Newbie 1768: Party Mafia - Game over!

[tojam2]

VOTE: EccentricLemon

Lemons are inanimate as you well know.

[tojam2]

Also DO NOT TELL ANYONE IN THIS THREAD YOUR ROLE, regardless of its towniness.

@nancy: Encompass your vote with VOTE: [./v] (ignore the dot) to make it bold.

[tojam2]

I'm pretty sure kentofan applied to join my Open game (665 if anyone here wants to join, not as your first game though). I'll just wait for a conf message when the time comes I guess.

[tojam2]

Jae, I honestly can't work that out myself. Unless that's your way of stirring up conversation and starting the hunt, which I'm going to read you as Towny for.

[tojam2]

Jae, I honestly can't work that out myself. Unless that's your way of stirring up conversation and starting the hunt, which I'm going to read you as Towny for.

This doesn't really resonate with me.

Stirring up discussion alone is something that anyone can easily do, and in my opinion, not a very good basis for reads

. JaeReed also earned some townie points with me for that post, but it's because of the way he purposely didn't explain himself and left it up to everyone else to think about, which seems like a genuine town strategy. I do think it's possible that you were thinking along these lines and just weren't as specific about it.

Your read only applies if everyone on mafia has the same personality or playstyle.

You could use this logic against countless types of legitimate reads. Just because not everyone has the same playstyle doesn't mean you should ignore the subtle differences in the styles of people's messages. People aren't computers; there's almost always some kind of sign that people are genuine or pretending.

@toejam I don't see that as a TR. Saying you've read him a Town for starting discussion seems to me like the start of buddying up, which I would read as scum

Maybe. I'm a bit hesitant to scumread him for that because of reasons I mentioned above.

I'll finish replying to messages after I eat dinner.

Anyone can do it, but what reason does scum have to actually do it?

[tojam2]

@GL, I've never been a fan of p.1, baseless gut, having opinions prior to the game is noobscummy to me.

[tojam2]

Sorry, that's my mistake that I didn't reply to that comment.
I meant that no one was scummy so far. I was interested in where that vote might take the discussion. It didn't reveal that much new info to me, so keeping my vote there wouldn't do much and

might have even hurt me down the road

.

What do you mean by this? Why did you say it?

I can vote and unvote at any time, so unvoting wasn't an issue if I was trying to prove I'm not trying to be accusatory.

Why not be accusatory?

Well keeping my vote for GuiltyLion if I was trying not to be belligerent would have been a bad move because it would seem like I'm trying to throw him under the bus. Which is not what I'm going for. I'm not sure if I'm articulating what I'm trying to say correctly. I'll try to elaborate if my explanations don't make any sense.
We all know that at this point, everyone's basically out for themselves so there's no harm I think in pointing out that I did it in self-preservation.

I don't want to be accusatory because a mistake will likely make me seem scummier. If my aggressive actions get him hanged and he turns out to be town, people are going to come after me because I'm already suspicious. I mean, it seems like everything I say is making me more and more suspicious anyway.
Also I'm a newbie and I'm still learning how the game works and I don't want to try anything too (emphasis on the too) risky until I've had some experience. I'm seeing that posting what I said that early was a bad idea (?).

@GL, I've never been a fan of p.1, baseless gut, having opinions prior to the game is noobscummy to me.

I never said anything that would allude to me having opinions prior to the game. At least I don't believe so. Attack me all you want for that, but I think I made it pretty clear that all of my observations are pretty nebulous but have at least some sort of basis in what people have said.

I was talking about nancy and GuiltyLion

[tojam2]

- Jae, how concerned are you with Nancy's vote parked on you?

Somewhat. The issue is when someone gets a scumread they should be voting for said scumread, not parked on a null.

I'm not going to make that mistake either:
VOTE: nancy

[tojam2]

- Jae, how concerned are you with Nancy's vote parked on you?

Somewhat. The issue is when someone gets a scumread they should be voting for said scumread, not parked on a null.

I'm not going to make that mistake either:
VOTE: nancy

Why are you just now making this vote after Jae expresses their concern? Most of your posts throughout the game have to do with nancy's lack of a vote on you, yet you don't vote on it until now. Feels like you're skimming along and piggybacking off of Jae, especially when Jae expressed their concern about Nancy's vote before you did.

I normally play from mobile because I'm short on time, so I change my vote less because reaching the square brackets is more finicky than on a computer, I've got a sinus infection so I'm home-bound for now, meaning that I can change my vote more easily on my computer, it's a 'can't be arsed' style situation. Also, that's not the first time I'd expressed my concerns about nancy so don't try and call me out for sheeping the IC.

[tojam2]

Tojam, it's also very hypocritical of you to have a scumread on someone for leaving their vote on their first random vote, and then do the exact same thing.

Erm, that's not why I scum read her. Is this just being unobservant or are you deliberately not reading everything in the thread?

[tojam2]

First of all, tojam, I'm not buying you not changing your vote because you're on your phone. Most of my posts have been from my phone too, it's not very hard to put [s in or just click the vote button on top of the reply box.

Now, you tell me where I'm drawing the wrong conclusion in this.

19: Nancy votes Jae for telling her how to vote, while getting a gut scumread from you.

27: Jae asks her why she voted for them and not you for the same thing.

39: You post that you agree with Jae and read them towny for it.

47: Nancy reveals she has a gut-scum read on you for 7 and 9 that she can't explain.

81: You say that having opinions prior to the game (7 and 9) is noobscummy of nancy

85: Jae says they are somewhat concerned with Nancy not voting her biggest scumread (you)

111: You quote Jae expressing concern over Nancy not voting a scumread and vote her.

I have two primary issues with what went down.

First, yes I am accusing you of buddying/sheeping the IC. Almost all of your content that is specific to this game is repeating stuff that Jae already has expressed.

My bigger concern is that your post where you vote Nancy quotes Jae expressing concern that Nancy left her vote parked in a null and didn't move it to a scumread. I'm assuming that is the actual reason you are voting Nancy because you quoted that in your post. The problem is that you did the exact same thing - 39 and 81 both are displaying a scumread of Nancy and yet your vote was left on Lemon, who you voted in your very first post.

If 81 is your actual reason for voting Nancy (noobscummy to have opinions prior to the game): the game had certainly already started, Jae had pointed out that it's common for people to start hunting from the getgo (in 41), and you still never moved your vote to Nancy!

So yeah, I feel pretty good with a VOTE: tojam.

39 - was reading Jae towny for drumming up conversation, which scum may not want to do because it produces readable content with more time in the day, I did not agree with jae's statement about what you said

81 - noobscum would pick someone to apply pressure to before the game, like a plan of action as if mafia has a strict order.

Also, I doubt I'm the first person to delay moving their vote. It was Jae's comment that reminded me to move it, 81 was my reasoning. So if you want to have it your way, Jae's comment about not moving RVS votes contributed to me moving my vote.

[tojam2]

Hey GL,

Do you think Eccentric Lemon is town?

What do you think of me?

Why you ignore my hello?

What did you think of my freudian slip?

I know its not for me but I'd like to not solely focus on Nancy and bowdown.

1. I've not noticed anything as standout town or scum, nulltown.

2. Can't say I've cared much about your posts.

[tojam2]

Good morning everyone! First game of mafia ever, though I used to play werewolf on a different forum like 5 years ago. Getting caught up now but let's start with a

vote toejam

because gross.

Mafia and werewolf are the same game, different flavor.

Hey, GuiltyLion, you there?

Hey GL,

Do you think Eccentric Lemon is town?

What do you think of me?

Why you ignore my hello?

What did you think of my freudian slip?

I don't know how this is for everyone else, but to me, the lack of substance in Titus' posts weirds me out. To me, it feels like what someone would post if they are only going through the motions of playing the game. I don't know if this is how she plays all the time, since she seems like a pretty experienced player. I think Jae or someone did mention that they played against them before and killed her only to find out she was town, which leads me to believe this is just how she plays. (is this metagaming?)
What's especially weird, though, is that the first question in post 127 is asking GL what his opinion is on something that he had just answered two posts before and the third question just seems irrelevant.

Same thing with tojam:

I know its not for me but I'd like to not solely focus on Nancy and bowdown.

1. I've not noticed anything as standout town or scum, nulltown.

2. Can't say I've cared much about your posts.

Says he wants to focus on someone other than nancy and bowdown while also saying that he has no opinion on the two other players he says he is discussing. This entire post doesn't provide any new information and gives off the same vibe as Titus' posts--that he's just going through the motions.

Taking into account that last post and bowdown's commentary,my vote is for tojam.
VOTE: tojam2

If this is your first game, getting into a tussle in Mafia is time-consuming and raises mt blood pressure, which I've been told is bad because I have a sinus infection. Sometimes I need a minute off task.

[tojam2]

@Jae I assume you're referring to me with "forced jokes". I was attempting to start the thread off in a light-hearted manner, unaware that the atmosphere on scum was so severe. I don't agree with your nulltown reading of toejam. Your read only applies if everyone on mafia has the same personality or playstyle.

@toejam I don't see that as a TR. Saying you've read him a Town for starting discussion seems to me like the start of buddying up, which I would read as scum (I was already gutreading you as scum), and which also makes me think that he is Town. Unless you counted on someone making that analysis, in which case he could just as well be your partner, which takes him back to a null read.

Seen as you asked, as I've said plenty of times.
Scum would be giving town more time to hunt by starting conversation.

[tojam2]

I'm at L-2, I'm not going to let you waste more of your time.
I'm the 1 shot BP.

[tojam2]

@JaeReed tojam2 has IRL issues, the time to allay the scurvy has come.

I wouldn't really call a sinus infection an IRL issue, t gives me more time to do this stuff.

[tojam2]

Not fully here yet but:

1) I don't want EL to be the leading wagon, vote elsewhere please. After reading nancy's post I think there's a decent chance EL really is just newbtown.
2) I am decently confident that scum is in {bowdown, revan, GuiltyLion, Titus}
3) This means I am townreading {nancy, Agent Sparkles, EccentricLemon}

UNVOTE:

I'll be responding to stuff first then rereading to see where my reads are at with tojam claiming bp.
Also, tojam's claim is more likely to be legitimate here because of the timing of it and the way he did so. The line about not wasting time, specifically.

@tojam In future it's best to fight your lynch without claiming, especially as we still had a lot of time left in the day. BP is generally a role that you want to try to be obnoxious as hell towards scum with, but you should also never just claim bp if you're claiming it. It's best to claim bp or doc, as both can exist with and without the roleblocker, so scum are left with a good deal with wifom. The same goes for if you're a doctor, it's best to claim bp or doc. Don't outright lie about it and just claim the opposite, either, because you'll likely cause the remaining PR in those situations to out themselves thinking they're counterclaiming scum.

I already did try, and I was getting so focused on it I was failing to see the bigger picture, I wasn't reading other people's posts to look for slips (either way), re-reading e.t.c. my brain needed me to claim for mental satisfaction.

[tojam2]

So what's next here? Does PR cc now? Wait until tomorrow? Something else?

I'll actually answer this with some quotes from the first game I ever read on the site. Partially because I'm lazy. Note that since this was during a game the situation is slightly different to our own. How someone claims matters somewhat, too. Every game is different.

Spoiler: PR ramblings from Nachomamma8

As far as prioritizing scumreads go, you should always always always prioritize your strongest scumread over any others. The only time when you should be prioritizing someone based on threat level is if you have personal experience with someone (meaning that they could shoot you and drift through the rest of the game much easier); in most other cases, threat level is high on a player because you can't read them very well, which should make you less willing to lynch someone, not more.

(PR rambling starts here.)

Basic PR theory tends to change based on the situation you're in. In this setup specifically, if you're a cop and there are two scum alive, you're looking to target someone who is likely living to endgame. The idea behind that is forcing scum to kill people that they didn't plan on killing OR giving a town a useful confirmed innocent somewhere down the road. If you take this route and scum doesn't kill you or your innocent, it's probably a good idea to claim Day 2; it will confirm you as town and it will confirm your innocent as town meaning if you have two solid town reads then you outright win the game (a townblock of 4 players allows you to lynch the remaining 3 in 7p).

If you're a cop/tracker and there's one scum alive, investigate who the town is planning on lynching. Either you end the game outright, or you give people as much time to reevaluate as possible. If the scum that was lynched was a roleblocker, then you out your role and your result immediately, take the game to no lynch and continue doing so until the doctor is dead; this results in a win in a majority of scenarios.

If you're a tracker/jailkeeper and there's two scum alive, follow your heart. In a two man scum team, there is generally scum in a weak position and scum in a strong position. Scum in the strong position are less likely to be tracked but are a greater loss to the scumteam when they are tracked. Scum in the weak position are more likely to be tracked but are a smaller loss to the scumteam when they are tracked. If you don't see anyone go anywhere, it is not an innocent; their scumpartner could have been the player who submitted the kill.

That being said, don't ignore your results; if you track a really, really scummy player and they didn't go anywhere, then they might be town; usually when scum are dealing with terrible partners they make them submit the kill.

If you are a Jailkeeper, you also have the option to protect your strongest townread: it's usually easier to block a kill this way although the results are not as juicy as if you block a scummy player. However, just because there's no kill after you protected your strongest townread it doesn't mean innocent; your strongest townread could have been scum submitting the kill. Just because there's no kill after you blocked your strongest scumread doesn't mean guilty; sometimes scum makes strange kill choices.

If you are a Jailkeeper and there is one scum left, claim immediately; if there is a one-shot bulletproof in the setup, they should claim as well. If a one-shot bulletproof claims, block them overnight; if they are scum they will be unable to kill, which means that if you are shot that night they are confirmed town the next day and if you aren't they will be unable to win (sometimes scum will no kill in this situation, which means use your best judgment). If no one claims bulletproof, block whoever you want to overnight but claim your target before you do so; that way, if scum kill you, that person will become confirmed town.

Spoiler: Counterclaiming from Nachomamma8

And remember the handy dandy when to counterclaim!

If someone claims cop, everyone should wait for a one-shot bulletproof (if it exists) to counterclaim. If no one-shot bulletproof counterclaims, then cop/tracker/jailkeeper should counterclaim.

If someone claims tracker, cop/jailkeeper/tracker should counterclaim.

If someone claims jailkeeper, doctor gets the opportunity to counterclaim first, then cop/jailkeeper/tracker should counterclaim.

If someone claims doctor, wait for a doctor or one-shot bulletproof to claim first, then counterclaim if you are a jailkeeper.

If someone claims one-shot bulletproof, wait for a doctor or one-shot bulletproof to claim first, then counterclaim if you are a cop.

People claiming doctor/bulletproof and not getting counterclaimed doesn't make them town, so sometimes

it's better to lynch them even though they are claiming PR.

In this specific situation, if Fragger claimed doctor/bulletproof, I'd probably be for lynching him anyways.
If Fragger claims tracker/cop/jailkeeper I wouldn't believe him for a moment, but I'd happily lynch Occ in his place; we wouldn't have enough time for a counterclaim anyways and it would allow the tracker/cop/jailkeeper to possibly snag an extra innocent/block a kill and he wouldn't be able to win if Occ was his scumpartners anyways (although tracker counterclaiming here would be fine).

Thanks Jae, real easy way for scum to lynch me.

[tojam2]

The edit is in the second spoiler.

[tojam2]

@EL why are you still voting me even though I claimed and no-one has CC'd?

[tojam2]

ElectricLemon's phrasing suggests she knows that nancy is town. In 68, she says nancy isn't trying to "prove her innocence", why not say she is not trying to appear town? Minor, but it caused me to want more of a look.

EL also makes a big deal about how he's not pushing anyone, as if sbe doesn't want to upset anyone. Her "push" if you can call it that, fades when "the cool kids" unvote. She makes a big deal about how she's not accusing anyone.

Then, she throws a comment that me playing quieter means that there's a 1 v 1 with conftown.

Or you're the conf town, like last time we played a newbie together.

[tojam2]

Also you misgendered EL at least once in that quote.

[tojam2]

But we do need to decide on a lynch in the next 48 hours before we rush a mislynch.

[tojam2]

@Revan: We don't want to be in a position where we've lynched a town IC and the first reason we suspected them is that they are IC and most capable of appearing Towny when they're scum.

[tojam2]

tojam, what are your reads/thoughts on where we lunch?

There's a nice Turkish in my village, best doner kebap in the north west.

I don't want to see myself, you, Nancy, Titus or Jae lynched today, lynching townJae could break the game for town.

[tojam2]

Let's imagine a hypothetical scenario for a moment. Assume EccentricLemon is scum. JaeReed asks me to question my TR of EL and afterwards begins to post very actively. In the midst of this they put their first vote of the game on tojam2 with little to no justification (his worst crime at that point was basically not posting enough content), and post their reads list/tier. After intimating that their preference was for wagoning to pressure players (demonstrated in practice by their vote on tojam2), they claim, in rather uncertain terms, that in light of a newbie's post they believe EL may be Town (am I really meant to believe that I pointed things out to them that they hadn't already seen?), unvotes, expresses the opinion that we should not focus on Lemon, and suggests to me that a conflicted read is fine as a null read (sounds like great advice, but it also greatly serves their rescue of Lemon). Their previous hesitance to scumhunt is gone, they begin dispensing advice and towncred freely, and are quickly directing Town in directions away from Lemon.

So yes, right now I believe that JaeReed and EccentricLemon are scum partners. Take a look at 168 again, too, or previous examples of Jae ignoring people's questions when they're part of a scumhunting effort directed against them.

Hypothetical being me and EL as scum partners.
Why would I question your townread on EL rather than just agree in much the same manner that GL did? By asking about your townread I opened up my hypothetical partner in that case to you re-evaluating on them, with me knowing full well they're too newb to defend themselves effectively. It would be a lot better for me in that situation to allow the townreads to amass on my partner and push a hypothetical town Titus to a lynch since she was voting my partner.

Sometimes it takes a different perspective, and it's important to consider others perspectives because they might have picked up on something that you missed. That's not to say you should follow them over your own judgement, but yes, I looked at your post about EL, thought about your reasonings, pointed out the things I agreed/disagreed with in it, and ended up agreeing with your original assessment.

Also yes, I became more involved with the game after a week of soft directing on the basics of scumhunting and doing my own poking at certain things. I really don't believe there was a hesitance to scumhunt though. A hesitance to push and give reads too early, certainly, but not to scumhunt altogether.

If I've ignored questions it's more likely I just didn't remember they were asked or hadn't gotten around to catching up to that point yet. Feel free to quote at me if you think I missed something.

Noobiness is indicative that this player is a noon, not more.

[tojam2]

I meant noob, damn autocorrect

[tojam2]

I'm here, just haven't found the time to make a post. I'm gonna start rereading now

Post coming soon

Also in D2 make sure this slot posts good content. If he doesn't, lynch him, because it's possible he's just coasting off the early towncred he got from his posts.

Usually mods would have replaced a slot like this by now. I've seen it happen before that mods are hesitant to replace someone doing this kind of thing because the person is mafia and strategically lurking (an example is Newbie 1705 where Equinox didn't want to replace someone blatantly prod dodging because it's a strategic move as mafia, and more recently in Newbie 1760 thenameipicked wasn't force replaced as mafia either, though he was just straight up absent).

That said, as far as the mod meta, don't put as much stock in to that. I don't know what Cakey is like as far as his replacement policies and there's no rule in his ruleset forbidding prod dodges from what I can see, so it's also just possibly a moot point.

Interesting.

[tojam2]

But I'd still like to point out that according to Cakez' matrix, there isn't necessarily a bulletproof town in the game at all.

UNVOTE: tojam2

The only way I could be scum is if we're using line 1 instead of line A or 3 as there is a VT in that line (who doesn't know they were selected from the matrix). Doctor would CC if we were using line C, and Cop on 2 or B, so you've got a 66.7% chance that I'm elling the truth, theoretically, if a PR get roleblocked in the night I'm a conftown.

[tojam2]

So guys Lemon or Revan, I'm personally more happy with Lemon but I don't want to push a lynch without you guys getting one of them to L-1 again.

[tojam2]

VOTE: EL

Rather them over GL for now.

[tojam2]

VC please mod.

[tojam2]

GL, you might as well be doing nothing because I can't see 5 people moving a vote to Titus in 18 hours.

[tojam2]

Anyone voting a minority wagon or not voting at all can consider themselves scum at day end, I will be back in 9 hours and again an hour before deadline.

[tojam2]

Was there a lynch?
Intend to hammer at 4 pm GMT.

[tojam2]

VOTE: EL

Also, when he thought I directed one of my earlier questions at him that was paranoia I think.

[tojam2]

By the way, this nk does mean that scum has a roleblocker and that I am the last PR.

[tojam2]

bowdown, as much as I'd like to policy lynch sparkles for lack of activity, it's NAI and EL is more suspect.

[tojam2]

I was talking about nancy and GuiltyLion

I'm so sorry, I misread that GL as an EL. My bad. Sorry I called you out on it. [/b]

EccentricLemon has been awfully quiet

I just got home from school plus a 5 hour meet. Just to clarify.

My take on Titus' vote is that if she is scum, she is trying to jump on the bandwagon to further people's distrust of me, since I'm already suspicious. If Titus is town, she might perceive me as a real threat.
However, I am concerned about the lack of explanation past:

VOTE: EccentricLemon
My bad. I am showing off the naked voting strategy, so not yet.

and

VOTE: EccentricLion
Gut

We're already into some good discussions and there's quite a lot to base a reason off of. I've said quite a bit and so have other people. Just saying "Gut" seems a bit weird if you ask me.

That's paranoia right there.

[tojam2]

Revan, Sparkles, who would you vote for if I forced you to vote?

Lemon, if Titus' argument is invalid, why aren't you voting for her.

[tojam2]

@EL: A little over-defensive but I'll consider it newbiness for now.

@AS: 2 weeks should be long enough to decide on a vote.

VOTE: Titus

Titus is at L-1, lolhammers are a scumclaim if she flips town.

[tojam2]

I'm not even sure how I convinced myself to do that, lapse in concentration probably.

VOTE: AS for the reasons above.

[tojam2]

Jeez, I didn't realise I could inadvertently create so much content by fking up my vote.

[tojam2]

EL, what pressure am I under? I'm not going to get lynched (and I personally prefer a slightly more detached scumgame) so why defend Titus if I am scum, sure, 1/2 times I'm lying and I'm a goon, and scum!tojam has no roleblocker to save.

[tojam2]

VOTE: Titus Defeatism and over-reacting to my fked up vote.

[tojam2]

Partly PoE: tojam is town, EL is newb town, Sparkles is lurky but all his posts are towny. That leaves those three.

For individual cases: my predecessor covered Revan pretty well, case on Titus should be obvious, case on GL is based on forced interactions with Titus especially today and some overall behavior I can go more in depth on if requested from yesterday.

@Revan, tojam - you both voted EL yesterday, would you want a lynch there today?

@tojam, Sparkles - what were your reasons for not voting Nancy during the flashlynch yesterday?

@GL - would you be fine with a Revan lynch today?

At the start of day 2 I made it clear I wanted EL lynched.
Nancy was lolhammered, I intended to hammer an hour before deadline as I said.

[tojam2]

At the start of day 2 I made it clear I wanted EL lynched.

I don't agree that you made it clear you wanted me lynched:

VOTE: EL

Also, when he thought I directed one of my earlier questions at him that was paranoia I think.

@EL: A little over-defensive but I'll consider it newbiness for now.

@AS: 2 weeks should be long enough to decide on a vote.

VOTE: Titus

I'm not even sure how I convinced myself to do that, lapse in concentration probably.

VOTE: AS for the reasons above.

VOTE: Titus Defeatism and over-reacting to my fked up vote.

At the start of day 2 I made it clear I wanted EL lynched.

This is an extremely quick progression. If you really wanted me lynched that bad, why'd you vote AS and then Titus again instead of going back to me?
This doesn't make sense at all. You go from voting me because I seem "paranoid", to having a "lapse in concentration" and voting Titus, to voting AS for not voting, to voting Titus again because she's acting defeated and overreacting, to finally "I made it clear I wanted EL lynched".
I'm having a VERY tough time believing you're town. If you're town, you need to get your crap together because disorder only helps scum.

EL posts as if he knows everyone in the thread is town.

How on earth do I post as if I know everyone is town? In post #740, I presented a scenario where GL was scum. I've been pretty consistently distrusting of tojam. Like I said before, just because my strongest scumread is you, doesn't mean I townread everyone else.

Time between those 2 quotes was 3 days, don't misrep that.

[tojam2]

Ah fk, mod, can you remove one of those please.

[tojam2]

@AS, I'm fine with you hammering, game's going stale so we might not get any closer to finding a partner today.

[tojam2]

Revan, I don't see where Sobolev makes any sort of claim that she's got the game figured out. I agree that I'd prefer if she provided more evidence with her claims, but she does provide some basis for her opinions. It seems like what you're trying to do there is the same thing as Titus: try to exaggerate her claim to make it seem as ludicrous as possible so that people don't vote for you.

I've already given pretty conclusive final thoughts on Titus in post #771 and it still stands. So far everything Titus has said has supported my stance against her. I've never been against changing my opinions with new information, but the only new information I'm getting is in support of scum!Titus. My vote stays and I encourage those that haven't voted yet to reread GL's arguments and mine.

Time between those 2 quotes was 3 days, don't misrep that.

I'm not misrepresenting the fact that you claimed to have wanted me lynched and voted for basically everyone but me over the span of those three days when every little new material was being put forth.

Now that is serious misrepping, over those 3 days I kept my vote on you, then I fled up my vote on AS

[tojam2]

Prodge, also no idea why I haven't done this already with all the alt facts EL has been giving VOTE: EL

[tojam2]

Hey, I'm going to highlight the obvious here and move back to EL in case it's EL/SS.

SS has said lynch GL/Titus/Revan in any order, yet doesn't provide content on me and is attempting to divert attention. It looks like SS wants it both ways. I suspected Titus too but she was town, so let's follow her reads. Flip GL. Town loses.

VOTE: EL

1) This is only a plausible theory if you're town, which I really doubt at this point.
2) Assuming that I'm wrong: If Sobolev wanted to blindly follow a dead townie's reads and lynch GL, why did she move GL to a townread after nancy called GL out as definite scum? And what happened to this?

I am not voting anyone but those two. Period.

Tojam, what about the ones that Titus has been giving? Are her "shading nancy" and "you tricked them" comments less scummy?

@EL has tried to make this personal with me, even though 8/9 times you run my claim through a simulator I'd turn out town

[tojam2]

Of course, if EL is town, all eyes on Titus.

[tojam2]

@EccentricLemon is at L-1

[tojam2]

Who's not voting for either?

[tojam2]

They tried to kill me?

[tojam2]

VOTE: EL Enough said.

[tojam2]

NL is a possibility, but if we don't lynch today, if just 1 person misplaces a vote tomorrow then it's gg.

[tojam2]

Besides, scum has set this up so they can kill me (the only conf town) tonight. I have 5 people to assess and I think EL is scummiest seen as Titus has now flipped town.

[tojam2]

Who do you think IS scum then Sobolev, because if it isn't EL or Revan then the partnership must surely be GL/Sparkles.

[tojam2]

UNVOTE:

[tojam2]

Tempted to vote SS based on that and the No Lynch call, but I can't make an assumption that big.

[tojam2]

VOTE: EL seen as the 3 of us agree on it.

[tojam2]

@GL no backseat gaming please, we need some thoughts.

[tojam2]

Btw, my reads:

EL, Revan

GL, SS

AS

tojam2

[tojam2]

Actually, EL is slightly scummier than Revan.

[tojam2]

Of course, if we lynch scum today, i die and we go into 3v1 mylo, at which point you guys should no lynch.

[tojam2]

tojam, I really don't see the case for scum!EL. Why do you think she's scum?

She tried tunneling me when I was conftown.

@tojam - why the townread on AS?

@GL - I see what you're saying about Revan but given Titus's flip I'm having trouble seeing Revan being partnered with anyone left. I guess most likely would probably be AS. I also agree with you about the EL case - it seemed pretty weak to me.

Sparkles hasn't done anything to attract my attention, and looking at my average read, he's townier.

[tojam2]

Prodge, I acknowledge your point EL but I'm still technically not conftown.

[tojam2]

So EL or Revan, or both? I'm indifferent.

[tojam2]

VOTE: Revan Tomorrow is a no lynch regardless of the outcome.

[tojam2]

@Cakez: rip, that's not me this year.

[tojam2]

Prodge, my vote is staying where it is. @Revan saying that mislynching you will end the game sounds so desperate it hurts.

[tojam2]

@SS: Problem now is that scum leave me alive tonight as lynchbait for tomorrow (#940)

[tojam2]

@AS: Nope, I'm fine, I've played long enough now that when a game goes stale with pretty much found scum.

[tojam2]

Or you get a sharp increase in posts, but that's less often as scum finds it easier to lurk.

[tojam2]

@AS, are you scum?

[tojam2]

As/GL maybe