Newbie 1728: Training Your Dragon Mafia [Game Over]

[PhantomCobalt]

First!
VOTE: Rusty
Rust = red = red color role = mafia

[PhantomCobalt]

1. Those aren't random questions.

2. Why are you so defensive from the start?

[PhantomCobalt]

[quote="In post 6, innocentvillager"
I know, SE's you probably hate me and are probably

going to call me out on doing useless bullshit

, but I think it's a good way to start the game and to get a baseline for how we expect to play this game.
[/quote]

[PhantomCobalt]

And this kids, is why you use the preview tool, let me fix that.

[PhantomCobalt]

I know, SE's you probably hate me and are

probably going to call me out on doing useless bullshit

, but I think it's a good way to start the game and to get a baseline for how we expect to play this game.

[PhantomCobalt]

1. Those aren't random questions.

2. Why are you so defensive from the start?

Someone seems rather aggressive.

RQS (Or QS) isn't my style and to be honest I really don't like it. It's just people making noise and either town or scum can tell the truth and not have to worry about towntelling. That and I am not reading useless walls of fluff page one. Nope.

VOTE: Cobalt

Let's see where this goes.

How is RVS any different?

[PhantomCobalt]

You aren't asked to regurgitate useless, NAI details such as your favourite film or icecream or whatever. Rather, we get an early indication of how people react under pressure (especially when wagoned) which is vital for spurring on discussion. That's why I think RVS is far, far superior to getting D1 underway than RQS.

That said, happy with my vote for now.

You say wagoning is the best way to get reactions, but you vote for me to put me at L-4, and not innocent to put him at L-2? Pretty weak logic.

[PhantomCobalt]

I'm going to vote who I think is less townie. Your sudden jump on innocent looked dodgy, hence my vote on you.

What about the wagon on innocent? Does that seem dodgy to you because it just appeared?

[PhantomCobalt]

Oh you wanna play that game Phantom = ghost = white innocence Cobalt = blue = peace where am i getting to? nowhere but you voted me so f you t(*-*t) VOTE: PhantomCobalt

To make your vote jump out more, use the "vote" button on the row above the text box you're typing in, it's 5 to the right.

[PhantomCobalt]

For my opinion:

In newbie games, experience questions are good.

In games outside of rome, experience questions are bad.

In all games, RQS is ok.

These eight, (or seven) questions people are answering, I would say 1-4 are experience questions, but 6-8 are questions you'll see in a regular RQS outside of rome.

[PhantomCobalt]

You aren't asked to regurgitate useless, NAI details such as your favourite film or icecream or whatever. Rather, we get an early indication of how people react under pressure (especially when wagoned) which is vital for spurring on discussion. That's why I think RVS is far, far superior to getting D1 underway than RQS.

That said, happy with my vote for now.

You say wagoning is the best way to get reactions, but you vote for me to put me at L-4, and not innocent to put him at L-2? Pretty weak logic.

Apparently, PhantomCobalt, Maverick1102's method just worked.

How so?

[PhantomCobalt]

Well, you aren't over reacting, so he has already see that you could handle pressure quite well.

Experienced players never over react to RVS wagons, because they know they are 99% not going to be lynched.

[PhantomCobalt]

Or rvs votes in general

[PhantomCobalt]

If that's the case, innocentvillager wouldn't over react either, so maybe wagoning isn't at all a very good method.

It's good for getting out of rvs, but not really for getting reactions

[PhantomCobalt]

Guys id like to see less theory and more scum-hunting, even if it's just poking for reactions, do it

[PhantomCobalt]

I'm kind of 50/50 about if that slip was AI or NAI

[PhantomCobalt]

Ryan mentioning innocent specifically is very sketchy though, if anything id vote Ryan before innocent

[PhantomCobalt]

Also a nice feature I forgot to point out before reso used it, the post button in the very bottom right of the tag bar links the post number to the actual post for easy navigation for people reading your posts

[PhantomCobalt]

IV does bring up a good point, I did not notice his reply was to iv'S original questions

[PhantomCobalt]

If he's answering IV'S question then IV is probably the first name that comes to mind when he gave that example

[PhantomCobalt]

This wagon on me is weird. That is all I have to say for now.

This seems like a really forced reaction, trying to play that "I'm not worrying because I'm town" card.

VOTE: Innocentvillager

[PhantomCobalt]

UNVOTE:

[PhantomCobalt]

What the actual fuck Rusty

Idk either VI or scum

[PhantomCobalt]

If my own VC is correct IV is at L-2 right now

[PhantomCobalt]

If my own VC is correct IV is at L-2 right now

Unfortunately...... IV was at L-0 for 3 minutes after Rusty's vote.

LIKE, what the actual fuck, Rusty. SERIOUSLY WHAT THE FUCK.

SHHH

[PhantomCobalt]

That is possibly the luckiest mafia moment I've ever seen

Anyone up for a Rusty PL?

[PhantomCobalt]

VOTE: PhantomCobalt

Policy lynching PhantomCobalt for putting me at L-1 without declaring. You should know better. This is not fucking Rusty's fault, it is 90% yours.

i thought you were L-2 when I voted you

[PhantomCobalt]

Unless I see incontrovertible evidence Phantom isn't scum or Rusty is scum, I'm not moving my vote for the rest of the day. There was no town fucking motivation behind that vote.

If you're saying no town motivation, you're calling it scummy. How is it a PL then?

[PhantomCobalt]

And to prove that I didn't know, why did I unvote IV after the Rusty vote? Cuz I thought it was L-1 and I didnt want anyone to QH

[PhantomCobalt]

Explain how you thought it was L-2. What did you miss?? Also did you include Rusty's vote when you said it was L-2 (after you invited)?

I missed reso's vote, and i thought it was L-2 after I voted

[PhantomCobalt]

@hiplop why do you respond to my PL suggestion and not IV's? scummy to me,

[PhantomCobalt]

Both are bad and have no place in the newbie queue

Why did you only note IV's after I pushed you about it?

[PhantomCobalt]

Reso is very strong town for me atm, mostly because of how he handled the IV wagon hammer

[PhantomCobalt]

Happy with my vote. I'd like people to say why they aren't joinng this wagon thanks.

Some people don't like to vote town unfortunately for you

[PhantomCobalt]

VOTE: cobalt. Interested in this.

why?

[PhantomCobalt]

Hey guys you can't just vote without a reason, it's really insightful to town if they can see your thought process

[PhantomCobalt]

Ok town let's have a quick lesson on when to claim, and it's not what Maverick said!

If you are at L-1, before you are hammered it is proper etiquette for someone to "intent to hammer", this when you should claim!

If you get hammered without someone stating intent, that is a quickhammer. Dont quickhammer guys, unless it's closing in on deadline. Quickhammering a town usually gets you PL'ed outside of Rome.

[PhantomCobalt]

I'm still wondering why there isn't more focus on Cobalt for trying to quietly push through a quickhammer and then, when it got fluffed up by an invalid vote, itrying to salvage it and score townpoints.

Cobalt, what were your reasons for putting Inno to L-1 in your #89? If people are really going to berate and even vote me for 'not explaining my vote' or whatever (I have) then they should also have reacted far, far more angrily to the hammer-that-never-was earlier.

Are you joking?

[PhantomCobalt]

@Ox04 that's called hard stances, which shows that you fell confident about something and you want to be locked in. It's usually a towntell because you can't back out of it, whereas scum would rather say something like "I only voted blahblah because it was a wagon everyone agreed on".

[PhantomCobalt]

Wagon on Mav? This is the best day of my life

VOTE: Maverick

Weak logic all around, can't hunt scum because he is scum

[PhantomCobalt]

@Ox04 that's called hard stances, which shows that you fell confident about something and you want to be locked in. It's usually a towntell because you can't back out of it, whereas scum would rather say something like "I only voted blahblah because it was a wagon everyone agreed on".

And why should he be so confident that RyanK is scum? There's no way he could know that without being mafia.

Uhh just trust me it's just something people say

[PhantomCobalt]

1. By your logic, 99% of mafiascum players turbobus every game
2. I said Mav is scum, does that mean I'm turbobusing Mav?

[PhantomCobalt]

Im just going to stop arguing with you now

[PhantomCobalt]

I mean come on guys, just look at my meta. Whenever I get lynched D1, i'm town

[PhantomCobalt]

Am I the only that noticed hiplop jumped on my wagon then disappeared?

[PhantomCobalt]

In newbies, lynched 3 times as town D1, 1 time as mafia D1
In newbies, lynched 6 times as town, 2 times as mafia

thats from skimming my games, info is mostly correct

[PhantomCobalt]

In newbies, lynched 3 times as town D1, 1 time as mafia D1
In newbies, lynched 6 times as town, 2 times as mafia

thats from skimming my games, info is mostly correct

Okay. First off, before I give my thoughts on these numbers, I'd like you to make it clear to everyone as of just how serious you are in using this as an argument to support your innocence.

From a scale of 1 to 10, where a 10 is complete seriousness, and a 1 is a complete absence of seriousness, just how serious are you being right now with that argument?

somewhere around 3 or 4

[PhantomCobalt]

That self-meta argument made me laugh out loud.

How is Cobalt even still alive in this game please?

ur tunnel vision needs to be fixed

[PhantomCobalt]

I'm known around the site as "Don't Lynch D1 Dave"

[PhantomCobalt]

Your scumminess needs fixing. With a lynch. I don't care if I'm tunnelled, I'm tunnelled on scum.

Who else are you tunneling except me? hiplop? hes my 2nd top scumread

[PhantomCobalt]

reso, Strong town - Good logic and active scumhunting, and the lack of anything scummy

0x40, scum lean - Actively scumhunting, which is good, but with terrible logic that he thinks is okay

Rusty, scum lean - Mostly fluff, VI

Vaxkiller, very small townlean - want to see more from him

RyanK, nulltown - My opinion keeps changing on him, very vote jumpy

innocentvillager, scumlean - Earlier posts make me think scum, but later ones show very genuine reactions

Maverick1102, scumlean - Tunneling, weak logic, doesn't read and just skims then makes accusations

hiplop, scum - Lurking

My lynch candidates for today:
0x40, hiplop

VOTE: hiplop

[PhantomCobalt]

VOTE: 0x40
This guy is detrimental to town

[PhantomCobalt]

How on earth is holding your shitty case to account 'detrimental to town'?

Can you reiterate?

[PhantomCobalt]

0x40, scum lean - Actively scumhunting, which is good, but with terrible logic that he thinks is okay

You have yet to prove any of my logic to be faulty. Go ahead and try if you think that you can.

Your "slip" is not a slip, that's all that has to be said. Whatever you're thinking, it's wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong

[PhantomCobalt]

0x40, scum lean - Actively scumhunting, which is good, but with terrible logic that he thinks is okay

You have yet to prove any of my logic to be faulty. Go ahead and try if you think that you can.

Your "slip" is not a slip, that's all that has to be said. Whatever you're thinking, it's wrong. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong

If you think that by using the word "wrong" enough times can refute any argument, I suggest you get out that delusional world of yours and go back to reality.

Have you read other MS games other than this game? That might help you learn common tells

[PhantomCobalt]

"_____ is scum."

Hard stance, and confidence.

ITS A SAYING

[PhantomCobalt]

"_____ is scum."

Hard stance, and confidence.

ITS A SAYING

First off, he used the words "

has to

be scum," which is the same as stating that he is 100% confident. He couldn't possibly be 100% confident unless he has evidence that disproves every single possibility where RyanK isn't scum. It is very different from someone stating that "person x is probably scum," or "person x

ought to

be scum," which you seem to believe can somehow have the same meaning as what he said?

Yes! Finally! That's exactly what I mean! It's the same meaning!
omg finally

[PhantomCobalt]

Yes! Finally! That's exactly what I mean! It's the same meaning!
omg finally

Oh. You may want to look those words up in a dictionary then. Are you a native English speaker?
Here, I'll even explain the difference for you:

Has to

- expression of 100% certainty.

Ought to

- expression of probability.

People say "has to", even if not 100% certain. just to show how confident they are

[PhantomCobalt]

Then call him out on his weak reasoning

[PhantomCobalt]

@RyanK I was caught up in the heat of the moment, and forgot. Bad se'ing on my part

@reso thank you so much, I love you

[PhantomCobalt]

@Mod

I have my vote on 0x40 not Vax

[PhantomCobalt]

That's a wild switch. Ryan why have you gone from seemingly scumreading Cobalt in your #350 and pushing on him, to suddenly scumreading me for calling for votes on my #1 scumread which I have held ALL DAY and explained at least once in full.

Seems rather odd, no?

Seems pretty odd that you're scared to present your case

I feel like Mav is too scummy to be scum

[PhantomCobalt]

Yes ready vax's posts seem a bit irky in my gut

[PhantomCobalt]

Just a FYI we are not lunching until Rusty replacement, the more and more I read over the slot the more I think newbscum

[PhantomCobalt]

UNVOTE:

[PhantomCobalt]

VOTE: Vedith
I'm 100% sure that was a scum flake

[PhantomCobalt]

@Ox04 that's called hard stances, which shows that you fell confident about something and you want to be locked in. It's usually a towntell because you can't back out of it, whereas scum would rather say something like "I only voted blahblah because it was a wagon everyone agreed on".

Yes ready vax's posts seem a bit irky in my gut

At post 260, you were defending Vaxkiller. What is it that made you switch to attacking Vaxkiller in post 373. This is a behavioral contradiction and unless there is a good reason for it, you have to be scum.

I wasn't defending Vax, I was pointing out 0x40's bad logic. Let me make an easy scenario to show

Player A: Player C committed the murder because he has a knife in his hand.
Player B: But the murder was done with a gun, not a knife.
Player B: Player C seems suspicious though.

Now just replace A with 0x40, B with me, and C with Vax.

[PhantomCobalt]

VOTE: Vedith
I'm 100% sure that was a scum flake

Also, what is a scum flake?

Flaking is when you leave the thread, or even the site as whole. It's kind of like lurking, but not reading the thread or going on the site.

Sometimes flaking is NAI, but I think it's AI as scum. Rusty knew he fucked up trying to quickhammer, so he flaked.

[PhantomCobalt]

0x40 can you explain your Ryan and me scum read?

[PhantomCobalt]

0x40 can you explain your Ryan and me scum read?

Your refusal to answer some very legitimate questions people have asked you, and the whole voting fiasco. I never said I had a scumread on Ryan, but I kinda do have a slight scumread because a large portion of the things he's said has been useless. At some points it really does seem like he's doing his best to find scum, though. He's the hardest one to get a good read on by far in my opinion.

Oh my bad, your Vax scumread

[PhantomCobalt]

Mav's tunneling and confidence can't come from scum

@Mav how about we lynch Vedith, then we can talk D2, you can still lynch me if you think I would powerbus my scumbuddy

[PhantomCobalt]

I do think you would do that.

Well I don't care if I get lynched D2, as long as we hit scum D1

[PhantomCobalt]

Here's my Rusty slot case:

1. Quickhammered/Vote hopping for no reason
2. Flaked
3. PoE

[PhantomCobalt]

Rusty, scum lean - Mostly fluff, VI

innocentvillager, scumlean - Earlier posts make me think scum, but later ones show very genuine reactions

hiplop, scum - Lurking

[PhantomCobalt]

Where does the number 5 or 6 come from 3?

[PhantomCobalt]

Guys if i get lynched don't go after Mav, I'm almost certain that me vs. him is TvT

[PhantomCobalt]

Mav's tunneling and confidence can't come from scum

UNVOTE:

I could've explained my 0x40 scumread retraction, but you're ignoring the 2 scumreads I had in my list that turned into townreads

[PhantomCobalt]

I feel like Mav is reading half the game rn, which is very anti-town, argghhh

[PhantomCobalt]

The point was you tried to undermine my argument by altering a quotation of your own post. Now that I've brought to attention the fact that you misquoted yourself you're backtracking, Cobalt.

You're the one misrepresenting me saying that I had 5-6 scumreads when I posted my rusty case

[PhantomCobalt]

That's all you have? Just a bunch of reads?

[PhantomCobalt]

And why are you doing associating tells without flips?

[PhantomCobalt]

When I get lynched make sure if theres a cop out there get Vedith
Vedith can you explain why your slot was doing all the voting early game?

[PhantomCobalt]

You can't assume my reads don't change between votes when I say that I changed my reads before votes..

[PhantomCobalt]

But Mav can you promise me you'll tunnel Vedith as hard as your tunneling me d2?

[PhantomCobalt]

And does anyone want to stay up at a certain time while Fire is sleeping so we can lynch me and we can talk when everyone believes im town so we can gave a good conversation on what to do tomorrow

[PhantomCobalt]

But Mav can you promise me you'll tunnel Vedith as hard as your tunneling me d2?

[PhantomCobalt]

Ok next in PoE is hiplop, how about him

[PhantomCobalt]

So you're telling me if I self hammer, and tell you I'm town you won't believe me?

[PhantomCobalt]

Just a FYI we are not lunching until Rusty replacement, the more and more I read over the slot the more I think newbscum

This is WAYYYY before you said you'll be voting me, another invalid reason due to people not reading the thread :/

[PhantomCobalt]

So you're going to hammer me even though you think I'll flip town? The fuck

[PhantomCobalt]

I am vanilla townie of the town alignment, not scum, town.

[PhantomCobalt]

Well hammer me then, I dare you

[PhantomCobalt]

Yeah I've given up, I'm not going to be alive as long as Mav is tunneling me

[PhantomCobalt]

I don't know why we're arguing about this. People voting someone believe that there's a 50 < chance that they're scum, unless they're scum.

[PhantomCobalt]

9 players*

[PhantomCobalt]

Argghhh

Let's say you have 100 marbles in a bag, 99 red, and 1 blue. There are two possibilities, a red or a blue. However, if you reach into the bag and grab one out, it's 99 out of 100 times red.

[PhantomCobalt]

He's pretty much comparing part to part ratio and part to whole ratio.

[PhantomCobalt]

Reso town for good scumhunting
Hiplop probably town for halting the momentum on my wagon
0x40 Either town or newbscum

What about 497?

[PhantomCobalt]

Yes I believe reso is town, so 497 is correct

[PhantomCobalt]

Whoopsie wrong account

Pro tip: Use different browser profiles with different skins for all your alts. Impossible to fuck up that way.

That was a phone post though