Team Mafia 2018: Inventions Mafia Day 4

[Katyusha]

VOTE: Cheeky

anything for you suprememe leader uwu

[Katyusha]

also unless he's scum i'm thinking we give the hider to creature since his alignment is extremely easy to confirm and i dont want that going to scum

unfamiliar with most of the table or i habitually misread them otherwise so

pedit: same b

[Katyusha]

super hyped for the normal

To be fair that's not really that clear, you could have been joining smith's normal and I don't know how well Cabd knows you to assume you'd pick ether's over mhsmith's.

I'm having a hard time seeing how any of this relevant to anyone's alignment except maybe besides Reck being town tbh

the swap is obviously not AI though considering that if there were an issue with one of the player's alignments it would have been resolved before their team picked role pms

Yo, I'm town

How is firebringer as scum/town or what are his alignment preferences? Creature is definitely town lololol

Vote: Srceenplay

i mean i had the same thought when i wrote out that post but then i realized the fringe case where his team got all scum LMFAOOOOOOO

i'd at least like him to post before i vibe with that just to be 100% certain

Wait are we voting for the invention atm?

i'm not personally since i think creature's going to be the clear pick since most ppl can lock his alignment D1. i dont see the point in doing so now

[Katyusha]

im just following orders o7

[Katyusha]

I'm not sure this is the optimal use case but I'm still thinking about it

From the five or so minutes I spent thinking about it I can't see a difference in who gets to have it, besides the fact that if scum gets it it's completely useless.

It's not like hider is a difficult PR to use either so it's not really the person who gets it so much as it is their alignment - and creature is the only person here we can collectively agree on his alignment early on

VOTE: Reckonerx

I'm not dealing with this shit. I went out of my way to restrict the games I could join so I wouldn't get typecast as a player who would try to pick scum.

his push is dumb but i think scum being fully aware of the fact your swap is NAI would make them less inclined to ask about it or scumread you for it??

assuming you're town

pedit: Guilty if it's not clear from the above I dont think scum really have any reason to prod at it because most people arent going to follow a push there for that reasoning seriously if they know Raybells is town. it's a town line of questioning it's just really stupid

[Katyusha]

I think that we potentially want to give hider to the third scummiest player to check the second scummiest player and lynch the scummiest.
That way we know who the result is on no matter what without risking someone dying.

this requires collective town agreement on 2 subjective reads vs 1 fairly easily agreed upon read

maybe i'm thinking about it like a cop and thats a bad idea but i dont see the issue in the hider dying? it's either forcing scum to no kill (which is good for town) , forcing them to bus (which is good for town), getting us a clear (which is good for town), or force the scumkill onto someone (which isnt that great but if we pick the right person to clear and scum decide to night kill them that's probably better than the neutral case)

pedit: i guess thinking about it more i'm probably putting too much of a positive towards the no-kill framing scenario especially if we're coming out of a D1 ml - i dont mind discussing this more then

pedit: theyre shitty posts guilty but i'd expect them to come from reck from the impression i have of him here

[Katyusha]

Your group includes 2 people who should know that answer and your group should care enough about my alignment to have already brought it up.

If the question hasn't come up in discord: I refuse to play with Cabd.
Furthermore I made it clear before the games started which game I was playing in to avoid him joining my game, but he still chose to follow me into my game.
I complained to the mods, they wouldn't do anything, so I swapped out. To this game in particular because Firebringer was already complaining about Mastina being in the game.

Okay, if it just came up five minutes ago then that's something.

HI CAN YOU JUST FUCKING ANSWER THE QUESTION THANKS

he answered the question?

pedit: they had an argument because in a game that p_a modded where raybells was scum - he believes that cabd was told the scumteam

I think that we potentially want to give hider to the third scummiest player to check the second scummiest player and lynch the scummiest.
That way we know who the result is on no matter what without risking someone dying.

this requires collective town agreement on 2 subjective reads vs 1 fairly easily agreed upon read

maybe i'm thinking about it like a cop and thats a bad idea but i dont see the issue in the hider dying? it's either forcing scum to no kill (which is good for town) , forcing them to bus (which is good for town), getting us a clear (which is good for town), or force the scumkill onto someone (which isnt that great but if we pick the right person to clear and scum decide to night kill them that's probably better than the neutral case)

pedit: i guess thinking about it more i'm probably putting too much of a positive towards the no-kill framing scenario especially if we're coming out of a D1 ml - i dont mind discussing this more then

pedit: theyre shitty posts guilty but i'd expect them to come from reck from the impression i have of him here

folks folks calm down

we give hider to chesskid so

1) he doesn't die n1
2) he moves a 90% townread into a 100% townread

neither of these are good reasons

[Katyusha]

Hind, what about Reck's push makes you think he's trying to put RC in a "gotcha" position for the sake of reading him rather than just scumreading him?

neither of these are good reasons

o its on now

[Katyusha]

cause Ive played with him a lot

OK but if this is coming from experience with him then there should be something in his posting indicating as much - I don't think anyone's a mindreader.

If it's just something he frequently does and you've made that assumption, can you show me like a town game where he does that? Would like to compare the general feeling of his push there.

[Katyusha]

Why accuse Hindu of ignoring a player with two fluffposts an hour into the game?

because theyre kinda ech fluffposts

VOTE: Aneninen

cheeky and guilty join us

also hindu i'd appreciate it if u didnt ignore my follow up question kkty <33

pedit: also that

[Katyusha]

Pure RVS.
RadiantCowbells seems to remember me as well, and that's the explanation behind the pigeon he posted.

is this pigeonposting

[Katyusha]

also no Aneninen is before my time

[Katyusha]

Man I want some fucking sausage now

same

pedit: hang on

[Katyusha]

cause Ive played with him a lot

OK but if this is coming from experience with him then there should be something in his posting indicating as much - I don't think anyone's a mindreader.

If it's just something he frequently does and you've made that assumption, can you show me like a town game where he does that? Would like to compare the general feeling of his push there.

I guess it was missed bc lolpagebottom xd

[Katyusha]

Yeah I ignored that because I dont wanna meta someone I last played with 5 years ago and I would rather sleep. Sorry

Fair enough but it's mostly me doing the actual analysis - I'll probably dig when I dont have work to do that im avoiding

WHO SORTS THE SORTER?

:thinkgin:

[Katyusha]

Anenien how do you feel about hindu calling reck's push obvtown?

[Katyusha]

it's normal for him yeah

in what world is a beta a substitute for an s though it's a v

Actually he was harping on the person defending Reckoner, not the person attacking Reckoner
@People who know CK3, how good is his scum game?

all i know is that he busses a lot more than most people would and that his posts so far are mostly nai for him

skirt skirt townreads him at least and i'd trust his read over my own - plus i like his vote so

[Katyusha]

if his content thus far is nai for him then he's probably pretty good at scum

that's what i was getting at yeah

he's good at towntelling at minimum

[Katyusha]

honestly the shitty thing about this table now that im looking at it again is that i feel like im going to be the weak link here

[Katyusha]

Reck's obvtown so far but could maybe pull this in his best days as scum.

also are there any specific points regarding chesskid's meta that you know of? i'm assuming you're discussing this in your discord...?

[Katyusha]

whoops i ignored something

...?

most of the playerlist is better than me as town or any alignment really lmao

im mostly here for my friends - i wanted to give playing mafia another shot but unless this game is particularly fun/not toxic im probably done for a while again

[Katyusha]

meta is trash

cases are scummy

[Katyusha]

I'm not sure whether it was for me or not. As for Hindu, mind the second half of the sentence too. I actually saw this reasoning plenty of times in every sort of combinations. (Town on town, town on scum, scum on town, scum on scum.)

Yes, that was directed towards you. Sorry if that wasn't clear

Of course the second part applies, but his initial take on it is that it's "obvtown" and I want to know how you feel about that since you're voting him. I'm assuming Reck isn't Creature-levels of easy to read and that most people wouldn't lock a read on him on page 4. Plus it makes sense for him to use the second part of the sentence in any sort of interaction (T/T, T/S, S/T, S/S) as a result so I don't really see the point of discussing that part of the reasoning.

pedit: The point of my comment? It just came to my head when I was about to leave the thread and saw the OP again. i have a bad habit of just posting whatever comes to mind which is why i can spam if im not careful

pedit: cheeky u dont know me uwu

[Katyusha]

I don't think that hindu's defense of reck is svs

agree but I think we’re at odds as to who’s more likely scum

My only issue is I don’t think anenien would also be scum with Hindu but I’m less confident about that - one is probably scum at the very least

besides that I’m reading cheeky, guilty, and probably chesskid as town. I have no interest lynching you atp but I’m not going to act like I have a read on you yet

something smart is something of a lesser sr that exists but that’s about it

night y’all it’s 3 am lmfao

[Katyusha]

Not really

Maybe weakly - the best reason I can pull out of my ass is that I can see where you’re coming from in terms of reads

[Katyusha]

hi mastina firebringer sends his undying love and devotion and begs you to abandon your preexisting relationship for him

Not really

Maybe weakly - the best reason I can pull out of my ass is that I can see where you’re coming from in terms of reads

if I was scum you'd be townreading me by now, easy. thank you for locking me as town.

Actually had that thought considering how your townplay felt that one time bUT YOU KNOW THAT PROBABLY,,,,

[Katyusha]

Mastina if your strategy is to elect your strongest townread what do you think of giving it to creature assuming he’s town?

Scum!creature probabilitywise is pretty low so I’m fine assuming he’s town and not electing him until I have an Actual Read^tm

[Katyusha]

I want Mastina’s thoughts

[Katyusha]

Not a good plan since nothing stops scum from getting the role and just lying about the result.

This is my take on it as well

I guess the advantage raybells sees is that it forces a relationship between the two slots but scum already know everyone’s alignment and can work around any scenario as well

[Katyusha]

That’s actually a good point

Will probably get my team’s thoughts but I’m convinced

[Katyusha]

Yikes that reck readlist

uhm

how does having experience with you make hindu town? I can understand not wanting to D1 him but you put him down as a town candidate which implies you have a substantial reason to tr him

Mastina has posted actual things besides her typical opening? No thoughts on those?

your take on me is also pretty awful, i’m not middle of the road right now and I have no idea how you get “scum theatre” from Mastina and me barely interacting? Besides Mastina what interactions are you looking for to lynch me? Like I can’t even process what your intentions are here honestly I feel like you don’t even have a reason to put me in your scumpool


on the bright side tho creature is

town

pedit: creature you think rc is scummy?

[Katyusha]

Ah - thought you agreed that the hider goes to someone scummy

speaking of which

elect: something_smart

Thought about it more and I think involving him in the hider situation is probably the better call than directly lynching him because I can see partners bussing him here

Gtmh he hides behind like Hindu or Reck but I’m still kind of unsure how anenien/Hindu/reck actually tie together

[Katyusha]

SS would you like to make a vote today?

[Katyusha]

4 irl days or in game ones

If Irl then that’s hardly an issue lol

[Katyusha]

Today toDay or today January 22nd?

I didn’t have a specific answer to this question in mind but let’s say today and not toDay

[Katyusha]

I honestly find it really hard to believe no one has done anything not worth voting

There’s a 100% chance at least one scum has posted by now so...

[Katyusha]

ignore my double negative u know what I meant

Honestly though I don’t think that’s a good play philosophy but I’m not here to lecture

Do you at the very least have your sights set on anyone right now?

[Katyusha]

OK, then who are your townreads?

[Katyusha]

I townread RadiantCowbells

[Katyusha]

In that case why not vote Anenien?

If you’re townreading cheeky and chesskid wouldn’t it make sense to bolster pressure on their scumreads?

pedit: or Catyusha

[Katyusha]

Okay but like building wagons usually gets reactions out of other people as well and if you’re townreads are voting there Anienen technically has an increased chance of being scum and you think the wagon is town motivated so??

Do you think guilty or me are scummy

Pedit: lmfao

[Katyusha]

1. Do you think it’d be obvious if a scum!Hindu misread you? Usually in games with close friends where I roll scum I pay extra attention to how I’m reading them because there’s generally some sort of expectation they’d have of my ability to read them

2. What precludes Mastina from just being wrong then?

3. I would think having this many interactions with slots so early in the game shows that I’m scumhunting and trying to sort people? Is there something that seems fake to you about the way I’m going about things?

pedit: @reck

Tbh i’d trust your partners on creature and Hindu lol

Can you ask cheet/keely why he scumreads me? He played with me in spring fever so like he should know this is my town game lol

[Katyusha]

Do your teammates scumread my playstyle too?

Haven’t asked yet

And the math checks out: if there’s a 3/14 chance of someone randomly being scum from your POV then 2 correct townreads pushing on that turns that into a 3/12 chance - those are significantly better odds this early on

Talk to me more about your guilty scumread?

pedit: I don’t roll scum that often so honestly idk but I never have won a game as scum on this site iirc besides suav which doesn’t count

[Katyusha]

fwiw trans thinks cheeky is obvscum but from our last game she obvtowns hard later on if she’s town

[Katyusha]

Trans thought 267 was town but I need more before I’m positive

I’m also still not really seeing how guilty’s question is leading?

pedit: that’s true but you at least know it’s being pushed by town which makes it the better play than a purely random vote

[Katyusha]

Have you played with SS before Creature?

I’m not good at reading people who aren’t pushing anything but if you have insight that be cool

[Katyusha]

1. Do you think it’d be obvious if a scum!Hindu misread you? Usually in games with close friends where I roll scum I pay extra attention to how I’m reading them because there’s generally some sort of expectation they’d have of my ability to read them

2. What precludes Mastina from just being wrong then?

3. I would think having this many interactions with slots so early in the game shows that I’m scumhunting and trying to sort people? Is there something that seems fake to you about the way I’m going about things?

pedit: @reck

Tbh i’d trust your partners on creature and Hindu lol

Can you ask cheet/keely why he scumreads me? He played with me in spring fever so like he should know this is my town game lol

1. Why would scum!Hindu be misreading me? He would know my alignment. I don't think there was an expectation of me to say "Hey, I'm town, why aren't you reading me that way, Hindu?" It was just a really bold play from Hindu as scum but makes total sense for Hindu as town and right now I'd prefer to Occam's Razor and say he's town than say "Hindu's doing this weird uncharacteristically big play as scum".

2. She could be wrong, sure. But what makes it gross is that there was already a burgeoning wagon on me when she placed the vote which makes it opportunistic as hell, especially considering the reasoning is implied to be "I don't like this RVS vote".

3. Nothing seems fake or not fake. You're null. You're middle of the road right now. I don't know why you're getting so defensive. I'm not saying you're the most likely scum here, I'm saying you're not exactly at the top of either list (though my teammates disagree). Keely was reminded of the last time he played with you and said your poking here feels equally forced as it did last time.

My partners can't read Hindu and don't know him at all which is why it's null for them. You seem to be pushing hard on Hindu here, or at least trying to get me to be open to voting him. Is he your top scumread?

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1. Right but your point is that he's avoiding an easy mislynch in your early game by defending you. I'm trying to understand why that's specifically town motivated to you when I don't see it as a bold play, especially if you're familiar with each other. fmpov i dont think calling you obvtown from that interaction makes a lot of sense if he thinks you're capable of that as scum either and i'm trying to see how you and anenien feel about that

2. Point about opportunism is fair but the read from a single rvs vote feels more like a mastina tell than not

3. I'm not defensive, I'm trying to understand why I'm null because I find that particular read strange. I guess Keely hasn't played enough with town me to know this is how i usually sort people - I really do think that I'm out of my scumrange btw but thats mostly because i started picking up on my tells and i kind of have a tough time avoiding them

Do you think my questioning is forced though?

Hindu isnt my top scumread btw, check my vote. I think it's possible he flips scum here though but theres probably only one scum in hindu/you/anen so I want to understand the three of you better

[Katyusha]

theres probably only one scum in hindu/you/anen

This is a bad thing to say early on.

It’s far from set in stone, their interactions just don’t feel svs to me at the present

[Katyusha]

Thoughts on xRECKONERx having 8 scumreads?

I think a lot of them are nullreads tbh?

[Katyusha]

elect: hinduragi

had a change of heart and I’m probably gonna Trust The Doggo on SS

[Katyusha]

Raybells do you think it makes sense to nullread me in this gamestate

pedit:

1. meh, I don’t feel that Hindu did much to really abate scumreads on you but I suppose that’s my position as a neutral observer. Your logic at least makes sense

3. It’s not that I expect you to find me obvtown (even if I think I probably am) it’s just I have a lot of content and not really having a stance one way or another seems off to me - you even mentioned that’s why i’d be easier to read with flips

[Katyusha]

Reck nullreads me it’s the conversation we’ve just been having lol - but even in general

I still don’t get Anen town but I’m sure you’ll explain that when it’s the right time?

Pedit: @raybells

[Katyusha]

EP <3

Raybells, in that case I’ll look into his meta later and just take your word for it until then. Remind me to revisit though

VOTE: Hinduragi

Elect: Reck

Can we do this?

[Katyusha]

Can u not call him ck3 it tilts me every time




CHESSKID

[Katyusha]

What if we elect him

[Katyusha]

GoGuy5

[Katyusha]

On the underlined part SS feels kind of lynchbaity because he’s in the sidelines mostly and it took me a while while questioning him to even know how he feels about the gamestate

If SS is scum I’d have a hard time clearing people for pushing or scumreading him as a result - scum can and will D1 bus weak partners if it comes down to that

pedit: yeah that was??? I was hoping for an explanation though I don’t really know if it’s scummy

[Katyusha]

Katyusha's 281 is weird. I think it was obvious that Something_Smart had asked Reckoner.

The post above SS’s was mine so I assumed

[Katyusha]

Also I’m independently townreading anenien so I’m probably not following up on my meta read

Creature follow me on hindu?

[Katyusha]

how dare u call me a sheep

[Katyusha]

how dare u call me a sheep

I'll call you Daddy if you vote Mastina how about that

That’s even worse???

Consider yourself blocked


In all seriousness I don’t really see the issue with mastina’s scumread of you. like I’m kind of ~unsure~ at this point like whether or not I agree but I absolutely can see where she’s coming from if she’s, say, town and wrong

What’s your take on Hindu/Reck

pedit: wouldn’t seeing your scumgame multiple times and being wrong about it help her calibrate the way she reads you

like with rc I know he’s 100% capable of hard pocketing me so I’m relying a lot on the fact we have similar goals here and skirt skirt locktowned him (rest of the team is townreading him too) - maybe Mastina is doing something similar

Pedit: oof

[Katyusha]

What’s your take on Hindu/Reck

don't remember a single Hindu post, Reck is basically locktown

I take it that’s because of Mastina interactions more than content or is it both

Also from mastina’s first post I think it’s a variance in confidence so even then the approach makes sense

[Katyusha]

Creature follow me on hindu?

I townlean him for now.

Why? His defense of Reck still feels off to me

[Katyusha]

At some point I should probably actually organize my thoughts but I have a class in 2 hours and I still haven’t eaten all day

yay for being sick uwu

[Katyusha]

im doing a hard reset after reading the last few pages

initially i agreed with eddie that rc/goguy5 was tvt but considering he wound up with a scumpool of hindu/reck/anen/mastina (his only reason being that she hasnt done anything he can townread and he expects her to at this stage) and im lacking in scumreads (i'm starting to townread reck and anen and dont really have a read on mastina) it's clear im missing the bigger picture and need to take a step back

[Katyusha]

Kat, I ask you the same question: does chesskid not, ignoring tonal differences but focusing on how he conducts himself, seem like he could be me playing as scum?

Yes but he's also an entirely different person?

like i think byf said he was doing more ego flinging and jerking than you and i completely agree there but i dont think thats alignment indicative

pedit: same creature

[Katyusha]

look at the reck wagon when it was 3

then look at the mastina wagon comp

then vote mastina

the issue with the reck wagon is...?

calling it a bad wagon requires mastina to be scum and i dont have a reason to give her a read either way

when i have my own scumreads i dont just follow wagon compositions - i only do that when i exclusively have townreads for the reasons i suggested ss do the same

Kat, I ask you the same question: does chesskid not, ignoring tonal differences but focusing on how he conducts himself, seem like he could be me playing as scum?

Yes but he's also an entirely different person?

like i think byf said he was doing more ego flinging and jerking than you and i completely agree there but i dont think thats alignment indicative

pedit: same creature

It's not about the ego flinging so much. That's NAI
It's about how he's trying to dictate and get rid of the people who won't be dictated to.

Is Hinduragi someone who would be dictated by him?

[Katyusha]

What’s your take on Hindu/Reck

don't remember a single Hindu post, Reck is basically locktown

Between Slightly and Pretty Town:
Hindu

goguy5 what lead you from not knowing about any of hindu's posts to townreading him btw

[Katyusha]

also raybells do you have any non-gamestate/chesskid associative reasons to townread mastina

Is Hinduragi someone who would be dictated by him?

lol

Yes, you get the point I'm demonstrating ty

pedit: yes, chesskid, you should explain what you read!

[Katyusha]

why do people think it's constructive to just brush off questions that are actually useful in sorting peoples alignments

pedit: yes, chesskid, you should explain what you read!

his posts.

[Katyusha]

taking a second look at mastina's iso the only thing i really take issue with is her implying that creature isnt going to use the hider properly and instead risking raybells getting the hider, who she should know is strong scum and can possibly be misread by her, when she believes that the hider should go to a strong mutual townread

that and her certainty of her read on raybells

i kind of dismissed it earlier but i absolutely see where srceen is coming from

before i move my vote im going to check the votes

[Katyusha]

VOTE: mastina

elect: hindu

[Katyusha]

i still think we should elect a scumread

pedit: mastina can defend herself and if she changes my mind she changes my mind

[Katyusha]

1. Aneninen, Young and Beautiful

3. Hinduragi, DEFCON

4. RadiantCowbells Firebringer, Team Cuddly

5. Something_Smart, Relaxed Nature

6. Primate, God Save The Black Goo

7. Errantparabola, Make Papa Proud

8. Srceenplay, Chillplay Bombahskiies

9. mastina, Queue Agents

10. chesskid3, tldr: the really long name

11. GuiltyLion Serious Business

12. xRECKONERx, Dandy Irate Hoes brought to you by MATI energy

13. BigYoshiFan, Backhanded Remarks

14. Creature, Spam Squad

15. CheekyTeeky, Sauciety

i still feel like i have too many townreads without being confident in my scumreads :/

[Katyusha]

8. Srceenplay, Chillplay Bombahskiies

Talk to me about this one.

feels like his towngames and after rereading mastina's iso i totally see where he's coming from with his rc/mastina read and completely agree

[Katyusha]

Idk I guess from a meta agnostic standpoint I just agree with what he’s posting in general

[Katyusha]

I'm not sure how spicy of a townread this is but I think Hindu is like my strongest tr atm

Pretty spicy if you ask me because sheeping you makes my reads impossible as they are imo

[Katyusha]

I'm not sure how spicy of a townread this is but I think Hindu is like my strongest tr atm

Pretty spicy if you ask me because sheeping you makes my reads impossible as they are imo

Well what's your chesskid read

his fight with you reminds me of you vs lld in that dance game, people who know better than me say he’s town, and he’s voting mastina and like I Get His Reasoning

it’s a very hesitant tr but a bus wouldn’t shock me. See no point in making the call until the wagon goes through

[Katyusha]

Like I’ve accepted most people in this table aren’t going to try to work with me so I kind of have to sort people by reading their posts exclusively rather than interacting so I don’t really have much to go off of on several slots

absolutely an absurd bus though sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo can we step off that

if ur not bussing i’ll find out

Alternatively you could explain your hindu read?

[Katyusha]

Don't convince Katy please. I want to live past N1.

Yes, because stopping town players from sorting the game is totally conducive to a town wincon and your ego is more important! Great post!

[Katyusha]

Do you see why I scumread hindu now raybells

pedit: I’m pretty sure it’s a joke cheeky

[Katyusha]

tbh the vote is even self explanatory in the quote i dont get people's issues with it

[Katyusha]

guys let me focus on my homework :/

raybells you didnt respond to me are you still townreading hindu and if so why and are you going to elaborate

pedit: chesskid thinks her scumread of him is disingenuous and doesnt think her reck vote makes sense in the game's context, reck doesnt like her vote on him, i dont like her pushing of raybells to get the hider over creature if she's opting for a townread to get it even if she thinks creature is a less capable player (while raybells is probably the stronger player yes hider isnt that difficult of a pr to use), i forgot who else is voting there

[Katyusha]

mastina when you're caught up let me know why it's unlikely this is town!reck being pocketed by scum!chesskid fypov

[Katyusha]

UNVOTE:

elect: no one

going to try this again

mastina bringing up reck's reads reminded me of something i missed

[Katyusha]

3. Nothing seems fake or not fake. You're null. You're middle of the road right now. I don't know why you're getting so defensive. I'm not saying you're the most likely scum here, I'm saying you're not exactly at the top of either list (though my teammates disagree). Keely was reminded of the last time he played with you and said your poking here feels equally forced as it did last time.

3. I think expecting people to know you're obvtown because you think you're obvtown is a futile, pointless endeavor that just lets to ego masturbation. I don't care if you think we SHOULD know you're town by now because of your meta. I don't give a fuck about self-meta. I think your questioning is null, personally. Easy to be either alignment.

like this is deliberately trying to keep me as a nullread

his teammates supposedly scumread me, and at this time I literally have the most posts in the thread. me calling it out as a weird ass nullread at the stage of the game is honestly a completely justified criticism - town!reck should actually be trying to sort a slot that his partners are fucking calling scum and has plenty of content. instead he somehow interprets my surprise keely is misreading me as egotistical when the issue is that i have a fuckton of content :/

at this stage of the game if you have a nullread on someone active you should be asking yourself

why

their content looks like it could come from either alignment. reck isnt inquisitive - he's playing reactively and not making any effort to sort the gamestate

VOTE: reck

[Katyusha]

hi chesskid

can you show me where reck has scumhunted? you said you liked his content besides his mastina interactions so surely he must have done something town indicative

thank you

[Katyusha]

im too easily manipulated

[Katyusha]

no just reck

though i think cheeky said something about primate being strong town too

[Katyusha]

Okay then.

So here's that: I want to sort as many players as possible rather than just votepark chesskid/Reck.

I don’t see why both can’t be done simultaneously

I’d actually like to hear Guilty’s opinion on the situation specifically

[Katyusha]

It works better when the lynch is unpredictable.

I mean I guess in a vacuum but forcing people to take stances has a lot of utility and it’s possible people who haven’t weighed in yet see a third option and seeing the argument and understanding the motive in that case provides equally valuable information

Even if the current consensus is Reck/chesskid vs Mastina lynch that doesn’t mean everyone will follow the consensus

Pedit: anenien I absolutely feel the same way about reck’s anger being the only remotely town thing about him. What did you think about the point I made in my vote?

[Katyusha]

I don't know about Reck.

What scumhunting has he done? How has he made any effort to figure out the gamestate besides tunneling Mastina over what basically amounts to omgus (for a push that isn’t even scummy) and personal grudge?

pedit: I don’t give 3 shits about your opinion chesskid especially if you’re going to selectively choose what posts of mine you’re going to respond to

pedit: yeah that’s cool anen

[Katyusha]

We give hider to Reck?

There doesn’t seem to be consensus about whether we give the hider to town or scum

pedit: if it helps you sleep at night

[Katyusha]

raybells was your "gut townread" on hindu fake? regardless im always down for a wagon on him

VOTE: hindu

the responsible thing to do here would be to follow up on my reck pressure because im not entirely satisfied with where that went but the general mood of this game has kind of killed my interest in the game, my team's morale in general is kind of shitty, i'm still sick, and this table has just gotten progressively worse for me to enjoy (raybells is absolutely fine btw contrary to popular opinion) so that will probably come a bit later. it is important though because there's only one scum in reck/hindu here imo and ive had that read since like page 5

team has been avoiding this game because of how miserable it is but fwiw eddie has been following the circlejerk to some extent and thinks mastina is obvious town now that shes been generating content beyond The Great Eight (he has a lot of experience with her as far as I'm aware, hydraing and games alike) and thinks that reck/chess is more likely to net scum but isnt really sure which he'd lynch (probably chess out of the two).

im just going to put chesskid on ignore at this point though i dont know why i even bothered interacting with him or taking any of his posts seriously

this game tho is basically

ive tried writing up more constructive posts responding to the reck/chesskid/raybells/mastina circlejerk earlier today as it happened (you may have even seen me online reading along!) but every time i try i just feel stupid so thats always nice

[Katyusha]

also kind of tangential but i wanted to hear from math about his thoughts on the hider mechanic a bit more in depth!

i liked raybells's argument but i'd like to hear why he disagreed so strongly

pedit: i can back smart up because when i was pestering him about having no reads in thread trans was like "smart's always like that and his reaction's townie" so im just kind of taking his word for it for now

plus i dont see him picking scum from remembering the recent DEFCON mafia

pedit: wow perfect timing

[Katyusha]

raybells was your "gut townread" on hindu fake?

raybells this is a very important question tho

[Katyusha]

eddie pinged me on discord btw to mention that as a toxic player himself that y'all are a bunch of cocks and to calm tf down since this is worse than ether's game

and also that i got the order of his reads wrong from the situation - it's actually rc > mastina > reck > chess (i only really asked about mastina at the time)

pedit: see thats what i thought and i figured thats why you ignored me when i questioned you about that read and im honestly happy with the interactions you got from it because im more solid about that read

[Katyusha]

Don't convince Katy please. I want to live past N1.

I'm not even gonna discuss it but ty Katy

Also you should lynch Chesskid because I am RC and I said so.

Fuck off. I hate this game because of all 4 of you.

Dude I'm sorry but I'm town and I love town. I don't think I've ever had less fun in a game than this one, even if one you guys are scum. I mean, if that's true, congrats to the 1/4. I'm just salty but damn is this game just a drag. I don't want to come home after work and read pure hate being thrown around. Or someone who just goes "hey, listen to me, vote this guy" instead of, you know, actually trying to work things out or come to compromises. I don't give a damn about these arguments after how selfish you guys are being and have continued to be.

Out of the most anti-town things I've ever seen a town do, this takes the cake. This game is nigh on unreadable with how much interjection and opinion you're all trying to force on everyone in this game. Nothing is getting done and, to be honest, there's no reason to keep this up like it has been. Learn to work with others. That's what a town does. Working with others does not mean repeating stuff until they appease you or join you.

honestly smart these four posts as a coherent thought process from 1 person was enough of a scumclaim to me

[Katyusha]

eddie cane

[Katyusha]

eddie cane

* is my favorite person

[Katyusha]

im not going anywhere raybells dw

[Katyusha]

@katyusha did you still want more on Math's hider theory thoughts btw? anything in particular? He's been writing a bunch of stuff in The Discord about how having 2 confirmed townies alive on D2 townsides the setup and there's more risk in giving hider to a problematic slot or openly selecting targets. he did say earlier we could settle on just taking Reck up on the hide behind chesskid plan as a matter of policy if it gets rid of "drama llamas". Overall though his main position is that everyone is scumclaiming by not electing Creature because there's no town incentive not to

i mostly wanted him to i guess explain in depth why raybells's original argument for giving it to a lesser scumread was wrong

i'll quote it for convenience hang on

pedit: mastina

[Katyusha]

I think that we potentially want to give hider to the third scummiest player to check the second scummiest player and lynch the scummiest.
That way we know who the result is on no matter what without risking someone dying.

We can always lynch the second scummiest player if we're concerned they're scum and then confirm the result that way.

But with hider if the hider dies by targeting scum or getting shot we don't know what the actual result was unless it's public, and if it's public we gamble with the hide.

like i agree with the logic in getting a guaranteed result, and if scum find having two conftown to be a difficult obstacle they can always shoot whoever is being cleared (i'm assuming the target will be crumbed or even outright claimed, if this is a bad assumption let me know). im not sure if scum will deliberately try to pick a nightkill target tonight based on who would be a plausible hide target in any scenario so i dont know if not knowing the actual result part is an issue or not

basically i kind of want a more clear counter argument i guess? im shit with mechanics and my teammates arent strong in that regard so someone like mathdino or davesaz is absolutely someone i want to reach out to

[Katyusha]

I tend to read shorter sentences first so i havent actually read the main meat of that post but

I follow like almost every single game on site and have had a generally good impression of math from some of the last games i saw from him (the JK9++ and the newbie with lego and the worst). i think i even commented in the endgame of one of them?

[Katyusha]

ah I think the main thing is this bolded section, he's of the opinion (and I agree) that when the hider is known they should never broadcast their target in any way, the low risk high reward play is to aim for two confirmed townies the next day. if you assume town lynch on D1 there's still a 77% chance of the hider picking town, higher if hider has good reads and they aren't being forced to give them. When you look at a game state where Creature's alive D2 with a clear that narrows scum's mislynch trajectories further, it seems like pretty clearly the best thing to go for instead of trying to land a coinflip guilty where assuming the hider is town then in the best case scenario they're automatically dead as a result and the more likely scenario is you just have two dead townies on D2, even before mentioning the worthless case where scum get the hider and just "clear" whoever they were forced to target.

OK, I think I get where this is coming from.

I think my issue was that I was seeing the hider as basically a weaker cop in that could really be used to investigate anyone, but when you consider it as something used to confirmed town rather than get any sort of read that changes entirely. This helped a lot.

elect: creature

[Katyusha]

Finally, some time.
I'm going along with the ISOs but first I'm asking: since I haven't read the new pates, is there anything new I should respond to immediately?

i dont remember seeing any outstanding questions for you

reck wagon moved onto hindu and will probably move onto chess since i think im the only one that feels more strongly about hindu being scum than chess lmao

pedit: i mean i guess i could have just asked it as a question!

[Katyusha]

Anen I'm going to go back and see where the loose end is in our conversation about Hindu is because Katy-whos-been-up-for-22-hours doesnt quite remember, but on the bit about 1527, it's the hypocrisy in saying that town should be working together to scumhunt and communicate with each other while shutting that down just a few posts beforehand. It's either elitist or scummy, and more than likely it's actually just both. So basically the same thing you noticed but kind of different

the read change in 362 btw was because your last two posts above that I felt were really town. basically i just kind of gut scumread your first two posts but after that you started getting progressively more and more town

Right now at least I don't think there's a collective plan on the election. I'm on board for sticking with Creature as our hider elect since he's as close to an IC as we can get and Math-through-Guilty explained why it's the better mechanical play to use it to get an IC rather than figure out someone's alignment.

[Katyusha]

Of course the second part applies, but his initial take on it is that it's "obvtown" and I want to know how you feel about that since you're voting him. I'm assuming Reck isn't Creature-levels of easy to read and that most people wouldn't lock a read on him on page 4. Plus it makes sense for him to use the second part of the sentence in any sort of interaction (T/T, T/S, S/T, S/S) as a result so I don't really see the point of discussing that part of the reasoning.

Oh, this?

Basically that was more about sorting you and Hindu simultaneously actually - I thought at least one of you/hindu/reck was scum and I thought the strangeness of the read would be a good discussion point to see if you and Hindu were partners. And, if you were town, it'd alternatively help me see it based on how you reacted to someone strongly disagreeing with your vote (i.e., why do you think this person thinks your scumread is obvtown?).

I think the intended utility of the question is obviously past its prime and your analysis of hindu is strong and basically what i've been seeing though so im not sure if this matters besides tying up an awkward loose end




which i need to do with reck at some point

[Katyusha]

just for clarification because i know ive been all over the place the past day but i feel a lot more solid about the gamestate now except for reck

{rc creature guiltylion byf}
{mastina anen cheeky}
{Primate s_s}
{EP srceenplay reck}
{hindu chess}

[Katyusha]

i'll boot you up too honestly i didnt even know thatd be a thing anyone would ever look for lol

[Katyusha]

a lot of people are starting to obvtown and EP isnt around

honestly poor ep </3

[Katyusha]

i'll boot you up too honestly i didnt even know thatd be a thing anyone would ever look for lol

for clarification this is because i dont think scum bullshits that read, i just?

never would have thought to fake that thought process

[Katyusha]

I’ve been scumreading Hindu literally all fucking game but keep jerking yourself off

pedit: great thanks for your insight

[Katyusha]

Katyusha I know u haven't posted since I last posted at you but ask transcend what it was that 100% guiltied him in surrep

sheep now or after I flip etc etc

Already know about it and didn't need trans to tell me since i was literally in ali's discord, follow MD, and watched that game - doesnt matter unless A: You make a full readlist by putting everyone into it (I can provide games for myself if needed since I hydra very frequently and I'm an alt, Some of my hydra games should just count as games played by me on a different account considering that my other head in those games barely posted but I dont know how much that impacts it), B: Explain the specifics of the tell, or C: Get any sort of near lock-town credibility (which at this point is exclusively a town flip). I know B isn't ever happening and I'm not asking for it to, but that's my stance. I have full faith in the tool, just not your alignment.

So unless you're willing to put the work into A and the results actually seem reasonable for a full-team dynamic and not something you pulled out of your ass or manipulated as scum, I'm operating off of my views of the gamestate. Sorry not sorry.

Posting this to take it out of my wall that I'm working on since obviously a response here was part of it. I'm probably going to take a break from it for now though because, fuck reckoner, this is literally less fun for me than Undertale Mafia which is saying a lot.

[Katyusha]

I'm fine with C, I just need your commitment of Mastina into RC. Both.

I know you're fine with C. I care about A.

I also don't see any reason to commit to Mastina > RC without a result from the algorithm as well. I'll use my own judgement, thanks.

pedit: Why is A impossible

[Katyusha]

GoGuy5 should I actually be waiting for an answer? Jw bc I have more work to catch up on since I don’t have a prod timer to care about anymore

[Katyusha]

Deal is off for me unless you tell me how it works.

Why do you only have the results on several players and not others, who are these other players, why can’t you get the results on the other players, and why haven’t you shared other results if you have them?

[Katyusha]

No, that’s not an explanation.

The reason to out that is because if you have a surefire scumread of Mastina then you have other fucking accurate reads town needs to hear if you’re actually town. Why wouldn’t you out it???

pedit: raybells idk I wouldn’t be with a guy like him

[Katyusha]

You said it was a “sure thing scumtell” for Mastina

Sure I get that the others aren’t as solid but we know which of your reads are tool-assisted and which ones are entirely yours. Didn’t need to tell me abc because that much is obvious if you’re coding something that works like this. If you’re town it’s important which reads are formed because of this extra info you have because it impacts their credibility significantly

The more you talk about it though it sounds less like you actually did the legwork for this and the only info you have is from a conversation you and Elli. Meaning you don’t actually have the tool. Am I correct in understanding this?

[Katyusha]

OK, so why were you being cagey about that?

And, again, even if they’re not entirely accurate I see zero reason to not at least out the other tells (e.g., “Anen let out a weak scumtell of theirs”). Just who and what. There’s literally zero reason to not share and it only helps your credibility

[Katyusha]

“Elli and I ran...”

No, this sounds like you both had the program and did stuff together. Which is how I understood 1669 and from our conversation you didn’t say how you couldn’t get a full readlist on everyone until now.

[Katyusha]

Fine, then I admit I was wrong and missed that post while trying to catch up

Doesn’t change the fact it makes zero sense to not share the other game relevant notes

[Katyusha]

given how game relevant it is I would be flagrantly shocked if ellibereth would not give you permission to out whatever tell you have.

The tells themselves are never outted which is fine

It’s just whether someone is town or scum based on them that I care about

[Katyusha]

RadiantCowbells, what you said in your 2304 is something that I 100% agree with.

+1

And chesskid if that’s all you’re going to give me, then it’s time:

VOTE: chesskid

There’s no town reason to withhold your other notes here. I can understand not explaining mastina’s or anyone else’s tells, but simply stating which reads you have based on tells is unacceptable? I’m calling bullshit

We’re doing this.

[Katyusha]

I have more I want to call out unrelated to chesskid but it’ll wait

[Katyusha]

first of all im throwing away the wall i wrote like 2 days ago where i basically threw my weight around and called reck an idiot for his vote (still true it was a terrible vote) but i dont think sorting reck there is the direction i need to go this game so im tabling it

the Katy push feels like a classic scum push where you pick a player who's not particularly town/scumread and hasn't drawn a lot of discussion and start pushing them because it gives you something to do, you know it won't get too much negative attention, and it might result in a compromise deadline lynch.

the other point in the wall was this actually and my team basically hardscumread EP from their first game-advancing post. i dont feel as strongly about it but i know historically speaking usually scumreads on me result from that kind of thinking from scum while town typically townread me and EP has literally been one of those scum before

If we're going in a route besides jerking off chesskid then let's go here:

VOTE: ErrantParabola

EP, can you condense your scumread of me into like some sort of soundbyte? Why am I scum? I think understanding your perspective will make it clear whether you genuinely believe in your push or not.

To people townreading EP besides Chesskid, why? If your reason is basically "I liked their catchups", how does it compare to Anenien's catchups to you?

---

Raybells, on Guilty, I kind of feel the same way I did about srceenplay in that I might have jumped the gun in saying this is his towngame but I'm not straight up seeing scum!him either. I want to give him space to work him out because when he's town it's extremely obvious and I feel the gamestate has been kind of oppressive in terms of forming a consistent read at this point

Also let's talk about Reck. What has he done that's put him at locktown for you? Do you not see why I think he'd be scum here even if I'm wrong?

pedit: Hi singer, sorry you had to witness this dumpster fire

[Katyusha]

see though thats exactly how i feel about anen's isos, and if raybells is at least telling the truth about his playstyle (see no reason to lie) i dont think him not taking the gamestate into account is relevant

plus being in the game longer also gave anen the chance to break down his thought processes a lot more clearly. idk. i just have a lot of difficulty scumreading it but if theres a sort of "EP/Anen are the same and we we're not woke enough to realize it" sort of thing going on then i guess this is how we start seeing if thats the case

pedit: skirt skirt has only seen scum you, trans has only seen scum you. trans's read comes from poe as well as your vote (he thought the team was cheeky/chesskid/you before he left. i dont really think i agree but he called everyone else obvtown), skirt skirt is confident that you're playing the same way you did in penguin mafia. why would that be an unreasonable position to hold? (jj is mostly focusing on his game, lycan has kind of poked in today. when i say team it's just the two of them because theyre the only ones whove been actively weighing in)

[Katyusha]

i mean yes it's

bad

but by relevant i think him doing it as town is plausible which is what's relevant to me

like i like the way he broke me down in an iso an interacted with me - it felt like a weird thing to fake for the sake of scum pocketing me. him calling the ss/me interaction artificial feeling was kind of an interesting call out. his breakdown on hinduragi was also strong to me

pedit: i think it's just a natural weakness of the playstyle that there will be good pushes and shitty pushes if you mostly read the game through ISOs. do you at least see the merit of what I think are the good aspects of his reads? because i do see why you feel your way but i think the positives outweigh the negatives

[Katyusha]

@everyone: how did hindu's flip read on me make sense

it didnt

[Katyusha]

i mean yes it's

bad

but by relevant i think him doing it as town is plausible which is what's relevant to me

like i like the way he broke me down in an iso an interacted with me - it felt like a weird thing to fake for the sake of scum pocketing me. him calling the ss/me interaction artificial feeling was kind of an interesting call out. his breakdown on hinduragi was also strong to me

pedit: i think it's just a natural weakness of the playstyle that there will be good pushes and shitty pushes if you mostly read the game through ISOs. do you at least see the merit of what I think are the good aspects of his reads? because i do see why you feel your way but i think the positives outweigh the negatives

Initially I did assume the intent was town until I saw how shallow and low level his analysis was, that's why I started responding to his points to draw him out into a discussion about what his read, that real time interaction only reinforced my concern that his ISO digs are very much agenda driven. He was unwilling to be open and discuss how his push was bad, instead he pulled more redundant posts shading me as scum and even voted me with a threat that "when he flips town" (bear in mind he didn't have a single vote on him) which was disgustingly scummy and was obviously intended to shut our conversation down/make me back off. Even worse was his backtracking on his conviction of me and his unbelievable reasoning for the unprovoked threat. RC did have a part to play in his unvote of me, but honestly it felt like Ane was relieved to move off me.

Sure he may have some good points, but overall the negatives far outweigh the positives.

I’ll probably take a second look then with this in mind, multitasking rn

[Katyusha]

i cant believe i had to read that twice

ping me when ep comes on i want to talk to them

[Katyusha]

UNVOTE:

What's making you go back?

I'm also probably going to start my anen reread now btw now that im actually in a headspace where i want to care about this game

[Katyusha]

yeah thats the annoying thing, i, again, literally feel the same way which is why i unvoted and reversed my take on the gamestate way earlier on

anyway if i dont stop procrastinating im going to do this

[Katyusha]

i mean his case on you is like actually terrible and i question his scumread of you's genuineness but i dont think 2175 is that awful of a reaction, mostly because i feel similar about my own slot and dont even really want to bother people with actually terrible scumreads on me like reck as a result since it just feels inevitable and since i know i'm basically going to be tuned out of the whole game as a result

my take is that i really should just reread him as a whole again

[Katyusha]

no, but i wanted that addressed because i dont feel like his progression through the game made any sense readwise and i dont think he's done anything to actually sort the game (which i addressed in the wall im not posting mostly out of spite)

rc if you ignored that question from me deliberately you can come clean, it wont affect anything regarding us in this game or outside

[Katyusha]

no, but i wanted that addressed because i dont feel like his progression through the game made any sense readwise and i dont think he's done anything to actually sort the game (which i addressed in the wall im not posting mostly out of spite)

rc if you ignored that question from me deliberately you can come clean, it wont affect anything regarding us in this game or outside

I must have missed the question, I've been busy and haven't followed up that much

i basically just asked why reck was town since you were unsure about me and i figured we can start by talking to each other

wrt mastina and singer's post, the only confusion i have with that point is that i'm still pretty sure she'd be doing the same thing as town. it's shitty, sure, but someone as principled and consistent in this regard as mastina apparently is would probably do it as town anyway. i dont know if i can actually say that that'd be why she's scum

[Katyusha]

Aneninen has no good reason despite all the fuss to vote for reck here, it feels awkward and over elaborate for that stage of the game.

...how?

I feel like in RVS if someone is pushing someone else for something provably NAI it's completely normal to scumread that

the wording i guess is a bit much but unless raybells is lying about anen that seems normal for him

[Katyusha]

im not following cheeky

i guess more the overreaching part, but even then i would think the overthought is in sync with the rest of his posting style?

[Katyusha]

my issue might be that i didnt read that part in context yet because im still mulling over anen in iso and debating if i should just sleep but

i dont really see 137 as x + y != z-esque reasoning, when i read it it's "my teammates and i agree this was a bad push from reck because it's null for rc and firebringer to swap when it can be easily confirmed they'd do it pre-game". which is a pretty simple line of reasoning, it's not multifaceted and ties into the same vein as "lack of scumhunting", "hedging votes", "no reasons for votes". Just longer. Is that the issue though?

To me it's hard to say if that's actually an issue. Like if you're going through an ISO to explain a PbP read, the individual points

should

be shorter than if you're going to make a single serious vote early in the game, since you're leading to the conclusion in the PbP read and you're at the conclusion already with the RVS read. It's comparing apples to oranges as far as I can tell. If Anen is scum this isn't why to me.

on reck, as a neutral third party can you look at his last vote on me and tell me if you agree that's scum? like with our discussion on his nullread on me i really got the impression he had no intention of moving it and he never bothered interacting with me until I poked him on that. why would he be confident enough to place that vote and act as if there isn't a very obvious town narrative to all of the things he's calling scummy? it feels like hes just looking at me in an exclusively scum lens and i dont really see the reasoning for that from town

the question is if he actually

is

doing that and if that makes him scum

[Katyusha]

The name of our team references Eddie being power-scumfucks.

????????????/ source??

[Katyusha]

it doesn't mean anything besides them being friends, obviously

the blindspot is hinduragi defending reck during the rc/reck interactions, reck tends to townread people who townread him early on

i dont really think there was a sign of him

abusing

it per se, it still really seems to me that if the interaction was scum!hindu/town!reck then the goal wasnt to pocket reck. it was just a normal interaction and what scum!hindu felt he'd do as town

both of their reads feel hedgey on each other though which is why it bothers me, especially considering how unlikely svs it is

[Katyusha]

Katyusha (idk this is why i don't like binary sorting because katyu is more just MOR and null right now and i dont feel strongly either way but gun to my head the stuff with mastina i could totally see being scum theater? katyu requires too many associative reads to be a d1 lynch IMO)

Kat do you know what he's referring to here?

no, that's why i prodded him and all i got was garbage in response

[Katyusha]

also on my anen reread i decided that at 2 am i dont have the willpower to bother with that much thought process so i'll go back to vegetating and playing tetris while occasionally refreshing the page lmao

sorry you're getting a shitty katyusha, i cant play in towns like this and i dont really feel i have much a rock anymore to bounce off of

[Katyusha]

Wild guess:

Last scum is signersinger/Primate.

i disagree, i really felt singer's entrance and later engagement was townie and i'm trusting shea's read here

eddie and i are both at ghostlin > gl > ep > srceen > no fucking idea we're townreading everyone else pretty hard, and we have like 5 lynches with this venge so let's go

elect: ghostlin

i felt the way rc engaged (or rather refused to) with me while I was scumreading hinduragi was from him not really wanting me to develop that read any further, and with how hard mastina and rc were set on buddying me that felt really out of place. plus mastina's townread of him was really out of place

the elect should really just be thought of as tomorrow's lynch - srceen your concern about giving scum the venge is out of place since there's only one scum left lmfao

[Katyusha]

why would it matter if scum have the ability to use it anyway if we're down to 1 scum after the rc lynch again

[Katyusha]

i mean i think chesskid was right that rc's last minute wagon on GL had quite a bit of scum equity so if you're ruling him out for some reason other than that i'd like to know

[Katyusha]

Hm

I’m still set on it being the hinduslot anyway but I’m probably going to look through everyone then keeping in mind that they need mislynches later when I have a chance - I only really have looked at mastina’s ISO

[Katyusha]

Wasn’t rc the one trying to go like “wHY IS EVERYONE TOWNREADING PRIMAYE?”

Like I distinctly remember him trying to muddy that slot’s credibility

[Katyusha]

Wasn’t rc the one trying to go like “wHY IS EVERYONE TOWNREADING PRIMAYE?”

Like I distinctly remember him trying to muddy that slot’s credibility

Might have hallucinated this nvm?

Rc’s iso is kind of huge but I remember distinctly someone asking who townread primate

[Katyusha]

guilty why are you null on creature btw

[Katyusha]

Anen my vote was on ep because at the time I sided against chesskid

Ep is still possible scum but from flipped scum ISO’s to me it seems more likely the ghostlin slot

Pedit: exactly

The elect is basically choosing tomorrow’s lynch

[Katyusha]

ghostlin if you're town i'd appreciate it if you asserted your own reads instead of selfing and throwing yourself away that easily

it goes a long way into reading you

can you unpack your anen scumread more?

[Katyusha]

my only issue is i feel like a lot of that does make sense for town

1. i dont really see why 'from a certain pov'-esque posting is scummy, especially in the specific instance you pointed out. he's trying to engage with reck and explain why he thinks picking him as a hider is a good option from reck's perspective (it's not, there's definitely scum equity in trying to muddy the hider clear as scum, but that's not your argument and it's also stupid to do that when you know you will be solo scum). explaining why it's a good move from anen's pov doesn't make sense

2. i mean this is around the point where anen turned around on mastina, before he was nullreading her and then he ultimately hammered her. if you read his iso theres kind of a clear trajectory where this turns into a scumread and this was basically the turning point for that. i think someone seeing mastina interact with that could trigger something within them that makes it clear she's trying to buddy because he obviously didnt feel great about his play this game.

i do agree the overreaction looks strange especially because mastina actually was scum but beyond the surface it's not too unreasonable to me

3. how does one take steps to fix incompetency in the midst of a single game? like how big of a frame are you talking here

like im conscious my play this game has been godawful but there's not really much i can do about it besides trucking on. maybe i'll redeem myself and find the third scum first. who the fuck knows

4. the point about him not waiting is weird, yes, but like his hider plan was immediately trashed down. i can see town who decided they were done waiting for mastina to not really find reck's input that important as a result but still remind him about it if he's there in twilight. i've literally done that by accident as town in a similar situation as well because i missed a jailkeeper's crumbs and it not only threw off the whole game but almost got me mislynched

5/6: Read the list again - there's no contradiction here. His read list is obviously not ordered.

Who are your alternate options again?

[Katyusha]

Yeah, no reason to give it to anyone else

[Katyusha]

I don’t really want to coast though, at some point we should go through everyone and be certain about our reads. Don’t know how useful my teammates will be here considering eddie is positive it’s just ghostlin, Lycan and Titus don’t check in too often, and jj isn’t following this one too closely. I could just be blabbering and we just win tomorrow but like

I’ve been through the “D1/2 powertown, late game fizzle our and scum wins 3p lylo somehow” situation far too often and getting reads on solo scum is WAY more challenging than normal, and fighting the inevitable town apathy is the way to go here

\_O_/

[Katyusha]

To emphasize I’m not saying we stall and don’t get the flip now, just at some point toDay or toMorrow we consider future lynches

Eddie chewed me out in the discord bc he was like “doing nothing for a week is worse!!” but I’m not saying we do nothing

Lmao - i’ll start cracking on this Friday if we don’t lynch raybells by then

[Katyusha]

singer if you think ghost is town venging him isn’t a good idea

The person we elect is tomorrow’s lynch locked in so you should probably be electing your top scumread....

also it’s not dumb at all considering we’re in evens

[Katyusha]

Raybells I think you’re town so that’s just mean

[Katyusha]

Also if you’d like your hammer customized lmk

[Katyusha]

How do you feel about EP smart?

[Katyusha]

Also add Srceenplay to my townlist

While looking at ISO’s I realized he had the same thought about Mastina picking RC as hider to nk him which not only doesn’t make sense from a scum perspective to think but also Mastina went out of her way to discredit that read

[Katyusha]

We win by killing ghostlin/ep/gl

[Katyusha]

Can you unpack that for me?

[Katyusha]

She wasn’t ever caught up with the game I HIGHLY doubt that lmfao

[Katyusha]

She was always behind, she only caught up after the first Great Eight

I don’t really see her coaching Srceenplay though like that seems astronomically implausible even if she were caught up

[Katyusha]

That would also mean she knew she was losing from the get-go

[Katyusha]

I don’t really feel that strongly about that because at that stage of the game it was clear we were lynching Mastina or chess and so EP would probably be trying to work around that

I don’t know if ep could have sold chess/Mastina as SvS with the impending rc flip though which was my main concern about ep!scum

Picking me as an initial vote felt like scum preparing for the next ml but I did want to hear ep follow up with their re-evaluation since they felt my reaction wasn’t in-line with their profile of me so...

pedit: self voting as scum while actually knowing how we’re using the venge is suicide, scum could push themselves to convince people to do something else sure but it’s like self voting. so if scum sway the vote on themselves let them since again they’re the locked in lynch

[Katyusha]

lets elect aneninen or ghost as soon as possible
and then lynch rc

sounds fine

i'll stick to my vote at least until we get a vc

[Katyusha]

the only reasons i really have to suspect anen is that he's the most likely to kill cheeky over chessslot (more likely it was just ignored though bc lolsmocaine)

pedit: RAYBELLS DO YOU HAVE REQUESTS FOR YOUR SOVIET HAMMER

[Katyusha]

im glad to know your heart is set free raybells but that doesnt answer my question because i can and will hammer you

even if i dont "hammer" you i will hammer you

pedit: god......................

[Katyusha]

no but i'd imagine rc will genuinely spam a lot so uh

[Katyusha]

i have a slight feeling hes just gonna flake


tchilly my man whats good

[Katyusha]

Ghostlin and Anen, just for the sake of it can you guys vote for your scumreads instead of yourselves? thanks

still want to hammer for memes

pedit: i mean thats a pretty good vote!

[Katyusha]

we're not giving the venge to someone with the expectation of nightkilling them while in evens btw

[Katyusha]

The brain trust and lower tier ivy leaguer advise the following course of action.

as in...............





sheeping rc or using the venge as a lynch lol

[Katyusha]

yes


What else

Pedit: he means the national anthem of the Soviet Union yes

[Katyusha]

o7 o7 o7

[Katyusha]

well that’s a diddly darn bummer

I will probably look over gl again since that’s who chess thought it was anyway

[Katyusha]

((u should elect him lol))

[Katyusha]

oh yeah I’m dumb

Alright that’s enough from me for today

Gonna hit up those gl and Anen isos see what’s up

[Katyusha]

ok


i dont think it will be appreciated but


ok

[Katyusha]

ghostlin does that really matter to you more than getting the venge on anen/having alternate scumreads in mind

[Katyusha]

1. Because elli had the program and they only selected specific people to analyze pre-game. I think Mastina and rc are like the only people in this table who play actively and in the current meta who would be considered anyway.

2. Probably because that’s when the scumtell popped up?

3. RC associatives were more clear IMO, you didn’t go out of your way to create a spam counter-circlejerk even if your reads were as wrong as mine at first

4. This is really the only scum equity I see from chesskid and it’s hardly worth the cost

I think paranoia is fine but with the r/o onto Smocaine who doesn’t exactly have the scumpower or chesskid I think the slot is just town

This can always be revisited I guess but I’m content locking it in

[Katyusha]

WHY WE SHOULD RULE OUT EVERY LYNCH EXCEPT GL TOMORROW:

HE SNAGGED A RED ROLE PM

Tbh from his team he might be the most likely to take 1

Maybe math

I don’t see NSG or davesaz picking scum, forgot who #5 is rn

[Katyusha]

Right, egg

Uh yeah I guess he’d take scum

[Katyusha]

Yeah that’s not really conclusive for me lmao

[Katyusha]

Smoc would u be willing to discuss other candidates or

[Katyusha]

Dude ur on vla I know u gotta power down and chill that’s cool


No one can be CHESSGOD but GoGuy5 himself


Pedit: boring but ok

elect: GL

Eddie will probably chew me out lol but this is fine for me at my current view of the gamestate, if he’s town he can just shoot ghostlin

[Katyusha]

Creature can you unpack byf!NotPOE for me bc I feel pretty strongly there

Guilty why not ghostlin

[Katyusha]

someone sparknote byf!scum he's really obvious town to me

[Katyusha]

Whereas BYF is a slot that as far as I know nobody thinks should live to LYLO.

Smart that’s not how this works

We’re just lynching whoever gets the venge tomorrow /:

[Katyusha]

When we broke up she mostly stopped playing mafia, then when she couldn't make D&D sessions anymore she stopped coming to the site. if you're interested I can ask her if she wants me to give you her skype though.

Are you talking about me or ether





mether

[Katyusha]

He's talking about Lilith. And it's okay, I just was curious why she stopped

I know LMFAO

[Katyusha]

Whereas BYF is a slot that as far as I know nobody thinks should live to LYLO.

Smart that’s not how this works

We’re just lynching whoever gets the venge tomorrow /:

First of all, it doesn't have to be tomorrow.

But regardless, if you agree that we have to lynch BYF at some point, then why not give him the venge?

I don’t want to lynch byf at any point rn?

It makes way more sense to just give the venge to tomorrow’s lynch since we’re in evens and should get info ASAP

Pedit: IM SCREAMING OMFG lmfaooo

[Katyusha]

I’m in class so I’m not entirely here mentally but I guess I need to outline in proper sentences why we’re giving the venge to scumreads and lynching them no-questions-asked tomorrow

[Katyusha]

ghostlin what are you trying to accomplish

[Katyusha]

where is my FUCKING vengeful

Alright it's been fun but

Reveal as IC

VOTE: Adenine

I can't think who else Reckoner would have targeted.

How did this change from "give me my fucking gun?"

Like this doesn't even make fucking sense as a defense of you are the IC, and the I doesn't stand for idiot.

I was talking more about this but


Hang on

[Katyusha]

Yeah I don’t see where Anen is harping about that point multiple times, just the first time he said it and when singer asked for its relevance.

Also I already dissected why your defense wasn’t that strong, have you looked at that?

[Katyusha]

thank you for obvtowning, anen

we're on the same page now (I think ghostlin is more likely but GL is my second guess)

Anyway, pending mod explanation I think I like GuiltyLion's plan for today - we elect then lynch a scumread, have them venge RC if town, and move on. This just means we get info faster which is the whole point.

[Katyusha]

Of course it was going to fail, voting for someone besides chesskid/mastina yesterday meant knowing it wasn't going to lead to a lynch

pedit: right, or plausibly chesskid > mastina but it's the same thing