Newbie 1768: Party Mafia - Game over!

[EccentricLemon]

While your vote set things off, this has definitely been brewing for a while.

[GuiltyLion]

I'm

obviously

treating an un-CC'd PR claim as town. And I'm not treating AS as town. Titus is just shotgunning desperate accusations now.

[SirCakez]

Seeking a replacement for bowdown.

[SirCakez]

Votecount 2.3

Titus (2) - GuiltyLion, EccentricLemon
Agent Sparkles (2) - bowdown, tojam2
EccentricLemon (1) - Titus

Not voting (2) - Revan, Agent Sparkles

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch someone.

(expired on 2017-02-01 15:04:00) remain until day end

[EccentricLemon]

Revan, I really would like an explanation for your vote on Titus and then your quick changing of your vote. Or at least some explanation as to what exactly was going through your mind there. It looks more like a desperate "oh crap, that's my partner and I don't actually want them dead" to me more than anything. You don't seem to be making a lot of your own decisions, as you did something very similar yesterday.

[Revan]

I haven't voted Titus for 2 weeks.

Hm.

[EccentricLemon]

Sorry, I meant tojam. I'm multitasking right now.

[EccentricLemon]

24 hours without an error

0 hours without an error

[SirCakez]

Sobolev Space replaces bowdown! Please welcome her.

[Agent Sparkles]

Welcome, Sobolev Space.

Revan, I really would like an explanation for your vote on Titus and then your quick changing of your vote. Or at least some explanation as to what exactly was going through your mind there. It looks more like a desperate "oh crap, that's my partner and I don't actually want them dead" to me more than anything. You don't seem to be making a lot of your own decisions, as you did something very similar yesterday.

Sorry, I meant tojam. I'm multitasking right now.

Why are you still pointing fingers at tojam? He claimed 1-shot bulletproof. Anyone with a BP role or something incompatible with it had every opportunity to call him out as a liar, and no one has done so. And it's clear that you aren't either, otherwise you wouldn't be pushing Titus over him.

Jeez, I didn't realise I could inadvertently create so much content by fking up my vote.

What do you think of what's happened since then?

1) I said I wouldn't decide to do it based on outside pressure. I'll vote when I think it's the right time to vote, not when the BP is asking me to.

2) A bolded VOTE: Player gives you no information. I've made it clear who I suspect of being scum.

1) When is the right time to vote, and why isn't it now?

2) is actually completely incorrect. Not only does your vote create direct and immediate pressure (because the person is one vote closer to being lynched), it also creates indirect pressure on all other players to respond to it. If someone is at L-1, everyone in the game better be weighing in on the lynch one way or the other, because a hammer could happen soon. Townies want to see their scumreads lynched and their townreads

not

lynched, so wagoning various players gives townies more opportunities to towntell and pushes scum into more opportunities to give themselves away.

when you have a bunch of people not voting and a few half-assed wagons, the game stagnates. You need to vote, and it's unclear to me why you're refusing to do so.

I've tried to give Revan time to respond to my case against him before voting, but it clearly isn't working, so I guess there's no reason to keep withholding it.

VOTE: Revan until I'm convinced otherwise.

[Agent Sparkles]

Titus, most of your posts don't have any meaning behind them, just repeatedly insisting that Lemon and GL are scum. The few real arguments you've made aren't especially persuasive.

[Sobolev Space]

Hey everyone! Looking forward to playing with y'all.

I'm pretty busy today but will hopefully be caught up on the thread by tomorrow when I'll start making some substantive posts. For now, can anybody give me a brief rundown of what's happened so far?

Also until I'm caught up UNVOTE:

[Titus]

Welp. This game is lost.

If the wagons where they buddy and save each other and the fakeness from their posts and their lying about buddying you are not evidence to you, well then y'all don't listen to evidence. That means we lose.

I am not voting anyone but those two. Period.

[tojam2]

EL, what pressure am I under? I'm not going to get lynched (and I personally prefer a slightly more detached scumgame) so why defend Titus if I am scum, sure, 1/2 times I'm lying and I'm a goon, and scum!tojam has no roleblocker to save.

[tojam2]

VOTE: Titus Defeatism and over-reacting to my fked up vote.

[Titus]

Yup, remind me to not play with toejam for awhile. Arrogant bastard. Vigs consensus townreads and never supposes he's wrong, never waits for his townreads approval.

Yes, I am defeated. It's because you're that incompetent.

[Revan]

Agent Sparkles what is your case?

[EccentricLemon]

Titus, insulting everyone isn't going to get anyone to vote with you. That's just low. You're also being pretty arrogant right now.

As for tojam, I was definitely more confused than catching a scumtell. To me, it's not proven yet that he's town because there's a chance that there might not be a bulletproof town. I agree that the odds are small, but they're not nonexistent. That whole post was super weird and I can't wrap my head around it. I see a lot of that with tojam's posts and I'm still trying to figure out if it's just an incompatibility in playing styles.

Which kind of brings me to another point, because Titus actually pointed this out but later seems to be completely certain that there's a roleblocker. Just another inconsistency.

[Titus]

Confident, not arrogant. The rest of the thread is arrogant by refusing to even hear the thoughts but deny they exist.

Confidence in toejam being town is not an inconsistency. I am confident you are the roleblocker and that's why GuiltyLion is lying to save you.

[EccentricLemon]

By the way, this nk does mean that scum has a roleblocker and that I am the last PR.

Yes, from your perspective. Technically, you still mathmatically could be scum. I have zero interest in lynching you though.

You acknowledged right here that tojam could still be scum and you still haven't actually said why you think I'm the roleblocker that you stated here may not even exist.
Confidence became arrogance when you started insulting people for not agreeing with something that you refused to back up, even after being asked multiple times to reiterate your argument. I asked you twice and gave you time to reply before I voted you up, Revan has asked you to multiple times. Saying no one will listen to your argument is a flat out lie.

Hello Sobolev!
I got off to a rough start, but how I'd summarize the game D1 is:
* I (Lemon) used some weird language at the beginning which resulted in me being voted up, where I got super defensive and apologetic. (You should definitely read that and make of it what you will.)
* There was quite a bit here between nancy and bowdown and JaeReed which I got a bit confused in. bowdown is the player you replaced)
* Eventually Revan joined and we started voting him up because we thought he was being inconsistent.
* The vote quickly got changed to me.
* nancy slipped a comment that seemed like it indicated that she was aware of alignment, so the vote quickly changed to her.
You should still definitely read yesterday's (game yesterday) posts, especially at the end of the game since I feel a lot was summarized there.

As for today:
* Titus has been pushing that Lemon and GuiltyLion are scumpartners for unclear reasons (again, you should read into that argument and make of it what you will, because GL, Revan, and maybe AgentSparkles seem to find it unclear)
* GL and I are pushing back, we think Titus is scum (again, make sure to read our arguments and decide on your own whether you think they are valid)
* Another topic that just came up is my general distrust in tojam (another thing to read in on, he made a claim D1, it's up to you to decide if my argument is justified or not)
* Currently it's also a bit of a question about whether not voting is keeping information away from the rest of the players (mostly between AgentSparkles and GuiltyLion)
I tried my best to make it as impartial as possible. Welcome!

[Titus]

By the way, this nk does mean that scum has a roleblocker and that I am the last PR.

Yes, from your perspective. Technically, you still mathmatically could be scum. I have zero interest in lynching you though.

You acknowledged right here that tojam could still be scum and you still haven't actually said why you think I'm the roleblocker that you stated here may not even exist.
Confidence became arrogance when you started insulting people for not agreeing with something that you refused to back up, even after being asked multiple times to reiterate your argument. I asked you twice and gave you time to reply before I voted you up, Revan has asked you to multiple times. Saying no one will listen to your argument is a flat out lie.

Hello Sobolev!
I got off to a rough start, but how I'd summarize the game D1 is:
* I (Lemon) used some weird language at the beginning which resulted in me being voted up, where I got super defensive and apologetic. (You should definitely read that and make of it what you will.)
* There was quite a bit here between nancy and bowdown and JaeReed which I got a bit confused in. bowdown is the player you replaced)
* Eventually Revan joined and we started voting him up because we thought he was being inconsistent.
* The vote quickly got changed to me.
* nancy slipped a comment that seemed like it indicated that she was aware of alignment, so the vote quickly changed to her.
You should still definitely read yesterday's (game yesterday) posts, especially at the end of the game since I feel a lot was summarized there.

As for today:
* Titus has been pushing that Lemon and GuiltyLion are scumpartners for unclear reasons (again, you should read into that argument and make of it what you will, because GL, Revan, and maybe AgentSparkles seem to find it unclear)
* GL and I are pushing back, we think Titus is scum (again, make sure to read our arguments and decide on your own whether you think they are valid)
* Another topic that just came up is my general distrust in tojam (another thing to read in on, he made a claim D1, it's up to you to decide if my argument is justified or not)
* Currently it's also a bit of a question about whether not voting is keeping information away from the rest of the players (mostly between AgentSparkles and GuiltyLion)
I tried my best to make it as impartial as possible. Welcome!

Word vomit.

Yes, I acknowledged a theoretical possibility to teach toejam something given his recent play. From his perspective, he a roleblocker is a certainty. From ours, we will never have absolute certainty. Yet, read the next sentence. I have zero interest in lynching him.

The vote changed to nancy fast because GL shaded Nancy and scum quick hammerred her. There was nothing remotely close to a slip but you still shade the dead and GL should know better.

[EccentricLemon]

I never said you had any intention of lynching him. I said you acknowledged that there is a chance of him being scum.

[GuiltyLion]

The vote changed to nancy fast because GL shaded Nancy and scum quick hammerred her. There was nothing remotely close to a slip but you still shade the dead and GL should know better.

holy

shit

this is an ENORMOUS misrep. Like a complete denial of reality and projection of a completely different narrative. Titus is espousing "alternative facts", to borrow a popular phrase these days. This 100% comes from scum, there's no possible universe in which town!Titus can genuinely believe this. The goal here is to distort reality as much as possible.

Let's review:

Here's vote count 1.10:

Votecount 1.10

EccentricLemon (4) - Titus, Revan, tojam2, bowdown
Revan (2) - GuiltyLion, Agent Sparkles
GuiltyLion (1) - nancy

Not voting (2) - EccentricLemon, JaeReed

At this point in time, no one had voted nancy yet. EL was the leading wagon with Titus leading the charge. But shortly before this VC, nancy had posted this:

I don't think [GL's] claim is particularly relevant at this point. If he's the real jailer (1/7) then we're fucked, but otherwise it's irrelevant. If he's mafia, he'll almost certainly claim jailer to try to and bait a cc. I doubt the real jailer would out at this point, preferring to just hammer or wait for someone else to hammer if they're already on the wagon. He could also claim vanilla, but this is unlikely because it doesn't do anything for his chances of survival and doesn't stand to give his partner anything to work with. In other words, real jailer shouldn't out/cc D1, so a jailer claim should be ignored. No matter who we lynch we're running a 1/7 chance of being wrong and lynching the real jailer. I like those odds.

^this is what looked to be a slip. Nancy made multiple assumptions of a jailer in the setup, no mention of a tracker - which would be equally possible from a VT perspective, given the BP claim. The only ones who would know at this point whether a JK existed in the game or not were JaeReed (confirmed JK), and the mafia. So from JaeReed's POV, this looks very much like a scumslip. bowdown and Jae call it out immediately:

Or tracker?

Slip in Nancy's 429? Not running her up today but need to make sure we talk about this tomorrow.

Yup. Would vastly prefer to lynch her off that alone. It shows knowledge of there being a roleblocker in the setup. The only people who would know for sure the setup are scum and the jailkeeper, and scum would be more likely to be fixated on jailkeeper to the point where they forget main thread knowledge isn't in line with that. The jailkeeper would be doing everything in their power to not slip knowledge of the setup because scum could find them and nightkill them in that situation.

Had another look and I can't remember why I had early in my notes a nancy/Agent team but it might not be Agent as her partner. I wasn't looking at her pairings as closely all game because I was townreading her.

I mean, this is a case that's strongest if we get a jailkeeper flip and rendered completely moot with a tracker flip so idunno for sure yet, but I'm pretty sure I just witnessed an actual slip, which is usually really rare and things people push on as slips generally comes to semantics but I don't think that's what this was.

At which point they swap their votes, along with Revan in 482, which leads us here:

Votecount 1.11

nancy (3) - JaeReed, Revan, bowdown
Revan (3) - GuiltyLion, Agent Sparkles, EccentricLemon
EccentricLemon (2) - Titus, tojam2
GuiltyLion (1) - nancy

But look at what Titus just said.

"GL shaded nancy"

. I'm sorry, but no. That simply never happened. I was townreading nancy for the vast majority of D1, and when I saw her first post I actually figured it was a JK-slip. It was only confirmed that she was not the JK by Jae's push on her and her admitting it herself in 506. If you read through my ISO, I NEVER pushed or shaded nancy, ESPECIALLY NOT during the critical period at which the wagon switched. You can see even in 456 it's pretty clear I'm townreading her. when I came back to the game and read through the latest developments between my 459 and 528, and saw that nancy stated she was not the JKer in 506, nancy was already at L-1 with half a day or so until deadline, giving me basically no choice other than to hammer (which I was happy to do regardless).

Titus is presenting a version of reality that simply does not exist. She's bullshitting through and through.

she is scum

.

[GuiltyLion]

okay, so I went through and reread and I don't want to lynch {tojam, nancy, Lemon, Jae} today.

and here's a post confirming that I had a townread on nancy in mid/late D1. You can start at this post in my ISO and read through the rest (or even just ctrl+F "nancy"), I literally do not talk about nancy or to even TO nancy (other than 456) again until I stated intent to hammer with a few hours left in the day. The "shade" that Titus just referred to literally never happened.

There's no way that a townie honestly following the events of the game would get the story wrong like this.

[EccentricLemon]

The vote changed to nancy fast because GL shaded Nancy and scum quick hammerred her.

I don't agree that the hammering can be described as "quick". The vote changed pretty quickly, I agree, but there was still time for nancy to defend herself. The hammer didn't come for a while. GL had stated an intent to hammer beforehand. I also made a big point where I said that I didn't want to hammer exactly because I wanted to leave nancy time to defend, because I would not be online for the rest of the game day. nancy herself admitted that she understood why people voted her:

I am stupid it was my dumb jailer assumption that got me lynched.