voting on him and I wanted them to stop, for he is a very good player, that keeps the game interesting and IF he is town will help us tremendously find the Mafia.

He tries to deflect votes against him, and right at the end he strongly implies that he is town without actually saying it. hmmm....

and wait, how will sheeping someone make people stop voting for them?

[vonflare]

I think Salmonella is trying to deflect votes and straying them away from his mafia friend vonflare. I believe he and vonflare are the mafia guys because of their VERY suspicious behaviour and all of the reasons that you guys stated above.
VOTE: vonflare

and another thing...

You said something about that fish guy and me being scumbuddies.

Obviously this is false, but why did you vote ME, instead of the other guy you accused...?

just wondering on your logic. did you flip a coin or something, or was there a reason? because if I thought two were scummy, I would vote the more experienced one (fish guy) instead.

thoughts?

I chose you over Salmonella, becuase I knew I could enforce that vote better because other people already voted for you.

interesting choice of words.

enforce.

enforce the vote against you

@AUname, no townie would say that. they would say "because I knew people already called you scum", or "because you already have votes", not "because I can

enforce

the vote against you."

He didn't even say I was scum in the reason he voted me over salmon. He just said he could enforce the vote.

I know I sound like a broken record here, but NO TOWNIE WOULD SAY THAT.

[vonflare]

I just read all of surye's posts, one after the other, and in all of his posts he has made no effort to try to find scum. this has me convinced that he and karlos are the scum. they also have never mentioned each other AT ALL, except to say meaningless fluff to each other, such as "As you like to kill sheep I presume that you are a... WOLF! " (from surie to karlos)

Therefore, if there were 2 scums, they would be surye and karlos.

[vonflare]

um, mod, I think you made a mistake. awesomeusername is voting. he voted karlos in his large post on page 7.

---

I didn't had my glasses on.
Fixed.

[vonflare]

And why cant I express myself more eloquently? Enforcing is a great word! And there are many players from all over the world (me Germany!! ), so I wouldnt judge one, on how they express theirself. Not everybodys english is at the same level.

He dosen't even defend himself. he says enforce is a good word, but HE DOSENT SAY HE ISNT SCUM.

think about it. Townie would say "I'm no scum!", scum would try to distract you into focusing on something irrelevant and time consuming ("Enforce is good word!"). how relevant is that?

[vonflare]

It's just that the overall tone of his posts are generally unhelpful and even misleading.

Also, he seems to be trying REALLY hard to make friends with Thor.

We need some more votes here!

[vonflare]

As Thor is the IC and we are in the RVS I will go along with him.

huateasa

After all thor did always do the talking for me, so I didnt have to explain too much... Put that aside, I am currently very busy and I dont have too much time to invest in the game till next week, thats why I am playing very reserved just going along, besides me being a newbie. I am still convinced that vonflare and Sardella are naughty people. Kay and ullysses seem fine to me atm and imo Thor is just trying his best to Show us other guys how to play the game, he is definitley a good guy and I hope he deosnt get killed next round by the mafia. :S

My vote on Vonflare is pretty strong, and I dont understand what you mean with what is something you disagree with Thor about? And I was sheeping Thor so much, because so many players started voting on him and I wanted them to stop, for he is a very good player, that keeps the game interesting and IF he is town will help us tremendously find the Mafia.

for [Thor] is a very good player, that keeps the game interesting and IF he is town will help us tremendously find the Mafia.

Have we played together before?

No, but already with your first few posts, one could see, how experienced you were.

Right from the beginning, up to now, trying to make friends with thor. Maybe so he can get on thor's good side, and discourage thor from voting him, or maybe even convince thor to vote with him later in the game? because he can't be nightkilled, so the only way for him to die is by lynch.

[vonflare]

I have some questions:

karlos, what do you think about surye and hua? out of those two, who do you think is more scummy?

surye, do you think karlos is scum, or town? why?

hua, what would you do if I (or anyone else) put you at L-1?

[vonflare]

thanks.

sorry I've been away. weekends are busy.

alright, now I've gotta read through the 100+ posts I missed.

wish me luck...

[vonflare]

I moved my vote, cause I was not getting anywhere near it.

Now maybe a new aslect to think about, especially after your question to sardella, AUN, are Thor und Vonflare setring us all up!? I mean we all know that Thor is the experienced player in this forum. Maybe thats why hs thought he could pull this off. I am not sure, and I am just sugfesting it, so leople can think about it and check their posts.
I personally am not sure. I think they are totally capable of pulling that off and the only way to check if they are setting us up is to kill one of them. But I would wait with sich things, as maybe one of them gets nightkilled and so we dont have to waste tempo. Now AUN, why did you move your vote back to me, after I moved my vote to Hua?

where the fudge did you get this?!? How is this logic?
let me synopsize: Thor is experienced. lets kill him. If he's scum, then vonflare is scum too, because ERBQ#$WEBE.

VoteCount 1.10

Thor665 (L-4):

huateasa

Karlos4 (L-2):

vonflare | TeedyKay | Surye
>

Huateasa (L-1):

Thor665 | SalmonellaDreams | Ulysses96 | Karlos4

Not Voting:

awesomeusername

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline is Janurary 19, 3:30 PM EST.
Countdown: (expired on 2014-01-19 15:30:00)

So, (wifom of it all aside) we can be reasonably sure of one of two things (one or the other):

1: HUA is scum. (personally don't think so)
OR
2: HUA is not scum, and, seeing as though HUA hasn't been hammered, we can be fairly sure that one or both scum are already on the wagon. Thor has given a legit reason for voting, so we can ignore him in this analysis. this leaves Karlos, Salmon, and Uleses.
To me, Karlos has given like no reason for hopping on.

All in all, I am fully convinced Karlos is scum.

[vonflare]

@Vonflare they havent posted anything in such a long time. I cant even seem to find their last posts. As soon as I get to use a computer I will take a look at their posts. I dont believe in my forementioned accusation of you and Sardella... Since then both of them havent contributed anything to this forum, so I am quite clueless. Lets see... As they are not helping us it wouldnt be a big as a loss if they get killed and maybe one of them is scum, if not it will help us narrow down anyways, so my vote goes to hua putting him down to an L1.

VOTE: huateasa

ok here it is.

He accuses me and some other guy of a bunch of stuff, and then suddenly, in the last sentence, votes HUA with absolutely no reason other than for the sake of putting him at L-1.

ummmm...... what problem do you see here?

[vonflare]

got some questions:

Hua: Do you think Karlos is scummy? why or why not? If he were at L-1, would you vote for him?

Karlos: Why do you think hua is scum? legitimate answer this time please.

Thor: if Hua is lynched and flips town, who would you think is scum then? and if he flips scum, then who?

Awesomeusername: who do you think, between Hua and Karlos, is more scummy? why aren't you voting?

salmonella: what do you think of Hua voting you? also, do you think Karlos is scum or town? why?

[vonflare]

hmmmm...

Alright, so will anyone on the Hua wagon submit intent to lynch Karlos?

We need a claim out of him.

[vonflare]

wait a minute, there are 4 possibilities here:

Karlos is scum, Hua isn't: this is the most likely scenario, because karlos is voting hua, but hua isn't voting karlos, even though it would mean saving himself.

Karlos and Hua are scum: plausible, but if karlos is bussing hua, it would take a little more guts than Karlos has expressed so far.

Karlos and Hua are town: well, kinda possible, but the wifom is hurting my head.

Hua is scum, Karlos is town: highly unlikely, because if it were true, hua would vote karlos to save himself and get a mislynch. which, obvously, he hasn't. yet.
of course, if karlos flips scum, and hua voted for him, that would probably mean hua is town, mostly because if they were both scum, one wouldn't throw his scumbuddy under the buss day 1.

therefore, I believe that Hua is town, karlos is scum.

[vonflare]

got some questions:

Hua: Do you think Karlos is scummy? why or why not? He is at L-1. would you vote for him?

Karlos: Why do you think hua is scum?

question answered

question answered

salmonella: what do you think of Hua voting you? also, do you think Karlos is scum or town? why?

[vonflare]

Hey karlos? geuss what? you have an intent to hammer. that means you need to claim, or you will be lynched!

I see no claim in that paragraph.

and also, how is that quote relevant? it is the vote count from page two.

[vonflare]

ominous music plays

[vonflare]

Vonflare, you are voting on me, because I went against hua as the tide was flowing his way, right?

No. No, no, no. when did I say that? When did

anyone

say that? I am voting you because of all the scummy things you did / are still doing.

And I am actually rereading posts, but I jus dont see suspicious behaviour.

try reading your own posts.

Karlos, you are aware that you are at L-1 with an intent to hammer right?

I know you hate defenses and all, but now's the time to put up one and a bloody good one at that. If you feel a need to claim do so also.

Otherwsise

Then I will place my vote again

You may not get a chance to.

My words exactly. Karlos, you seem not to be aware you are on the brink of getting lynched. please put up some kind of defence so that we don't have to lynch you without you saying anything about it.

[vonflare]

Right AUN. Thats what I meant. Some of your accusations against me, are like ages old, and dont provide right material, as I stated my intents, opinions on them already!

@ Thor I habe been asking for reaskns why people voted me.
Now I believe Teedy could be Mafia. He always seem to be at the right moment there to hammer down on somebody. (Me couple of posts ago) And when he keeps VERY quiet, not allowing people to gain informstion about him. At first he is like dead silent, then he bursts out with a long text, analyzing players and just really saying everything tghere has been said and now he is keeping quiet again for like three days straight. I think we should give it a go. I want to hear at least what other people have to say to that. And finally get some infos concerning him when he defends himself.
So for now: VOTE: TeedyKay

Right now Karlos seems to be grasping at straws, jumping on every accusation and hoping to deflect attention from himself.

Also, Karlos, in the post after that one, you quoted a walloftext and said I didn't like you editing posts.
It was like the whole point of that post was to take a shot at me. You can edit the post if it saves the sanity of those reading it, but if the post is 4 sentances, yu can leave it be.

[vonflare]

Right AUN. Thats what I meant. Some of your accusations against me, are like ages old, and dont provide right material, as I stated my intents, opinions on them already!

@ Thor I habe been asking for reaskns why people voted me.
Now I believe Teedy could be Mafia. He always seem to be at the right moment there to hammer down on somebody. (Me couple of posts ago) And when he keeps VERY quiet, not allowing people to gain informstion about him. At first he is like dead silent, then he bursts out with a long text, analyzing players and just really saying everything tghere has been said and now he is keeping quiet again for like three days straight. I think we should give it a go. I want to hear at least what other people have to say to that. And finally get some infos concerning him when he defends himself.
So for now: VOTE: TeedyKay

Right now Karlos seems to be grasping at straws, jumping on every accusation and hoping to deflect attention from himself.

Also, Karlos, in the post after that one, you quoted a walloftext and said I didn't like you editing posts.
It was like the whole point of that post was to take a shot at me. You can edit the post if it saves the sanity of those reading it, but if the post is 4 sentances, yu can leave it be.

I actually emphasied that you are not scum, so that would clarify two things. I am not jumpy, my vote on Teedy is actually reasonable and therefore not scum.

so what you are implying is that since you think I'm not scum, I should think you aren't scum? That isn't how it works.

Dont kill me. I will explain reasons tomorrow. It is just so laborious to type them and I have to sleep now.

what? if you had time to type that, you would have time to type a little defence. this looks like stalling to me.

[vonflare]

got some questions:

Hua: Do you think Karlos is scummy? why or why not? He is at L-1. would you vote for him?

question answered

question answered

question answered

salmonella: what do you think of Hua voting you? also, do you think Karlos is scum or town? why?

still waiting for some answers...

[vonflare]

what.... oh, forgot the slash. XD

[vonflare]

to get things clear: I extra wrote the plain ol thing as I knew that peole tbought I meant to implied to be a power role which was falsely expressed i am just a vanilla townie.

then if you are scum, which many think you are, you being lynched will have a highly positive impact on the game.

if you are VT, you will have a minor positive impact (analasis of what people have said to you or about you) offset by the loss of one expendable member.

It's hammer time!

[vonflare]

@Teedy and Sarmonella In my opinion every townie counts, and even if there are some roles that are more important than others we should think wisely before just killing a townie to narrow votes down.
I jumped on the hua wagon as I had the deadline in mind and wanted to proceed things and cause so many people were voting against him/her. If he was scum it would of been great. If not it would have at least narrowed our choices down

Scumdar is pinging, i think you just blatently contradicted yourself. Correct me if im wrong but did you basically just say its a bad thing to kill townie to narrow choices down but its also a good thing to kill a townie if it means narrowing choices down?

However i do agree with you that it does help to narrow things down, scum are rarely lynched Day 1 anyway so we shouldnt be TOO worried if whoever we lynch flips town.

Ya. What the heck are you doing Karlos? contradicting yourself everywhere.

karlos said both of these things IN THE SAME POST:

"In my opinion every townie counts, and even if there are some roles that are more important than others we should think wisely before just killing a townie to narrow votes down"

AND

"If not it would have at least narrowed our choices down"

So... what.... are you saying?

VOTE: Hua

L-1

So you do not find Karlos's complete contradiction of himself in the same post a little bit suspicious? because you unvoted karlos to vote hua. just saying.

[vonflare]

If karlos's posts contradict each other, and ONE POST contradicts ITSELF, that is ridiculously scummy.

He can't seem to get his facts straight. and can't even stay on the topic.

so, karlos, I have a question: Is killing a townie just to narrow things down/for analasys good? or bad? because you have said BOTH. MANY TIMES.

IN THE SAME POST!

[vonflare]

oh, and ulysees, karlos isn't at L-1 anymore, I believe, after salmon unvoted him. so your vote would put him at L-1. not hammer.

and surye, what does that even mean?

It seems to vary depending on who is the one at risk of being killed which can be quite telling.

so what is it telling YOU?

[vonflare]

Narrowing our choices down

Listen, karlos. the issue here is you keep contradicting yourself. you just did it again in that post. You keep switching back and forth between "lynch town is always bad" and "lynch town is ok it provides information and narrows down choices"

It just seems like you are switching back and forth between the 2 statements whenever it suits you.

That is very scummy.

[vonflare]

Since Karlos had laid the groundwork for a fake claim but didn't do ti, i have to admit, despite how bad everything he says sounds, that I'm leaning town on him. It's not a great read but that's my take on it.

I thought about that too. But is it not possible (in fact, quite likely), that karlos, being a newbie, and not the bast with grammar (to his own admission) would not even have realized that he set the groundwork for a fakeclaim, and would have instead thought of the risk of a counterclaim, which would mean instant lynch if the counter came from someone reliable, like thor or awesomeusername.

I think he instead went with the low-risk claim of VT, hoping to dissolve the wagon and deflect attention with his conflicting logic. We need another voter, because uselees threatened to hammer him at L-2, which doesn't really work.

[vonflare]

Since Karlos had laid the groundwork for a fake claim but didn't do ti, i have to admit, despite how bad everything he says sounds, that I'm leaning town on him. It's not a great read but that's my take on it.

I thought about that too. But is it not possible (in fact, quite likely), that karlos, being a newbie, and not the bast with grammar (to his own admission) would not even have realized that he set the groundwork for a fakeclaim, and would have instead thought of the risk of a counterclaim, which would mean instant lynch if the counter came from someone reliable, like thor or awesomeusername.

I think he instead went with the low-risk claim of VT, hoping to dissolve the wagon and deflect attention with his conflicting logic. We need another voter, because uselees threatened to hammer him at L-2, which doesn't really work.

How about you actually quote the whole post and not just that teeny tiny sentence. Then it would actually make sense. -.- I am sick of repeating myself. I wrote that before, I was plaing noobish and using that as an argument, NOW NOT ANYMORE. Stop trying to get at me with contradictions that didnt take place and that I didnt use.
As for my grammar, it is fas good as anyones grammar in this forum. And I am perfectly aware of my actions. -.-

You did contradict yourself, tho. stop denying it. Please. It just makes you look more scummy.

I thought about that too. But is it not possible (in fact, quite likely), that karlos, being a newbie, and not the bast with grammar (to his own admission) would not even have realized that he set the groundwork for a fakeclaim, and would have instead thought of the risk of a counterclaim, which would mean instant lynch if the counter came from someone reliable, like thor or awesomeusername.

That is certainly a possibility.

But, at that stage, wouldn't a counterclaim be good for the scum team because then they'd know who a PR was? And if no counterclaim then he gets to live. So, that's 50% good for scum and 50% get to live, versus 50% lynch or 50% manage to live off a VT claim. I don't see what makes the second one any safer for him to do. Clarify?

Well, that would be sound reasoning, except that, unless karlos read a lot of games/read the whole wiki, it would be the newb mentality kicking in and going for the low-risk, low-reward option.

[vonflare]

thor, read the bolded portions.

@Teedy and Sarmonella In my opinion every townie counts, and

even if there are some roles that are more important than others we should think wisely before just killing a townie to narrow votes down.

I jumped on the hua wagon as I had the deadline in mind and wanted to proceed things and cause so many people were voting against him/her.

If he was scum it would of been great. If not it would have at least narrowed our choices down

obviously and give us more sprcific material to work with.

I trust we have your vote?

@useelees, why are you not voting karlos? put your vote where your mouth is.

[vonflare]

I agree with you that he contradicted himself there.
I'm not sure what his scum advantage was in doing so

What if this situation arose:
someone says "lets lynch {townie_playername} for information!"
karlos says: "ok! I always thought that was helpful!"
(for karlos to get a mislynch)

or this situation:
someone says "lets lynch {scum_playername} for information!"
(no one knows that this player is scum except karlos, because it is his scumbuddy)
karlos says, "no! lynching for information is bad! I always said it!"

So leaving both options open has a scum motivation, while it has no town motivation.

only 1-2 days left, we need a hammer here!

[vonflare]

@Karlos' VT claim: I forgot to weigh in last post, but I don't really think it matters. Town or not, I'm not even sure he realized he had set up the PR claim.

Completely agree

[vonflare]

yes, surye and useles are the two I thought were scum, besides karlos (sadly deceased), so ima VOTE: surye

btw, wadaya think about teedy being bumped off?

[vonflare]

@awesomeusername, why do you think ulesees is scum? any particular post?

@ulesees, what do you think of awesomeusername voting you?

@surye, why aren't you voting?

personally, I think surye is scum, because if I were surye and scum, I would have left thor alive to tunnel a mislynch. his mistake was commenting on it. I think.

[vonflare]

in my not-so-professional opinion, this is the chart of town to scum (towniest on top, scummiest on bottom)

Hua
Salmon
awesomeusername
Thor
Ulesees
Surye

BTW, mod, you spelt thor's name wrong in the votecount. sorry if it is irrelevant, I just wanted to point it out.

[vonflare]

Thor is making sense atm. surye looks like a good day 2 lynch.

[vonflare]

wait, wut? thor, are you arguing that surye or hua is scummier? your above post is a little confusing.

[vonflare]

wait, wut? thor, are you arguing that surye or hua is scummier? your above post is a little confusing.

I don't see how my stance is hard to figure out on who I think i sscummier since I have explicitly stated that a couple of times already today.
My above post was me describing why I find Hua scummy, I never indicated I didn't find her scummy - she is scummy and she should have been lynched yesterday.

so, why again are you voting surge? because your statement, that scum would leave you alive to lynch hua, means that you think that hua is town. please explain this?

[vonflare]

so, why again are you voting surge? because your statement, that scum would leave you alive to lynch hua, means that you think that hua is town. please explain this?

I don't understand how that confuses you - I read what you're asking and feel it makes sense on the surface. Here's what i hear;

1. Thor has two suspects.
2. He suspects him being alive suggests one is more likely to be town.
3. He is voting the other suspect.

Which part of that is confusing you specifically?

The part that is confusing is that in a previous post (which is in day 2 - cant look for it right now) you argued that hua is very scummy. but your argument against surye is based on the alleged fact that HUA IS TOWN.

let me paraphrase: thor says "surye is scum because it would be a scum move to leave me alive in the hopes of me tunneling hua and getting a mislynch." and yet you are also saying "hua is scum". so you contradict yourself because the argument you present against surye is based on your assumtion that hua is town. yet you also say that hua is scum.

have I explained it in enough detail for you?

anyways, I will have very limited access to the computer, as this is exam week. I will probobly not be able to participate very much until Febuary 1st. thanks.

[vonflare]

@Salmon and @vonflare: Would you mind elaborating a bit on your Surye votes? Since a major reason we're wagoning Surye right now is that the Karlos wagon was scummy, and the Karlos wagon was scummy partially because people weren't discussing, you're being a bit hypocritical. Both of your reasons are "I kinda thought he was scum yesterday" and neither of you said that much about him yesterday.

well, a major factor was (assuming hua is town) surye commented on thor not tunneling hua anymore. it would be a scum move to assume that thor would continue to tunnel a townie, in hopes of getting a mislynch.

@Thor: I was rereading and fact-checking in response to hua. I'm reading vonflare's response in 43 to your question as a yes, so he did think hua complimented and voted someone in the same post. I noticed that hua's interpretation of vonflare's post in 57 (her response to the first two quotes) doesn't directly contradict this.

Please look at the language used there and the language used later in expressing her opinion about my actions.
It starts with 'couldn't you see this' and ends with 'it's scummy Thor didn't see it this way' and the shift happens in direct correlation to me suggesting she, herself, is scummy. I find that scummy and I find that an inherent manipulation of reality for intentional purposes.

that is where you call hua scum. it is even on the same page you assume she is town, mind you. strange...

let's get more information on this thor character. he looks pretty shifty to me...

[vonflare]

some more quotes from thor that contradict each other

Spoiler:

That is not the logic, why couldn't you be scum, if she could vote you with impunity and without consequence. She wouldn't have had you lynched but could show the vote was there. You're make a illogical jump there.

If her end goal was always to hammer Karlos-town, why take the side adventure at all?

there you do it again. you call hua scum.

so, why again are you voting surge? because your statement, that scum would leave you alive to lynch hua, means that you think that hua is town. please explain this?

I don't understand how that confuses you - I read what you're asking and feel it makes sense on the surface. Here's what i hear;

1. Thor has two suspects.
2. He suspects him being alive suggests one is more likely to be town.
3. He is voting the other suspect.

Which part of that is confusing you specifically?

and yet here, you accuse surye of being scum. but your argument rests on hua being town.

1. Thor has two suspects.
2. He suspects him being alive suggests one is more likely to be town.

that right there is saying surye is scum. so what is your argument again? because it CANT be that 'hua town tunneling assumtion' thing, because that would be contradicting yourself IN THE SAME POST. karlos did that too, and he got lynched...

[vonflare]

oh yes, and VOTE: thor

[vonflare]

some more quotes from thor that contradict each other

Spoiler:

That is not the logic, why couldn't you be scum, if she could vote you with impunity and without consequence. She wouldn't have had you lynched but could show the vote was there. You're make a illogical jump there.

If her end goal was always to hammer Karlos-town, why take the side adventure at all?

there you do it again. you call hua scum.

so, why again are you voting surge? because your statement, that scum would leave you alive to lynch hua, means that you think that hua is town. please explain this?

I don't understand how that confuses you - I read what you're asking and feel it makes sense on the surface. Here's what i hear;

1. Thor has two suspects.
2. He suspects him being alive suggests one is more likely to be town.
3. He is voting the other suspect.

Which part of that is confusing you specifically?

and yet here, you accuse surye of being scum. but your argument rests on hua being town.

1. Thor has two suspects.
2. He suspects him being alive suggests one is more likely to be town.

that right there is saying surye is scum. so what is your argument again? because it CANT be that 'hua town tunneling assumtion' thing, because that would be contradicting yourself IN THE SAME POST. karlos did that too, and he got lynched...

oh yes, and VOTE: thor

EXACTLY. The spoiler is exactly why I am confused about Thor's stances about Hua. I'm not the only one. HALLEFREAKINLUJAH!!!!

Peachy.

Ok, thor. Question time. Do you think Hua is scum? If so, why? If not, why not?

Bert: Why did you hammer surye? You knew that if they flipped town, you would be the next lynch. How did you know surye was scum? what do you think about the bussing accusations?

Here is my thoughts:
I think the doctor/jailkeeper should claim, and say who they protected. since there is only 1 scum left, we could narrow down the targets by 2 (doctor + patient) or by 1 (jailkeeper, because we don't know if they protected or roleblocked the nightkill). So, personally, a doctor/jailkeeper claim would, I think be beneficial to town.

[vonflare]

I think it would be worth looking at what people have said in the past about surye. Because we know he is scum. See if anyone avoids mentioning him/tries to protect him.

[vonflare]

Here is my thoughts:
I think the doctor/jailkeeper should claim, and say who they protected. since there is only 1 scum left, we could narrow down the targets by 2 (doctor + patient) or by 1 (jailkeeper, because we don't know if they protected or roleblocked the nightkill). So, personally, a doctor/jailkeeper claim would, I think be beneficial to town.

actually, scratch that. I realized that it would be too easy for scum to claim jailkeeper and be set up for the rest of the game. NO CLAIMS PLEASE unless there is an intent to hammer.

[vonflare]

@awesomeusername: you asked for my opinion, here is is:

AUN looks completely town to me. I would, personally, not vote for him as the game stands, and a lot of other players are saying similar.

Mindgamer/Hua: Hua looked a little town-ish for a while at the beginning, mostly because he was making an effort to scumhunt, but no read from me, because Mindgamer is yet to post.

Useles/Bert: Random usleless comments, garbage fluff, garnished with random filler. Mix thoroughly, add Thor's vote, let simmer, and lynch when cool.

Thor: You are not seeing what we are asking you. listen carefully:
Basically, your whole argument against Surye was that Hua was town.
This means that you think (or thought) that Surye and Hua/Mindgamer must have opposite alignments.
Yet you say that Hua is scum. But you also say that Surye is scummier.
then, Surye flips scum.
You proceed to say that Hua is scum.
But you also say that Bert is scummier.
This looks to me like day 2 and day 3, you say "Hua is scum, but [someone_else] is scummier."
Now, if there were three scums, I would go ahead and say that Hua/mindgamer and Thor were the remaining. bu as there is 1 left, neither of these people seem to be scum-like, because the connection rests between all 3 of them.

Salmon: Kind of lurky, not really contributing a lot, staying in the shadows. leaning scum, but far from certain.

So to me, Bert seems the scummiest so far.

VOTE: Bert

[vonflare]

so scummiest to towniest:
BERT
SALMON
THOR
HUA
AUN

[vonflare]

sigh

.

ok then.

I'm tired of arguing this point.

[vonflare]

First up, I can most definitely assure you that I am NOT scum, contrary to popular misconception. It is, however, MyLo, so we need to step up the game a bit. I, personally, think that we should no lynch today, to narrow our targets down before the big lynch which makes or breaks the game for town. Anyways, I VOTE: no lynch if that is allowed.

Another thing, Bert, if you are reading this, WHY??? Did you vote for yourself?!? I mean, this is the lynch I originally wanted, true, but you could have at least put up some defence instead of giving the scum a free mislynch and nightkill!

And by the way, there is another way to say that you think that someone is scum, other than killing yourself. It is called VOTING.

Anyways, if we do No Lynch, I would be in favor of a mass claim in LyLo, so that we can get some claim-counterclaim going and hopefully confirm some town. If no one wants to do No Lynch, then I think a mass role claim TODAY would be helpful, but maybe not. The Doctor, at least, if there is one, should claim VT instead. (So that if we mislynch today we could still have LyLo tomorrow, should the doctor save the nightkill victim)

That’s just my opinion.

Also, I don’t think people should be allowed to self-vote. Just saying.

P.S. We need to look over Thor's posts, to see if he left any clues to his investigations.

[vonflare]

also, we know that this is the setup:
Mafia Roleblocker.......Town Cop.......Town Doctor
(because of the protection night 2)

surye was the non-roleblocker, so we have left:
1 town doctor
1 Mafia roleblacker
2 VTs

And if we do a mass claim, the doctor needs to claim doctor. so we know they aren't the scum.
Because if 1 person claims doctor and no counterclaim, then they are town.
If 2 people claim doctor, 1 is the doctor and 1 is scum.

Also, the doctor needs to say who they protected night 2, so we have a confirmed town.

LETS DO THIS!

[vonflare]

To do list:
no lynch (optional)
mass role claim
doctor needs to say who they protected night 2
scumhunt (narrowed down to 2 either way, because it is either the 2 doctor-claims, or the 2 non-doctor-claims. narrowed down further if the doctor can say who they protected night 2)

[vonflare]

TLDR: read my above post to-do-list. I am not scum.

[vonflare]

notsci, I think a roleclaim would be benifecial, because we have confirmed-ish town on salmon. that narrows it down to you and aue.

[vonflare]

and if the doctor-protected D2 is still alive, we have the scum instantly.

BTW, I meant AUN, not aue.

[vonflare]

I'l go first:

I AM A VANILLA TOWNIE

[vonflare]

And I assure you, I am not the scum, aun.

[vonflare]

and too late, ima claimer

[vonflare]

we need the doc to claim, so we know who they protected night 2! and if there are 2 doc claims, that clears EVERYONE ELSE!

are you just afraid it is a good plan? too good for your scum-genda?

because you havn't offered anything useful in your last 3 posts. you are just telling us to do nothing.

I would vote for you, but no-lynch I think is better.

we still need that doc claim tho!

AUN, consider yourself pseudo-voted.

[vonflare]

because of the protection night 2! the remaining scum CANT be a goon, becasue the only comp with a protective role AND a cop is the one with a doc/roleblocker!!!

READ THE MATRIX!!!!!!! (page 1)

[vonflare]

i gtg, be back later hopefully.

[vonflare]

I think a claim would be good. Gives us information, but we are in MyLo anyways, the identity of the doctor would not be TOO too much of an asset for the scum.

And no, the remaining scum does NOT know if it will work.

I

, however, do. And trust me, it will.

If there is no doctor claim, town is being stupid.

If there is 1 doctor claim, either that person ACTUALLY IS the doctor (likely), the real doctor is too VI to claim (less likely), or the scum didn't kill N2 (almost immpossible)

If there is 2 doctor claims, 1 is scum, effectively confirming the other 2 players as town (which would be the worst scum move)!

therefore, we can only gain from a doc claim.

[vonflare]

so that confirms AUN as town (he could not POSSIBLY be scum, even if notsci were lying.)

Notsci is most likely town, but, as AUN pointed out, a no-submit by mindgamer is possible.

Salmon is looking like the scum at this point.

so here is as it stands for each player:

to AUN: salmon or me looks scum (but it isnt me)

to Me: salmon

to Salmon: if, for some freak accident, is town, I look scum.

to Not sci: if he isnt lying, me or salmon looks scum.

Now here is why you can trust me on me being town:
I came up with a system that convicts MYSELF AND SOMEONE ELSE. No scum would do that. I want the town narrowed down more. Scum would not CONFIRM 2 TOWNIES (well, 1 and a half).

I confirmed 1 and a half (not sci had unlikely chance of lying) townies, you just have to trust me here.

I am not saying "vote for salmon". no, we need information first on salmon, drawing connections to surye.
Also, just to cover all the bases, check hua/mindgamer/notsci's connections too.

I gotta do some rereading, but I have V/LA untill monday, so please wait for me.

UNVOTE

[vonflare]

Just realized, how is it that Mindgamer protected AUN if he

never posted anything

So all this clears is AUN. the mafia could still be notsci claiming doctor if they didn't submit a kill. maybe.

@MOD: is doc protection compulsory? would you randomize it in the case of a no-submit?

@notsci: who did you protect the night thor died?

[vonflare]

@MOD: I thought it was 3 votes to lynch (half + 1)
Because what if 2 vote 1 person, and 2 vote another?
your last votecount says 3 votes to lynch.

[vonflare]

oh, wait. I see.

disregard my last post.

2 votes to no-lynch means that a majority cannot be gained on a lynch.

sorry.

[vonflare]

@players:salmon did get on the surye wagon pretty early...

but thing is, if notsci isn't lying, salmon must be scum!

So (trust me on this. please believe me. I am a townie. I want to find the last scum) either notsci or salmon are scum.

AUN can't, because the only way that is possible is that notsci is lying about who mindgamer protected (no motivation there.)

I am still trying to figure out if there was a no-submit nightkill on N2. was Surye VLA that night? because that would mean that notsci is scum.

if there was a submit on N2, and the doctor blocked it, then Salmon is scum.

so submit = salmon, no submit = notsci.

[vonflare]

WAIT A MINUTE!

I SOLVED IT!!!!

Surye was lynched right before the no kill!!!!
and since mindgamer was away, there was

no submission!!!!!!

NOTSCI IS THE SCUM!!!!!!

he claimed doctor because

HE IS THE GOON!!!!!!

It all makes sense now!!!!!!!!

the night after surye was killed, mindgamer was the last scum left! he was away, so there was no submission on night 2! then he was replaced by notsci, who is the goon! because there WAS NO SUBMISSION N2, the setup is actually just 1 cop! notsci is the GOON!!!!!

BADABOOM!!!!!!!!!

VOTE: NOTSCIENCE!

[vonflare]

Let me rephrase that:

The night 2 was no-kill because there was no submission.

There was no submission because surye was lynched and mindgamer was away (so he couldnt submit the kill)

so, mindgamer/notsci is the scum!

I guess thor was right about Hua!

[vonflare]

@vonflare: I'm not actually 100% confirmed, since I could be scum who didn't submit and also happened to be protected by the doctor.

We still need a claim from Salmon, incidentally. vonflare is looking pretty insanely town.

For the most part vonflare's analysis looks accurate, though there are a few logical jumps. Yes, the no submission the night Mindgamer was gone is fairly condemning, but Salmon's not actually cleared by that. I think one reason we're sorta clearing him is that we think Thor inspected him night 2. While I think Salmon is the most likely possibility for the inspection, I'm not sure he's the only one.

I'm like 80+ % sure notscience is scum though. I'll vote with you in a bit, vonflare; sorry for the over-paranoia. My gut doesn't like Salmon's slot.

This post looks pretty town.

Yes, we do need a claim from salmon.

in my eyes, it is 80% notsci and 20% salmon.

and the paranoia is fine. I wouldn't vote if I were you either.

Sal's town, and ns-scum doesn't fakeclaim. Ask Sal how that went for us in the newbie we were in together way back when.

Wouldn't ns-scum try and pass off thor investigating/clearing HIM rather than anything else?

1: meta is unreliable. changing strategies is easy.

2: what? why would he do that? thor always called Hua-slot (which is you) scummy! that would be scuicide!

VOTE: Vonflare

btw

the textbook definition of OMGUS. I am not getting lynched.

Salmon, please claim, so we can get to the lynching.

[vonflare]

I was shocked he had something submitted when I looked at my role-PM and saw he hadn't actually posted in thread.

yeah, nice try.

lets solve this.

@MOD: did mindgamer ever recieve his role PM? you can check whether he recieved it in your "sent PMs tab", if you didn't already know (you probnobly did).

[vonflare]

So why, again, are you voting me? reasons please.

[vonflare]

and also, what do you think about salmon? is there a reason you voted me over him?

[vonflare]

you still havent answered my question of who you protected on the night of thor's death

[vonflare]

assuming your claim to doctor is real, which I doubt.

[vonflare]

@SALMON

what is your opinion on all of this? what is your claim? do you think mindgamer would have doctored if he never posted? do you think notsci is scum?

[vonflare]

great. AUN, you in?

This is for the win.

[vonflare]

Face it, notscience, it's over. we win.

We are just waiting on the AUN-hammer

[vonflare]

good game all, btw.

[vonflare]

WOOHOOOOOOO.

I have earned perma-towncred on every forthcoming game.
XD
Just kidding.

Anyways, that was fun! thanks GuyInFreezer and Cabd, as well as all the players. Hope we play again sometime!

Thor investigated me N3? well, alrighty then! I thought he would investigate hua-slot for sure.

Well, GG, and thanks!

[vonflare]

I would also like to point out that my slot was never even voted for the entire game.

Really? wow.

You are the ultra-town.

Thx for the feedback thor, I will remember!

I cant believe Mindgamer picked up his PM, replied to it, and yet never posted! Who would do that?

great job all. good luck in future games!

[vonflare]

and thor, thanks for the great "how-to-play-a-cop" bread crumbing lesson! If I ever play a cop, I will try to do it well.

[vonflare]

Yeah, if I hadn't checked you I would have still been focused on Hua Day 2.

well, that still would have resulted in scum lynch