Newbie 1656 : Game Over

[Ether]

It's not just here. It's not just now. My play was full of dumb mistakes, but it was real. Whatever I might have done as scum around the goodmorning lynch, I assure you that "set things up for six days so that I look like I thought goodmorning was maybe a power role but neglect to actually defend her beyond voting lordj" would have been the last thing that would ever, ever occur to me. Or anyone, frankly, because that's just stupid.

The fact that, as scum, I'd be putting everything on the line by trying to get you to pressure him to give me links that I'd know would just screw me over isn't a distraction. The fact that I meta'd you and he just used it as a prop isn't a distraction. The range of emotions I had across the whole game, not just under pressure, isn't a distraction.

I can bring these things up, because they're what I felt. That's why they're so easy to evoke.

[Ether]

What you'd do to brush me off and what you'd do when SilverWolf threatened to lynch you over it are different things, and as scum I'd have no way of knowing what it would be.

[OceanWind]

Ether claims that thinking GoodMorning was a power role is a reason she's town. But it's not unlikely for scum to pretend like they think their partner is a power role. Ether herself claims that she wondered about lordj and LoHa doing that here:

I am still absolutely fine with LoHa's death! But I feel like my reads are still improving, so I'm not really in a hurry to end things.

Despite what I said about lordj, if LoHa flips scum I could see him as a partner. Going through his posts, there are a lot of places where he seems to have more concern for his wellbeing than I'd expect, and his vote on me is kiiiiiiind of chainsawish in that light. (And I could kind of see his "you look like a power role" comment as being an attempt to scare people off of LoHa, in his brain?

Maybe? I have no idea, honestly I say this but that was one of the things I saw as probably town.) I'm not remotely interested in pursuing this before we have LoHa's alignment, but I'm throwing it out there.

I think OceanWind's failure to get into quicker more interactive discussions with other players is a bad side-effect of that "make a huge post once a day" approach. That's another reason I wish he'd switch to smaller more frequent posts, yeah.

Town usually go looking for

scum.

Sometimes they get that wrong; sometimes when they lock onto someone they proceed to lock on to absolutely everything about them. I'm from the days of full PBPAs, and yes, I think it's confirmation bias. I think this is OMGUS on your part, not in the scummy sense but in the sense that people are subconsciously more inclined to view attacks on them as scummier than attacks on others.

Mightymandarin has slipped into prod range.

So, in Ether's mind, this is a valid scum strategy. I think Ether would be capable of doing what she accused them of doing, only more subtly? In that scenario, she'd have told GoodMorning to claim a power role and then starts acting as if she thought GoodMorning was a power role, so when the claim comes, it's given more credibility and Ether would say something similar to what lordj said in that she thought it was a soft-claim.

Except GoodMorning never claimed and the scenario didn't pan out. But I think that was the intended scenario. Saying that it's the last thing that would occur to her is dishonest. If it were, she wouldn't go around accusing people of such a strategy.

[SilverWolf]

I re-looked over the GM lynch and I really want to know what she was thinking. I think with any of us as a partner, we would of told her to fakeclaim a PR. With the BP out, I would of suggested jailkeeper most likely. It would of looked bad that she was so sure the BP wasn't possible as JK which is one reason that might have been discarded. Why did she give up? If I thought it was some gambit to be bused, I'd say OceanWind in her partner but OceanWind started voting for her when only Sakura was at the time and GM was not in much danger then. If Ether was her partner and the plan was to pretend she thought GM was a PR, then GM should of claimed a PR.

Sakura's words about the only time she's seen someone not believe an uncc'd PR claim was from scum, rings true from what I recall as well. But Moosy didn't believe it either which I still don't get since she was the JK but w/e. I do know a town mindset would of been like I thought of it and Sakura thought of it. Wait to see if there's a cc and if he's scum, it would become apparent later most likely. To try to kill him immediately after his claim, when it would hurt town a lot if he was telling the truth, is more likely to come from scum or possibly a newbie like Moosy I guess.

[SilverWolf]

SilverWolf, I'll say this about my playstyle though - I'm not a very emotional player regardless of my alignment and tend to be fairly stoic in general. While playing mafia, I prefer a logic-based game as either alignment. I've seen players have genuine emotions as both alignments and with scum, it's most often not things that they are faking but things that they genuinely feel. Have you never been annoyed at a push on you as scum and been driven to attack and fight it off?

Yes, You are talking to a person who can be emotional as both alignments and I have gotten frustrated/upset/angry as both town and scum usually when wagoned. And yeah, it's always genuine from me. I have a friend that always says, wagon SW to see if she's town. Well, wagon me when I'm scum and I'll still get pissed and fight back. I AtE as both alignments. Emotions are the worst way to try to read me. It's not alignment indicative at all for me.

I believe both town and scum can AtE and I don't consider that as much of a scumtell as others do. Determining the difference between scum AtE and town AtE is the key and I'm having a hard time telling the difference with Ether here.

[SilverWolf]

OK, I think we've said all we have to say and it just comes down to me casting a vote. This isn't easy. I had my vote all set and wasn't able to post it over and over again. I think it's just my indecisive and second guessing myself nature and the fact that it would suck to lose after lynching scum D1. But the fact of the matter is, I can't see much of any reason to vote for OceanWind. Yes, I guess he could of bussed but the way he went after goodmoring so early before she was under any danger undercuts all that. Plus a lot of his play is protown in regards to pushing the GM lynch through when it could of easily gone to lordj, plus the way he unvoted me and called me his strongest townread, he didn't go after me in lylo for the hammer, he helped me look more town with the GM lynch, he called myself and Sakura obvtown for our behavior around the GM lynch and correctly said that my behavior around GM D1 is not scum-scum. So this offsets the only thing I can fault him for which is possible bussing but again, I didn't see that in his scum games. Not like this. He's not matching his scum meta in that regard.

Ether has been very genuine and shown emotion that looks very real plus I do believe she took the time to go through my meta. She's active and engaged in the game far more than her scum meta shows. Her lylo play has shown a lot of passion as well and I have no doubt she's trying her damnet to win and is getting frustrated. Where I falter with her is the fact that she pushed an uncc'd PR as scum which doesn't make sense coming from town along with the other scum in the game, she started a lordj cw, and tried to divert the lynch off GM, she also started going after Sakura right around the time GM was under fire by Sakura and myself. And Sakura made several great points against Ether earlier in the game as well that I highlighted in my catch up.

So for this reason my intent now is to vote for Ether. I have thought about it, re-read the game, given it some time, let both Ether and OW speak, said all I need to say, and I don't see the point of drawing this out any further. It's stressful for me and most likely for Ether and OW as well.

If I'm right, then Ether played one hell of a scumgame regardless. She broke her old scum meta, looked really town, and came super close to winning with her partner dead D1. If I'm wrong, then I'm sorry to Ether especially but also the rest of town and OceanWind played an unbelievable scumgame then and deserves the win.

But this is the best I can do with what I have and the decision I have to go with. It would stink to lose but whoever is scum here played a hell of a game. It would be wonderful to win but even then, whoever is scum played one hell of a game.

Anyway, I'm rambling because I don't want to vote. Someone has to help me press that vote button.

[OceanWind]

I mean, you've been on the right track most of this LYLO but I won't deny that Ether put up a good performance.

Code: Select all

[vote]Ether[/vote]

There you go.

[SilverWolf]

Thanks LOL.

OK, OK, enough putting this off. It's really time.

VOTE: Ether

[Ether]

Sorry...

[Malakittens]

Official Vote Count

Ether

(2): OceanWind, SilverWolf

OceanWind

(1): Ether

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2015-11-28 21:45:00)

[Malakittens]

Ether was lynched. She was a Vanilla Townie.

Silverwolf, Vanilla Townie, was endgamed.

OceanWind, Mafia Roleblocker, has won.

[Malakittens]

Dead PT - it's open.
Scum PT - will open when both GM/OW give permission.

[SilverWolf]

ima be pissed if SW aint the last skum

......................................annoying as hell to read after all this, thanks a lot lordj.

[Sakura Hana]

Scumputer results

OceanWind:

1.86

SilverWolf:

0.91

lordj20

0.57

Ether:

-1.11

^
Hahaha
Scumputer was correct!

[Ether]

Well.

I successfully managed to be the only vanilla to let goodmorning slide, got two newbies to actively dislike me, and my strategy for the last day was basically just to repeat "Hey SilverWolf, I can't be scum because I'M AN IDIOT" again and again with different inflections.

So that happened.

[OceanWind]

This was one of the better performances I've seen from town. Ether, you shouldn't feel bad about yourself. You made this LYLO one of the hardest I've been in. Same with SilverWolf for the intense depth in analysis and going over any and every possibility until they were all exhausted. If I've learned one thing, it is that if I play against you again, I'll never bring either of you to LYLO. I tried really hard to make absolutely certain that I wouldn't give away any relational tells with GoodMorning and there were times that I worried that even that wouldn't be enough. It was a hard fought battle at the end and I found Ether to be a formidable opponent. Very well played to both of you. You did a phenomenal job. I also quite liked playing with every one of you in this game. I hope we meet again.

Thanks for modding Malakittens. I'm fine with releasing the mafia PT.

[OceanWind]

GoodMorning was a great partner as well. I was pleasantly surprised by how little evidence she left that led back to me.

Overall, this LYLO was very exhausting mostly because of how well both townies played.

[goodmorning]

@Ocean: You did a really good job at not linking yourself to me at all. Initially I was kind of annoyed with you for getting me lynched but it worked out super perfectly.

And so did killing the BP who was a BP. And the Sakura kill after MyLo was definitely the best choice. And your LyLo play was very good.

I'm fine with the Scum Topic being released.

@Ether: Don't feel too bad about it. I fooled notsci too and he usually knows me pretty well.

[LoHa]

Well played, Ocean. Haven't read lylo but that looks like a lot of effort.

gg, thanks to mods, I hope NS is ok.

[Ether]

I don't want to turn this into another thread about it, but NS was arrested for things he said to an FBI agent pretending to be a twelve year old.

[LoHa]

oh

[SilverWolf]

Three days and SilverWolf is making LYLO hard. If I had taken Sakura Hana along, I'd have won by now I think.

: (

[Ether]

Oh. My conclusion on the not-noticing-daytalk thing was that it was a mistake you could make even as scum, because you'd replaced into a slot that hadn't even picked up its PM, so for all I knew the scum PT was gathering tumbleweeds anyway. Geeeeeeeenerally scum are more informed than town, but I've been burned by totally honest slips from scum enough times that I don't trust that sort of thing.

Ether doesn't seem like the type to hard-push a lynch on someone without hearing them out and giving them a chance to defend themselves. The fact that she's not waiting for me to catch up and is insisting that I be voted shows that this isn't about me but is about who does and doesn't vote me.

Nah, I'll totally lynch lurkers without feeling guilty about it. They're like the free space on the bingo card for me. If you don't post, you don't towntell, and I have no time for anyone like that.

Maybe. I think.

I used to be a lot more aggressive. Like...I could do logic just fine, I had absolutely no problem being the voice of reason, but underneath it all I just really wanted to kill somebody. Or at least be really scary. I've...kind of stopped waiting for that to come back at this point, I think. Whatever I am now, it's something new and I'm still trying to figure it out.

Anyway, I'll probably angst more later.

[Malakittens]

its open btw

[Ether]

So...

I can't shake this sense that as a newbie game, we failed. That maybe, you know, systematically genociding all the newbies or running them up to claims and letting them get nightkilled was not a great thing to do. Even beyond how badly it backfired.

I realized around the whole six day deadline panic that I was viewing all four of you (and OceanWind at the time, although by this point I have a ton of respect for him) as just a backdrop to learning about this generation of experienced players. I'd decided early on that I didn't care enough to deal with Mightymandarin. There was absolutely nothing to say about his suspicion because it was pulled completely out of thin air, and his reaction to my attacking Sakura after he'd called me/Sakura implied that humoring him on anything at all would just give him confirmation bias. But that didn't change that he needed people to talk to him, and I didn't do it.

And...I can say that. I can consciously recognize that. Honestly, none of the four of you ever clicked with me as individuals, and that still hasn't changed. That epiphany never flipped a switch in my brain.

I don't know. If you have questions or want advice, I can do my best, and the other SEs can too. You can reach me on AIM at CaffieneDeity (spelled wrong) or Skype at unvote, or just drop into SiteChat sometime. (I'll be on the account Telephone Cat there; using it on my main slows my browser down.) If you don't want anything, that's fine too.

Goodmorning, did you have one of those IC rooms?