Newbie 1769: Happy New Year! (Post-Game)
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mattblackguy Goon
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Hm, I don't really see what ThinkBig did that was scummy. All I see is him asking some questions at the start of the game to spark some conversation, and then him making a joke a little later. Just seems like Giga, and Schadd are tunneling on him.
(Also hi everyone! This is my first game so I hope everyone has fun)-
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mattblackguy Goon
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mattblackguy Goon
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mattblackguy Goon
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Do you recommend any games in particular? I've read a little bit of day 1/day 2 from a game, but games are so long that it's hard to really read through a full game.In post 110, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:GAYreen (and any of the newer players here), have you read any games on here? It might be a good idea to see what's considered scummy/townie (if you don't already have a sense) or just get an idea of how a game usually goes.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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So far I read both Rask, and Giga as town. To me it seems like Rask is trying to put some pressure on ThinkBig, and get more analysis from people, which seems like a town thing to do. I can't seem to put into words why I think Giga is town besides the fact that I think all of thier posts seem pro-town.(sorry for vagueness :/)
At first I didn't think anything of ThinkBig asking questions but him claiming at L-2 seemed very odd to me. Like (1) I don't think anyone had intent to lynch him especially when we have 13 days left in the day, still have plenty of discussion left, and 2 people still haven't posted. (2) A vanilla townie claim doesn't really have much weight to it, because wouldn't everyone claim vanilla townie on day 1? It's not like a power role would claim their actual role day 1 because they would know they would die that night, and all mafia would also claim vanilla townie.
I'm not sure what to think about Creature at the moment. It seems he's being vague with all his posts, and can't get a read on him.
Everyone else I'm pretty much null on.
(sorry if my reads/analysis sucks. I'm just typing what comes to mind, and would very much appreciate feedback on how I can improve)-
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mattblackguy Goon
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mattblackguy Goon
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Messed up on the quote.
In post 180, schadd_ wrote:
gayreen: agh, null. his only voting item was on me; newbie!clumsy!scumhunting is townie, voting me is scummy (+some tone je ne sais quoi that i don't like)
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mattblackguy Goon
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Alright, I'm a little confused. Can you explain to me why a PR shouldn't CC day one? Wouldn't it be good to CC someone that you know is scum to get them lynched? Worst case scenario (and maybe I'm not thinking this all the way through) is that the town wouldn't know which one is the real PR and don't lynch either. If town doesn't lynch either doesn't this mean that the mafia couldn't kill the PR at night because they know that their mafia will be lynched the next day?In post 190, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:oh matt i forgot to mention
i definitely think a pr would claim pr, getting lynched as provable town is way worse than nk'd
plus if he's scum and claims pr he can bait the real pr to claim (or get away with a fake-claim). you're kind of close with your logic here actually, a PR only shouldn't CC D1. Always claim your real role at L-1 (and are town) unless you absolutely know what you're doing-
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mattblackguy Goon
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In post 143, ThinkBig wrote:Since I am at L-2 or 1, I'm going to claim. I am aVanilla Townie
When I get home from work, I'll catch up on everything.
So, are you going to expand on what you meant?In post 150, ThinkBig wrote:
I disagree. I think there are times in which one should claim when they are at L2/1 even before someone declares intent. I'll expand on that later.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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mattblackguy Goon
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By the way, my previous post was 100% serious. I really do believe Rakkar, and ThinkBig are the mafia. Rakkar hasn't contributed anything to the game. He hasn't posted any opinions on anything that has gone on in this game so far, and hasn't posted any of his thoughts about the other players (who he thinks is town, who he thinks is scum etc.) I will not remove my vote from Rakkar unless he actually contributes something.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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Well to me it seems like Shade is more likely to flip town than ThinkBig just because of the questions, and points that shade has been bringing up. Shade really does show a drive to scumhunt, and I don't think he would be asking these types of questions if he were scum (Although I do not really know his personality outside of this game) :In post 269, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:but the question for the audience here is why shade over TBIn post 213, Shade wrote:How can we bring down someone's guard to understand their motivations?
Not only this, but Shade has posted his opinions and thoughts on almost every other players actions. I really don't think Shade would be trying so hard to figure out everyone's motives, because if he was scum there really wouldn't be anything for him to figure out (besides who the PR is). Everything he has said just comes off as genuine to me.In post 213, Shade wrote:If there are several behaviors that are already known as scummy, why would any scum do them? Unless if you're saying a newbie might do them when they're scum which contradicts with your action - pointing them out to them.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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mattblackguy Goon
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I don't really follow what you are saying here. Aren't the more active players more likely to be town, because contributing as town as a direct positive correlation to our goal? And aren't the players that are lurking, and not contributing much more likely to be scum, because they don't want to help the town figure out the puzzle? (sorry for my previous post, but I tried to post this 3 times and it wasn't going through!)In post 290, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:post or perish (i say voting for the person out of the most active most likely to flip scum )-
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mattblackguy Goon
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Yeaaah. I'm reconsidering what I previously thought about Rakkar. Going back it seems like Rakkar is just a kid, and this game didn't turn out like he thought it would so he just disappeared. I don't think that's really indicative of whether he was scum or not. Since Rakkar is most likely getting replaced later today I'll just drop my vote on him now, and see what the new person says.In post 230, rakkar wrote:I'm keen to play but it feels pretty overwhelming to to see ten pages to read in less than 48 hours.
UNVOTE: Rakkar
Also I see that ThinkBig is on V/LA until January 15th so doesn't seem like we're going to get a response from him anytime soon. We probably should just move on for the time being.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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Hmm. I could see Gayreen, and ThinkBig as a possible scum team. Gayreen did initially attack Schadd (ThinkBig's first voter) for what seemed like BS reasoning (Lynched and left?). He also hasn't posted his reads on anyone, even though he asked a question if it was ok to post town reads. Lastly it does seem to me that Gayreen is just following whatever you(Giga) say in an attempt to gain a town read from you.In post 368, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:@Matt, if Rakkar's replacement reads as obvious town, who do you think would be the best lynch? Shade is the only person i can marginally think flips scum if not TB/Rakkar but then TB/Shade doesn't make much sense to me.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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Eh disregard this. Looking back at the posts there isn't much to support this. Although I still want to know what Gayreen's reads on everyone are though.In post 369, mattblackguy wrote:Lastly it does seem to me that Gayreen is just following whatever you(Giga) say in an attempt to gain a town read from you.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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mattblackguy Goon
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Giga is scum. They lied about going to sleep! /sIn post 376, gigabyteTroubadour wrote: sleeping for real now :dea:-
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mattblackguy Goon
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What about my second readlist doesn't follow on from my first read list? In my first read list I was basically saying I think rask, and giga are town, and thinkbig was mafia. Null pretty much on everyone else. Second read list which was a couple days after I was saying basically the same thing. Only difference being I switched from null to mafia on Rakkar because he send he was going to make an effort to contribute but never did.In post 432, cassielle wrote:mbg's read lists are ugly. let me look for his second readlist, its a MESS. it also DOES NOT follow from his first list in the least.
Also on the rakkar read, I did later say that I think I was wrong about Rakkar not contributing being AI. It did seem like he was just a kid, and was overwhelmed.
I still don't see how my reads are anti-town. I just posted what I was feeling at that point of the game.In post 473, cassielle wrote:mbg's hard to read-ish but he's lurky and his reads are at least passably anti-town
What anarchist vibes? lol I really have no idea what you mean by this. If anything I was sheeping more than I should have by putting too much trust into Giga. You also say that I was nullreading people that were obviously town. I'm assuming you are refering to Gayreen, and Creature here. I still don't see how early in the game Creature was an obvious town read. He was just fluffing at that point of time.In post 400, cassielle wrote:my mbg read has dropped to nullscum on a doublecheck and rethink of reasoning. the anarchist vibes are likely a personality trait shinign through in general (see avatar), and his reads list is heavily floated toward the middle with few actually dead center purenull -- and those who are at the middle are the strongest of townreads imo. hes prob not on the scum team but hes not exactly playing pro-town. also not getting purenoob vibes, so theres something to be said for that.
About me being anti-town. This is why at the end of my first read list I asked for some advice to help me improve because I know in my first game I'm going to do some stupid stuff.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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Creature :
Spoiler:
ThinkBig :
Spoiler:
Gayreenhamster :
Spoiler:
Cassielle :
Spoiler:
Rask :
Spoiler:
Schadd :
Spoiler:
Ok this post was kinda tiring. I'll do Giga, and shade later. Still need more from shade to form a better opinion on him, but I will say that I read Giga as town for now. I'll explain on this later, but for now I'll just list player list in order from towniest to scummiest :
[Towniest]
Creature (top town partially because everyone reads him as town)
Gigabyte
Cassielle
Schadd
Shade
Gayreen
ThinkBig
Rask
[scummiest]-
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mattblackguy
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mattblackguy Goon
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Not the popular consensus anymore. Ever since Cass has come in the town seems a little more split. Before we were basically circle jerking, reading each other as town, and reading the lurkers as scum. I'm glad we moved away from that, and think we're in a better state now.In post 534, -Grey- wrote:Why are your reads the popular consensus?-
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mattblackguy Goon
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It was more so since I thought rakkar, and thinkbig was scum that everyone else had to be town (because of the rolelist). My thinking was pretty naive and noobess now looking back at it in hindsight. Honestly this is my first game, and I'm still trying to figure things out.In post 535, -Grey- wrote:That's nice and all, but what has everyone else besides TB done to convince you they're town?-
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mattblackguy Goon
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In post 539, -Grey- wrote:That's a deflection, not an answer. When you posted those reads, they were the popular consensus.
Why?In post 536, mattblackguy wrote:Before we were basically circle jerking, reading each other as town, and reading the lurkers as scum-
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mattblackguy Goon
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Many of his posts are pointless one-liners that have added nothing to the game, which is why I think just looking at total post counts is misleading. Also when gayreen was asked to explain, or take sides he wouldn't do it, but would still post those one-liners.In post 540, cassielle wrote:i follow the reasoning on gayreen even if i dont agree with it -- there a paranoia that stems from the inactivity, and i admit that is something i might have considered more, but to be fair, you have even fewer posts over all, what makes you more town here?-
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mattblackguy Goon
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And this was also a big reason why I dropped my vote. Seems like you're only reading half of my posts, and then taking them out of context.In post 367, mattblackguy wrote:Yeaaah. I'm reconsidering what I previously thought about Rakkar. Going back it seems like Rakkar is just a kid, and this game didn't turn out like he thought it would so he just disappeared.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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Yeah I did admit earlier that I sheeped Giga a little too much, but when I did sheep him it was because I agreed with what he was saying, not because I wanted him to townread me.In post 548, -Grey- wrote:Hypocrite, thy name is matt.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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I don't put too much weight into activity because it can be easily fabricated (See Rask). I guess I would say my scumreads come mostly from the type of content I see people post, and tone. If I feel someone is putting their reads out there, and is genuine with what they say (meaning they 100% believe what they are saying) then I'm more likely to town read them. It's the main reason I have a townread on schadd.In post 540, cassielle wrote:shade feels more scummy than gayreen or even tb imo. can i get the reasoning for him being above them? i guess another way to word this is -- what do you weight more when looking for scumreads? activity, content, tone, or gut? theres good reasons to reconsider shades placement based on some of those.
And again I try not to post if my post isn't going to advance the game at all. I don't like fluff too much, and try to avoid it when possible, which is why my post count is so much lower than many others.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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Kinda confused. In my most recent reads list, I never said that I think shade is town, or even town-lean. Yes schadd, and shade are right next to each other on my reads list, but I read schadd as town, while I read shade more as null-scum.In post 557, cassielle wrote:imo tb and gayreen pinging your scumdar for inactivity isnt very consistent here, even considering timing, shades also dropped off after an initial okay-ish showing
[Towniest]
Creature (top town partially because everyone reads him as town) - town
Gigabyte - town
Cassielle - town
Schadd - town
Shade - null scum
Gayreen - null scum
ThinkBig - med scum
Rask - top scum
[scummiest]
So yeah I view Shade similar to how I view Gayreen although it looked like Shade has put more effort into his posts than Gayreen did.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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Alright well then I think I need to read over his posts again. I just didn't get that impression when I read over his posts the first time.In post 557, cassielle wrote:main thing with shade is, his posts arent just sparse, theyre also real fake and forced (creature noticed too) and low on content. a lot of pushback at being questioned but its gt a joking tone without the outrage i expect from town.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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mattblackguy Goon
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We have 8 days left in the day, and I don't want to end it yet. With Rask at L-1 someone can just come and quickhammer him which I want to avoid for now.In post 586, -Grey- wrote:Did you see how fast mbg unvoted when I put Rask to L-1?-
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mattblackguy Goon
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This is fair. I guess I just saw L-1, and overreacted because L-1 just seems scary.In post 593, cassielle wrote:@matt quickhammer would be a scum indicator from where im standing and id make it a policy lynch to wreck them on d2 for it.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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I was never sold on Rask being town, but I kinda sheeped you, and gave him more leniency in the beginning of the game because you were townreading him. (I realise this was a bad play now). When cass pointed out that Rask is posting a lot without much substance behind his posts + the fact it didn't seem like Rask wasn't trying to hard to scumhunt put Rask as top scum to me.In post 579, gigabyteTroubadour wrote:@Matt, when did Rask become your top scumread??-
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mattblackguy Goon
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@Shade if you think Rask, and ThinkBig are town then who are you scumreading?
@cassielle
o_o I never trusted gayreen/greyIn post 526, mattblackguy wrote:Also hasn't taken many stances on issues yet most people are townreading him hard.(at least Giga, Creature, and Cass are) I still don't understand it.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=66768
Alright I think I found something pretty interesting. Post #14 Rask says :
Before Rask claimed tracker in this game he asked if there was anything to change Cass' mind or if she was just going to lynch him anyway. Cass responded saying she doesn't think Rask is capable on convincing her that he's not scum. And then immediately afterwards Rask claims tracker. This lines up 100% perfectly with Rask's scum play in previous games.Although the thing about roleblocker and claiming isn't going to apply here since we're goon/goon.
I think in this case if you're l-1 late in the day and you think you'll get lynched anyways you should claim tracker so I know who to target
but if you think you can survive and that people can swing to another lynch claiming VT gives you a chance at people reconsidering
So basically I don't believe Rask's tracker claim at all.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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mattblackguy Goon
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In post 608, Raskolnikov wrote:
Are you 100% saying you're not going to reconsider trying to lynch me today?In post 606, cassielle wrote:im feeling the same way about the defense dismissal. i also agree with mbg that 8 days is good time to keep up the scumhunting. rask is just like, digging this giant hole atm, not accepting pro-town advice early and its hurting him now on top of everything else. i think that wagon isnt at risk of losing momentum when the time comes and we can focus on finding scumbuddies. ill let you guys direct that tho because i dont mind giving rask more airtime to bury himself atmIn post 610, cassielle wrote:1: claim could have been thinking he was at l-1 and not being around. ive read my share of noob games here and that is nooot uncommon -- someones not home, theyre at l-1 without intent, they claim and beg people not to hammer before they get home.
2: you never said a word about the underreaction, you let him lurk and moved to rakkar as your prime suspect lol
3: im saying that i dont think youre capable of convincing me you arent scum. if you want to try, you got all the rest of d1 to do so. i recommend working on an ironclad defense and making a masterpost on it instead of the fluffspam-
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mattblackguy Goon
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I do think Grey could be scum, but only really if Rask flips town. He seems like he was pushing too much on Rask for them to be a team. Pushed pretty hard on Rask in #570, #568, and has Rask has top scumread in #558. Why do you think he would push Rask so much if he was scum with him? I guess it's possible that he thought Rask was a goner and just jumped on the wagon, but still in the case lynching his mafia partner on day 1 makes the game extremely hard for him to win. I think if he really was in a team with Rask he would try to save Rask not push him farther down. That's how I'm seeing it anyway.In post 682, cassielle wrote:i want your opinion on -grey- atm-
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mattblackguy Goon
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wtf? why the self vote? Grey broke Cass?In post 767, cassielle wrote:actualyl no you know what, you want to hammer this slot, hammer this slot. jfc with your hypocritical bs.
VOTE: Cassielle
your move. ill be back tomorrow if the day aint done.-
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mattblackguy
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mattblackguy Goon
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mattblackguy Goon
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mattblackguy Goon
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mattblackguy Goon
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mattblackguy Goon
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Yeah you're right. I didn't remember the time that she claimed since I was asleep. Was misrembeeinv it thinking ThinkBig was at L-1 and Rask was at L-2. Btw on me still being suspicious of Rask at the time. I already expressed the fact I didn't want to lynch yet so he knew I wouldn't put him back at L-1.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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mattblackguy Goon
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Was about to ask what your read on him was.In post 815, -Grey- wrote:Who the hell is Shade, btw?-
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mattblackguy Goon
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Whatever happened to ThinkBig explaining his reads earlier? This is becoming a super common thing from him that I'm not even surprised that he didn't post them. Only thing I'm wondering though is ThinkBig stalling or is he just overwhelmed with irl issues. If he's overwhelmed with irl issues then I don't know why he didn't replace out long ago.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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How you played mafia elsewhere, and if yes then where/how much? You have less than 2 months on this site, but seems like you have more experience than that.In post 824, -Grey- wrote:It's typically my approach outside of the newbie queue, so it's sort of turned into habit I guess.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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what about me?
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mattblackguy Goon
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Why does that feel forced? I think it makes sense if schadd flipped scum that I could be his scum buddy, but I don't think schadd is scum.In post 823, cassielle wrote:mbg+schadd_ is possible... feels forced but i dont know why i have that vibe.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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What do you mean? Which person's perspective are you talking about?In post 838, -Grey- wrote:How does this make sense from a town perspective??-
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mattblackguy Goon
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Of course I know I'm town, but other town don't. What I was saying is I felt stronger about schadd being town than others, so I would understand why if schadd did flip scum then others would make the connection, and say I could possible be his scum partner.In post 842, -Grey- wrote:If you're confirmed town to yourself, why would you think it's okay for others to consider you Scum?-
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mattblackguy Goon
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That's not what I was saying at all... Maybe it came out wrong but I explained in my previous post what I meant.In post 841, cassielle wrote:your post man, you jus about said "im scum and schadd_'s my scum buddy" there except im not sure if its possible for you to make that bad of a scumslip seriously-
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mattblackguy Goon
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mattblackguy Goon
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Not sure 100% what you mean. Do you mean why do I care if others think I'm scum or something else? I care, because I want to understand their reasoning, and I can put myself in their shoes it'll help me understand their train of thought.In post 855, cassielle wrote:
but back to this.In post 848, mattblackguy wrote:I was trying to look at the game from the perspective of others, and how others view me.
like i said, thats not a town way of thinking. why do you care about what others think here? youre town and you know it so i dont see why you wouldnt assume that town would find you, esp when theyre looking for scum. if you share their wincon you should fit right in.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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Got it. Yeah I realise what I said made no sense from a towns perspective now. I'm still not 100% sure how to do scum hunting right though. Like all my reads suck, and everything I thought was AI is actually NAI so I dont know what Im doing anymore.In post 858, -Grey- wrote:If you are doing that, then town will recognize their own. It's not your job to appeal to town, that is scum's job.-
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mattblackguy Goon
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Actually I never knew what I was doing, but for a small amount of time I thought I did but it's clear that I don't.In post 859, mattblackguy wrote:so I dont know what Im doing anymore.
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