Newbie 1769: Happy New Year! (Post-Game)
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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notes toward a reads list, p3:
rask is doing a lot of head-nodding, automated yesman behavior. "yeah, uh-huh, yep" with really shallow concerns tacked on. 58 and 61 and 64 are a lot of using slow-time to get all nice and snuggled up to gbT.
this point, rask is top scumread, creature is townread because A: i dont know anyone of these folks and i trust their knowledge of him, B: he isn't doing anything overtly alarm-bells-ringing. gbT i like the play of but am saying is null.
im really feeling post 69: tb is getting a lot of people jumping on him with both feet but i dont see it -- idk, maybe its just because i prefer rqs to rvs by far.
actually, no, screw that.
WTF is town doing trying to keep people from putting info out? scum knows all, town is not omniscient. scum has a vested interest in shutting down info-generating discussion, town DOES NOT. it also is sorta bad for the noobs -- they dont have an opportunity to say where they are curious about things without actively putting themselves out front role wise or etc. thats a pro-scum attitude, if not precisely anti-town.
gbT moves to top scumread, rask pushed up to nullscum. if i dont see something good at the end of this, im gonna vote gbT and let the chips fall where they may even with my predecessors lurking giving me a bad rep -- because thats insipid af, what is wrong with you if you're town, you should know better esp as ive read some your other games!
end of p3: nothing. gbT im parking my vote on you while i keep reading back through. explain yoself pal
earlygame readslist
townie:
creature
mbg, tb<---less certain here but not enough to be nulltown or townlean on. theyre very protown in actions but SO LITTLE TO WORK ON
null:
everyone else for real this game is a slow burner???
nullscum:
rask
scummy af for real consider the lynch on this slot:
gbT
back to reading, p4 and onward!
VOTE: gigabyteTroubadour-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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some explanations coming down the pipe on p4 but i dont buy it:
1: noobtown seems to lean toward the paranoid side. theyd see q4 and dive deep into the ocean of WIFOM madness and decide its best to just pick a role that isnt theirs, or they wouldnt care and the mafia learns absolutely nothing even despite that. certainly no ones gonna ask about vt, how the hell can this be rolefishin since everybody gonna pick a p common role most likely but no ones gonna say vt? scumscuse for anti-town behavior imo
2: post 89????? "i should know, i caught my first scum with RQS" ???????? wtf? ok then why would oyu shut it down if its a good noob-friendly way of catching scum? WORST CASE SCENARIO: you that concerned with q no. 4? then say "EXCEPT DONT ANSWER THIS K". this is silly and ridiculous and omg im gonna aneurysm over here.
also noticing a lot of strong townreads from gbT but v weak scumreads, which is a tactic i employ as scum. you have perfect knowledge and you want to hide that, but you also have to look like youre contributing. this guy gets 4 perfect townreads by p4, but doesnt have any good scumreads? yeah no not buying that garbage.
im callin you out gbT, im comin for your face pal, youre scum af
end p4. p5:
gbT gets 5th TR and still has really low standards for scum? bs. i dont buy that for a minute. even if two slots are lurky youre gonna get a bit on the paranoid side about folks and this is literally just gbT jumping up and down on TB because SURE LETS DENY TOWN A DISCUSSION POINT AND SOURCE OF INFO WHY NOT. two answers and he shuts it down without even fully buying into his own reasoning and trying to get the hamster to pull that wagon into town, gtfo of here with that.
GAYreenHamster is giving me strong af townvibes all over the place, not liking that shes turning to gbT as source of info/townleader tho
speaking of which why tf is gbT townleader here at all? BECAUSE TALKATIVE SCUM????? hes not contibuting anything but townreads and post 108 "closest thing i have to a scumread" (tb)??? pls you got it down to 3 possibles and youre still gonna say you only suspect one even with the lurkin? at the very least here youd recognize that one of the two lurks is more likely to be town than not and that youre vibing with someone you shouldnt be (oh wait youre scum nvm lol)
am more certain after 110: getting bored, no suspicion in their direction, trying to encourage people to read past games so theyll see their town game and get suspicious (and i did). wants to have a chance of losing but everybody tiptoing around the subject and/or sheeping. creature should be townleader where the hell are you friend?????
schadd_ giving me scummy vibes in post 112. pushing that bs about rolefishing after p much everyone else was dismissive of is kind of like, uh what this has been considered possible but unlikely and easily defeated even by noobs??? also dismissing softclaims in an overly WIFOM-aware way, smells like S C U M. down to nullscum you go pal
gbT trying to test the waters with how far they can make people sheep them in 115, seriously now. why was this not discussed? oh yeah because schadd_ legitimized it. S C U M B U D D I E S
rask fighting with gbT after p3 buddy-buddy friendly times. could be town getting genuinely pissed at misread (leaning this way) or distancing (very likely but not as likely imo). still nullscum pal
end of p5
reads list:
TOWN:
creature
mbg, tb
gayreen
NULL:
shade
NULLSCUM:
rask
schadd_<--- scummier nullscum than the other nullscum, break out that mr clean and well see about fixing that tho
SCUM NOT EVEN SCRUBBING BUBBLES WILL REMOVE, LYNCH IT QUICK FRIENDS:
gbT
i think your most recent noob game with FC and that one other guy who siteflaked on scumteam. you arent playing your town role one bit hereIn post 391, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:also which games have you read of mine
because then you'd know that that's something I believe
but yeah i def believe you dislike the kumbaya game and i appreciate that big time, i was fingerscrossed hoping id get in a game with you lmao
and its funny first read through i wasnt paying much attention and you came off ultratown because i never read that other thread. come back and scumflags like we got mildew hanging from the battered walls of this messed up old shack sorta deal, lol-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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wrapping it up relatively quicklike. i got strong scumdar pings on gbT, schadd_ and rask.
heres what i want from you guys:
gbT; why didn't you find a way to use those questions to get info, or at least continue with a diff RQS set?
you admit its a good idea shortly after killing it dead, but do nothing to replace it? no, sorry, i dont buy it. you could have kept it going in the background while developing good reads, but you jumped on TB and stopped that train cold. i want a good answer. im halfway leaning toward starting a new q&a session here and seeing how you react lol
schadd_; really, i just want you to explain your reads in detail, like, fullstop. theyre not feeling nice to me, im not liking them one bit. convince me you came by them honestly
rask; explain that out of thin air l-1 crap pls? yeah sur eit was really l-2, but you didnt know that so wtf? explain yourself, what on earth was the point of it, why did you do it? why did you expect tb to be a good candidate for that kind of pressure even???
moving on!
i am following creature's thought process on shade. scum votes that way, its why i am eyeing rask with steel in my eyes and a burning boiling need to destroy in my heart in the first place. but theres little enough to go off of that idk, i havent a clue in fact, its more a gut read than a logical "prob scum yeah" thought process.
my mbg read has dropped to nullscum on a doublecheck and rethink of reasoning. the anarchist vibes are likely a personality trait shinign through in general (see avatar), and his reads list is heavily floated toward the middle with few actually dead center purenull -- and those who are at the middle are the strongest of townreads imo. hes prob not on the scum team but hes not exactly playing pro-town. also not getting purenoob vibes, so theres something to be said for that.
final reads list:
TOWN:
creature
gayreen
NULL:
tb
NULLSCUM:
mbg, shade
schadd_, rask <-- ultra scummy nullscum but im not hard-sold on these like i could be
THE SEVENTH CIRCLE
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originally associative + early game play. as his play dropped off after his claim, his standards slipped and im no longer comfortable with him where he was.In post 394, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:
^is this townread associative off of me or based on play?In post 392, cassielle wrote:tb
that doesnt bolster your case in the least. give my above q's some attention please, id really like to believe you arent scum because i was looking forward to playing with you ahahaIn post 397, gigabyteTroubadour wrote: ^ last time i criticized an rqs i felt was bad
(they flipped town but still, case can be right, flip wrong)
rask read is a bit gut, a bit of the p3 buddy buddy time, a WHOLE LOT of the "hey lets just put tb on l-1 JUST BECAUSE" (even if wrong) because wtf is that about???In post 398, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:final thoughts before lifetm
i'd like to know more about your rask read
cass, cassie?
avatar would be nice btw pretty sure you're not going to flake
not a he
~<3
cass works
avatar would be nice but i want something very specific that i prob wont find easily. have to save up money for an art commission from someone awesome probably, or just try to do it myself in Paint.net but thats unlikely to end up in anything but sadness-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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oh whoops i didnt even realize that last bit (i was so confused????) -- i caught myself doing it at first and rewrote around it a few times (risking appearing to tunnel but w/e i dont like misgendering people) but i could have sworn i fixed that in my second post. mega sorry about thatIn post 398, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:final thoughts before lifetm
i'd like to know more about your rask read
cass, cassie?
avatar would be nice btw pretty sure you're not going to flake
not a he
~<3-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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regarding info to get from those questions:
first off, it sets up a baseline and makes sure you know everyones experience level. id have followed it up with an experienced-folks-only question set involving who theyve played with before and what pointers they can give about town/scum metas, but thats just because i would want to level that playing field information-wise -- ses and ic have an advantage in knowing some of their counterparts, noobs are just about completely unaware of everyone.
secondly (less important from a game perspective, more important from a learning perspective) it gives everyone an opening to ask about roles they dont understand to the ic without unintentionally (even unknowingly) softing themselves as that role -- because EVERYONE is doing it and MOST are going to be vt or scum! that gives noobs a leg up that the experienced folks already have, without shifting balance. important later, though not immediately.
third, you can always jump on random peoples questions and request followups. avoid q4 and you avoid looking like youre rolefishing. and by doing this you can grab onto anyones questions list as a thread to tug at if you want more info but dont want to be tugging on the latest discussion threads for whatever reason (cornering a suspicious player into a position, etc). it gives town a powerful tool by forcing everyone to put a bit of themselves up front at the start in a way that rvs doesnt quite do. furthermore, while you cant ask a latecomer to engage in rvs for tells, you can ask them to fill out the standard q&a sheet everyone else has got to drag info out of them. its easy to dodge a "oh whats your reads list" at this stage just coming in, too lazy to do a deep re-read or w/e you want really. it corners the lurkers into making a move that people can latch onto later if necessary, which (as you saw with my predecessor lol) isnt as easy without it.
ill seriously consider rqs 2.0 still, but im gonna wait for your reaction to this post.
p-edit: im ok with shade, but id WAY prefer schadd_, gbT or rask. moreso schadd_ or rask atm, im getting info out of gbT!
and yeah @gbT you totally strike me that way, imo were actually quite a lot alike haha-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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interesting points to make:
1: TB dropped off at roughly your last post you quoted from him (pre-claim, the IIoA bit), quality wise. that struck me as buzzwordy (even if true!) and from there hes tumbled downhill and lately turned into a bit of a flaky lurker from what ive read. its what changed him from being almost obvtown to null for me. all his early posts still feel ultra townie tho
2: rask took ages to get scumhunting yeah and it feels halfassed -- he jumped on that l-1 with little discussion. most of the supposed townblock was on that vote, so if he had actually been l-2 the scum could have had their weaker link lolhammer and end it -- they take out a weak player to keep discussion flowing, the hammerer could have said "i thought i checked the count and it was l-2" (which it was!) as a safety net. then his further scumhunting has been PoE, which is very poor in this game because everyone is so focused on townreads when its all about killing them scum that want to look town to start with baby
3: schadd_ post 53 thing.
4: GAYreen feels like a good bet for obv-town in my book. this seems to be easy to agree on. nothing about GAYreen says "shifty", it says noob-nervous, a bit of sheeping but a lot of honest curiosity and finding your sea legs so to speak as well.
p-edit: what? planned it? checking-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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main reason i disagree: someone is going to think, "hey, im here to learn. so no matter what role i get, im going to want a mentor figure, right?" and then they look at their scumteam and see they have another noob, and theyre like "wait what? who the hell is going to help teach me this stuff???" so theyre gonna feel out of their depth. and because its a noob game they might feel someone messed up somewhere down the line and they got saddled with a second noob by mistake. but saying that in the thread is guarantee-lynch, so they ask "so would the scum have an SE or IC on their team always?"
i think itll be a 2-noob team if hes scum.
p-edit: mbg's read lists are ugly. let me look for his second readlist, its a MESS. it also DOES NOT follow from his first list in the least.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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sorry that was his second. meant his first. behold:
p-edit: id say overconfident is best case scenario, but id rather have your take (considering conftown)In post 185, mattblackguy wrote:So far I read both Rask, and Giga as town. To me it seems like Rask is trying to put some pressure on ThinkBig, and get more analysis from people, which seems like a town thing to do. I can't seem to put into words why I think Giga is town besides the fact that I think all of thier posts seem pro-town.(sorry for vagueness :/)
At first I didn't think anything of ThinkBig asking questions but him claiming at L-2 seemed very odd to me. Like (1) I don't think anyone had intent to lynch him especially when we have 13 days left in the day, still have plenty of discussion left, and 2 people still haven't posted. (2) A vanilla townie claim doesn't really have much weight to it, because wouldn't everyone claim vanilla townie on day 1? It's not like a power role would claim their actual role day 1 because they would know they would die that night, and all mafia would also claim vanilla townie.
I'm not sure what to think about Creature at the moment. It seems he's being vague with all his posts, and can't get a read on him.
Everyone else I'm pretty much null on.
(sorry if my reads/analysis sucks. I'm just typing what comes to mind, and would very much appreciate feedback on how I can improve)-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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lol you actually responded that way to him originally too. yeah shades def nullscum for me, same tier as mbg, for that very reason among the others youve mentioned. i dont think the response to your original response was worth treating from a town perspective, its not indignant so much as joking, with a thin and easily made up reasoning for the vote underneathIn post 436, Creature wrote:Oh wow, this Shade guy finally scum hunt, but it's actually just an empty vote.
What do you think will happen?In post 253, Shade wrote:anyway I like to see what will happen if I just vote Thinkbig
VOTE: Vote : ThinkBig
This is L2 I believe.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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noobscum imo:
will panic and flounder a bit. they dont have guidance until night-talk.
will lurk a lot.
are going to be self-analytical, watching their words, persona, actions, etc.
will tend toward posts with polished presentation, low content, high word count.
will flail with reads (massive back and forth).
p-edit: i love that rask forgot to cross himself on that list lol -- sure, its final, but unless you didnt get a town role pm you should never want to keep your slot open to questioning. ever. you have no reason, it muddies the waters.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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re: paranoia: thats fair, but idk, i got no reason to act concerned by your paranoia i think? i back my stuff up and i definitely am not about to do anything anti-town (and hell if im acting anti town call me out).
tho if youre worried about the gbT part of my scumreads, id say pay attention after their next response tbh.
re: rask stuff: i think def messing up, but that combined with other behavior brings to mind huge scum. which is why hes in my top 3. id say give him a chance to wiggle out just in case but def lock his views/statements/stances down lol-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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i think its fair to in the very early game so you can put the focus on the best leads, but you should always re-analyze and the bulk of posts should make up your decision. in cases where its NAI or WIFOM for most posts, you can approach a townread from one or two posts but imo it should be a weak one. townlean at best.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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i still want my response from gbT before i make any further judgments. i have a suspicion i know the response and have a secondary read on them im holding back for that reason. i was crumbing in the reads list in my last gigantuous wallpost from catching up for that reason -- they werent on the list, but that spot (THE SEVENTH CIRCLE) is def reserved, yeah? so yeah, im waiting on gbT before i make another read on them. for now you can assume i consider them ultrascum still tho-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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i wouldnt call myself among the power players (i actually had a tendency to get mled d1 as town and coast to endgame as scum, it was a very mellow site meta) but i know how the game is played and this site's meta seems more in tune with my playstyle anyhow.
i hope you are giving my question thought? im not the only one coming to you being in the top scumteam here and the other is all but conftown so i mean, yeah-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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GAYreen is obvtown and youre dodging my question. here let me quote it for you
if you cant give me a really great and wonderful explanation for this im not seeing any reason not to push the lynch on you. if you can, well, im p sure i can put together a good list to make sure we get your record all squeaky clean.In post 400, cassielle wrote: rask; explain that out of thin air l-1 crap pls? yeah sur eit was really l-2, but you didnt know that so wtf? explain yourself, what on earth was the point of it, why did you do it? why did you expect tb to be a good candidate for that kind of pressure even???-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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right, except why was tb the main scumlead there? i had you (oh, right) and gbT as potentials well before that point. also schadd_ was a potential. mbg's hard to read-ish but he's lurky and his reads are at least passably anti-town. why not go for literally any of these? i mean, sure, tb's wagon had momentum, but i did not get this scumread that caused the momentum.
lets assume no one but me had a scumread on gbT: you were sheeping them in that case. why? its not even a super good argument, esp when tb didnt push for his rqs to continue when it got stopped???
so really, tell me: why did you want to apply that pressure? why did you "need" those good reactions there?
and GAYreen said but did not act upon. in fact said she wouldnt feel right doing it, implying it wasnt a situation worthy of it. it was a lot of sheeping and looking for gold stars imo, which is common for noobs in general. slightly anti-town? sure. active scummy? not so much.
you on the other hand have other reasons to suspect. this is just the one that i feel is most pressing, most worthy of attention.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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im not casting doubt on you based purely on read differences. im asking you to explain 1: the read on tb that made him so obvscum. 2: the reason that read overshadowed other potential reads from the same time period or earlier.
HOWEVER, if town cant agree on their reads, pushing for a lynch is going to end badly every time. thats why i was comparing and contrasting with creature -- if we can come to a shared conclusion after some back and forth, each of our reads are that much stronger together than they would be otherwise and the scum have that much more trouble hiding. ofc obvsheeping should be called out and reasoning should be asked for. not everyone uses the same rules of inference and cloned reasoning should stand out on that basis. that doesnt mean we cant say that putting obvtown in the scumlist is weird af, because it is. it means youre quite prob blind to what the others are seeing and need to re-evaluate, are seeing something the others arent and need to share, or are very prob scum.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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maybe i wasnt clear on that first part, so:
it isnt read differences that im getting on your case about, it is the good-faith coming to those reads. same as schadd_ -- the read feels like there no weight behind it, like its something that you pulled out of a hat (or out of someone else's post...) and that is something you can definitely prove is not the case by detailing your reasoning. that wagon is dead, long gone, you have no reason to hide the reasoning now, the situation is "fixed", it cannot be "fixed" any further by you dropping info that could get the wagon off of him potentially -- because, er, its gone. it doesnt let scum borrowing your reasoning in order to sheep because, ah, no ones on that wagon. so why havent you just come out and stated it? that doesnt feel town, at best its very anti-town, which doesnt make you look good at all.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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generally they get to l-2 (without any unintentional (or fake) l-1 votes) and either peter out or go for a lynch after some discussion. however, ive read site meta here and i know thats not how it works, esp with much longer days. and im not assuming it is.
my contention: you wanted information. WHY did you want that information? part one of my last question, namely "1: the read on tb that made him so obvscum." you could have pressed on anyone else for info. why him in particular? ignore the weight of the wagon, what made you want him to talk instead of someone else?-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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shade came in after your vote im p sure, so hed be no 3. alright, i can tentatively accept this. ill let creature ask you to address his personal major question before i jump back in with number 2. in the mean time: why do you suspect GAYreen?? like at all? its pretty generally agreed GAYreen is obv noobtown afaict, so you either saw something we didnt or need to be shown something you didnt see-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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i cant see the meta either, but theres a lot of very noobtown behavior. from a more advanced player some of it reads as scum, but theres a lot of towntells, things like #87 and #91, #101 too with the whole not wanting to go against the town leaders thing -- it doesnt have the stink of scum sheeping, it feels like an honest noob taking direction from the people in charge. VERY slow to jump on that active wagon and got scared last min. scum is usually on the wagon and thered be a lot weirder behavior under even minor pressure i feel. its more of a mood thing -- not quite a gut read, but a tone read. 199 betrays a non-omniscient frame of mind, remembering that you dont know anything is a light towntell. it goes on, and none of it alone is much but it all adds up to obvtown.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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ftr im not currently defending or backing down on my gbT reads. im waiting on their response.
regarding my reads on you: the little bit of WIFOM-awareness in there was like, cherry on top? its not a strong aspect of what im working off of atm. theres also post 53's sheer evil (NAI at /best/ but no town wants to know that for town reasons imo, the best hope is sheer curiosity) and your really strange reads list.
i havent seen any of your reasoning for your reads. i cant parse the reasoning behind a fair few. your iso turns up some stuff on shade. just shade. and something to do with GAYreen but you never expand on it, you just essentially say "because i dont like them" so it may as well be nothing. theres nothing on rask being a nulltown or townlean, or mbg for that matter. theres no real reasoning to your hard scumread on tb beyond the question thing, which i and creature (and maybe others?) agree has a town-look to it.
besides those three, nothing. with my slot thats cool, w/e. creature, makes sense, no ones gonna question creature too closely. with the rest, wow, idk, thats why im asking you to tell me your reasoning, because i am not sure you actually have any. scum cant make up good reasons on the fly, town know their reasons.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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im going to try to sleep, sick lately. might be back in anywhere from 1 hr to 9 hrs.
something to think about tho for my scumreads: me calling you out is a chance for you to get yourselves off the hook. i am not tunneling in on you, i am aggressively pursuing players who ping my scumdar heavily. this is a chance for you to convince me those were misfires, and i am not an unreasonable person. scum will find my questions difficult. town knows why they do things, they should not have much trouble with them. im hoping at least one of you is scum, gonna be honest, but itd be nice to sort out the at least one innocent from the pile early on so we can take this game by end of d2, so im sure hoping you guys understand i dont want you to fight me, i want you to convince me. things will go quicker like that, js.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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actually we need more input from you too so
i was mixing things up on your reads list first off -- does follow, still reasonably easy to call anti-town. the whole thing initially revolved around the middle, 0 hard reads. thats solid anti-town to light scumtell depending on the rest of players game. not too long after you put down a readslist that is gamesolve, which means youre either way cocky or you were pretending not to know anyones role (which would be massive scumtell)
the whole anarchist vibe thing -- you got this tendency to not follow the leader very much in general, the sheeping giga was super late (p14 to p15 roughly, as creature noticed) so i can buy that you came to that honestly and it doesnt strike me as going against the "fuck da police" thing. my reads on you are based on your reads list, low-content posts, and low post count mostly, which is why you run light nullscum atm-
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really wanting to see a lot more from tb and mbg today. also really wanting creature to put forward his first case vs rask because i dont think we have the same reasons for our placement of him and i dont think ive made my case stronger with the first set of questions.
reminder: tb, you said youre reading back through. everyone wants you to contribute more today. everyone is watching your slot. you have been all but totally nonexistent, and its made my initial townread hit null because wtf? please post something in depth before tomorrow. idc if youve had a chance to read everything necessarily, theres a lot there and its prob overwhelming. just give us something, anything with some meat on it, none of this delaying tactics crap we been getting from your direction since your claim-
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putting some thoughts out there while i wait on more content.
schadd_ has convinced me his reads (the main no. 1 reason he pinged as scum to me) are valid and honestly made. i dont agree with most of them but i feel that he and i also have opposed styles of reading people. i make strong judgements and then build on them or leave it null, he seems to build a baseline then adjust with strong judgements -- and with that and the small pool of info to work with in general from certain players this game, im gonna say that its very likely were weak-reading people oppositely but both putting it forward as way stronger than it should be because theres so little to make a strong opinion on to begin with.
last real concern i have with schadd_ is the lack of posting. activity is low, below GAYreen even. low word count high content makes me feel townie on him in general tho -- every post he makes stands out and because theres a small number of posts from him its easy to get polarized (strong conclusions from small sample size, etc.)
i want to go through his reads list because i feel like theres some inconsistency there idk but the time isnt right. still waiting on two people to provide content asap and i really want to drag a longwinded wallpost out of shade at some point too. harder to do that the more i focus on a strong townlean imo, because then im putting the pressure on the wrong folks.
current reads list sans gbT (as stated, waiting on them before i approach that again)
TOWN
creature
gayreen
NULLTOWN
schadd_
NULLSCUM
tb, mbg
SCUM
shade, rask-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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id try to stay active, call them out repeatedly. dont let them off the hook -- if i see them post, jump on it, try and pull something out of them while theyre present. if theyre not posting, keep adding clear reminders that i want them to post whenever i post something.
lurkers gonna lurk, the best you can do is make them look bad for continuing to lurk, imo
which is why im really pressing hard on mbg and tb, i want those two to post like asap, i want them active, engaged and involved so i can get good reads and everyone else can draw better supported conclusions
p-edit: as far as continuing to lean on you, i dont really feel thats a good idea juuuust yet. i want creature to put some pressure on, because ive just eased up. yeah its good cop bad cop of a sort but that works even when youre aware of it happening, so idc really about putting that in the open. also im uncertain my case is as strong as i thought it was now if im being honest but youre still giving strong scumvibes. creature said to beware folks inflating postcount way back and im getting that vibe from you, for instance. among other things, but im gonna keep that back while i work on outlining my case better.
but you sure af could look a lot better by stopping this 20 1liner post bs and focusing on content more imo, this feels like mass fluff and youre not making your case any better looking
p-edit 2: at the very least you could do as schadd_ did and do a post outlining the why of each read, thatd be a great and easy way to prove your reads are good-faith and not shallow
also: hi tb! looking forward to that reads list-
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problem is theres no content atm to draw conclusions from? i think thats very fair to say, your past page of posts or thereabouts is fluffy and i cant pull anything out of it. condensing the posts into larger ones would force you to flesh out the thought processes youre following more, thats why im pushing for that.
and yeah talking about townreads is boring but when half of your trs are half of my srs it becomes a whole lot more interesting, dont you think?-
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emphasis added to explain why this drops tb even further into scumpit for meIn post 442, cassielle wrote:noobscum imo:
willpanic and flounder a bit.they dont have guidance until night-talk.
willlurk a lot.
are going to be self-analytical, watching their words, persona, actions, etc.
will tend toward posts with, low content, high word count.polished presentation
will flail with reads (massive back and forth).-
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because i think its worth expanding on the polished presentation bit:
first impressions matter. rasks posts are high quantity, low quality, low content. at a simple glance they feel scum, theres a whole lot of posts that mostly dont say anything about the player. no matter what the content is, its going to be colore dby that first glance knee-jerk gut reaction, period.
on the opposite side of things, take gbT whose posts scream town: large, numerous, high in content, middle of the road quality (imo). at a glance you see those walls and you think "this has to be town" -- it took a very early and very unpopular interpretation of gbT's approach for me to recognize that it MIGHT not be town. everyone else is calling him obvtown. thats why first impressions matter -- you can look past the content to a certain extent because you have that vibe from looking at posts. this is also the basis of a lot of gut reads, even if the player isnt aware of it.
putting a highly polished sleek and visually well-designed (note: visually!!!) post out when youre under scrutiny is meant to deflect attention. it says "hey look im all cleaned up and my hairs nice". it wants you to go in reading it as town, because it looks nice.
unfortunately, more experienced players dont see "its sleek and nice looking", they see "its contentless and poorly thought out." thats why its not generally a scumtell outside noobscum -- it doesnt help anyones case and players who have been on the town side of it will recognize that. for experienced players its usually NAI because they just do it that way.
tb's use feels scummy, imo.
p-edit: ill devote a special post to you mbg. thanks for the big contribution, and no worries -- mafias for fun, if youre getting burnt out after a post then go take a break man haha
and hi grey! i look forward to your thoughts on who is town and who is scum when you have caught up-
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ok, regarding mbg's big scumread list -- its largely similar to mine and creatures.
i follow the reasoning on gayreen even if i dont agree with it -- there a paranoia that stems from the inactivity, and i admit that is something i might have considered more, but to be fair, you have even fewer posts over all, what makes you more town here?
i keep saying it and its prob unnecessary but just in case: im not sharing more on my gbT reads right now. i appreciate it but for me, right now, gbT is someone who i dont care to hear anything about until they return to thread.
shade feels more scummy than gayreen or even tb imo. can i get the reasoning for him being above them? i guess another way to word this is -- what do you weight more when looking for scumreads? activity, content, tone, or gut? theres good reasons to reconsider shades placement based on some of those.
townreads mostly agreed as well. i feel like these are honest, but im curious about your personally rather low activity and shade's placement in list still -- its worth noting that shade and schadd are in standard scumbuddy territory on your list from where im sitting -- if you were scum, youd want them on weak townlean/nulltown read imo. they can benefit from any towncred you have and if you fall down and flip red its still not an immediate scumsign on them
p-edit: yeah more or less what mbg said, grey. tho im glad so glad you picked that up. i /sorta/ missed it other than feeling his reads were REALLY messed up, and creature caught it and nailed it down in the open. fortunately things have changed, but just catching that alone gives me a very light town read on you, like super nully nulltown (waiting on final catch up post to make decisions)
p-edit 2: those rask lists are crazy man-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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yeah, i hear you. my take on that: gbT is someone who im going to say is safe to assume i consider ultrascum, but atm im not going to back that up. im waiting on them to come in and respond to something, their slot is not on my current readlists because theyre in a quantum state for me atm. if thats weird or ugly, idc really, theyre really active (no worry of not getting an answer in reasonable time) and theyll either prove my prior hunch right or force me to reconsider things, theres nothing more and nothing less to it.
schadd_'s latest has me feeling i jumped the gun on him. rask is just blaring alarm bells all over tho.
p-edit: the reason that would matter -- if it were significantly longer, it would feel like just an offhand addendum, l'esprit d'escalier so to speak yeah? if it were shorter it would feel like "OH SHIT" correction/important addendum. 13 minutes feels calculated, like every last word was carefully considered. and the presentation of 240 is pretty slick in general for him: short, sweet, very dense.
its not a STRONG thing, imo, but its def there.-
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In post 554, -Grey- wrote: Not seeing Gigs in this list?In post 455, cassielle wrote:actually, excluding gbT [...] ill do the same-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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im with all of thisIn post 555, mattblackguy wrote: I don't put too much weight into activity because it can be easily fabricated (See Rask). I guess I would say my scumreads come mostly from the type of content I see people post, and tone. If I feel someone is putting their reads out there, and is genuine with what they say (meaning they 100% believe what they are saying) then I'm more likely to town read them. It's the main reason I have a townread on schadd.
And again I try not to post if my post isn't going to advance the game at all. I don't like fluff too much, and try to avoid it when possible, which is why my post count is so much lower than many others.
main thing with shade is, his posts arent just sparse, theyre also real fake and forced (creature noticed too) and low on content. a lot of pushback at being questioned but its gt a joking tone without the outrage i expect from town.
what do you focus on most when doing scumreads then? gut, tone, content?
imo tb and gayreen pinging your scumdar for inactivity isnt very consistent here, even considering timing, shades also dropped off after an initial okay-ish showing-
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im not feeling any reason to save you atm, tbh. id be suspicious of anyone who pushed this wagon to l-1 without a lot of good reasoning before that vote, yeah, but i think towns on the correct motorcycle atm. a lolhammer from out of the blue isn't gonna look too pretty for either of those last two votes either, id say thatd be indicative of scumblock
creature doesnt seem to disagree with me, either. i think youre showing a lot of floundering under what is, according to what you said about tb's wagon, pretty moderate pressure.
lets go over your schadd_ read, yeah? relax. gimme a moment to write up my thoughts before you start panicking all over the thread. if you want out of this the absolute best way to do it is to exonerate yourself, and the fastest way to do that is to go through, not hope to put the fast-moving wagon in reverse.
p-edit: also what grey's saying is a gooood point.-
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cassielle Mafia Scum
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here's my issues with your schadd_ read.
1: your first quote is a lot of nothing imo. schadd_ did notice you had "put pressure" on the tb wagon, yeah, but creature and i noticed it wasnt actually very good, very half-assed in fact. you just applied pressure, there was no direction and youve never been able to point out where you wanted to go with it, you just jumped on board. imo, schadd_'s early read there? wrong, incorrect, v bad. and rather than analyze his logic-read of you in any detail, you focus on the tone-read. a tone-read is weak and doesnt go places, in my experience, butyou treat it like its v towny. to me that read on you is weak badtown or NAI bad play. why do you see it differently here? why focus onthe gut read? if its because its hard to self-analyze, why not say that instead of saying that leaning on analytics for scumreads can make a person look scummy (which is sorta casting doubt on my approach when im on to you)?
230 is a fair read, i give you.
2: 489 isnt a bad conclusion, but i think your reasoning is spurious. while the nonchalance is a light towntell, its also a very common scum cover in my experience. its something you pick up easily after seeing people dismiss people as obvtown based on it, and your scum game can use that as a cover for not putting down a big masterpost (which is incidentally something youve arguably been doing since i joined). id call it NAI with scumlean for experienced players and townlean for noobs. but you didnt mention that ofc. then you have the non-reasoning "self-meta matches up" bit which is imo just about meaningless. its fluff, youre puffing up the content there without adding much, and you sort of wink at this with the "if that makes any sense" to give yourself an out. theres nothing town about that part of this explanation except not feeling a need to make it clearer -- except youre -in the hot seat- so you really should feel that need even as town???
3: finally, the scum hunting bit is something youre mostly using to bolster your own reads, which is arguably not scummy or even anti-town, but its avoiding the point of this whole process, yeah?
and now, youre feeling pressured at l-2, when you feel like l-1 is a fair amount of pressure to throw on a hapless noob in the early game? im calling you scum, buddy
p-edit: GBT! i owe you a good answer, ill give it after this, wb!-
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gbT is townlean for me. the answer cinched it, but the seed was planted when i saw post 277, where gbT is done being town leader and just gets down to straight up saying "i want peoples input". its not asked directly to those people (that would feel like scumbuddying) but their names are mentioned (much more neutral). the answers were just sheeping and gbT didnt call it out hardcore, but it was mentioned and thats not a super-scum move esp combined with "GIVE ME INPUT" (which tends to imply "GIVE ME THE GOOD AND GIVE ME THE BAD AND GIVE ME THE INSANE")
rask is THE SEVENTH CIRCLE now. mbg is scumlean, tb and shade are my prefered scumbuddies for rask. scum busses and tb flaked quick when the pressure ratcheted, and shades been distant but rask has been mostly ignoring shade until people started staring his way.-
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@grey yeah i saw but thats why hes scumlean. i DO NOT like putting 4 people in my top scumlist, it feels wrong because half of that list is then incorrect. i prefer 3 people, and atm i feel like shade and tb owe us a loooot of explanation before we consider swapping one of them out.
@rask all true, but the thing is we have no clue about you being town. we dont know who you are at all tbh lol. and you just stink of scum all over, thats like the WIFOM thing i had with schadd_ -- a sprinkle of sugar on the top of a massive diabetes sundae, yeah? youre focusing onthe weakest part of my argument there, true, but youre missing that its also the most trivial. also the shade thing -- you expressed a bit of doubt then ignored it and focused hard on tb and rakkar lol, then when i come in and start pointing at you you swap to shade p much immediately. thats what i read buddy
@matt quickhammer would be a scum indicator from where im standing and id make it a policy lynch to wreck them on d2 for it.-
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btw from where im standing, i really dont want anyone putting rask at l-1 anyway just yet for diff reasons. i think its funny how he considered l-2 a lot of pressure but thought nothing of putting tb on l-1, it was something creature, i and prob others have found extremely lazy and half assed directionless pressure. we have a direction were taking this wagon, and we have less weight on it, why the squirming? theres a lot of trying to say "well obviously id be nervous its me not them" but i mean he seems incapable of seeing it from onthe outside where he took tb's breaking under pressure as a scumtell???-
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theres a lot of arguments youll have to find spurious reasoning in now. for now lets talk about the pressure, because i mean, no one but mbg seems particularly upset about this turn of events and mbg was only worried about l-1 because quickhammer. l-2 is perfectly comfortable on this side, and you dont understand us looking at your squirming as scummy.
why? i mean, tb broke under more, earlier, with worse and fewer arguments against him. what makes you so different that we need to read you differently than you did him?-
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wrt post 603: imo mbg is sheepy in general but im not caring too much, if rask flips red we got two whole days of leisurely scumhunting, and i would stake my life on rask being red atm. to rephrase: mbg having sheeped reasoning here isnt a break in character (hell its damn near his playstyle atm) and im feeling the rask wagon.-
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im feeling the same way about the defense dismissal. i also agree with mbg that 8 days is good time to keep up the scumhunting. rask is just like, digging this giant hole atm, not accepting pro-town advice early and its hurting him now on top of everything else. i think that wagon isnt at risk of losing momentum when the time comes and we can focus on finding scumbuddies. ill let you guys direct that tho because i dont mind giving rask more airtime to bury himself atm-
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1: claim could have been thinking he was at l-1 and not being around. ive read my share of noob games here and that is nooot uncommon -- someones not home, theyre at l-1 without intent, they claim and beg people not to hammer before they get home.
2: you never said a word about the underreaction, you let him lurk and moved to rakkar as your prime suspect lol
3: im saying that i dont think youre capable of convincing me you arent scum. if you want to try, you got all the rest of d1 to do so. i recommend working on an ironclad defense and making a masterpost on it instead of the fluffspam-
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