Team Mafia 2018: Inventions Mafia Day 4

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Creature

[xRECKONERx]

@RC: why did you swap with Firebringer?

[xRECKONERx]

Yes, how is that relevant to the pointed question I just asked you?

[xRECKONERx]

We literally found out five minutes ago, so, outside of me noting it and Kilby saying "hm" that's about it.

[xRECKONERx]

Why can't you just answer the question?

[xRECKONERx]

Uh, because the rules forbid it maybe?

[citation needed]

Your group includes 2 people who should know that answer and your group should care enough about my alignment to have already brought it up.

If the question hasn't come up in discord: I refuse to play with Cabd.
Furthermore I made it clear before the games started which game I was playing in to avoid him joining my game, but he still chose to follow me into my game.
I complained to the mods, they wouldn't do anything, so I swapped out. To this game in particular because Firebringer was already complaining about Mastina being in the game.

Okay, if it just came up five minutes ago then that's something.

actually Kilby just responded and said you're good at scum and Firebringer is easily caught so that's his explanation

[xRECKONERx]

If the reason had anything to do with the alignment of the other slot, he wouldn't be able to talk about it.

8. You MAY talk about the preferences and abilities of any player and speculate which game and alignment they would prefer. You may speculate about the relative strengths of teams and how they would distribute role pms. You may NOT tie this speculation or otherwise refer to ANY action a player not in your game has taken in their ongoing game.

A good rule of thumb is any speculation one could have made just by seeing team compositions before the event is allowed.

Examples of things that ARE allowed

• "Ellibereth sucks at scum, he probably chose a town pm"
  
• "Zoraster is by far the best scum player on that team. If they got a scum role pm he probably took it."

Examples of things that are NOT allowed

• "Ellibereth is confirmed scum by team composition", when said by someone not in Ellibereth's game.
  
• "Ellibereth's probably going to flip scum in that other game so Zoraster is probably town here".

11. To repeat: If you have any doubt about whether something is against the rules or not, pm your mod and me, and ask.

isn't reading fun

[xRECKONERx]

To vote a player to recieve an invention you need to use the format elect: PLAYERNAME

HINDUUUUUUUUUU OMG <3 <3 <3

[xRECKONERx]

think RC's team saw FB's slot/scumteam and RC swooped into the rescue but i can't vote there yet because i promised to policy RVS vote the spam squad

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Reckonerx

I'm not dealing with this shit. I went out of my way to restrict the games I could join so I wouldn't get typecast as a player who would try to pick scum.

dat mad AtE overreaction tho

[xRECKONERx]

oh honey i was fiending for you to get all cocky and come @ me early

please keep em coming

im headed to bed

p.edit: probably, but if someone has an anime avatar they just become another anonymous face for my ignore pile for the most part
i do know RC, from context and reading other people's opinions, is brash and arrogant and ragey

[xRECKONERx]

ill also add someone playing AtE as meta doesn't mean they can't use it to hide as scum because i fucking wrote the book on that 8 years ago

okay bye

[xRECKONERx]

i do know RC, from context and reading other people's opinions, is brash and arrogant and ragey

That's not AI at all. Fake calm here.

VOTE: xRECKONERx

i literally cannot parse this in a way that makes sense

[xRECKONERx]

ill also add someone playing AtE as meta doesn't mean they can't use it to hide as scum because i fucking wrote the book on that 8 years ago

okay bye

How many years did you go undefeated as scum? Asking for a friend of a friend.

Reckoner is either scum or his team told him to attempt to policy lynch me and either way I want him gone.

okay RC your dick can be bigger if you'll just stop being an utter twat

actually my team all decided we want to policy lynch the spamsquad and im standing with them in solidarity despite wanting you dead
so you have me to think for still drawing breath, hun

I think that Reckoner as scum would see himself as a superior player than me and make this play. Nothing he's said has indicated he has any personal respect for my play and he wouldn't have had time to be briefed by Cheetory or anyone if they just weren't around. I also think it's possible that Hiplop told him to try to lynch me at all costs

But I don't think that this is a natural opener from him

no, you're wrong again. this is fun, i like it when i get to call idiots with big egos wrong
I have not, in the past ~5 years, ever asserted I was better than anybody and have in fact made ample efforts to point out that I don't have the time/patience/skill I used to have
People have made efforts to lynch me in many games because I'm not playing as up to par as my circa-2011 play

so no. my knowledge of you comes solely from making the mistake of stumbling into the same MD threads as you occasionally
and then judging the scummies one year you were nominated for Don

@chess: please chill w/ the capslock man

Also, RC isn't scary to Reck. That's not the part that makes it obvious. It's making him react like that and the "gotcha" and trying to see about his alignment that's telling. Noone's scared of RC.

I have seen very little evidence that he's trying to sort my alignment and a lot of evidence that he's trying to build up to a noisy confrontation.

What has he done that's actually helped to sort me in any way besides to query me on the Cabd situation?

let's be clear, i didn't query you about cabd, i queried you about the replacement because to me it fit a narrative of Firebringer being obvscum and you swooping in to save the day.
i had no idea about any cabd drama and to be completely honest i dont care

i chose to pick a fight with you RC because of the replacement and then your ensuing reaction to it. like you LITERALLY ignored me stating that hiplop thinks you're scum trying to save Firebringer and just moved on to meme with Anen.

anyway gotta pop into a meeting, caught up to #133

[xRECKONERx]

So, both Spiffeh and Espeonage think Reckoner is scum.

They brought up the same thing I had noticed. I'm talking about eg. this:

think RC's team saw FB's slot/scumteam and RC swooped into the rescue but i can't vote there yet because i promised to policy RVS vote the spam squad

By that post RadiantCowbells

had clearly explained

the reason for the swap.

Althoug I'm back after one-and-a-half year and I've missed a lot, in Team Mafia, things like that explanation from RC is something

can be confirmed instantly

. So, in short, the swap in itself is null.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: xRECKONERx

I don't understand. I'm saying I didn't buy RC's explanation.
That was also prior to Shea or Keely being online. They've since both confirmed that Cabd and RC have major problems with each other and that it's not bullshit. Keely notes however that RC's expectation that Shea/Keely would've already briefed me on that note is "skeevy".

VOTE: Creature

Scum.

VOTE: xRECKONERx.

nice

and btw

Elect: chesskid

[xRECKONERx]

man i have such a hard time believing Spiffeh actually truly with his heart of hearts thinks I'm scum for reading the RC swap as bullshit before I had teammates online to give context

like i am REALLY having a hard time swallowing that

@Anen can you ask Spiffeh why he's shit pls i need good stronk town spiffeh here to talk you off the ledge

[xRECKONERx]

time for some sPiCeY tAkEs

TOWN CANDIDATES

Hinduragi (though I fully admit this could be my awful blind spot coming into play still not touching it d1; but out of every player here he probably has the most experience with me to know me though it has been years)
Primate (like his reads rn and hasn't stuck his head up his own ass)
chesskid (i have played one game with chesskid reborn and he was town and it was similar to this and he's agreeing with me so check check check)
RadiantCowbells (after getting context from shea/keely + rereading his posts in iso with those contexts i see slight town motivation which is better than null)
GuiltyLion (despite weird bs tonal opening, liked that he seems to be actually thinking about things and i like the vote on anen but this is my weakest townread thus far)

SCUM CANDIDATES

Anen (really can't swallow this spiffeh b/s forced scumread on me, looks like vapid posturing to join my wagon)
Cheeky (votes me for not knowing RC's meta; also agrees with chess that "Anen is scum if RC isn't" and if CT really read RC as town enough to vote me for 'misreading' him, then he should've been more ready to jump on Anen)
mastina (and this'll stay until actual readable things are posted and not just "someone is scum because they RVS voted someone")
Something_Smart (dislike the pot shots from the side thus far; early day engagement over rules questions always skeeve me out when they don't go anywhere, and this one felt like scum being worried about town-me getting an advantage by metagaming)
Katyusha (idk this is why i don't like binary sorting because katyu is more just MOR and null right now and i dont feel strongly either way but gun to my head the stuff with mastina i could totally see being scum theater? katyu requires too many associative reads to be a d1 lynch IMO)

INACTIVE

EP
Creature
BYF
Srceenplay

VOTE: Cheeky

[xRECKONERx]

Yikes that reck readlist

uhm

how does having experience with you make hindu town? I can understand not wanting to D1 him but you put him down as a town candidate which implies you have a substantial reason to tr him

Mastina has posted actual things besides her typical opening? No thoughts on those?

your take on me is also pretty awful, i’m not middle of the road right now and I have no idea how you get “scum theatre” from Mastina and me barely interacting? Besides Mastina what interactions are you looking for to lynch me? Like I can’t even process what your intentions are here honestly I feel like you don’t even have a reason to put me in your scumpool


on the bright side tho creature is

town

pedit: creature you think rc is scummy?

1. Hindu's reads make sense to me and also having played with me before I don't think Hindu!scum goes out of his way to defend me instead of letting me be an easy lynch because he'd rather me be dead if he was scum. The caveat there is my blind spot is notoriously bad where I ignore people who call me town so I'm trying to be aware of that a bit.

2. I mean, mastina voted me blankly and hasn't returned to address it unless I've missed it somewhere. Until that is explained further, the read stays.

3. You are definitely middle of the road to me. You're null and I have no clue how to read you at this point and I think you have enough interactions with other people (moreso than many other players in the game) that a flip or two will make it easier for me to read you.

[xRECKONERx]

Shea (& partially Keely) have taken a stab at some stuff this game, and they did it blindly without reading my reads first:

Where we mostly agree:

- Aneninen scum read
- RC town read (though keely is null instead of town)
- S_S scum read
- Strong Primate town read
- mastina scum read
- chesskid town read
- Creature town read
- Cheeky scum read

Where we disagree:

- I read Creature as null, Keely has a hard town read on him
- I read Hindu as town, Keely/Shea read as null
- I read Katyusha as null, both Keely/Shea have strong scum reads on Kat

[xRECKONERx]

Moving my reads list around a slight bit:

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[xRECKONERx]

1. Do you think it’d be obvious if a scum!Hindu misread you? Usually in games with close friends where I roll scum I pay extra attention to how I’m reading them because there’s generally some sort of expectation they’d have of my ability to read them

2. What precludes Mastina from just being wrong then?

3. I would think having this many interactions with slots so early in the game shows that I’m scumhunting and trying to sort people? Is there something that seems fake to you about the way I’m going about things?

pedit: @reck

Tbh i’d trust your partners on creature and Hindu lol

Can you ask cheet/keely why he scumreads me? He played with me in spring fever so like he should know this is my town game lol

1. Why would scum!Hindu be misreading me? He would know my alignment. I don't think there was an expectation of me to say "Hey, I'm town, why aren't you reading me that way, Hindu?" It was just a really bold play from Hindu as scum but makes total sense for Hindu as town and right now I'd prefer to Occam's Razor and say he's town than say "Hindu's doing this weird uncharacteristically big play as scum".

2. She could be wrong, sure. But what makes it gross is that there was already a burgeoning wagon on me when she placed the vote which makes it opportunistic as hell, especially considering the reasoning is implied to be "I don't like this RVS vote".

3. Nothing seems fake or not fake. You're null. You're middle of the road right now. I don't know why you're getting so defensive. I'm not saying you're the most likely scum here, I'm saying you're not exactly at the top of either list (though my teammates disagree). Keely was reminded of the last time he played with you and said your poking here feels equally forced as it did last time.

My partners can't read Hindu and don't know him at all which is why it's null for them. You seem to be pushing hard on Hindu here, or at least trying to get me to be open to voting him. Is he your top scumread?

EDITED readslist based on partner comments

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[xRECKONERx]

Reck, do you believe me that the things you scumread me for are primarily playstyle?

I don't really care about self-meta.

[xRECKONERx]

Thoughts on xRECKONERx having 8 scumreads?

It was binary: they're either town or scum, no in-between. At least 2-3 of each side of those reads were null.

[xRECKONERx]

1. Right but your point is that he's avoiding an easy mislynch in your early game by defending you. I'm trying to understand why that's specifically town motivated to you when I don't see it as a bold play, especially if you're familiar with each other. fmpov i dont think calling you obvtown from that interaction makes a lot of sense if he thinks you're capable of that as scum either and i'm trying to see how you and anenien feel about that

2. Point about opportunism is fair but the read from a single rvs vote feels more like a mastina tell than not

3. I'm not defensive, I'm trying to understand why I'm null because I find that particular read strange. I guess Keely hasn't played enough with town me to know this is how i usually sort people - I really do think that I'm out of my scumrange btw but thats mostly because i started picking up on my tells and i kind of have a tough time avoiding them

Do you think my questioning is forced though?

Hindu isnt my top scumread btw, check my vote. I think it's possible he flips scum here though but theres probably only one scum in hindu/you/anen so I want to understand the three of you better

1. Hindu and I haven't played together in years. The last time Hindu knew me or played w/ me, I was pretty dominant. Therefore, if Hindu was scum and saw me as town (especially since I came out so strongly asserting myself with the RC situation) I don't see him stepping up to stop a push on me when he could've just let me continue to duke it out with RC endlessly. If he was town, I don't know what he'd do. If he was scum, I would expect him to stay back and let the fight continue without hard town reading me. Ergo, I think he is not scum. It's pretty simple logic to me.

2. I do not care about mastina's history or playstyle or tells or meta. It's dumb and bad and I won't abide it.

3. I think expecting people to know you're obvtown because you think you're obvtown is a futile, pointless endeavor that just lets to ego masturbation. I don't care if you think we SHOULD know you're town by now because of your meta. I don't give a fuck about self-meta. I think your questioning is null, personally. Easy to be either alignment.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't think it's at all difficult to believe: it's not exactly uncommon knowledge. At the very least you choosing to pick a fight with me and say that you don't believe me without doing anything to verify my claim feels like you're not actually interested in an explanation but are instead looking for a reason to push on me.

I barely know who you are, let alone what your personal gripes with people are.
I didn't think you would lie about something like that so brazenly and then dare me to confirm with my teammates, that would be suicidal.
I thought, instead, that you were using a real story as a convenient cover for your swap. It could've been both things.

[xRECKONERx]

time for some sPiCeY tAkEs

This is a shit readslist sorry. I disagree with most of it and your silly reads are based on up to pg 133 from what I understand of your progress. If you make a readslist before being caught up with the game then that looks too LAMIST imo. If you are caught up then I'm worried about our reads being so different.

Where were you up to when you posted this?

i read the whole thing you're wrong

[xRECKONERx]

@Anen: my vote was FoS? I don't understand what this means. My vote was "Finger of Suspicion"? No, it was an RVS vote. And yes, Keely told me Creature would be readable by the end of day one. But it was sort of a running in-joke on our team that we would all open the game in solidarity random voting the Spam Squad team, which Creature is a member of. And my game opened first so I was the first one to do it.

I don't know why Espeonage saying I'm scum would bother me?
The last game I remember playing with him was PBT4, where he was scum and tried to hide in my blind spot but I eventually woke up

[xRECKONERx]

But didn't she do the same thing before, in other games?

See: why the fuck do I care about that?

If she shows up and explains the vote in a way that isn't bullshit, my vote will probably move elsewhere. Until she does, it stays. I've already said this.

[xRECKONERx]

i read the whole thing you're wrong

No I'm winning. Your whole team is wrong :S

you have an anime avatar, you can literally never win

[xRECKONERx]

TOWN Primate | chesskid | Creature | Hinduragi | RadiantCowbells | Errantparabola | Srceenplay | GuiltyLion | BigYoshiFan | mastin | Something_Smart | Aneninen | Cheeky SCUM

I don't like hate hate this, but im not in love

off the top of my head bigyoshifan + errant are probably very likely town since this day 1 feels like one with 2+ scum scumfucking it up to prevent consensus forming.

Also drop RC way the fuck down, bring GuiltyLion up, and probably also Cheeky tbh I don't like that wagon.

"very likely town"
haven't posted

try again bud (also please don't ruin my beautiful colors, thanks)

I don't have the energy to godcarry right now and I don't think you can read me worth shit under the best of circumstances so

this self masturbation is really annoying, can you like not be an egomaniacal twat for mmmmm 5 minutes so i can actually get past my biases and try to read you and listen to what you have to say

[xRECKONERx]

omg boys, boys you both have perfectly fine penises

p.edit: I have no idea the amount of scum are in there right now, there are too many players in this game that are pants-on-head for me to even begin to decipher what's shitty town and what's scum motivated

[xRECKONERx]

i really thought my vote was already there from her awful vote on me whoops

VOTE: mastina

choo choo

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Cheeky

If she's scum that's fine but if she's not I'm tired of this.

How the eff is this not scummy?

It is, but you're also scummy, and rather than get into another pointless yelling match with RC while he stares at himself in a mirror and goes DAMN I AM GOOD AT THIS GAME BOW BEFORE ME I'm gonna just head over here with chesskid & others and find compromise lynches on people I scumread and actually get shit done

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Cheeky

If she's scum that's fine but if she's not I'm tired of this.

How the eff is this not scummy?

It is, but you're also scummy, and rather than get into another pointless yelling match with RC while he stares at himself in a mirror and goes DAMN I AM GOOD AT THIS GAME BOW BEFORE ME I'm gonna just head over here with chesskid & others and find compromise lynches on people I scumread and actually get shit done

How am I scummy? You gave a reason in your readslist that showed you haven't read the game. You said I didn't vote Aneninen when I agreed with Chesskid he was scummy but you neglected to acknowledge my post to Kat where I said I wasn't voting him yet because I had a plan. The plan was to wait on your reaction to my vote and I feel like your scumread is founded mainly on the fact I'm SRing you.

If you think I'm scummy maybe try helping others to see it so you can form a wagon or try to get a real read on me.

I'm thinking scum is in SS, RC, Mastina, Hinduragi and you at this point. But I haven't heard from BYF or srceenplay really so the PoE isn't complete.

"how am i scummy, even though you already gave a reason"

you saying "dw i have a plan that will explain why im so scummy" doesnt negate the read

& tbh i think my team's reads on you are stronger than mine and they basically dont like your interactions with kat so far so that's mostly where it's coming from

[xRECKONERx]

omfg if we powerlynch mastina d1 i will fuckin DIE
best game ever 2018

[xRECKONERx]

@RC consider yourself trolled scum.

You're still not talking to me: you're talking at me.

I don't bother trying to argue with scum.

Pedit xRECKONERx your team flatters me but they're giving me too much credit. They could try reading my games there aren't many, if they want to solidify a read.

fuck meta
also literally nobody is going to do that

[xRECKONERx]

im rock hard

[xRECKONERx]

he's saying you'll read me as town for sure if mastina flips scum i think but i dont really know

[xRECKONERx]

Reck has objectively done nothing to be townread

shut the fuck up or read a dictionary

[xRECKONERx]

plenty of people here read me as town despite you saying "objectivelY" nobody should

p.edit jesus christ so many posts ill catch up after this game of pubg

[xRECKONERx]

Okay boys and girls let's break this down.

First off,

RadiantCowbells

: other people had read me as town before chesskid3. Hindu had. chess. BYF did before finishing catching up. If you're gonna apply that logic to chesskid then you're gonna have to explain why every other person who had me as town doesn't matter.

Also, read a dictionary, because objectively clearly doesn't mean what you think it means.

Also, I never called you scum. I said I thought it was possible. I questioned the swap. I expressed my doubts. I never voted for you, not once, even when you made a lazy-ass vote on me. I kept my vote on Creature, then Cheeky, now mastina. In fact, go re-read my interactions with you- there was never a concrete scum read there.

Also, I did ask my team about chesskid's play. They all think he's town.

Finally:

People sheep my votes. Adenine sheeped my vote too, Mastina did it, it happens a lot. That does not make Mastina scum.

In no way did mastina's vote on me represent sheeping you. She tried to point to my RVS vote on Creature as a basis for her vote.
Fuck outta here with that

Second off,

BigYoshiFan

: why the chesskid vote after saying you weren't done reading?

Third off,

Hinduragi

: I'm voting mastina because I think the emptyvote on me was dumb and mastina hasn't shown back up to clarify it and the amount of hard buddying she's getting RIGHT NOW without even showing up to defend herself is ludicrous. The original emptyvote on me was quoting my blank RVS vote on creature and calling me scum for it. Other people rushed in to say, "Oh no, that's just mastina's meta!" I don't give a fuck about meta, I give a fuck about reasons and play in this game. Meta is an easy thing to hide behind so the argument carries no weight for me.

Cheeky waiting for RC to go all cute tryhard ragemode in order to stuff a vote on chesskid really sits wrong with me, especially asking for the hider afterwards. I won't give Cheeky the hider for anything.

[xRECKONERx]

Reck my dude

Im still reading and not trying to derail/defend, I just want some sane people to be left in the game later in the days. I just assumed you guys were trying to get some moonlight in a hurry based off how RC's talking. You guys all gotta chill.

playing with RC is giving me gas so the sooner this is sorted the better

[xRECKONERx]

Reck stop for a minute: why do you actually think that Chesskid is town?

the reasons i am working with chesskid:
- i read mastina as scum and chesskid is helping me achieve that goal
- last game i played w/ chesskid i let him take the lead on things and he nailed a lot of scum even though he was scum too
- im more than willing to let chesskid run headfirst into mastin regardless of his alignment
- mastina still hasn't shown up to defend the vote
- im more than willing to let chesskid pocket me and get in my blind spot for a day or two if it achieves my endgoal
- my team so far seems to think chesskid is v town

Because I think when you examine it you'll find out that the reason that you townread him is because you feel good about him because of his actions in the game and not because of objective towniness.
Ask your teammates to take a look at him too because from my point of view it's transparent that he's been trying to pocket your slot from the get go

one, reads are fluid. my town-scum ratio is a better indicator of "willing to work with for now" versus "want to see eat rope today". i expect my read on chesskid will evolve depending on what happens.
two, ive already said my team reads chesskid as town. at least, those that have chimed in. i pinged the others for reads just now.

[xRECKONERx]

CHESSKID. RADIANTCOWBELLS. STEP THE FUCK AWAY FROM THE THREAD FOR TEN FUCKING MINUTES.

whichever one of you (or both?) is town, you're poisoning the game and making it way fucking harder for town to do its job.

[xRECKONERx]

Thought exercise: RC, if you're wrong about chesskid, and he's town, then your yelling and constant engaging back and forth is just giving scum an easy place to hide. So let's stop that and try to be productive.

Now then: I don't foresee my vote moving off mastina until she shows up and succinctly and directly explains the vote on me.
I dislike that you've given her an out, RC, but let's just fucking let shit happen.

p.edit: I will vote park whichever one of you breaks the fucking armistice first. Go. 20 minute cooldown.

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: chesskid3

[xRECKONERx]

@BYF: I'd like for you to catch up and finish your reads on people, please. Also, you chastise chesskid for being arrogant and trying to steamroll the town, but RC is doing the exact same thing. Where do you draw the line?

@Cheeky: What about RC going ragemode made you suddenly decide to flip your opinion and vote with her? From where I'm standing, that looks entirely manufactured. Someone getting mad and yelling isn't an auto-town-tell.

@Hindu: Need you to take a deep breath and reread around the middle of the game where the wagon on me was forming. Since you read me as town, I want you to give me thoughts on the people who voted me, specifically regarding the way they entered the wagon.

@Primate: My whole team reads you as town. If we gave you a single bullet and you could just immediately kill someone and if they flipped scum, you win $1million...who would it be right now?

@EP: Thoughts or anything pls

That's all I have for now. Happy to engage anyone else.

[xRECKONERx]

Yes, RC should learn a thing or two about town pressure and momentum. He went ballistic to stop the mastina wagon before mastina even had a chance to show up. Now, no matter what, when mastina shows up she has WAY more information to make a response to people and it'll be very difficult to decipher.

I believe mastina is scum, pending more content. However, regardless of that, I think it's likely one of {mastina/EP/GuiltyLion} are scum. The amount of noise being created gives a perfect hiding spot for scum. If one of RC/chesskid turns out to be scum, I'll look even harder at the lurkers, because that could signal that their buddies are creating artificial noise to give them breathing room.

p.edit: Thanks boo

[xRECKONERx]

I'd also like to add to my reads that mastina is specifically avoiding this game while giving thoughts on others, so yeah. Avoidance. More scum points.

[xRECKONERx]

I might ask my team and see if any of them prefer to listen to people with massive egos scream at each other for pages and pages.

Because I don't.

Have you given a reads list anywhere?

[xRECKONERx]

I think 618 is town.

Why?

[xRECKONERx]

I think 618 is town.

Why?

Because it's a good damn idea.

What makes it a good idea?

[xRECKONERx]

Chess, we don't. Half the playerlist has no readable content.

So stop dominating it and shutting down any other avenues of discussion.

You calling my wagon "bad" without explaining why certainly isn't winning hearts & minds.

[xRECKONERx]

You calling my wagon "bad" without explaining why certainly isn't winning hearts & minds.

I don't really care about hearts and minds I just want votes

If you want votes, you need hearts & minds.

What was so bad about my wagon?

[xRECKONERx]

And why would she be more likely to avoid the thread as scum than as town?

I can't answer this without breaking rules.

[xRECKONERx]

Although, I CAN say... waiting out the time bomb worked, because look at how RC has completely killed the mastina wagon momentum and all mastina had to do was

nothing

this is literally a living example of why scum lurking is an ok strat

[xRECKONERx]

Although, I CAN say... waiting out the time bomb worked, because look at how RC has completely killed the mastina wagon momentum and all mastina had to do was

nothing

this is literally a living example of why scum lurking is an ok strat

If people weren't encouraging a fucking quicklynch on her I wouldn't have said shit.
I have zero regrets about how I reacted to Chesskid even in a universe where he's town and she's scum. There shouldn't be ridiculous momentum on an 8-poster.

This is a 14 day game play like it's a 14 day game and use the time that we have. There's people who have given the game absolutely nothing.

ONE person (me) made a joke about how funny it would be if a quicklynch happened. We were at L-4 at that point. That is an ABSURD overreaction to my comment.

Two, RC was the only one with a real reason for voting you. Cheeky wasn't really scummy but just really likes RC (but I can't really tell what's going on there tbh). Mastina, well, mastina's vote has already been beaten but it wasn't a good one. With that said, I think that post was just a bad one. Her others make more sense and idk, I'm not really feeling mastina scum yet. It's just not there for me. Aneninen was the one I found most scummy. Dude jumped on you but didn't even commit. Gave a big, weak "my teammates think this" to absolve all responsibility and straight up went onto you.

How are you evaluating mastina's empty vote on me (which IMO came at an opportunistic point on the wagon) vs Aneninen voting me with bad reasons?

By the way,

STOP FUCKING ANSWERING FOR OTHER PEOPLE RC.

I think you're town but this behavior is fucking blatantly anti-town and you're doing it willingly.

From Keely, by the way: Chess is town because the hard townread on me feels like negative utility if scum. Mastina push is based on solid foundation. If chess was scum, he expects chesskid to be more overblown when reacting to RC. Instead of being angry that RC is calling him scum, he's angry RC is slowing down the wagon. He also doesn't think mastina is a high utility play for scum here -- mastina is easy mislynch bait later in the game. Also, if RC is town, Keely says you're embarassing yourself with this holider-than-thou egomaniacal bullshit because you're unabashedly wrong about basically everything in the game.

Meanwhile, can someone summarize me where that Mastin wagon came from?
All I can see is 8 posts and a gamestyle I've seen from her before, regardless of alignment.

stop using meta to defend shit jesus fucking christ
the mastina wagon, for me, is because she slid in at an opportunistic spot on the wagon with an empty vote on me, implied to be due to my RVS vote on creature. until she shows up and clarifies, the vote is sticking. and the fact mastina has been active in other games but not this one is a huge red flag for me because she KNOWS this game is hanging on her response right now. instead she buried her head and waited for loudmouthed drooling idiots like RC/chesskid to distract the town.

lord jesus mastina's back. one sec y'all this gonna be good

[xRECKONERx]

breaking down mastin's reads and reasons on me:

"Reck is a scumfuck"
chess-reck is "textbook scum-scum interactions"

cool beans. let's break it down further

You are scum. You're not scum just because of the RVS vote, but that's a start.

There are town ways to RVS vote a player and then there are scum ways to vote an RVS player and yours was a scum vote

. More than that,

it was on a player never landing scum this game

--sure, policy votes are a thing, yeah...but by that route, we go back to there being town ways to RVS vote a player. There are town ways to declare a policy vote, and

the naked vote with literally nothing else was not one of them

.

Why was my RVS vote scum instead of town?

I have little-to-no experience with Creature, so I don't really know or care about what his meta is.

The policy vote on spam squad was supposed to be a 5-game-strong voting pattern for the lulz but the rest of my team was not online when games opened.

Your content since then has been utter trash. The RadiantCowbells push was noise--nothing real came from it. It was done to put RadiantCowbells on the defensive (because a RadiantCowbells on the defensive is a neutered RadiantCowbells who is less capable of going on the offensive and lynching scum), and it didn't actually lead anywhere because it was a waste of time that literally every fucking player in the game except for you could have said was a waste of time. They knew it was a waste of time so why the fuck didn't you? It makes a whole lot more sense that you did, you just did it anyway because it was something to push even if it was shitty.

Literally only familiarity with RC comes from him being an abrasive douche in the MD forums and then judging and voting for him for Don Corleone one time during Scummies judging. So, my only experience with him was that he was good at scum, which seemed like a reasonable thing to me to cause a swap. It wasn't until Keely & Shea came online the day after that they talked me down and said the Cabd thing was 100% legit. Furthermore, not all pushes go somewhere. Plenty of pushes die on the slab but part of what makes the game a game is that you keep pushing and prodding until you find something. You're also making the RC push into something it wasn't. I never pushed RC as scum or voted RC or tried to get a wagon on RC. I was pushing, engaging, and reading.

37 is blatant-as-fuck buddying of Hindu and frankly Hindu's basically locktown for me from it alone. (And for that matter, Something_smart is disproportionately likely to be town as well.) 214 was brushing off a legitimate point against you. 219 had the blatant-as-fuck scum-scum interaction, when you mentioned chesskid out of the blue, randomly. It was just there, in the middle of nothing, with nothing about it whatsoever.

In 226, it also reads like you trying to have it both ways on Aneninen's alignment and not committing to a read.

And 228 has egregious reads. Hinduragi is buddying as mentioned. Primate's done nothing warranting a townread. The chesskid townread is forced. Even the GuiltyLion read feels exaggerated artificially. (Because for me, there's really nothing TO read GuiltyLion on, not really anyway. For me he's a definitive null.) And all of the scumreads outside MAYBE the Aneninen/CheekyTeeky scumreads (AKA, the two most likely to be a bus, AKA, the two most likely to have actually accurate reasons) are done with even more shitty reasons.

39: I know maybe you don't have friends that you love and who love you or something, but I was

legitimately

excited to see Hinduragi. The last time I saw him IRL was way back in 2012 during the Reckoning II, and other than a few cameo appearances in discussion forums and one or two drunk late night Steam conversations, I've missed him. I felt genuine emotion and happiness when I saw him. I know, I know, might be hard to wrap your mind around, but it happens sometimes when friends who haven't seen each other or played together in half a decade finally see each other again. If your brain can only think in terms of gameplay and can't wrap your fucking head around the humanity of the game then I am actually sorry for you.

214: I still don't understand what that means. "Fake calm here" is a three word phrase that I don't know how to interpret.

219: I'm anti-town for asking chesskid to stop capslock posting because it was bothering me during my catchup? Okay mastina, woweezowee that's quite the ringer of a case bud.

226: The most interesting thing to me about what Anen said was that Spiffeh read me that way and I was curious why. The fact I never got any follow up on that is actually interesting, thanks for reminding me. Anen was a scumread, and me attempting to get Spiffeh to contribute more content there was a way to help read the slot. As I stated elsewhere: Anen was a stronger scumread until Spiffeh started contributing, and then my interest was piqued.

228: Let's see- already pointed out that you are emotionally stunted and incapable of discerning genuine friends being happy to see each other. Primate has been townread by me, my whole team, and plenty of other players in the game so I expect the same fervor and vitriol against them too. And for my reads, I very clearly stated I was trying to do a binary sorting to force me not to rest on null reads even though I preferred null reads because some people were way more readable than others, but I like when we ignore context for the sake of

trying

to make a good point.

"I'm scumreading her because she didn't explain herself enough". Except, one I already did even by that point, and two, Reck has fucking played with me before so he fucking KNOWS that I am...well. Me. Like. We even had this exact fucking song and dance in Alisae's For Us game. I distinctly recall I had an interaction with Reck about this subject, where I outlined why I don't explain myself that well and have a proven fucking record of not having explained myself well WITH HIM. It was a thing that game so he absolutely fucking has this in reasonably recent memory and yet he makes the point anyway.

Something_smart?

"I'm scumreading him because he produced content that I disagree with rather than focusing on NAI mechanics". Literally what he said. Literally writes itself for why it's rats-ass backwards.

Katyusha? "Might have scum theater with mastina".

There's just nothing good in them.

You hadn't explained your read on me at all. Show me where you did.
What the fuck is For Us? I don't even know what that game is. Literally what the fuck are you talking about? This is fake news.

---

Anyway, what's really concerning here is the first block of my response, because everything after the fact is retroactive justification of a bad vote. Until you can tell me why my RVS vote was bad enough to warrant jumping opportunistically on my wagon, my vote is staying.

PS

@RC

: Remember when you were telling me mastina was just sheeping you on to me? Huh. Doesn't look to be the case.

[xRECKONERx]

Like holy fuck chesskid pushes a basically policy lynch on an 8 poster and that wagon got to L-3?
Why are you giving him the fucking time of day how are people voting this

omfg if we powerlynch mastina d1 i will fuckin DIE
best game ever 2018

So first off: if you're scum I don't give a shit. But this is not at all acceptable from town.
this is team mafia this is the closest thing to a serious competitive game MS and you're trying to PL an 8 poster for shits and giggles because your scum friend made it sound exciting?
Like I love the meta around here but this shit is why no one takes MS seriously. this is why I can have an 100% win rate as scum in MU games and still be looked down for being from MS.
I can't make you take the game seriously but if you're not going to take the game seriously enough to not make this post then you can die.

Reckoner is like 80% scum but if I knew he was town he'd still be a straight policy lynch and as it happens I will happily support it as well as Chesskid.

And everyone else? play better.

stop being a pretentious twat

i literally won the first team mafia by leading a series of quicklynches all the way to the end following my gut reads.
here, read your history books, sonny. game over d2, perfect town victory.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it CK3 and Reck who were randomly pushing a hard townread on Primate despite them having at least one objectively scummy as fuck post

stop using the word objectively. you're banned from using it.

IF THE SCUMTEAM IS PRIMATE/RECKONER/CHESSKID3 AS OF NOW I AM CLAIMING MYSELF THE OFFICIAL MVP OF TEAM MAFIA.

god i can't wait for you and mastin to eat so much fucking shit after this is over
and yet you're both so pretentious you'll just blame everyone else
you actively make games worse to be in by simply existing. fuck off
you, legitimately, have actually made my experience on this site, in this game, and in my free time IRL awful. this is not a joke.
this is real. i want you to know that you being an awful insufferable prat in this game has had a real life effect on someone and i hate you for it. that's all
maybe one day when you're not a fucking child you'll realize how much of a shithead you are being and go back and read these posts and cringe like i do now looking at my posts from 6 years ago

[xRECKONERx]

@mastin:

Re: Hindu's reads.
He was talking me off the ledge about RC swapping with FB early before my own team was.
Obviously like that he correctly read me.
He also read RC as probtown through my bullshit fighting with him even after buddying me and defending me. I think that'd be crazy for Hindu to do that as scum when the loudest two town at the time were arguing.

Re: my team's reads on Primate/you/Katyu.
I've pinged them and asked for further clarification on their reads.

Re: you reading chronologically in every game ever.
When will you realize I do not give a fuck about you, your existence on this site, your meta, or anything pertaining to you?
You're so self-important that you think everyone should know things about you but I go out of my way NOT to know anything about you.
You're on my foe list. Pretending you don't exist makes my existence on the site easier overall. Because I'd rather just ignore you or be silent than be forced to scream about how much of a pretentious prick you can be.
The rest of this post is irrelevant. It's mastina ejaculating on the thread and going DOESN'T IT TASTE GOOD

Except you are literally fucking discarding facts about me you fucking know about from past experience using this excuse, and then pushing me using them in spite of their existence.

When will you realize I do not give a fuck about you, your existence on this site, your meta, or anything pertaining to you?
You're so self-important that you think everyone should know things about you but I go out of my way NOT to know anything about you.
You're on my foe list. Pretending you don't exist makes my existence on the site easier overall. Because I'd rather just ignore you or be silent than be forced to scream about how much of a pretentious prick you can be.
The rest of this post is irrelevant. It's mastina ejaculating on the thread and going DOESN'T IT TASTE GOOD

And seriously holy fuck

There needs to be an award category for this

Like if we're right you deserve paragon off of the back of the last two.pages. I have never seen scum so systemically dismantled in one go before

You're wrong. And an idiot.

There are town ways to do it.
And then there are scum ways to do it.
Your way was the scum way.

again, instead of repeating some kitchy bullshit phrase you've created: what is the town way, what is the scum way, and how did i do one instead of the other

God it's 2:45 AM.
I'm supposed to get up at 6 AM.

There's not enough time in Monday.
(Well, there mighta been, had I not made a miscalculation in setting my alarm, but that only made it so that I didn't shower today. Basically, I went to bed at whatever time 7 hours and 45 minutes from 12:45ish would be. Woke up, had to skip a shower because if I took one I'd be late for counseling, ate breakfast and got ready to leave, left for counseling, came home from counseling at around 3:30 PM, created a new webcomic which I was intending to post on mafiascum in the speakeasy once I finished with my games but it looks like it'll have to wait a bit longer, drew up the next three pages which're 3/4 parts of The Sled Saga, ate at about 8:30 PM, and then napped for an hour and a half because I was exhausted from the art.

...So I guess I also could've done it if I had given up the art as well, but. It takes me a very specific mindset in order to make those comics. I have to be in a creative mind and also be a specific me in order to pull it off--a me which is NOT mastina as you know me; mafia-me and art-me are mutually exclusive and most of the time I am mafia-me so I wasn't willing to give up the art-me for the sake of mafia games when art-me is so rare to come out these days and mostly is trapped somewhere in the back of my mind.

BUT I DIGRESS. The point being, there's not enough time.)

I'm getting tired, and I'm just now starting page 17. My goal is to reach 26, but I don't think I can read all the way to 36 tonight.
I'll probably collapse from exhaustion, or devolve into tiredposting which is worse than collapsing from exhaustion (the very earliest signs are beginning to set in--think of it loosely as starting to potentially be a bit tipsy rather than being an outright drunkard), but I want to keep going for as long as I can keep going so. Doing so now.

(By the way, this also means I can't read other games tonight or even my own PT because I don't want to get the feedback of my teammates before I've down my own read of the game.)

nobody cares about your shitty comic or stupid life story AtE bullshit here just play the game or get out of the thread

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: mastina

After everything she comes back with that? Fuck off. Bunch of self-important bullshit with no basis in reality or any interest in digging in to find a common ground.
Mastina knows she has her stupid fucking fan club in this game with her who worship the ground her self-important ass walks on.
She's repeating empty reasoning without any meat or potatoes.
And to top it all off, she's insufferable.
This way she either goes and is scum and I can laugh in RC's face about it, or she goes, is town, and when I die and flip town at least I get to laugh at mastina for being so wrong about me.
It's a win-win situation.

I just asked my team if they could find a replacement for me because RC & mastina are such awful people to be around that it has killed my passion or enjoyment for Team Mafia at all.
I'm at work so I will see how I feel throughout the day.
Beyond the game, you two need to fucking get a reality check and grow the fuck up and stop being children.

[xRECKONERx]

It's not AtE.

I legitimately don't understand how fuckwits like RC & mastina exist in this universe and are so blissfully un-self-aware that they keep going about their business. Like they actually find people to enable this kind of behavior and it's really frightening. People should be calling them out and keeping them in check, not continuing to fluff them to the point where they think they're infallible gods.

And luckily, after Mastin said something here about an Alisae game, I remembered I was in Beneath the Mask, that just completed. And lookie here.

Someone wake me up when pregame is over, kthx

Reck, you get the pleasure of having every negative thing you think about me reenforced if you're town here.

...I mean. You get to have most of them reenforced

anyway

even with you're scum, but things like me having absolutely shit-reads applies if you're town.

Someone wake me up when pregame is over, kthx

Reck, you get the pleasure of having every negative thing you think about me reenforced if you're town here.
...I mean. You get to have most of them reenforced

anyway

even with you're scum, but things like me having absolutely shit-reads applies if you're town.

what

Basically. You've made it rather abundantly clear that you loathe my play. I'm expecting that opinion to be reinforced this game. Doubly so if you're town, because I'm reading you as scum. (It'd mean that not only did I have a terrible playstyle, but I ALSO got a terrible read.)

Spoiler alert: I was town there.

Also, this is like deja vu now. Look at mastina crying about the same shit in Beneath the Mask. You could mistake some of those posts for posts she's made here:
Subject: Beneath The Mask [Endgame]

Specifically, how mastina pulled reads out of her ass before people had even posted. That hadn't registered with me on an initial read.

This is also a scumclaim because Reck has played with me before and he fucking knows that readslists before people have even posted is my thing. Like. It dates back to 2011, thing. Reck's played with me before and seen it in action. He knows better than this.

The post is also pretty scummy for other reasons but this in of itself would be enough.

[xRECKONERx]

Hey, I even made a response to mastina's bullshit claims that I would know how to read her!

Specifically, how mastina pulled reads out of her ass before people had even posted. That hadn't registered with me on an initial read.

This is also a scumclaim because Reck has played with me before and he fucking knows that readslists before people have even posted is my thing. Like. It dates back to 2011, thing. Reck's played with me before and seen it in action. He knows better than this.

The post is also pretty scummy for other reasons but this in of itself would be enough.

Actually let's do a deep dive on this one, babycakes.

Newbie 762: first game together. I was scum, you were town. You didn't post reads lists in a vacuum.
Lovers Mafia: you replaced in so the meta you're claiming is irrelevant here.
Desert Mafia: The only read you took was on a player who posted. You then randomized a list and said "scum is here".
Shadows & Lights: Look at that, you didn't do the list thing here either!
Graveyard Shift: Wowie zowee, you didn't do the reads list thing here either! HRMMMMM.
DEFCON 4.0: this was LESS THAN A YEAR AGO. last game we played together. No empty speculative reads list to be found anywhere.

wanna try again with that supposed "obvious meta", mastin?
do you have some other games my search didn't turn up where i should totally know your meta because we have supposedly played so many games together for 6 years?

There! Just copy/paste, and add Beneath the Mask to the list, a game where:
- mastina incorrectly read me as scum
- mastina openly said if I was town it would justify every negative opinion I've ever held about her

yay! so fun

[xRECKONERx]

Shea says Primate is a gut read coming from his soul. He's played over 100 games with him between MS, scum chat, and Magic: The Gathering Salvation. He just knows town Primate when he sees him, and this is town Primate.

Furthermore, mastina should 100% just accept that shit because she does it all the fucking time. And has literally done exactly that THIS VERY GAME with EP.

It's mastina talking out both sides of her mouth at once die die die die die die

[xRECKONERx]

Let's see some ISOs.

Reckoner

Things like his 18 "actually Kilby just responded and said you're good at scum and Firebringer is easily caught so that's his explanation" – are seriously scummy. I've expressed my opinion before. In addition:

why

would have chosen Firebringer a scum-slot in the first place? Teams were able to assign players to slots freely. If they had sent RC here originally, they wouldn't have had to swap at all. See?

There are, how-can-I-say, "let's be friends" kind of nulls, too. Like 61. Scum need to do that, not townies.

Double-checked his 228, that readlist may or may not be genuine. Too much scum indeed, but could be playstyle-thing, too. Somehow, his later explanation, starting from 277 gave me worse vibes, but I can't put my finger on it, why. I can't find the part where he had 8 scumreads.

In 466 he says, f-ck meta. Still, he's using meta as a tool, eg. in 275 and later, in that flamewallwhatsyt with Mastina. Erm...?

As for 663, his "the reasons i am working with chesskid:" – that would be terrible gameplay if both were scum. (This is an associative specualtion, though, which is not too efficient on Day1. But we should remember this later.) Also, from a scum-Reckoner, picking Chesskid as a "work partner" would be a terrible move, regardless of Chesskid's alignment.

Yet he votes for him in 682...!

Another thing we should remember later is his interaction with Something_Smart, around 696. This may be scum-scum conversation, a kind of "let's not ignore each other blatantly". But, this is, again, speculation.

And then starts that rage.

________

To tell the truth, it's

only

the rage part, with all those walls that looks town. Especially 955. But it's

still

there and I think a player can fake anything easier than a rage.

Right now, he'll be my

lean scum

read. As a reference to the other reads. I mean, does (anyone) look more scummy than him or not?


I'll ISO everyone later but now I need to go soon. I started with Reckoner because he seemed to be the most urgent one to get sorted.

Notes: #18 I can't fully respond to because it involves other game speculation but I will say that my initial post in the Discord was basically "I wonder if FB saw the final playerlist and freaked out or something and needed to be bailed out".

#61: how is that "let's be friends"? It's me openly taunting and antagonizing RC.

#466: Yes, fuck meta. #275 isn't meta. 275 is me explaining how I think optimal scum would play in Hindu's situation and explaining how that affects my read on him. it's not me saying "Hindu does this thing as town, therefore he's town". Context is okay to explain motivations, it just can't be the only thing driving an emptyread.

#682: I voted chesskid because I warned both him & RC that if either of them kept posting during the ceasefire I would vote them. He did. So I did.

[xRECKONERx]

Mastina is not as good a scum player as she thinks she is or claims to be and she couldn't pull that reckoner case off as scum. No offense to you Mastina.

That's basically it for me, I feel like everyone should take a second to read mastina scum games because she's actually super weak about pushing people. Look at her blah as hell push on me in org 13. Or like anything she does as scum.

I wish Ginngie wasn't on mastinas team because anyone with Mastina experience should have her locktown rn

The case was hot garbage. If mastina isn't capable of pulling off something that terrible then I don't even fucking know what to tell you.

You have a person who literally opened the game by saying they invented the ragey playstyle that used to characterize my scumgame and you're townreading him for expressing anger. Like he is mad because he's getting lynched.

I don't know what to say rn.

No, I'm mad because you and mastin are insufferable. I can accept a lynch with dignity if it's not utter horse shit. Most of them are horse shit. This one, especially, is based on nothing but mastina scrambling to retroactively justify a shitty vote.

I don't know about Reck.

What scumhunting has he done? How has he made any effort to figure out the gamestate besides tunneling Mastina over what basically amounts to omgus (for a push that isn’t even scummy) and personal grudge?

pedit: I don’t give 3 shits about your opinion chesskid especially if you’re going to selectively choose what posts of mine you’re going to respond to

pedit: yeah that’s cool anen

I've been tossing questions around all the time trying to get better reads on people, pay attention
the whole reason RC/chess had a ceasefire was because I wanted some peace and fucking quiet so the adults could talk

If mastina is the godscum emperor you seem to think she is how did you catch her off her first 8 posts again?

she's not, that's why she is so easy to catch????
jesus, your projection and putting words in people's mouths is truly a sight to behold

Mastina lost her last scum game too.
To me, no less.
So I'm sure she wouldn't have taken scum.
(Not counting mod is mafia because she wasn't a player)

Do you do anything besides call mastina scum on repeat all day?

she literally wasn't in the game with you when this started, you swapped in, how is this relevant

[xRECKONERx]

team wants to REALLY focus on this post

And calling ep town is a logical conclusion because Ep doesn't take scum


I'll get to this later I have actual stuff to do.

1. why would RC explain a mastina read for mastina that mastina has never explained

2. shea disagrees bc EP is fine at scum and the read isn't as obv as RC says it is

3. keely wants RC to describe the difference is between townMastin and scumMastin. explain like Keely is four years old. if it's as obvtown as you're saying it s, it shouldn't be hard to pull games together to make your point or articulate your thoughts (this is purely a keely request because idgaf about meta)

4. every person on my team thinks you're a douchebag, RC

[xRECKONERx]

I would actually be fine handing hider to Creature.

Elect: Creature

[xRECKONERx]

Like frankly you have been an ocean of verbal abuse and personal attacks and if anyone on your team thinks I am the problem here I give literally no fucks as to what their opinion of me is.

You can help town win by lynching chesskid or you can die. Your choice.

[xRECKONERx]

Like frankly you have been an ocean of verbal abuse and personal attacks and if anyone on your team thinks I am the problem here I give literally no fucks as to what their opinion of me is.

You can help town win by lynching chesskid or you can die. Your choice.

[xRECKONERx]

We're done bud.

done talking to a jackass like you, if anybody else wants to chat, im here

[xRECKONERx]

Considering you made thinly veiled attacks on mastinas autism.you really have no right to be talking regardless of your alignment here.

i did no such thing and dont even know if mastina is autistic so maybe dial it the fuck back a bit

[xRECKONERx]

reck lets do the math how do we get 8 on mastina.

me/you/hindu/primate is 4
i dont know anybody else
yoshi might be open to it
creature seems reasonable this game

i dont see anen or RC ever joining it

[xRECKONERx]

I would leave the site I'm ngl

let this be enshrined forever

[xRECKONERx]

if mastina flips scum ill vote chesskid tomorrow RC

[xRECKONERx]

sorry, if he DOESN'T flip scum

[xRECKONERx]

Nah if mastina flips scum I'm untouchable tbh
Scum will have to kill me because there's no fucking way mastina and I fake this

If mastina flips town then you get your wish and I'll vote chesskid tomorrow even though my whole team reads him as town.
(tbh, we all still think you're probably town given the d1 situation right now too? though everyone really really WANTS you to be scum)

[xRECKONERx]

chesskid even though i think we're right about mastina your arrogant bullshit is really tiring and making even ME want to vote you just to shut you up
so i dont know how you expect to win over other people to the wagon while being a twat

[xRECKONERx]

even ME

i dont think this even applies that much here?

Like you've voted me a lot :meta: and im well aware you aren't my biggest fan.


but you know my reads are good so w/e

i have a higher thresshold for the capslock rageface bullshit than most considering Screaming Death Clan was a thing before most people here even joined the site
i don't have much of an opinion on you as a person or player
my "even ME" thing was pointing out I am tempted to bail on mastina just to vote you for how arrogant you're being

[xRECKONERx]

@RC: keely also asked you to explain to him like he's four what is townMastina and what is scumMastina and you haven't done that

[xRECKONERx]

@RC: You're moving the goalposts.
When i first had a problem with mastina's vote on me, you waved it away by saying, "Oh, she's just sheeping me." I argued against that.
Then, mastina shows up, CONFIRMS what I said -- it wasn't because I was scum. It was because I "didn't RVS the right way".
Then, pages and pages of extra horseshit to retroactively justify the bad vote.

I'm solely concerned about the bad vote and that's something mastina STILL hasn't addressed. Repeating the phrase "there's a town way and a scum way to RVS" is NOT a reason. And then she keeps repeating it, like repeating something makes it true. It doesn't.

I'm not even getting started on the weak ass case mastina posted, or how she is pulling out prior experiences that literally didn't happen while willfully ignoring the relevant ones that did. I'm still sitting there looking at the terrible emptyvote and I haven't gotten a reaction.

For what it's worth: Keely never said you were a douchebag, he just said you're embarrassing yourself by being so wrong.

[xRECKONERx]

And for the record: I think that I am straight up hurting the town right now by letting go of the control game, which I would win by default if I continued to contest.

dont really want to wall you on mastina scum

shes just scum ive explained why whether you saw it or not it's clearly there so

This doesn't give me any reason to change my townread on her or scumread on you. If you want to just compile the explanations you've given that's fine too.

Jesus Christ.
Chesskid, PLEASE remind me to come back to this thread when Team Mafia is over. Please.

[xRECKONERx]

When i first had a problem with mastina's vote on me, you waved it away by saying, "Oh, she's just sheeping me." I argued against that.

Correction: I said that whether she voted you or Adenine was meaningless in terms of whether she was ignoring Adenine because she is liable to follow my vote anyway.
On top of this, I would say that most of the times that people end up sheeping me they would not describe it as sheeping me to themselves or others.

First off, I never argued that ignoring Adenine was meaningful. Hindu did.
Second off, this doesn't say what you say it does.

Adenine sheeped my vote too, Mastina did it, it happens a lot. That does not make Mastina scum.

This says mastina sheeped you. As a fact.

I'm solely concerned about the bad vote and that's something mastina STILL hasn't addressed. Repeating the phrase "there's a town way and a scum way to RVS" is NOT a reason. And then she keeps repeating it, like repeating something makes it true. It doesn't.

Here's the thing: do you or do you not believe that it is possible that Mastina believes that there is a town way and a scum way to RVS?
Let's forget about whether you do. Do you think that it's plausible that Mastina believes that? Because I certainly do and I swear I have heard her say the exact same thing in at least one past game.

To be honest, I try not to think about what mastin thinks.
I don't think it matters whether mastin believes it or not. That's like me saying "I believe people who post in all caps are automatically town" and it not mattering if its true but me basing my votes and reads off of it. It's easy to fake reads on people.
Like, I hear your point that mastin may actually hold these views. I don't think it affects whether or not she's deploying those views in service of actual town play.

I'm not even getting started on the weak ass case mastina posted, or how she is pulling out prior experiences that literally didn't happen while willfully ignoring the relevant ones that did. I'm still sitting there looking at the terrible emptyvote and I haven't gotten a reaction.

What you brought up in terms of prior experiences signalled to me that Reckoner frequently gets tunneled by Town!Mastina who ends up feeling super strongly about it and ends up being proven wrong. If that's not what the message there was supposed to be, then I don't know what it was. And again, that does nothing to indicate to me that Mastina is scum.

What do you mean? The stuff I brought up from Beneath the Mask?
In that game, I was flabbergasted by mastin claiming I should be familiar with her play just because I've been on the site a while. I was showing how few games we had played, and moreso than that, trying to puncture a hole in the disgusting Cult of Mastina that exists on the site that worships the ground she walks on, even when she's wrong as fuck more often than not IME.

[xRECKONERx]

The scumread on Reckoner is fairly reasoned and largely accurate: you may not agree it makes him scum but the dissection of his interactions is completely valid.
I highly recommend anyone scumreading her actually stop for a moment and go back and read her scum games. Org 13 especially is night and day from this game. Roxas's ISO.

no wrong try again
try addressing my responses to that instead of pretending like the past 10 pages didn't happen

[xRECKONERx]

I won't vote chesskid today.
However, my team has been following the game and with me just getting done with dinner, they have a proposal.

1. I will abandon the tunnel of righteousness on mastina for today.
2. We will lynch a quieter read (a lot of them have hated Yoshi's most recent posting and wouldn't mind seeing him lynched).
3. I will target mastina overnight with the hider.

Options are:
1) If mastin is town, scum have to waste a kill on me to frame mastina, who would likely face lynch pressure anyway. We're both lynch targets, so scum make a supremely sub-optimal play by removing a town lynch target to frame an already likely lynch target.
2) If mastin is town, scum can kill mastina and therefore take out both of us. We're both STILL lynch targets facing pressure, so they waste a kill to take out TWO lynch pool targets, exposing themselves even more.
3) If mastin is town, then scum can kill anyone else and we are able to sort mastina and stop this fucking headache.
4) If mastin is scum, then I die and the same course as #1 happens.

Basically, no matter who we lynch today, if we give me the hider and let me go after mastina with it, we either wind up with scum sorting the problem out for us (allowing us to lynch elsewhere and find other possible scum today and forcing scum's hand) or we wind up with me confirming mastina's alignment either way. The worst case scenario is if me/mastin are both town and they shoot mastin, thereby killing me as well. And that's not even the worse scenario, because town will have TONS OF DATA POINTS to look at from the two of us, PLUS another from today's lynch.

[xRECKONERx]

Like I can't help the fact that this town is too fucking dumb to realize what you're doing when I've made it as clear as I have
like people are still saying stupid shit about how you wouldn't do this as scum when I've explained how it's EXACTLY the strategy for scum
so if winning by reason doesn't work then I am going to win by volume. we are going to have two chesskids from now on until that one is dead

We are not lynching a quieter read reck. Chesskid is the lynch today, if you want to hide behind Mastina I will give you the hider.

Let chesskid shut the fuck up then and let's pow-wow about who to lynch because I won't lynch chess, and you won't lynch mastina.

We're in a weird four-way right now and my team and I all agree you're probably town anyway so I'm town, you're town, let's open up some other avenues and let the me/mastin thing sort itself out. Mastin's alignment confirmation will help you sort chesskid.

[xRECKONERx]

RC, if you want to work this out, you have to actually budge.

Trust me, I get the fucking frustrations with chesskid because he's being a piece of shit and it's obnoxious to have him in this game.

And I fucking agree with him.

Despite my temptations to do so thus far, I'm not going to lynch chesskid just because he's obnoxious. I want to lynch scum, and find more scum.

If you're town, we can steer the game away from this awful clusterfuck and actually make progress.
I'm not asking you to lynch a town read. I get you have a hard "no" on mastina, and I have a hard "no" on chesskid.
Let's both have our security blankets for the time being, go somewhere else, and let this sort out at night.

Chesskid has no intentions to shut the fuck up despite my continual requests to do so. That makes him a shitty person that's awful to play with, not necessarily scum. Come out and claim a guilty on him D2, I don't care. Leave it for now. The two of you are both being fuckwads and I'd appreciate some cooperation on your part. Don't stoop to chess's antics if you're town, work with actual town to find a solution.

[xRECKONERx]

Also you should lynch Chesskid because I am RC and I said so.

Fuck off. I hate this game because of all 4 of you.

[xRECKONERx]

RC, if you want to work this out, you have to actually budge.

Trust me, I get the fucking frustrations with chesskid because he's being a piece of shit and it's obnoxious to have him in this game.

And I fucking agree with him.

Despite my temptations to do so thus far, I'm not going to lynch chesskid just because he's obnoxious. I want to lynch scum, and find more scum.

If you're town, we can steer the game away from this awful clusterfuck and actually make progress.
I'm not asking you to lynch a town read. I get you have a hard "no" on mastina, and I have a hard "no" on chesskid.
Let's both have our security blankets for the time being, go somewhere else, and let this sort out at night.

Chesskid has no intentions to shut the fuck up despite my continual requests to do so. That makes him a shitty person that's awful to play with, not necessarily scum. Come out and claim a guilty on him D2, I don't care. Leave it for now. The two of you are both being fuckwads and I'd appreciate some cooperation on your part. Don't stoop to chess's antics if you're town, work with actual town to find a solution.

hes not town reck thats why i cant stop.


Step back throw out the read and ask what scum does when righteous fury of chesskid is already brought to bear on mastina

They probably sit the fuck back and do nothing like 75% of this playerlist is doing.
Because you and RC are creating space for them to do so.

I still think mastina is scum. Let me divebomb her tonight and you can definitively prove it tomorrow. Then there won't be an uphill battle, and you can laugh & dance all over the place if I flip dead overnight.

[xRECKONERx]

Out of the most anti-town things I've ever seen a town do, this takes the cake. This game is nigh on unreadable with how much interjection and opinion you're all trying to force on everyone in this game. Nothing is getting done and, to be honest, there's no reason to keep this up like it has been. Learn to work with others. That's what a town does. Working with others does not mean repeating stuff until they appease you or join you.

This is exactly the quote RC & chesskid need to read then go to the chalkboard and write 100 times.

[xRECKONERx]

RC, you're missing a very key element. There ARE people who are tired of it. Who does chesskid have control over? Me? The person trying to buck his plan and find another option?

Srceenplay? Who refused to vote with chesskid over and over until he arrived at his own read?

Certainly not. And nobody else is marching to the beat of his drum either.
He has browbeat plenty of others in the game, and yet, there are only 2 non-CK votes on mastina right now.
You're WAY overblowing the power chesskid has in the game.
90% of the playerlist just hates him and wants him to shut the fuck up.

You can either lose the same portion of the playerlist who wants you to shut the fuck up too, or you can play ball with the rest of the game.
Because at this rate, I'm 100% sure I'm not alone in thinking "Man, I really don't care which of them is town or scum, I just want them dead so I don't have to pay attention to anything they say anymore."

That INCLUDES all your post-death reads if you're town and get NK'd. You think anyone's gonna go back through and read mountains of shit if it's full of back and forth screaming?

[xRECKONERx]

Reckoner please like
you don't understand how this works like YOU YOURSELF are still townreading chesskid.

How do you think that town EVER musters together to lynch Chesskid if I'm not around if with me AND mastina repeatedly calling him scum it's literally fucking pulling teeth to get anyone to vote him.
Do you really think that scum wouldn't just support me, lynch Chesskid, and blame me for it if he was town? Do you think that scum like Chesskid any more than I do?

The only way I accept a compromise lynch is if the hider is locked onto chesskid no ifs ands or buts. And I'm not willing to vote Mastina.
But we could lynch Chesskid and put a hider onto Mastina and both of our issues are solved and I get a lot more information about Chesskid's relationship with you.

No more spam, Mastina is sorted either way, at the very WORST from your position we lose one townie who is somewhat scumread in Mastina and one person who is ruining the game in Chesskid


You say compromise but the end result of your compromise is neither you nor chesskid being lynched or hid behind and that's not even close to okay for me.

I do not trust the town at all.

Im also willing to offer swapping out if we lynch mastina

Sorry did you want Kats to try to bail you out of the shithole that you dug yourself into?

I'll accept hiding behind chesskid and lynching neither chess nor mastina.

[xRECKONERx]

Elect: xRECKONERx

UNVOTE: mastina

[xRECKONERx]

Just trust me. We'll get more info this way.

If you're town, you should trust me and go with it.

[xRECKONERx]

I want to hide behind chesskid.
I don't trust mastin to do it, I don't trust RC not to call an audible because he thinks he'd god's gift to mafia.

And I'm the person who has had the most pressure today other than mastin/chess, so it makes the most sense to be willing to lose me to a flip.

p.edit: My team really disliked Yoshi's recent posting, though I'll be honest I have barely caught up since I'm trying to sort out this whole RC/chess/mastin thing.
Anen pinged me early as scum and then has kinda faded into the background, probably worth an iso? I'll dive in to Anen shortly and ask my team for more reasoning on Yoshi.

[xRECKONERx]

And I'm the person who has had the most pressure today other than mastin/chess, so it makes the most sense to be willing to lose me to a flip.

Except I know you're town. You don't read me as hard as I read you. Let me do it. If I die, you're basically conftown.

Like, yeah, you can have it if you want it but I think everyone will trust me more to use it on the person I say I will. It's much more information to have you as town and ck as town or scum than otherwise.

You and chess have the strongest town reads on me. Nobody trusts you enough to believe you when you die.

I wanna do it. It makes the most sense.

[xRECKONERx]

reck just confirm you've seen my posts and are still sameplan and ill sheep

yep. i think this will sort things out and if youll accept it we can actually move on from this cf

Elect RC

why?
i really don't like this empty election of rc

[xRECKONERx]

Elect RC

why?
i really don't like this empty election of rc

Votes stop after 4 days, and I don't know how close we are, and I trust RC.

You do realize optimal play is NOT to give it to the person you most trust/think is town, right?

[xRECKONERx]

its the first 4 game days BigYoshiFan proving yet again hes a genius

Elect: reck

Oh no way in hell.
We're electing someone who is not a likely scumpartner to you.

RC, you have to be absolutely insane to think me/chess are playing as buddies today.

We found a plan that doesn't involve mastin getting lynched, nor chess, and will sort itself out tonight.

Please don't torpedo this. We're so close to moving on.

p.edit: I already explained why it's optimal. Because chess and I are both clearly in the lynch pool. this isn't chesskid's desired play for the day but without me he has nothing and i desire this

p.edit: yes, i already told you what the deal was. but you changed it by saying you weren't comfortable with me being hider. it's the only way i go along with this because you would absolutely decide overnight "nah gonna target someone else" and while i think you're town i dont trust you. one of the four of {me/you/mastina/ck} should end up with the hider. i am the best option.

[xRECKONERx]

RC the more you talk the less effective this becomes.

[xRECKONERx]

Do you trust my brain or not? I don't need you chiming in like the devil on my shoulder every time I make a post, thanks.

@RC: I was already talking about me being the play for hider. I mentioned it here. Keely & Shea came up with it while I was away for a couple of hours.

Spoiler:

I won't vote chesskid today.
However, my team has been following the game and with me just getting done with dinner, they have a proposal.

1. I will abandon the tunnel of righteousness on mastina for today.
2. We will lynch a quieter read (a lot of them have hated Yoshi's most recent posting and wouldn't mind seeing him lynched).
3. I will target mastina overnight with the hider.

Options are:
1) If mastin is town, scum have to waste a kill on me to frame mastina, who would likely face lynch pressure anyway. We're both lynch targets, so scum make a supremely sub-optimal play by removing a town lynch target to frame an already likely lynch target.
2) If mastin is town, scum can kill mastina and therefore take out both of us. We're both STILL lynch targets facing pressure, so they waste a kill to take out TWO lynch pool targets, exposing themselves even more.
3) If mastin is town, then scum can kill anyone else and we are able to sort mastina and stop this fucking headache.
4) If mastin is scum, then I die and the same course as #1 happens.

Basically, no matter who we lynch today, if we give me the hider and let me go after mastina with it, we either wind up with scum sorting the problem out for us (allowing us to lynch elsewhere and find other possible scum today and forcing scum's hand) or we wind up with me confirming mastina's alignment either way. The worst case scenario is if me/mastin are both town and they shoot mastin, thereby killing me as well. And that's not even the worse scenario, because town will have TONS OF DATA POINTS to look at from the two of us, PLUS another from today's lynch.

So, all further negotiations for me were under that.
I do think mastin is a more optimal target for me (from my POV) than chesskid. But, I understand there has to be give & take to get you on board, so I'm willing to make my target chesskid because I'm pretty confident we'll achieve the same result either way, just with a different path there.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm analyzing this from a perspective of "who can we afford to lose?"

At this point, we need to sort out as many of {me/chess/mastina} as possible. One of us having hider and bombing into another one is the best chance at either getting confirmations or having some flips that help people analyze.

[xRECKONERx]

Reckoner: do you have any trust issues with a Hinduragi nomination

I have efficiency issues with a Hinduragi nomination.
I don't believe he's scum right now and wouldn't gain anything from his potential use of the role, especially if he dies.

Who are you thinking I'm going to claim an innocent on?
If I come back with an innocent on chesskid then isn't that what you want? Isn't that a potential outcome of this?
Or are you saying I would target someone else from the lurkerpool?

Like, that's basically signing my death warrant. The whole reason I put this plan in place is to clear up this stupid 4 way clusterfuck that has dominated D1.
We have novel length content to analyze based on what happens with the four of us.

My preference would be:
> Lynch someone with less content/harder to read (I'll have to consult with my team on this since I've been so preoccupied with this shit.)
> I get hider, go after chesskid.
>> I die, chess dies: we're both town, now you have information to analyze tomorrow with two less potential mislynches for scum to use.
>> Neither of us dies: we're both town, and we can move forward based on night kills with alignment confirmation.
>> I die: chess is lynched. I'm out of the potential mislynch pool.
>>> Chess flips scum: I went out confirming chess as scum, worth.
>>> Chess flips town: scum had to waste a kill on me to get someone mislynched. Still town advantage.

[xRECKONERx]

If I'm town it makes no sense for me to target someone irrelevant with hider and thereby blow up the WHOLE REASON my team came up with this plan in the first place. And you're not the one that has to deal with them screaming at me for being an asshat in Discord.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm not going to compromise on it not being me. To be frank, I don't really trust anybody else to do it.

I don't trust anybody else to
1) clear up this clusterfuck
2) not be scum

I'm caving on the mastina push. If you want to go back to this stupid 2v2 dumbfuck cuckfest, we can.
My original plan wasn't even hiding behind chesskid, it was hiding behind mastina. I caved on chesskid instead. I'm not caving again on someone else getting the role.

If you want someone else to be the hider, then I want the target back on mastina.
Even then, I'm uncomfortable with it, because I am paranoid and don't trust anybody else to tell the truth.
But at least that way I don't feel like I'm giving away everything to get a sliver of what I actually want.

If I get PL'd because I got an innocent on chesskid, there are worse things that can happen.
If you're that confident on chesskid scum then it shouldn't even be a concern in your mind.

[xRECKONERx]

If I'm scum here with chesskid, then this plan fucks me over no matter what.
I can't fake a guilty on him for town cred with hider, because id be alive still.
And by "confirming" My buddy as town (by targeting someone else or not using it), I'm still signing my death warrant since you're gonna test the inno.

[xRECKONERx]

@RC: Please what? What's wrong with my logic? I do townread Hindu but that's not really relevant to the Hider plan because it's not purely about town reads for me

@CT: Why does RC->chesskid work, but not me->mastina? Both work under the same logic there but you're only espousing one way. Also, for someone who townreads RC, I feel like you should be more concerned about RC blowing up on chess-scum.

[xRECKONERx]

And yes, the assumption is obviously the reads of any flipped town players are analyzed duh. I'm not making a mastina lynch automatic if me/chess flip town because tbh I don't expect you to actually agree to that, RC, but I trust that the other town players would listen if something that drastic happened.

[xRECKONERx]

@CT: Why does RC->chesskid work, but not me->mastina? Both work under the same logic there but you're only espousing one way. Also, for someone who townreads RC, I feel like you should be more concerned about RC blowing up on chess-scum.

Oh yeah that's an option too I guess. Honestly I just want the RC/Chess thing done with Idgaf anymore. Are you TRing him now? I still need to catch up.

I have never scumread RC. This has come up a lot, but I've never voted him or put him in my scum list.

[xRECKONERx]

Also Reckoner is probably in fact town

Me: Happy to have you on board!

Elect: Reckoner

Here you go. Don't hammer right now but show of faith. I think you're town.
And yeah, get ready to get completely fucked.

Narrator: He shouldn't have been.

[xRECKONERx]

@RC: I honestly don't know what to say about your case on Hindu. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm saying I'm notoriously awful about reading people who are in my blind spot and Hindu is there right now. I also don't like that your whole case is predicated on chesskid being scum, because I'm not sure that tracks with me either.

I've asked Keely for thoughts and he's going to do a huge ISO dive on Hindu today and let me know his thoughts. I'll report back later.

[xRECKONERx]

raybells was your "gut townread" on hindu fake? regardless im always down for a wagon on him

VOTE: hindu

the responsible thing to do here would be to follow up on my reck pressure because im not entirely satisfied with where that went but the general mood of this game has kind of killed my interest in the game, my team's morale in general is kind of shitty, i'm still sick, and this table has just gotten progressively worse for me to enjoy (raybells is absolutely fine btw contrary to popular opinion) so that will probably come a bit later. it is important though because there's only one scum in reck/hindu here imo and ive had that read since like page 5

team has been avoiding this game because of how miserable it is but fwiw eddie has been following the circlejerk to some extent and thinks mastina is obvious town now that shes been generating content beyond The Great Eight (he has a lot of experience with her as far as I'm aware, hydraing and games alike) and thinks that reck/chess is more likely to net scum but isnt really sure which he'd lynch (probably chess out of the two).

im just going to put chesskid on ignore at this point though i dont know why i even bothered interacting with him or taking any of his posts seriously

this game tho is basically

ive tried writing up more constructive posts responding to the reck/chesskid/raybells/mastina circlejerk earlier today as it happened (you may have even seen me online reading along!) but every time i try i just feel stupid so thats always nice

Mmmm

If Hindu's town this is scum

Note to self to come back to this later

[xRECKONERx]

No but actually I do want to talk to reck about it.

I don't mind you taking hider though.

So you would or would not vote ck3 today

Talk to me about what?

[xRECKONERx]

If I'm not getting hider deal is off

I could've maybe entertained the lynch on Hindu if we talked about it enough because it would get him out of my blindspot and cover my ass just in case I was being pocketed by him

But not without hider. And even then, probably not until Keely does a rundown. And even then, dependent on how strongly Keely feels about his conclusion.

Also RC I would ask you to take a look at how easy and loveydovey it is on your side of the playing field to get anyone to vote any of me/chesskid/Hindu and get everyone to collaborate

If you're town, that should be a big ass giant red flag for you. Way too much collaboration. There's scum in your midst.

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah I read katyu as p scum atm but I know there's no way RC is agreeing to compromise lynch katyu so we'll need to figure something else out

Just that one phrase you quoted set me off so hard as being horse shit and forced reads to make up for a scum slot
Historically when I've played in Team Mafia, people tend to tryhard the town games and if someone draws scum on your team, you wind up having to kinda force reads from your teammates because it's harder to motivate people to seriousread a scumgame

IMO that quote re: eddie reads exactly like a forced read

That whole Katyu post is gross
- slimy justification of jumping on the easy Hindu wagon while leaving the door open to also jump back to me
- lots of hollow whining and complaining about the mood of the game to pad out "content" (and bc all the cool kids are doin it) [nothing about this seems genuine]
- pointing at her own posts going "see everyone!!! ive been consistent in my reads since page 5!!!" which is actually a thing scum THINK looks town but in practice isn't actually town, bc town reads evolve more organically
- more whining about the mood of the game, this time on behalf of her team
- forced bullshit read from eddie on mastina (oh how convenient, the person you're trying to buddy reads them as town as well!!)
- appeal to authority on eddie's behalf (oh he, like, is totally a stable genius, and, like, really experienced with mastina)
- more complaining about the state of the game, this time specifically chesskid [fair, but that's 3 times in one post]
- more complaining about the state of the game! time #4 in a single post!
- excuses for not actually having better content ("I tried I promise please believe me!")

my RC town read makes way more sense. I think Katyu is scum trying to get into RC's blindspot bigly

VOTE: Katyu

[xRECKONERx]

Also RC I would ask you to take a look at how easy and loveydovey it is on your side of the playing field to get anyone to vote any of me/chesskid/Hindu and get everyone to collaborate
If you're town, that should be a big ass giant red flag for you. Way too much collaboration. There's scum in your midst.

I'm back later but this sounded as if Reckoner knew for sure that RadiantCowbells was town.
However, if my gut about it is wrong, it's something we should definitely remember.

I have literally been reading RC as town for 95% of this game now please keep up

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah I read katyu as p scum atm but I know there's no way RC is agreeing to compromise lynch katyu so we'll need to figure something else out

Just that one phrase you quoted set me off so hard as being horse shit and forced reads to make up for a scum slot
Historically when I've played in Team Mafia, people tend to tryhard the town games and if someone draws scum on your team, you wind up having to kinda force reads from your teammates because it's harder to motivate people to seriousread a scumgame

IMO that quote re: eddie reads exactly like a forced read

That whole Katyu post is gross
- slimy justification of jumping on the easy Hindu wagon while leaving the door open to also jump back to me
- lots of hollow whining and complaining about the mood of the game to pad out "content" (and bc all the cool kids are doin it) [nothing about this seems genuine]
- pointing at her own posts going "see everyone!!! ive been consistent in my reads since page 5!!!" which is actually a thing scum THINK looks town but in practice isn't actually town, bc town reads evolve more organically
- more whining about the mood of the game, this time on behalf of her team
- forced bullshit read from eddie on mastina (oh how convenient, the person you're trying to buddy reads them as town as well!!)
- appeal to authority on eddie's behalf (oh he, like, is totally a stable genius, and, like, really experienced with mastina)
- more complaining about the state of the game, this time specifically chesskid [fair, but that's 3 times in one post]
- more complaining about the state of the game! time #4 in a single post!
- excuses for not actually having better content ("I tried I promise please believe me!")

my RC town read makes way more sense. I think Katyu is scum trying to get into RC's blindspot bigly

VOTE: Katyu

page topping this so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle, this is important

[xRECKONERx]

I'm really tired of in-game content being overridden by DAE TEAM ASSESSMENT WOULDNT TAKE MAFIA???

WIFOM exists
Mind games exist

That line of logic literally only leads to sadness and when we have ACTUAL GAME CONTENT to analyze we need to stop that shit

[xRECKONERx]

I can't imagine how Katyusha could be scum at all. Have you checked her interaction with me which happened a couple of hours ago? Would a scum keep on interacting in a situation like that? With a player who's not even among'st the most important ones?

I think scum also tend to think noise = content = townieness so yes I do think scum would interact for the sake of interacting

[xRECKONERx]

@chess: I wasn't even gonna check this game tonight because my team warned me it's you v RC again but Shea won't shut up saying you claimed Elli made a program that analyzes meta and Shea has been working on a similar program and wants to know if you'll link it so he can compare his code

This is not game related

There I did it bye

[xRECKONERx]

Specifically links to where Elli describes the methodology or something

[xRECKONERx]

I'm really tired of in-game content being overridden by DAE TEAM ASSESSMENT WOULDNT TAKE MAFIA???

WIFOM exists
Mind games exist

That line of logic literally only leads to sadness and when we have ACTUAL GAME CONTENT to analyze we need to stop that shit

I don't see why team

speculation

is somehow less valid than information derived from content.

ill wait

also im skipping every post made by RC & chesskid now, i invite you all to do the same, it makes the game sane again
im not lynching chesskid but if yall wanna do it w/out me and leave me the hider be my guest
or maybe ill just hammer both at L-1 hmmmm wouldn't that be lovely

OK I've had enough of this fucking bullshit. FUCK RC AND CHESSKID. FUCK THIS GAME.

elect: CheekyTeeky

VOTE: Something_Smart

Go fuck yourselves.

i spy another sane person

Fuck off VOTE: RadiantCowbells

rapidly becoming my favorite person

@Anen: I mean that's fine and all but like if one of your scummates is in the {mastina/Reck/chesskid/RC} clusterfuck, your best move is to engage people outside of it at that point, and I think Katyu does exactly that with you. And you spell it out: it makes sense if Katyu is scum with one of the louder people. And I think they are.

anyway that's all, still prefer to lynch Katyu

im curious what switch flipped to make CT unable to bear it suddenly

you know, if the collective THIRTEEN OF US agreed to just ignore RC & chesskid then we could just keep playing mafia

[xRECKONERx]

Because thread stuff is living and can be pushed, prodded, molded, trapped, read, etc.
thread stuff is evolving constantly and can have things tested
"who would take this PM on that team" literally just becomes WIFOM the second you apply any thought to it and therefore is useless in the long run when compared to actual game stuff

[xRECKONERx]

Historically when I've played in Team Mafia, people tend to tryhard the town games and if someone draws scum on your team, you wind up having to kinda force reads from your teammates because it's harder to motivate people to seriousread a scumgame

IMO that quote re: eddie reads exactly like a forced read

Hindu and LLD?

I don't think Hindu fakes the LLD voice that well, I fully believe that sentiment came from LLD

Ok update. My team has already uldlhxlyxiy86hld used the swap and I'm not letting them down by getting a replacement. They agree on Mastina scum so I'm going to leave my vote there and prodge until this god awful day is over.

VOTE: Mastina

elect: xRECKONERx

Or this.

@CT: Have you explained somewhere why your team reads mastina as scum?

[xRECKONERx]

I don't think Hindu fakes the LLD voice that well, I fully believe that sentiment came from LLD

I wouldn't know, but he doesn't specify a reason LLD "mentioned" me and it's triggering me. Besides LLD, he just has a gut read on me. Is that valid to you?

That's true. I could see it being lost in translation. Have you tried asking him to have LLD clarify?

[xRECKONERx]

I would prefer Katyu today but if that won't happen, I'm wanting to work with Cheeky here.
RC keeps changing the deal. Constantly.

You know what?

My turn.

VOTE: mastina

[xRECKONERx]

im sorry I have so many posts

Also I do feel bad I had to invoke Elli to make this happen.

Huge blow to ego dealt.

these posts are useless and do nothing other than add to your post count

just like shut up unless you have something useful to say

I don't think Hindu fakes the LLD voice that well, I fully believe that sentiment came from LLD

I wouldn't know, but he doesn't specify a reason LLD "mentioned" me and it's triggering me. Besides LLD, he just has a gut read on me. Is that valid to you?

That's true. I could see it being lost in translation. Have you tried asking him to have LLD clarify?

I asked him to clarify why LLD mentioned me. I'm not sure if he has been on since that; I'll check.

But I've been thinking... what are the new tendencies for Team Mafia games? For scum, they refer to their teammates as justification rather than their own reads, and I think you said that. Although, I suppose they could just use the read without referencing their team, but still. CheekyTeeky's last post with the mastina voted pinged me for this reason too.

I mean, I've played in I think every Team Mafia so far? And relaying team reads and opinions is usually a huge part of it, so I don't think it's TOO out of character.
My main point in the post that started all of this was that having reads from buddies in lieu of reads yourself is more likely to come from scum in these games. Not necessarily that relaying reads from buddies is a scumtell.

[xRECKONERx]

Can you respond to the one post I've asked you to then Reck? because saying you're ignoring me and then conplaining about the posts that arent that important while ignoring the key one isn't helping either.

I need to know that upon mastina scumflip you're going to agree to lynch RC. Like, I've gone back and forth on that read 10x and I know you're townreading him at last checkin but he just has to die upon mastinascum and there can't be room for wriggling out because like hes seemed like both pants on head town and scum alternately. I expect to die N1, but think about his actions and motivations and like which world makes more sense I guess

I won't commit to mastina->RC because I really don't think RC is scum right now. It'll depend on the path we take between now and then.

[xRECKONERx]

@Anen: I mean that's fine and all but like if one of your scummates is in the {mastina/Reck/chesskid/RC} clusterfuck, your best move is to engage people outside of it at that point, and I think Katyu does exactly that with you. And you spell it out: it makes sense if Katyu is scum with one of the louder people. And I think they are.

I'll think about this later. You may have a point. But, as I said, it's not only our interaction why I townread her. Also, that namelist (did you include yourself?) are not among'st my scumreads. Plus, it's scumteam speculation, which is not a good idea on Day1. Maybe later, when we have flips.

I included myself as an example of the four way clusterfuck of loudness that has happened today. IMO it's very unlikely there isn't at least one scum among the group.

[xRECKONERx]

I am very firmly of the mindset that there is probably one scum among the loudest distraction of the day and that the other two are dancing along the edges.

Katyu's play makes perfect sense if one of the clusterfuck is scum.

Therefore, I won't commit that mastina scum means RC scum. I think it certainly causes people to take a harder look at RC. But by that point, we'd have a hider result + another night of results, hopefully, to sort stuff out. Plus a couple more flips.

I'm in no way confident or prepared to make D1 associative tell chainlynches considering the massive amount of variables between now and then.

Also, wanna make it clear: my gut is to townread Hindu after that giant defense. I think the weak ass point about "but Reck isn't pocketed because he's considering me!" is just semantics (whether I'm pocketed or not, it's the intent that matters) but it really feels genuine and town-like to me. I believe that he believes everything he's saying, even if the points aren't as salient as he'd like them to be.

[xRECKONERx]

I do agree RC can't be in LyLo because he's too dangerous as scum and wouldn't make sense to be there if he was actually town.

Although, if I'm right on mastina/Katyu, his reads are so bad that maybe scum won't kill him as a liability.

But yes generally I agree that RC can't make lylo regardless of alignment unless we have some solid results

[xRECKONERx]

More ISOs.

Creature

posts only one-liners. No real content, only reactions, but at least, some questions too. It seems to be a common knowledge (?) that he's terrible at being scum. Therefore, he must be town. I guess, this must be his townplay because if it weren't so, there would be votes on him. Still, what if he picked scum because noone expects that?
If I ignore that "common knowledge", I don't have much to say. I've seen this playstyle from townies and from scum too.

Null

.

btw this post strikes me as way too fence-sitty at this stage of the game, especially on Creature

gun to my head right now scumteam is mastina/Katyu/Anen but strongest reads are Katyu/mastina

p.edit: I've ignored all self-meta to this point and I won't listen to it as being a strong line of defense

[xRECKONERx]

(For that matter, really, people should read the fucking flowchart in full. scumastina has a formula. scumastina uses the same basic methodology literally every game, but each time uses a different plan, a different implementation of the basic formula. In that regard, scumastina is both someone who never changes her play, and yet also follows the methodology of "it only works once" and constantly changes things up. She changes the details. She changes the exact execution of how she plays. But she always fits into one basic mold of scumplay.

Why?

Because it works.

That's why. Why fix what's not broken? Scumastina has a proven track record of winning scum games, to such an extent where she finds drawing scum to be boring. She actually kinda loathes it because she knows that when she draws scum, she's going to win. She loves the thrill of the hunt. But being the hunted gives her no joy because she already knows how to trick her pursuers before they even know they need to pursue. In fact, she's so bored as scum that she feels the need to be a cheeky scumfuck in order to derive entertainment from the game.

Scumastina loves being a large ham--a cartoon villain. She will blatantly broadcast exactly why she is scum for the whole fucking world to see, and yet in spite of telling you exactly how she is going to win the game as scum, she remains uncaught because she developed the plan in such a way that the "heroes" fall into her trap when they act exactly as she predicted they would.

THAT is scumastina.

And, sure. Yeah. A town-mastina has some traits which superficially resemble a scumastina. Scumastina is a cheeky scumfuck and broadcasts why she is scum, yet receives towncred for having done so because "she wouldn't have said that if she were

actually

scum", more or less. Town mastina instead will often be objective and present arguments for why she

could

be scum--something which looks similar to scumastina being a cheeky scumfuck and saying why she IS scum--but it's never identical. I'm not quite sure I can actually explain the difference between the two; it's just something you have to see for yourself in order to get.)

scale of 1-10, how hyped are you right now finding a game-related reason to talk solely about yourself this much

[xRECKONERx]

btw how does mastina know she's under pressure??? thought she caught up from the beginning every time no exceptions?????

wow it's almost like self meta is bad!!!!!!!!!!!

[xRECKONERx]

instead of reading whatever happened in the last few pages i made a really spooky video



anyway that was fun! time to kill myself while reading this shitshow

[xRECKONERx]

And I'm not compromising because that's just pushing the ball later down the game. Chesskid literally just has to die.

I sincerely request that everyone who is voting Mastina vote myself instead. When I flip town, Mastina is treated as confirmed town for the remainder of the game.

[xRECKONERx]

What if when someone is literally, objectively playing my scumgame the same way that I do it that I can recognize it in a way that others can't?
No one recognizes me as scum when I play like this: it's literally taking candy from a baby, free wins, be super loud and controlling and people eat that shit up.
I've seen this too many times, the posture the exaggerations the fake certainty

Does it really not bother you how bad his Mastina scumcase is? How strange his interactions around the hider thing are?

Like if Chesskid is town and this is the game that I have to play then I want out of it. If Cheeky wants to play follow the chesskid and hate me for trying to contest him I don't want any part of it.

concept: humans are different

[xRECKONERx]

Let's start with where you're falling short. Human beings have personalities. You and chesskid do not have the same personalities. At all. My scumgame is certainly someone's towngame. I've seen the same kind of scumgame you're talking about. I just don't think chesskid is that kind of scum. I think he's legit thinking this way.

And I don't think his mastina case is bad. I just haven't seen it the same way he has. I think we're all in agreement that reck's a hider and I haven't paid much attention to that part of the game until recently. Especially during the spam I ignored it. I try to look at other things than mechanics because scum and town can easily appear the same when discussing those things.

I don't like this game much either but I think there's still a chance we can win. Cheeky was never on your side. She hates this game the same way I do.

ayy check out this resounding agreement

[xRECKONERx]

Literally saying he's not fucking voting me because he thinks I'm scum. Reck is saying he thought the "emptyvote" (it wasn't fucking empty, the quote I provided gave plenty enough fucking context behind why I was voting him and was just about as unambiguous as votes get) was dumb.

DUMB.

NOT SCUM.

Reck didn't think it was suspicious.
Reck didn't think it was something that was coming from scum.
Reck thought it was something which was dumb.

i did think it was scummy but also dumb otherwise i wouldnt have been fucking voting you, you nong

[xRECKONERx]

Keely thinks Hindu is scum based on ISO/meta

I don't like meta so I don't care but putting that out there

[xRECKONERx]

This excuse doesn't fly. You are stating that meta doesn't matter. Yet guess what? You can't fucking play the game without it. Because players have different playstyles. An action coming from one player might strongly indicate they are town, and yet from a different player strongly indicate they are scum.

i can and i do

[xRECKONERx]

What would you do if someone refused to remove their vote from you off the basis of, "I don't care if Reck does that every game, that's meta, I'm saying he's scum for it anyway because meta is trash"?

...What's that, you say?
I don't know about you, but personally I'd find that suspicious as fucking hell.

I'd be like "aight fam you do you, but I'm not scum" and I would try to explain why what I'm doing is town motivated instead of going

HURR HRRU;ALSKDJUF;O U SO DUMB U NO GET MY META

meta becomes useless the second somebody is aware of it.

If Reck refuses to trust in all these fucking players saying something isn't alignment indicative because all of them justify it with meta...
...Then what standard DOES he trust? My word? That's even worse because my fucking word is SELF-meta.
My stance this game?
What's to stop him from just going "I don't buy that"? (More or less anyway.)

idk like i shouldnt have to explain to you how motivations, associations, and behavior are important in mafia, so like, idk read a book or somethin i guess!

The burden of proof lies on the fucking accuser. Not the accused. Innocent until proven guilty. All these people defending me, the accused, have given reasons for the defense. Reck's accusation lacks the proof. It's a form of denial basically. He can say there's no evidence to literally everything, because "that's meta". Where does he draw the line between meta and not meta? He can draw it anywhere. So he can keep on saying the same fucking thing as his excuse to not listen to the argument.

And there is no way that attitude comes from town.

wrong, they're not accused, you are
and you haven't addressed anything ive said to you in a way that is satisfactory to me so

sit and spin, motherfucker

[xRECKONERx]

oh that image should be this

[xRECKONERx]

note mastin continuing to argue past me at the rest of the game instead of addressing me head-on

uh-ohhh!!!!!!!!!!

[xRECKONERx]

Like: I don't think this is a bus but the first thing someone said about him was that he buses as scum. My stance here is that I start the same thing tomorrow, even if Mastina is actually scum. Which is why I want me and chesskid dealt with today. Mastina doesn't bring any resolution here and there is no way that Chesskid ever gets shot.

Its why I pulled off Hindu in the first place, this really does need resolution and that's not going to happen without a lynch or a hider.

wow it's almost like you spat in my face when i offered to take hider and clear up you vs chesskid by hiding chesskid and you wouldn't play ball???

oh well, gonna get a dead mastina for it anyway, so thanks for not negotiating or being compromising

[xRECKONERx]

Okay I just moved to page 27 and noticed there are now 77 pages.
I'm literally fucking moving BACKWARDS in terms of progress compared to the thread. I'm reading the fucking game (admittedly it apparently takes me like 45 minutes per page butstill) and yet new pages are fucking appearing FASTER THAN I CAN ACTUALLY READ THEM. Because when I started, there were less than 73 pages today in spite of me being on page 23. I was less than fifty pages behind, and now I'm fifty fucking pages behind and counting, in spite of there having been almost no gaps in my catch-up aside from one or two distractions.

I think my point about the fucking spam has been proven.

oh boy guys at this rate we'll finish team mafia day one in 2019 when mastin finally catches up

[xRECKONERx]

BYF here's the thing

the people who know Mastina is town all want different things
whereas the people who are following Chesskids screaming are all on Mastina

If we can't agree on something then Mastina gets lynched at deadline, basically.

the people who want mastina hate seeing how many people are doing her work for her and defending her and giving her outs and trying to blow up momentum

we've formed tenuous trust clusters for day 1 only

i constantly reevaluate my reads

i dont lock in d1 and go "this is my read forever"

so stop being so fucking melodramatic

[xRECKONERx]

This is again transparently not town. None of this is good. It's reasons which aren't real reasons. He's not townreading chesskid off of play. He's townreading chesskid off of a bunch of miscellaneous shit which is explicitly not actually game content.

for all ur brilliance u have trouble reading eh

[xRECKONERx]

If Mastina is scum, why am I the only person who really seems to care if she lives or dies

because you and chesskid made everybody give up on fucking life

[xRECKONERx]

i am 100% okay with:
lynch mastin
RC hider
hides behind chesskid

if RC hides behind anybody else he is lynched on site

[xRECKONERx]

or were you saying ck3 gets hider

[xRECKONERx]

yep im down for it.

vote mastina, elect ck3?

[xRECKONERx]

I do not want to lynch Mastina at all but I absolutely support the other bit.

you get ck3 dead in exchange for mastina this way if mastina flips town

but it gives you the benefit of seeing mastina's flip first

[xRECKONERx]

you're insufferable

[xRECKONERx]

mastin i rlly appreciate the play by play of your life story and your artistic adventures but you're basically asking me to break team mafia rules by answering your giant rant so i won't do it, sorry muffin

And you're giving a double-standard here because you've given chesskid plenty of outs from things he otherwise would have been forced to be fucking held accountable for, and you've no issue letting OTHERS give YOU outs. Like Hinduragi on you, or chesskid on you.

[source needed]
i havent spoken for chesskid once or defended him against a case
nice lie tho it's cute

I wonder how long this 'votepark' will last? Five pages? Ten? Twenty? Sure as fuck won't make it 30, guarantee it. I wonder how long it will last. The amount of time is best measured in hours. 1? 2? 3? 4? 12? I'd be impressed with 24, but I can near-guarantee it won't make it to 36.

that's bc i voted chesskid to make him shut up long enough to get other people to post and stop bitching about chess/rc posting too much

i am sure you can read context, you're just choosing not to

[xRECKONERx]

i dont know if i want creature to have it

and if bartering the hider gets an actual mastina lynch then fuck it, the lynch is more important than the hider

[xRECKONERx]

@cheeky: What made you flip around on RC & co so suddenly? I think I asked this already but didnt get a respond

[xRECKONERx]

mastin w/ all this relevant 40-50 pages ago content

[xRECKONERx]

I clearly don't care about your reads or I wouldn't be on mastina, but thanks for the input.

[xRECKONERx]

I think that even if you think that she's scum her intentionally avoiding engaging with the present is a ridiculous thing for her to do.
Who is your scumteam?

except she claims she doesn't engage with the present and always always always catches up first every single time
why are you picking & choosing your meta

[xRECKONERx]

i see. i thought you were talking to screenplay based on your last interaction

i was pointing it out to show how meta can be used as a reason for people to hide behind useless play and add nothing to the game but w/e

im not reading mastin as scum because she's still catching up

[xRECKONERx]

@chess why is GL town

[xRECKONERx]

i dont care about EP because a replacement is probably coming

[xRECKONERx]

Because if he's scum he's presumably just claimed a cop guilty on a townie.

Pedit: none of those were hard stances.

doesn't that just prove chesskid's point that you haven't taken many hard stances or am i misreading the post in question

Scum lurking would in fact be a valid strategy! Too bad the narrative I was employing it relies on the idea that I fucking was actually around during times that I can literally easily prove I was not.

I even fucking was posting on a different forum during that time (the site I host comics on has a forum and because I was beginning to host my new comic My Life, I made posts on the forum during that time); I prefer to never ever ever fucking link to that forum (it's my art life and like I said I like to keep my art life and my mafia life entirely separated from one another nowadays) but I can literally prove that I unambiguously was in fact fucking posting on that forum and easily show that it was me if need be to prove that I was not fucking around mafiascum. And this? Not even fucking against site rules; the only fucking thing stopping me is that I don't want to taint my art life by associating it with my mafia life.

can you stop telling us your life fucking story every time you post jesus goddamn christ

[xRECKONERx]

concept: what if hindu/mastina are scum together

and hindu is trying to pocket me/chesskid with the town reads but also won't commit to voting his scumbuddy

[xRECKONERx]

not reading this tonight

[xRECKONERx]

I expect a lot of flak postgame regardless of anyone's alignments and I accept getting lynched if Mastina is in fact scum but I would have absolutely no regrets about what I've done.
I think that Mastina has been objectively out of her scum range. I have asked everyone who thinks that she is scum to actually give me reasons and I have got nothing.

What I do have is a player who is not used to being told no by people who came up with a magic 100% scumread tell and started screaming about a guilty when they couldn't get the wagon going.
And as a matter of principle that's not something I am willing to be a party to. Actions should have consequences and I doubt there'll be a lot of games where Chesskid will actually face any.
At the risk of being called out for preparing for his town flip, whether he is scum or town has been immaterial to me for a long time, I'm just not okay with his play.

I am the poster child of 'welp im rc' and this game is many notches below what I would ever stoop to.

learn to regret and grow

[xRECKONERx]

If Chess and Mastina are both town I take negative responsibility for that situation because I've gone out of my way to try to minimize the damage that that situation would do.
Don't pin any of this on me

You literally fuelled the spamfest. If you hsd stopped responding to Chess after you don't made your points into of whatever it was then it wouldn't have happened, or it wouldn't have been as bad.

I don't think this is at all a fair characterization of anything. Assuming they're both town, was I supposed to just let Chesskid spam the thread into lynching Mastina?
What if it was you getting tunneled like crazy, would you not expect me to do the same for you?

check out this prime ate & emotional manipulation???

i dont even know on RC anymore. he's all over the place.

btw just here to say: 0% chance chesskid goes this hard to get himself lynched in a trade if he's scum. 0%.

[xRECKONERx]

why can't we lynch hindu and let me hide behind mastina

my team is increasingly more & more sure that mastina/hindu just makes so much fucking sense

if im right on mastina then BONUS POINTS i dont have to come home and consider putting a gun in my mouth every time i have to check this game

and if im wrong then BONUS POINTS i dont have to worry about screaming people down about mastina scum anymore.

we're at almost 100 pages on day 1. fuck this game.

[xRECKONERx]

also want to say thank you EP for breath of fresh air catchup posts

i think EP is town because I think the "I can't shake what if Reck is just coasting as scum" thought is pretty reasonable coming from his position even though I obviously disagree with it and I think he's applying the right amount of scrutiny

Hopefully I can kill myself on scum tonight and then it'll clear that right up and then I can not read this game anymore

p.edit: 100% yes policy lynch me if i dont go on mastina. like 10000000% there's no way i would choose anything else it's fucking bad for my sanity at this point

[xRECKONERx]

tldr on hindu is that it makes sense for him to be scum who is trying to pocket me/chess while also refusing to vote anywhere to remain cautious + he isn't doing any actual scumhunting

and he's in my blind spot so im not in any situation to argue against it because it'd be bias.

lynch hindu, give me hider, let me sort out mastin

for today, for tomorrow, for a better america

VOTE: Hindu

[xRECKONERx]

Mastina is dead once I'm dead and that doesn't take a hider guilty to happen. Hider needs to get RC because he's tougher to lynch.

RC isn't scum w/ mastina, nope, if they are this is terrible play and I think RC is way better than that and would've found a way to bus mastina earlier

I'm fine to be proven wrong but I'm not on board with RC/mastina being scum together but I am on board with Hindu/mastina

[xRECKONERx]

Reck no. Look how HAPPY RC is to agree to that deal

after cancelling 50 others.

He knows it's gg if he gets hider guiltied. Mastina is already living dead.

no, mastina isn't, because if mastina is scum and you go today and they kill off another anti-mastina voice overnight it's entirely possible that in 3:10 the scum just fake a guilty or force a lynch somewhere else

you have no way to actually enforce your "if i die lynch mastina tomorrow"

you're town im not actively lynching town

[xRECKONERx]

REPOSTING THE PLAN

Master Plan

• 1. Everyone who is pending (you all got nice personal messages, please answer them!) checks in that they will be good sheep after my lynch
  
• 2. Creature/Reck/Cheeky Teeky is elected, I literally don't care.
  
• 3. Wagon me to L-2
  
• 4. Wait for me to post (this is probably the most important step!)
  
• 5. =================[]

i dont consent

[xRECKONERx]

they won't

i don't care if you flip TOWN WHO KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT THE GAME 100% MOD CONFIRMED people will be fucking idiots. this day is proof of that.

not on board. youll have to get 8 minus me

[xRECKONERx]

Mastina doesn't need a hide to die. All she need is me to flip town and then she's instantly confirmed scum.

learn what confirmed means and how easily people will back down
also consider the proposition that people are just agreeing with you to get a lynch on you and end the fucking dumb madness and they dont actually trust your reads

[xRECKONERx]

no, if mastina isn't scum I'm convinced all 4 of us are town honestly

[xRECKONERx]

but that's right now with no flips

[xRECKONERx]

Ok ok ok ok
RECK

can we give the hider to hindu and have him divebomb RC

yeah until he is scum, doesn't use it, and claims to have divebombed RC anyway?

[xRECKONERx]

thats fine that clears RC and guarantees he lives and then he can just lynch him.

if hindu/rc are scum together then it doesn't clear rc hm

[xRECKONERx]

mastina.

Unless we lynch mastina and give chesskid hider to sort out RC.

[xRECKONERx]

Unless we lynch mastina and give chesskid hider to sort out RC.

Nope, not happening.
If Chesskid's getting hider I'm choosing the lynch.

what if, wait for it, i don't listen to you? and 7 other people don't as well?

@ EVERYONE NOT NAMED RC OR CHESSKID

:
I'm most interested in lynching mastina today.
Then, I would lynch Hinduragi.

Thoughts?

[xRECKONERx]

Can I hear the case on Hinduragi in brief please?

uhhh basically:
- no active scumhunting in first 30 or so posts
- all posts since then have been defensive or just have no conviction behind them
- behavior towards me/chesskid could be an attempt to pocket
- hard townreading me/ck3 but refusing to vote mastina could point to wishywashy scum play
- keely did an iso dive and said hindu is way more verbose as scum and wants people to read these two gamesto compare the playstyle (i dont care about meta but keely asked me to include this)

[xRECKONERx]

- keely did an iso dive and said hindu is way more verbose as scum

Did you mean town?

no, he thinks his wording here matches scumplay for w/e that means

again, i havent looked at the meta case bc idc

[xRECKONERx]

Ok so lynch Mastina and anyone hider bombs RC on scumflip

Or lynch chesskid and hider bombs RC

I'll hammer this.

Reck are you down?

id do lynch mastina > hider bombs RC and im even fine w/ chesskid being the hider there

tbh i trust him more than myself to actually hide RC in that scenario

[xRECKONERx]

why are we giving hider to the most townread person in the game CT

[xRECKONERx]

why are we giving hider to the most townread person in the game CT

Because I can trust him to hide behind town. If we lynch mastina we don't need the hider to die or be leashed.

when mastina flips scum we absolutely want the hider on rc.

this is the issue

just bc mastina dies doesn't mean we don't want more info and we need to play fast & loose with the life of whoever has the hider for that

[xRECKONERx]

if mastina flips scum ill hide RC ok

[xRECKONERx]

id still do hindu

ill do whichever deal out of {Lynch Hindu, I hide behind mastina} or {Lynch mastina, chesskid hides behind RC} gets 8 support first

[xRECKONERx]

hmmm probably not today? GL maybe but i really donto wanna go too deep down the rabbit hole

[xRECKONERx]

hider less important than lynching scumreads

[xRECKONERx]

i dont think rc is scum boo

[xRECKONERx]

holy shit guys how is nobody wanting to lynch Hindu after the spamstorm

[xRECKONERx]

id still do hindu

ill do whichever deal out of {Lynch Hindu, I hide behind mastina} or {Lynch mastina, chesskid hides behind RC} gets 8 support first

fine.

i still think it's mastina but w/e

[xRECKONERx]

you chesskid

[xRECKONERx]

yes

[xRECKONERx]

Would you mind leaving your vote on GuiltyLion over the weekend?

Yeah, sure. Just remember that I do not think Reck is town. This is reckscum. Disregard everything I said about recktown before.

Unvote; Vote: GL

lmfao

okay bud

[xRECKONERx]

that swap from "RECK IS SO TOWN" to "this is reckscum"

real scum btw

[xRECKONERx]

no because my team can't stop posting it and talking about it either

[xRECKONERx]

Reck, how sure are you that Hindu is actually scum?

I mean, I can see it for sure and he's my secondary scumread (some of that is tied to mastina being scum as well because it just makes so much sense, though I hate to use associative tells as a reason to lynch D1)

But Keely is like uberdupersuper sure based on iso/meta, so I took his leap of faith and started looking and went "huh, yeah, that is really scummy"

tldr the only person id call more likely to be scum would be mastina