Newbie 1494 -- Game Over

[Moonlight]

Start a "Moonlight is a jerk" fan club then, I'll join it. It took me seconds to hit the ISO link on Squirrel, Ctrl+F "Kenobi" and find that. I don't appreciate that you didn't do that before jumping to the conclusion that I'm misrepping someone.

Having one scum left should not be used as an excuse for lacking a solid read on someone and avoiding to work on it, especially when your scumread looks unlikely to be lynched.

It's possible I'm being biased by expecting more than I should out of Squirrel because I was impressed by her scum game, but I don't think that's what's happening. Nacho is good at spotting such behavior, which is why I'm asking for his input.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm here!

[Nachomamma8]

Re: Kenobi:

This may seem like a strange point (it is), but I don't think two new scum would be comfortable enough in thread interaction to open up with the POTATOES thing right out of the bat: normally, ignoring + light distancing is a bit more of a preferred method of scumbuddy interaction between new players because it normally feels less obvious when there isn't that giant neon sign pointing to you both as partners.

His tone when he seems to have found something seems fairly genuine: part of it is the stream of consciousness posting, but a lot of it is how aggressively he goes after things that bother him in the moment (moonlight misattributing quotes) and how he tends to cool his heels on it later in the game. I thought his Moonlight gambit was interesting: scum motivation behind it would be to push the Moonlight lynch for a moment and then back off later if he looked too town, but that seems unlikely because he never gave the chance for any person who might hammer the chance to post. His expecting scum to quickhammer the lynch in 9 hours is a bit naive, maybe, but it doesn't seem like the type of flaw in logic that happens because of scum necessity.

I also think that the reason he finally ended up voting (because I'm curious to see how he flips) is additionally fairly town. It doesn't put him in a position to defend his partner (nowhere does he call him town or townish), it doesn't put him in a position to get cred after the flip (aka not really, no one can say he was bussing too hard).

I can't really find anything I dislike in this ISO.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho - also, which of the TWO players do you think is making the honest misconception? One, or both?

Whatever, let's speed lynch some people and call people who point out truth to suck - what excellent lessons we learn.

Why did you think two misconceptions meant one wasn't honest? Why don't you hold that viewpoint now?

That said, if I had to guess, pushing any wagon loudly is a way of deflecting attention off your own wagon. He may not have meant 'deflect attention' as 'be hidden and silent' but rather 'redirect attention from people calling you scummy to people calling me/others scummy' which is something you did and it's quite reasonable to hold that stance. I feel like you're implying a lot of analysis while not actually trying to analyze a lot. You seem to reach the solution that makes him look worst every time, even though you talk about how you're not trying to do that and mention that you see the 'town side' of what he's doing - but you never discuss that. Why?

I think this is you going to bat a bit too much for HS. I understand that Moonlight is your top suspect and your top suspect is attacking and all, but why did you feel the need to so thoroughly interrupt Moonlight's attack, for... stupid reasons? I mean sure, maybe HSS's posting is fine if you interpret it in a very specific way, but it's not like Moonlight's interpretation was horribly misrepresenting HSS in any way. Your accusation here of Moonlight "implying a lot of analysis while not actually trying to analyze a lot" is pretty much completely and totally bullshit. You state later than Moonlight (and yourself, of course) are the only people getting anything done, and it's not like Moonlight wasn't already producing a ton of things at that stage: or did you think just because Moonlight used the phrase "I want to see the town side of you but just can't" (or something similar) that made him obliged to show how he was seeing the town side of things or else he would be scum because of it? I don't believe that.

So, when you called my attack as sucking, you really meant "please explain your reasoning, SG" and then, when I reacted negatively to you saying I sucked...well, that's just FURTHER PROOF that I am scummy! This is scummy and terrible logic.

I didn't mean "please explain your reasoning": I understood as much at the time. I meant "your reasoning sucked", and I never called you scummy because you were dramatic. I just called you dramatic.

My reasoning is the reasoning from yesterday

I think... this is lazy as hell, considering you went through a suspicion of Moonlight/Nacho (a very strong suspicion that allowed you to set aside your suspicion of Rach) in the mean time. It would make sense you would revisit the pair, ask yourself why Rach would do nothing except bus her partner, you know, things like that.

[Moonlight]

I agree that Kenobi and HSS don't seem very likely as a pair, the only connection being his short-lived push on me on D1 that you've commented on. I didn't really like his D2 posts in the sense that he didn't go after anyone in particular, but his last post shows his thoughts.

Good to know that I'm not the only one who sees laziness in Squirrel's D2 play. Can we just hammer her and win this before I start wondering if BC's 502 was masterfully fabricated in expectation of that gambit from me?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm not as blown away by that reaction as everyone else is, admittedly.

[Moonlight]

Do you think it was him taking a shot in the dark for the only thing that would save him? He seemed certain I was full of it.

[Nachomamma8]

I mean, maybe.
I'm not really sure how BC would react to your gambit as scum. Self-voting and giving up may not be his style.

[Nachomamma8]

I do think the chances of him being town are much greater than that small chance of him being scum.

[Moonlight]

Hmm. My thoughts on that is that as scum, 543 makes a lot of sense, since it would let him know whether he should shoot me if we mislynch today. Right now, the last scum has to worry about a 50% chance of me getting protected in the night.

[Moonlight]

That said, that's the kind of thing I would have expected to be pointed out by town-Squirrel on the verge of getting mislynched and the fact that she's not exploring other options than Rach tells me she's giving up as the last scum.

[BipolarChemist]

TBH as scum or town I would never give up. Till the bitter end, I say!

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 2.04

(unchanged)

L-1 Squirrel Girl - 3 - Moonlight, RachMarie, BipolarChemist
RachMarie - 1 - Squirrel Girl

Not Voting: Kenobi, conman41895, Nachomamma8

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-05-10 13:27:50)

[Squirrel Girl]

The fallacy is that the same play reads different to you depending on how others flip. There's 1 scum left and you're scumreading Rach. But if you're wrong and she flips Town, you'd be moving on to someone you are currently townreading. Does that not bother you? And if it does, why wait, there's plenty of time to get more out of Kenobi that will take care of the mild read one way or another.

That's not a fallacy - that's a relational tell. By definition relational tells are affected by the alignment of the people doing the tell, not so much the people they affect.

Like, take your 'didn't mention SG' point for HSS - if he had flipped town would that be a tell? Clearly not. But when he flips scum it's a tell. Same difference.

@Nacho - also, which of the TWO players do you think is making the honest misconception? One, or both?

Whatever, let's speed lynch some people and call people who point out truth to suck - what excellent lessons we learn.

Why did you think two misconceptions meant one wasn't honest? Why don't you hold that viewpoint now?

You seem to be misunderstanding me. You called it an "honest misconception" and I was asking if one or both people were committing said misconception in your mind. At no point did I claim only one was. Now, I personally drew the conclusion that it wasn't an honest misconception. But, your question literally makes no sense with what I said. I know you are lazy lynching me today, but this is annoying!

I think this is you going to bat a bit too much for HS. I understand that Moonlight is your top suspect and your top suspect is attacking and all, but why did you feel the need to so thoroughly interrupt Moonlight's attack, for... stupid reasons?

BECAUSE I DIDN'T THINK THEY WERE STUPID!

I didn't mean "please explain your reasoning": I understood as much at the time. I meant "your reasoning sucked",

And then you called me scum for reacting negatively to that. What a shocking and weird thing for me to do.

I think... this is lazy as hell, considering you went through a suspicion of Moonlight/Nacho (a very strong suspicion that allowed you to set aside your suspicion of Rach) in the mean time. It would make sense you would revisit the pair, ask yourself why Rach would do nothing except bus her partner, you know, things like that.

Revisit the pair of Moonlight and Rach? I don't think Rach did nothing but bus her partner. i think she did nothing and then bussed her partner - that was my issue with her yesterday. Well, not the bus part, but the rest, and it didn't look like a 'not bus' to me.

[conman41895]

Can I hammer now? No matter what the result s the SG lynch will tell us enough information to warrant the lynch.

[Moonlight]

I say fire away if you want to, she has claimed and we seem to be going in circles.

I really tried to see how her play makes sense from a Town point of view, but I just can't see it fitting. I believe the lynch will end the game, but just in case I'm wrong and I happen to die in the night, I want to say 2 things:

1) You'll have a clear Nacho to work with.

Do that

.
2) Do not, under any circumstances, let an "I don't care what happens in this game, no one listens to me anyway" attitude build up. Don't be afraid to make pushes, don't lose spirit, yadda yadda yadda <insert more cliches here>. You get what I mean.

[RachMarie]

I would hammer, Conman. I think she is the scum budz

[Kenobi]

I'm sold on the SG lynch. I'll post more later, but if conman doesn't hammer by the time I'm home tonight, I will.

[conman41895]

Also just wanna emphasize, if we have a doctor, and this lynch doesn't end the game, be sure to save Moon tonight.

VOTE: Squirrel Girl

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 2.05

Squirrel Girl - 4 - Moonlight, RachMarie, BipolarChemist, conman41895

RachMarie - 1 - Squirrel Girl

Not Voting: Kenobi, Nachomamma8

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-05-10 13:27:50)

[Nobody Special]

Squirrel Girl, Mafia Goon,

has been lynched.

CONGRATULATIONS, TOWN !!

YOU HAVE WON THE GAME !

THE VILLAGE IS SAFE ONCE MORE

.....until next time

Night One Actions:

Mafia (Squirrel Girl) kills: Tony PF
Town Doctor (Kenobi) protects: Moonlight
Town Tracker (Moonlight) tracks: Nachomamma8 RESULT: No target


MafQT --> http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/S78SugxmscEu

Dead thread --> http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/AQTWsJqg9pnrZ

[Kenobi]

WEEEEEEEEEEEE! WE WON!

[Kenobi]

D

on't you guys think it's at least a little bit odd that they chose to shoot Tony over Moon? As the most influential player in the game, I'd have thought that Moon was the better target, as he's a bigger threat to the mafia.

O

ther than that, an interesting day 1. It really helped to solidified my read(s) on a few players, and almost makes me feel sorry for the other scum player, having to try and work with HSS >.>

C

ome to think of it, now that there's only one scum, they'd HAVE to be the one submitting the kill, wouldn't they? That should make Moonlight's task a little easier.

T

o be honest, I really liked the whole ruse/fight. Well played Moon. Well played. I'm quite certain you're town now (I mean, even moreso than I was before >.>). I also think SG is town, because of her interactions throughout that entire charade. That being said, I don't think that a gambit like that will work again, Moon

O

f course, that still leaves a scum, and out of the remaining players, there's Conman, who I'm getting a faint townread from, Moon's claim has basically proven Nacho's innocence as far as I'm concerned, and Bipolar, whose recent play especially feels pretty town.

R

ach, on the other hand... I'm not sure where I stand with her. On one side, she did hammer, and unless she was deliberately bussing HSS, that's a fairly townie thing to do. Then again, it could have been a bus to boost towncred. I dunno.

Not sure if I hinted this strongly enough, and I protected moon last night anyway. I was intending to protect him again tonight, and then point to this post the following day if pressed.

[conman41895]

Yay! Congrats everyone! That gambit from Moon saved the day! Great job bro!

[Moonlight]

Ah, nice crumb, didn't spot it! It crossed my mind that you were the other PR (but I couldn't tell which) when you commented on the probability of which one is in the game.

Kudos to Squirrel for not giving up. This couldn't have been easy and there were times I was sooo close to waffling on my scumread on you. I hope you hold no grudges, I enjoyed playing with you and I'm sorry if you actually meant your remarks. =X

A big thanks to Nacho for making me have another look at Squirrel on D1. I was so sold that she was Town that had been tunneling me when you questioned my read.

conman, if you always play like this as Town, I don't see you being lynched... ever. You were amazingly obvious and that helped so much to work with a PoE approach!

Same to Kenobi. Even though I doubted my read on you for a while, much of your D1 play was also hard to look at from a scum perspective. Thanks for the protection too!

BC, I couldn't get a solid read on you for some reason and even considered tracking you. I changed my mind and tracked Nacho instead because he is hard to read for everyone and I'm glad the gambit worked and you posted that fast. In hindsight, I should have paid more attention to how your read on me progressed on D1, it felt natural but I still couldn't get out of my head that you might have wanted to bus HSS there. =X Sorry!

Tony... you're scarily good at reading me. o_o The way you just sheeped me from D1 made me ask myself "Am I really this obvious to him?". Sorry I got you killed, when you said "I'm just a n00b" I thought the zeros wanted me to pay attention to the double "o"... as in, bulletpr

oo

f. xD

HSS, don't let the defeat discourage you. Some of your play came from inexperience and wasn't alignment indicative on its own. What made me focus on you was the change of your read on Tony. It was too fast, it's uncommon for reads to really change like that (take a look at BC and how his scumread on me faded in a very progressive way as an example). Look on the bright side, use this game to work on your play and keep having fun!

Thanks to NS for modding this, I'm sorry for messing up the quotes back there. I enjoyed this game a lot. :3