Mewbie 1461 ~ Game Ovah

[Aisa]

I /confirm!
Happy new year everyone! Let's enjoy this game together.

[Aisa]

VOTE: Spaces
Your username begins and ends with the same letter. I'm the only one allowed to have that feature

[Aisa]

@TSO:

There are approx. 29 hours between the moment Mala posted and your first post in this thread. In that time frame you posted various times in other games. Why didn't you post here? Did you intentionally delay your post?

[Aisa]

I got my role PM and promptly forgot about it. Mala

has

to remind me about it.

I assume you meant "had".

@Mod: Can you confirm this, please?

[Aisa]

@shewrf:

We are currently in random voting stage (RVS). We vote people randomly until something suspicious comes up. Why aren't you voting someone?

[Aisa]

Oh, I forgot:
VOTE: shewrf

[Aisa]

My voting him/her put us out of RVS? Great, exactly what I hoped to accomplish.
If I didn't know what RVS is, skimmed through the thread and saw people voting each other with no reason, I would at least be vaguely curious and

ask

instead of just confirming and then disappearing. It takes just a couple more seconds.

A couple more interesting things came up, but I'm kinda sleepy right now so I'll just go to sleep and leave them for tomorrow.

[Aisa]

@shewrf:

Your votes need to be

bolded

, you can do this in this way:

Code: Select all

[b]Vote:Malakittens[/b]
or
[vote]Malakittens[/vote]

Now, there are some problems with your last post:
1. We are past the RVS stage now. When I posted my question we were still in RVS, and as so a random vote would have made sense, but at this point of the game it is useless.
2. You didn't answer my question:

@shewrf:

Why aren't you voting someone?

"Sorry, I didn't know I had to" is an acceptable answer, but I

want

one.
3. You are passive, waiting for others to ask you questions and tell you things to do. So far, you have only reacted to my post.

My vote stays on you.

[Aisa]

@TSO:

What's going on in #32? Was that

only

a semi-random vote? Were you buddying me?

@Bert:

I don't like #36. Was a joke all you had to say after almost 2 days from your last post?
What do you think of the game so far?

@Spaces:

You haven't contributed much either. Let me copy your post #37:
Why so quiet, Spaces?

@Zekrom:

Is there anything you think is worthy of note, except Quill's post?

[Aisa]

@Bert:

I don't like #36. Was a joke all you had to say after almost 2 days from your last post?
What do you think of the game so far?

Yessir. Only a joke.

I think the game is progressing at an adequate pace, and I have nothing more to add at this time.

The nonchalance of your post makes me think slightly town.

...But on the other hand,

I asked you a question because I wanted to make you contribute more in this thread. Given your experience you probably knew that. Yet you didn't do anything. So my question this time is, "why?" Elaborate as much as you can. "There was nothing to comment on" is not an acceptable answer. Explain why previous events didn't seem worthy of note, if this is the case.

VOTE: Bert

The same applies to everyone who hasn't contributed much until this point. There are 70 posts in this game now, go read them all and find something suspicious. There are way too many lurkers in this town.

[Aisa]

There's no reason to vote obvtown.

Aisa, are you an alt? Because you're tossing out towntells everywhere and it worries me.

The way you answered my questions was a bit odd, you didn't explicitly answer them. I can imagine the implication (I voted him because to me you're obvtown, that's the only thing I meant in my post), but nowhere in you post

explicitly

says that.

Not an alt.
Why on Earth would it worry you?

[Aisa]

@Mod: I believe shewrf and Kublai Khan are due for a prod.
Pedit: Oh wait nevermind.

Aisa's opinion on the players

shewrf:

He last logged in 3 days ago, I doubt he will be back. It's hard to know what was on his mind...

Zekrom:

Another who hasn't posted much. I think he honestly didn't notice the humor.

Quill:

Hi Quill. You know, there is a middle ground between barely posting at all and saying with 100% certainty a player is scum.
In post #35 you didn't hesitate too much before voicing your suspicion of T S O. In [http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5595457]#79[/url] you "are hesitant to trust your guesses for scum". The discrepancy makes me think you could just have made up some excuse for your inactivity.

Spaces/Drake:

Curious how Spaces pointed out another member's inactivity while she was inactive herself. In her (his?) other game, Newbie 1441, she was scum and kinda screwed up, which makes me think the that slot may be scum also this time and she might have left because she was afraid of screwing up again/frustrated/whatever.
Oh, wait, I notice that the other scum in the game was Drake. Now this is interesting, I should have a look at the game later.

Khan:

He needs to post more; but I do like the few posts I've seen coming from him. Every post seems made with a town mindset.

Dean:

Leaning Town. He has been fairly active and has tried to generate discussion, which is a good sign.

Bert:

#71 pretty much sums up what I think about him.

T S O:

Lean scum for #77. The vibe I get from it: "The game is slow, but it's not my fault! I'm a good townie! Don't lynch me!"

[Aisa]

Claiming that he himself would be in any form pulling the game is not very town.

Drake, let's re-read what you've wrote.

2) Me pulling the game in terms of activity is quite towny. Not scummy.

His (and my) problem is not with you pulling the game. It's with you

claiming

to pull the game.

3) I'm calling out Bert over KK because I know Bert and I know he's good. ISO'ing me, that should be clear.

I have no clue what you're trying to say.
1. You know Bert.
2. You know he is good.
3. Why does that make you more likely to call him out?
4. Why does that become clear if I ISO you? I tried and still don't understand what you're saying.
5. Then why are you voting KK?

@Drake:

I think you're reading a bit too much between the lines. Humans are extremely good at picking up patterns, in fact we do that even when they don't really mean anything. I'm referring especially to your case on Quill in #78.

[Aisa]

Show me where I said that.

Click
Now answer my questions.

I like pizza :O

What a prod dodge
Are you going to play the game?

@Bert:

Your first game seems different to me. You actually posted regularly until you went V/LA. Shewrf has posted three times, basically avoiding to play the game and interacting with anyone. There is a difference.
And you didn't answer my earlier question.

[Aisa]

Oh, wait, dammit.

Bert should get votes if he doesn't step up. Full stop.

My activity has been decent. I cannot, by myself, pull this game along. It needs activity from all. If everyone here posted twice a day, we'd really be able to get moving.

You didn't claim to pull the game in this post, you just said that your activity has been decent. That kinda forces me to reconsider my position.

[Aisa]

@T S O:

I'm still somewhat suspicious of you, but not as much as before. And you still need to answer my questions.

@Drake:

Why did you say in #78 that T S O claims to pull the game?

@Bert:

I didn't try to meta you.
Let me rephrase my post:

@Bert:

You claim that shewrf's play is very similar to your first game, but between your first game and his play there are differences. You actually posted regularly until you went V/LA. In this case Shewrf has posted three times, basically avoiding to play the game and interacting with anyone.
And you

still

didn't answer my earlier question.

[Aisa]

@Bert:

I don't like #36. Was a joke all you had to say after almost 2 days from your last post?
What do you think of the game so far?

Yessir. Only a joke.

I think the game is progressing at an adequate pace, and I have nothing more to add at this time.

The nonchalance of your post makes me think slightly town.

...But on the other hand,

I asked you a question because I wanted to make you contribute more in this thread. Given your experience you probably knew that. Yet you didn't do anything. So my question this time is, "why?" Elaborate as much as you can. "There was nothing to comment on" is not an acceptable answer. Explain why previous events didn't seem worthy of note, if this is the case.

VOTE: Bert

The above post was dedicated almost entirely to you

[Aisa]

(I think the generally accepted standard for votes is that they count even without an unvote, unless the rules state otherwise.)
Paying attention to vote counts ≠ Preoccupation with wagons forming

[Aisa]

@Everyone except Bert, Dean:

What do you think of shewrf?

@Bert:

We want less promises and humor, more content.

[Aisa]

I think we need to get the shewrf situation solved, hence the first question. The probability of him having a sudden change of heart and deciding to actually contribute to the game is slim at best. I hoped he was gone for good, but he then appeared and made a random post :/
Maybe a more accurate question would be

Do you think we should do something about shewrf?

That second line is less a question and more a request.

Thank you! That's a valid question. My contributions have been rather subpar, even for my low standards, I must say. I shall work on that.

So what do you call that final sentence? I call it promise.
I'll find you more examples if that's what you want.

Yesterday you said your contributions have been subpar, I don't understand your sudden change of opinion.

[Aisa]

Shewrf:

what the hell is wrong with you? You make me want to shout at the computer. I kinda

need

my vote right now, so I'm not voting you, but otherwise I'd be. Let me explain the situation ONE LAST TIME.
RVS is a stage

in the first few Real Time days

used to get the game started. Once someone picks up on something suspicious, it's over! No RVS anymore!
Now we are voting based on actual real suspicion.
You are currently suspected by pretty much everyone in the game because you are doing nothing useful.
Now there are 2 possibilities: you start actually contributing or we get rid of you in some way.

I think we should wait a little bit before lynching shewrf. Either we decide to lynch someone else, shewrf gets replaced in some way, or he still doesn't get it together and then we lynch him.

VOTE: Zekrom25
50% suspicion, 50% pressure.
Your suspicion of shewrf is obviously justified. YES, he is very suspicious. YES, his I like pizza post seems like he's avoiding to post. But you fail to consider two things:
1. As improbable as it sounds to you, he could just be a clueless new player.
2. Scum can be very good at this game. Most people are good enough to avoid outright giving away they are scum in one single post. Scumtells are rarely obvious.

You have dodged some questions.
So after you finish "viewing everything", tell us if there's anyone else which seems suspicious to you.

[Aisa]

I think Bert wouldn't be this moany as scum, though I'll have to meta him.

This is a bold lie.

Because you do not know my scumplay. You aren't focusing on the present, but rather offering experimental observations/analysis about something you have never encountered before in recent memory.

That is neither a bold lie nor experimental observation/analysis. It's an opinion.

Lie:

an intentionally false statement.

Opinion:

a view or judgement formed about something,

not necessarily based on fact or knowledge

.

Since his post makes it very clear that it is an opinion (I

think

) you had no reason to call him out unless I'm missing something.

VOTE: Shewrf

He won't be replaced. Him or Zekrom seem to be a viable lynch.

How likely do you think it is that shewrf is just a clueless townie? How about Zekrom?

Unvote: TSO
Vote: Shewrf

Because at least Zekrom's posts have been entertaining, and he might get it together overNight.

Same as Drake. Do you think shewrf is lying or do you just want to get rid of him in some way?

[Aisa]

Sorry for the triple post, ugh.

To clarify the last post:
Since his post makes it very clear that it is an opinion (I

think

Bert wouldn't be...) you had no reason to call him out unless I'm missing something.

[Aisa]

No, it's not my native language.
I don't really understand the purpose of your post.

[Aisa]

Thanks. But, you know, Google Translator and dictionaries exist.
Now, can you leave other comments like this for postgame and stop buddying me?

[Aisa]

It's mostly better safe than sorry. I know it's not an absolute scumtell.

[Aisa]

Fair enough.

[Aisa]

(Come on, Zekrom. I know you're watching us; say something.)
Sorry, I haven't had much free time in the last days. I'll try to stick around as much as possible in these last few days before the deadline.

I don't think we should lynch shewrf. He doesn't seem like clueless scum, there have been attempts to explain the situation.
He seems just a person who doesn't care even a little bit for the game. The best solution would be a force-replacement, sooo...

@Mod: Can we get a force-replacement for shewrf if enough people agree?

I do want to find scum. I feel quill would be my number 1 scum read. However, having shewrf even if he is a clueless townie he isn't really helping at all. To me I would rather have him gone then pursue quill. If shewrf is a scum then it is a win. If he is going to post once in awhile to avoid being replaced then how is he going to be a contribution to the town ?
Zekrom after his recent posts he seems more a bad townie to me now. I read into his posts now to someone who isn't quite sure to what to do at this moment in time.

So let's suppose for a moment shewrf is a clueless townie. Would lynch a clueless townie over your top scumread just for the sake of getting rid of him?
A lynch on a useless town is still a lynch on a town slot.
"If shewrf is scum then it is a win"
Thanks, captain obvious. One could make the same point for every player in every Mafia game ever.

Your change of opinion on Zekrom is kinda fast... it's also backed up by incorrect logic. Not being sure of what to do isn't indicative of alignment.

[Aisa]

@Mod: Can we get a force-replacement for shewrf if enough people agree?

...Should I take that last post as a no?

[Aisa]

Zekrom is due for a prod.

Mod, if a collective vote is what we need to convince you, I'll start it.

Yes

, I believe we should force-replace shewrf.

Kublai:

So, have you decided to give up on or to postpone your case on Dean?

Dean:

Bert's erratic behavior seems to me more his posting style than an indication of his alignment, although I'm far from knowing for sure.

Bert:

Explain and clarify post #96, since your first game is not similar to shewrf's.

[Aisa]

Hey Zekrom. Pick two players in this game and explain your read on them.

[Aisa]

People have to eat, sleep, work, go to school and a ton of other stuff except sticking to a computer screen 24 hours a day.
He may simply not be available in this moment.

[Aisa]

Hey Zekrom. Pick two players in this game and explain your read on them.

Kublai Khan - town
T S O - town

I meant, pick two players from this game (KK and TSO are fine) and tell us

why

you think they are town/scum.

quill - what is your view on who's town ?

Drake - what is your view on who's town ?

I like this.
UNVOTE: Zekrom25

If I could, I would probably lynch Kublai Khan.

Why?

I'll be getting some RL stuff done, then rereading the last pages and deciding my top suspect.

[Aisa]

I've been trying to meta Drake Crusader by reading the only completed game of his I can find, newbie 1441. He was scum in that game. My observations:
- As far as I can tell his play in this game and the one I checked is similar.
- I'm pretty sure I had no idea what I was doing though.
- I suck at meta'ing.

quill - what is your view on who's town ?

Drake - what is your view on who's town ?

I like this.
UNVOTE: Zekrom25

I don't follow.

If I could, I would probably lynch Kublai Khan.

Why?

I'll be getting some RL stuff done, then rereading the last pages and deciding my top suspect.

Shewrf being inactive is one thing - he's a newbie. KK is far more older and experienced and I don't like the way he was about to lurk out the d1 lynch.

I liked his post because he was trying to generate discussion by asking some of the most inactive players questions. I think it's much more likely for town-Zekrom than scum-Zekrom to do that.


I just thought KK was still having some computer problems.
But if that weren't true, I get how it is suspicious.

[Aisa]

That giant text scared the crap out of me.

Hey Zekrom. Pick two players in this game and explain your read on them.

Kublai Khan - town
T S O - town

I meant, pick two players from this game (KK and TSO are fine) and tell us

why

you think they are town/scum.

I'm still waiting for an answer.

Just finished playing some MMO, pretty drunk now, so I wont be placing a vote here,, I'd like you ALL to tell me 3 things:

1)Who are your top 2 scum picks.
2)Why you think they are scum
3)Who is your top(1) town read.

1+2. Drake Crusader. Looking at his ISO, he has only played around with a shewrf lynch (promptly retracting statements as soon as someone points out that something is wrong) and accused TSO + Quill based on some patterns that could very possibly be casual.
Speaking of which,
VOTE: Drake Crusader

I'm not sure about who should be in the second spot. More on that in my next post as this one is getting kinda long.

Seriously I largely prefer getting townreads over scumreads.

3. Quill.

[Aisa]

As a player who, if given the chance to continue, is going to avoid using meta as a player, I say without hesitance (and very directly) that TSO is the most scummy player in this game so far, based on his play in this game.

That is based on his lack of logic and general direction or progression

in his reads.

Vote: TSO

Now explain this to me Bert.

[Aisa]

Stuff I find suspicious:

Unfortunately we don't have that long to wait for an analysis. We have 1day and 20 hours until the deadline.

This post always sounded off to me for some reason, but I never figured out why until now.
Your post has no purpose except that of complaining about how bad the situation of the town is. If a player is truly busy, your complaining is not going to change the situation. If a player isn't really busy and is faking, then shame on him, but your complaining

still

doesn't change the situation.

I also don't like DH's push on the shewrf lynch. I get that people have different opinions on what is scummy/what is not, but shewrf either was trying to annoy us or he didn't have any reason whatsoever to act the way he did as either alignment.

I need to recalculate. I was hoping someone would take the bait via my accusations, but here I am with no one legit scumreading me and wanting me lynched. I'm stumped.

Vote: shewrf

Because deadline!

As a player who, if given the chance to continue, is going to avoid using meta as a player, I say without hesitance (and very directly) that TSO is the most scummy player in this game so far, based on his play in this game. That is based on his lack of logic and general direction or progression in his reads.

Vote: TSO

Watch the lack of progression in Bert's ISO, though. He needs rope.

Given the timing, I don't think you're making a valid point. In #215 he said he needed to recalculate. Later he voted shewrf because the deadline was approaching and there was a need to lynch someone immediately. That doesn't mean he gave up on trying to get a read on the other players - I think he just postponed it because lynching anyone other than shewrf would have been pretty hard at that time.
Once shewrf got force-replaced and we got some extra time he focused his attention on someone else.

[Aisa]

Stuff I find suspicious:

Unfortunately we don't have that long to wait for an analysis. We have 1day and 20 hours until the deadline.

This post always sounded off to me for some reason, but I never figured out why until now.
Your post has no purpose except that of complaining about how bad the situation of the town is. If a player is truly busy, your complaining is not going to change the situation. If a player isn't really busy and is faking, then shame on him, but your complaining

still

doesn't change the situation.

I also don't like DH's push on the shewrf lynch. I get that people have different opinions on what is scummy/what is not, but shewrf either was trying to annoy us or he didn't have any reason whatsoever to act the way he did as either alignment.

I don't think you can call this complaining. I was stating fact. We did not have that long to wait for an analysis. And I was clear in my intention that I wanted shewrf to be lynched. When was that ever not clear? If you recall, in #217, I explained my reasoning for wanting shewrf over Bert, and had been stating that I wanted shewrf over Bert for a while before that.

And what about shewrf lurking incessantly and posting extremely randomly was beneficial to the town? He was not beneficial. And a wagon on him along with a lynch would've given us information about him in day 2, whether he flipped town OR scum. As I also stated in post #217.

Initially into the day I was not okay with a shewrf lynch because of the high probability that the position was town. Then I started to become more comfortable with it JUST because we'd get a ton of information:
1. Who was on the wagon
2. Who wasn't on the wagon
3. Who wanted him lynched/pushed for it beforehand
4. Who just jumped on toward the end (Bert)

AND we'd have the benefit of having a nonexistent player GONE.

AS you might also recall, I stated that this was all BECAUSE of the fact that it was improbable that Malakittens (as stated by Malakittens) would replace shewrf.

So I don't see your point Aisa.

My vote is staying on Bert because I suspect him the most. Though I'm annoyed at having to repeat myself.

Imagine the following situation:
in a game, Mafia kills the town cop N1. The following day someone posts this: "Oh no! The cop is dead!"
Was the player in that game stating fact? Yes.
Does it

[Aisa]

Sorry, I seriously messed up.

[Aisa]

...Imagine the following situation:
in a game, Mafia kills the town cop N1. The following day someone posts this: "Oh no! The cop is dead!"
Was the player in that game stating fact? Yes.

Does it make the player less scummy? No.

A huge part of the information derived from shewrf's lynch is really WIFOM. And it's not like we can afford to lynch a player just for the sake of getting information which isn't vital to the town.

I'm going to be around only for another hour or so, and I'm willing to be the hammer so T S O should probably claim now.

[Aisa]

...
Right, then. Obviously lynching you is not an option anymore.
I don't know if we have the time to lynch someone besides Bert. He is about null in my eyes so I'm almost fine with his lynch.
VOTE: Bert

[Aisa]

I'll be a bit busy until the 30th. I should still be able to post regularly, but do not panic if I disappear for a day or two.

I think that T S O and Dean are telling the truth.
Also I realize now that I almost completely ignored Picard's posts for whatever reason yesterday. I shall probably go back and check.

[Aisa]

I think I'd prefer a Picard lynch over a KK lynch.
To add to the evidence others have presented already:

I really hate that claim.

If you are scum, you will obviously not die tonight and tomorrow claim "The scumz knew I couldn't be killed"

Meanwhile if Bert is town, we go into tomorrow with 7, 2 scum still left, if we mislynch then, D3 = Lylo.

I'd rather lynch you and know we have a jailkeeper or a tracker who could prevent a death or find out who is scum with a correct track.

My vote stays.

Vote: Captain Picard

last minute traction?

That's just stupid, why are you trying to start a new wagon at this point in time?! Are you TRYING to do a NL?

@Quill - If I am so scummy to you based on your post, why didn't you vote me?!

Notice how he tries to push a lynch on T S O, and then goes on to complain about KK trying to lynch someone that isn't Bert.

[Aisa]

Bert was up also when you posted #333. At the time there were just a couple hours until deadline and Bert was at L-2. I think it was pretty clear he was going to be lynched.

I'm not even sure myself why I think Picard is scummier than KK. It's my gut - there is

something

wrong but it's extremely hard to explain.
So tell me, why do you prefer KK over Picard?

[Aisa]

1. KK is town (AS he stated in the beginning, playing against your win condition is against the rules, and encouraging his death speaks of wanting town to get farther/he's acting as a sacrifice of sorts so we get info in the night).

That is one possibility, but it might just be a gambit. It's not that unlikely at all, when you consider that KKscum hasn't got much to lose. At worst, he gets lynched and loses a game he probably isn't going to win anyway.

I think Zekrom is town.

I am VT.
My vote is my weapon and with that we come to a town win.
VOTE: KK

If he flips town this only leaves CP as my other option along with TSO and his fake claim.
CP slot was scummy before hand so why wouldn't it be scummy now?

Why is (was) KK your preferred lynch choice?
Why was shewrf scummy, and not just a troll?
Why is T S O scummy?

@Khan:

Why don't you want to defend yourself?

[Aisa]

If he flips town this only leaves CP as my other option along with TSO and his fake claim.

Wait, I just noticed this.

WHAT
THE
FUCK

I have posted and other have posted this, he is CONF FUCKING TOWN if no one claims BP...

Why the fuck are you trying to setup mislynches?!?!

UNVOTE: KK
VOTE: Drake

Kill him, track KK or I, dont tell us which one you track, if someone dies and the person you tracked didnt move, lynch the other.

Does this sound good?

This is a really poor post. It's clear Drake didn't think twice before posting about his suspicion on T S O. Otherwise, he'd have realized that T S O is conftown. Thus, he wasn't trying to set up a myslynch.

[Aisa]

@Drake:

Why didn't you answer my questions?

By the way, if you didn't look it up I bus my scum buddies hard.

If I were scum, and I had a meta of bussing my scumbuddies hard, I would try not to bus my scumbuddies. I assume that's what most sane players would try to do.

Also. Drake you're either really bad at this game or just not trying. Your play here compared to your other game is much more about posting "content" for content's sake. And that is a BIG scum tell. You're not actively participating and simply throwing your vote around whenever there begins a new wagon.
In which case if Picard flips town, no NK happens (or KK doesn't visit anyone), then you're my top lynch target for tomorrow.

I'm not sure if there's really this difference between this game and the other.
But let's assume for a moment that Drake is posting less content when compared to his other game.
That might actually indicate that Drake is town.
In his other game Drake was scum. If he prefers Mafia roles to town roles, then the difference makes sense. He is being less active and producing less content because he is less interested in the game.

[Aisa]

At this point, I don't care who gets rope, as long as it is us 3, this is a guaranteed win.

Regardless, you should get off me and get on drake, I even outed my main cuz I want to get a perfect town game under my belt

Why this change of opinion?

[Aisa]

I still think Picard is our best bet for scum. When thinking about other players, I can usually find some kind of town motivation in their posts. I ask myself, "Would town<player> do this?" the answer is generally yes. But this doesn't happen for Picard. I have trouble seeing him as town.

So, until something changes my idea,
VOTE: Picard

That's L-1.

[Aisa]

I am VT.
My vote is my weapon and with that we come to a town win.
VOTE: KK

If he flips town this only leaves CP as my other option along with TSO and his fake claim.
CP slot was scummy before hand so why wouldn't it be scummy now?

Why is (was) KK your preferred lynch choice?
Why was shewrf scummy, and not just a troll?
Why is T S O scummy?

@Drake:

Why didn't you answer my questions?

And why did you hammer Picard yesterday?

@Zekrom:

Why do you think KK is town? Why did you want to lynch

i agree drake is scum however Captain Picard didn't really answer my actual question

This post is hilarious.
"I agree Drake is scum! There is only one scum left, and if we lynch him we win the game!
However CP didn't answer my question. This is so bad that I'm willing to lynch him ignoring the possibility that he might have just forgot!"

[Aisa]

EBWOP:

@Zekrom: Why do you think KK is town? Why did you want to lynch Picard yesterday?

[Aisa]

I hope Drake is scum and wins

seems anti-town after saying that ^

Captain Picard made that a mis-leading read into thinking he was scum

as for me thinking KK being town it's a opinion i have

CP's post was clearly not intended to be taken seriously. He even added the smiley at the end. Please try to think more about your opinions.

If you're playing as town,

everything

in Mafia is an opinion. I want to know

why exactly you have this opinion

.

[Aisa]

I think we should lynch Drake today. He...

...is not putting effort in the game
...has contributed almost nothing
...lurked all the way through yesterday
...has been voting people for futile reasons.

His play does not benefit the town in any way. It doesn't seem like he cares a lot about who gets lynched.

[Aisa]

Zekrom you are reading the matrix incorrectly in case that wasn't clear enough.

[Aisa]

How matrix6

actually

works

By Aisa

Introduction

I would like to dedicate this guide to Zekrom25.
Uhh... that's about it.

	A	B	C
1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Goon
2	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Cop	Town Doctor
3	Town 1-shot Bulletproof	Mafia Goon	Town Tracker

The above is a matrix6 grid.

[Aisa]

You choose only one row randomly. In this case, it's column C.
You DO NOT literally fill the rest of the grid with vanilla townies and mafia goons.

[Aisa]

Dean was the Tracker. T S O is the Doctor.
I don't know how to be clearer than this.

[Aisa]

I am VT.
My vote is my weapon and with that we come to a town win.
VOTE: KK

If he flips town this only leaves CP as my other option along with TSO and his fake claim.
CP slot was scummy before hand so why wouldn't it be scummy now?

Why is (was) KK your preferred lynch choice?
Why was shewrf scummy, and not just a troll?
Why is T S O scummy?

@Drake:

Why didn't you answer my questions?

And why did you hammer Picard yesterday?

Drake, you missed this. I'm just going to add questions to the list until you either answer me or get lynched.

New questions:
You are so certain of Zekrom's guiltyness. Why? How likely do you think he isn't scum?
Why did you hammer Picard with a week left 'till deadline, without stating any reason for that?

[Aisa]

Seriously Zek no-one cares about your reads if you update them every 2 hours.

wouldn't a No Lynch be better than mis-lynching ?

@MOD PLEASE END THE DAY WITH A NO LYNCH

Why do you think a no lynch is better? Why the (rather poor) attempt at ending the day so early?
Note how this argument conveniently comes up in the moment it seems like you are about to get lynched.

Reaction test FYI

What does it tell you about Drake?

No, Kublai, I've concluded that no matter what, this guy shouldn't be getting near MyLo or LyLo.

^ not a very town-like thing to say

Why are you pointing this out, if T S O is confirmed town?
Oh wait you still think he is lying.

[Aisa]

You may totally be right.

[Aisa]

1. WHY do you think a no lynch is better? WHY?
2. WHY does his result seem scum like?
3. Uuuh no. Yesterday you had T S O as town. Today he is null-town. Another problematic thing you sometimes do is to change your reads as soon as someone questions them.

Remember, WHY is the magic word. I need you to answer my questions more thoroughly.

[Aisa]

What question(s) are you answering? Sorry but I don't understand.

[Aisa]

No, Kublai, I've concluded that no matter what, this guy shouldn't be getting near MyLo or LyLo.

^ not a very town-like thing to say

@Aisa

and my reason why TSO is now null / town

Great job contradicting what you just said a couple minutes ago.

2.05

With Eight alive it takes 5 votes to lynch

Voting:

*Quill -
*Drake Crusader - Captain Picard, Zekrom25 [2]
*Aisa -
*Captain Picard - Quill, TSO, Dean Harper, Aisa, Drake Crusader [5] [LYNCH]
*Zekrom25 -
*Kublai Khan -
*Dean Harper -
*T S O -

Not Voting:

Kublai Khan [1]

Countdowns

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2014-02-04 21:00:00)

@Aisa a mis-lynch ^

Oooh. A mislynch. I totally didn't notice that before.

[Aisa]

You're still not answering my questions in a way that makes sense or makes me feel like you're trying to help the town.
I'm getting tired of chasing you, explaining why your answers are not satisfactory and explaining my questions in a simpler way in the hope that you will finally get it.

I am thinking about lynching you, and I promise you I will if the situation doesn't change.

I feel proud that I finally have a case on Zekrom that proves he is scum.

@Drake Crusader why not night-kill me then unless your not scum

[Aisa]

I... don't know what to think.
I was just not convinced with the lynch yet.
I guess we did need do lynch him today... but, but... that was too fast for my tastes. Definitely too fast.

[Aisa]

Remember, do not put a player at L-1 before you are sure that is the player you want to lynch.

Putting a player at L-1 should be considered equal to lynching him, as that gives scum the possibility to quickhammer and win.

I feel Quill is most likely town, but I'll be checking him when I have time. I think it would have made no sense for him to kill Dean on night 2; among the non conftown players, he was and is the least suspected. He was in pretty good shape and didn't need to risk so much.
That is wifom, I know.

Drake, your posting style is awful. Like, half of your last post has flawed reasoning.
You are confbiased (or you fake being so). This basically means that when you think someone is scum, you see his posts under a scummy light, ignoring the motivations that town may have to act in that way.
During this game, when I looked at your posts, I sometimes thought "That makes no sense! I'm gonna get him lynched right now."
And, then, seconds later, "But wait no. He may just be not realizing how bad his reasoning is in this moment."
If you are town, then all is well and I did the right thing.
But, if you are scum, this is giving you an advantage. You are in a very convenient situation, because as it is now, you can do whatever you want and make no sense at all with few or no consequences.

I can't ignore that second possibility. So I warn you:
Starting from now, I'm going to treat every single of your posts that contains confirmation bias (or posts with obviously flawed logic, or basically anything that gives scum an advantage) as a scumtell.
You are going to stop for a few minutes every time you type a post to think, "Am I considering every possibility here?"

Sorry for the hard time I'm giving you.

[Aisa]

I just can't figure out why he would have targeted and killed Dean on N2, instead of TSO, who was clearly the bigger threat.

Think of it this way:
If Dean lived to d3, it would have almost surely guaranteed a town win. Even if we mislynched on that day, in Mylo we'd have 2 conftowns instead of only one.

Pretty sure im lynched.

Reads seem a little moot at this point, but ya'll got 3 confirmed town so things look good. If this thread is still open when I get home ill offer thoughts.

Picard, zekrom, drake, quill, (tso, aisa, dean)

Scummirst to townest. Good luck.

Oh hey, I'm not lynched. Forgot that nobody died last night. Okay, answering questions, stand by.

Actually, wait, let's talk about these, because I forgot about them until I ISOed KK. This guy spent two days thinking he was lynched and posting reads to help town (take my word for it; I thought the dates would show up and don't want to go back for them) before realizing he'd counted wrong. Can you see scum doing that, Aisa? Or pretending to miscount, but then waiting two days to come back and "realize" he's still alive?

There's other towntells in KK's ISO, but this is the key one for me. It's got to be Drake.

So much wifom. I think you are right...
...but I also think that my mind is sick of my inner monologues and is trying to convince to end this game based on whatever reasoning sounds even remotely plausible.

Aisa, any questions for me? We've got two pseudo-votes for Drake Crusader and 1 pseudo-vote for me.

See what I just said to Quill.
I'm somewhat suspicious of your hammer yesterday, but you did the intelligent thing of showing a gradual change in your opinion of Zekrom and not just hammering him out of the blue. And I think you were right in lynching Zekrom yesterday.
So, no questions. I have my suspicions, but I think at this point any question will just add another layer of wifom and confuse me even more.

[Aisa]

Noted , and it is fine! I need all the tips I can get. Just trying to learn my flow really.

I really thought we had scum with Zek, guys. I really did.

If Aisa is scum, she deserves to win this game, so I'm focusing on Kublai and Drake. Drake looks the most conventionally bad, with lurking through most of the game and now all of a sudden stepping it up with that long post on Day 4. But we've also managed to go from lynching scum on Day 1 to LyLo on Day 4, which suggests the possibility that scum's been orchestrating things the whole way through, which points to the more-active Kublai. I just can't figure out why he would have targeted and killed Dean on N2, instead of TSO, who was clearly the bigger threat.

Consider my pseudo-vote on Drake also. Drake, tell me why I'm wrong.

Well I feel that Aisa is 100% town. So she is off the list. I know I am town so that takes me off the list. I am concerned about KK or Quill. KK more than Quill about a 70/30 spilt. With Aisa being 0%.
I was in a busy period of school for solid two weeks so that led to my very limited activity however, with all the big snow days and the initial rush of quiz happy professors and massive homework life has calmed down a bit.
I feel to answer why he would post those reads is because he is a good scum. He has experience. He has a very well developed game and therefore know's how to fool town. Look at post 685. He already knows what actions would look scummy and even offered how he could of played it do be town.
Which is why I feel that he is scum #2.

I don't know what a pseudo vote is so I will just regular vote.
I can change to a pseudo vote right ?
VOTE: KK

A pseudo vote is a bit like finger of suspicion, hand of suspicion or any other way you want to call it. It's different from a normal vote because it does not count towards the official votecount. We use these because otherwise it would be too easy for the scum to hammer and win.

KK probably knows how to fool town, that's true. But it does not make him automatically scum.
Minor reasoning mistake, but I see how you could have done it. You're speaking like you are almost sure he is scum, which makes sense from a Drake-town perspective.

[Aisa]

I'll track who I decide to track based on my assessment of who is most/least likely to be scum. My track could be on any one of my scum targets. If I decide KK is the best bet, I'll track him.

There was never an official decision, as seen in this ^ post.

[Aisa]

...Yes. In that case, it would be a scum victory.

Actually, let's ask a few questions.

Drake

, what makes you feel that Quill is passive?
Why did you feel the need to ask that question about the scum victory?
Why do you think that KK is trying to score town points as scum, as opposed to a townie acting as a townie?

Kublai

, so what do you think of Drake?

[Aisa]

Currently, in the moment I am writing this post, I'm leaning towards a KK lynch.

I found something interesting.

I'm somewhat suspicious of your hammer yesterday, but you did the intelligent thing of showing a gradual change in your opinion of Zekrom and not just hammering him out of the blue. And I think you were right in lynching Zekrom yesterday.

@Aisa - What do you think of Post 640?

...It looks like he almost wanted to make sure I was fine with the lynch before he hammered.
KK, comment this.

[Aisa]

I feel like I owe an apology to the town; I've been so indecisive and paranoid these last days.

KK, you're doing a pretty good job at swaying me. I'm not sold on Drake yet, but you did change my opinion.
And looking at your ISO, you do have some towntells.

Drake's post 724 is

bad

. What I said at the beginning of the day:

Starting from now, I'm going to treat every single of your posts that contains confirmation bias (or posts with obviously flawed logic, or basically anything that gives scum an advantage) as a scumtell.

Not

one

of his posts this day was decent. He just continues to hilariously try to frame KK by using some random reasoning. It feels less like "I have X and Y evidence about KK and therefore want to lynch him" and more like "I want to lynch KK and therefore I'm gonna think of a reason to do so".

I need to think about it a little more, but I

promise

I will have a definitive answer by tomorrow. Consider my pseudo-vote on Drake.

[Aisa]

I think we're ready to lynch Drake.
I don't think I could be more convinced with the lynch than I am right now, so... let's do this.
VOTE: Drake Crusader

[Aisa]

I'm glad we made the right choice at the end.

Aisa, are you an alt?

I actually have another account, with which I played a couple games some months ago.
I replaced out from my first game (in a way I'm not really proud of) because I was the main suspect D1.
I then joined a second game, from which I replaced out too.
I don't think I'm ever going to use that old account again.

...So I guess I'm technically an alt

[Aisa]

You have no idea of just how paranoid I was D4. I ended up finding an excuse for every single scummy action Drake ever did.
I also didn't really think Bert was scummy, I thought he had a reason for acting in the way he did. What convinced me that the lynch was at least viable was when he contradicted himself in I-don't-remember-which post, but I still had no idea of what he would flip.

[Aisa]

I can relate with you about the alt thing and being ashamed about replacing out on an old acc

By the way, Aisa, I shudder to see you in a scum game.

Thanks <3

Zekrom, I understand your disappointment. But you have to understand that in this game people sometimes have very different opinions. In this case, when it came time to choose, the arguments against you just seemed stronger than the ones against Drake. For example, I asked you to explain your points against Drake better. You didn't.
You might be a great scumhunter, but that's useless if you can't convince other people.
tl;dr: You need to improve your ability to make cases. Once you do, I'm sure your life will be a lot easier.