Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie! That's a Wrap!

[Black]

Black i know you're an addict why haven't you posted yet

I haven't posted because I'm also addicted to video games and food

VOTE: TSQ

[Black]

Fresh blood. Yum! Say hi. I don't bite. Other things well...

Hi kitty! A little biting is ok...

[Black]

I feel like I've met some of you before... But I can't remember.

Nope. Definitely not me...

[Black]

Guys I think FB thinks he's the main character

[Black]

Dunnstral feels really defensive and on edge on page 3

[Black]

And now I'm here

[Black]

Just a friendly note to all that I'm not around much on weekends but as TSQ said I'm kinda addicted to this game so a lot of the time I can't help myself

[Black]

Thats not right, you shouldn't be here.
You should be there.

Are you in the play or directing it?

[Black]

In this setup, there are no true power roles. Everyone is equal. Even if you die with a power role, someone else may randomly get it the next day. How does everyone feel about a day one massclaim?

Honestly I have no clue if this is a good idea or not. My first thought is wouldn't the information benefit wolves more than town?

[Black]

Dunnstral is asking questions and means business, like that. Dragon entered sounding kind of aggressive? Not sure what to make of that yet.

I'm kinda curious about this. I felt like Dunnstal entered a little aggressive. Did you not see it that way?

[Black]

This seems like kind of a busy work question.

Just because you don't see value in the question doesn't mean there isn't any

[Black]

It did not feel like that to me, no. It looked more like they did not care about RVS and moved straight into the game proper.

I would argue Dragon didn't seem to care about RVS much either. I feel like both of their entrances could be considered "aggressive with a disregard for RVS" so I just wanted to see why Dunnstral got the pass

[Black]

I see value in the question but I don't think I see it in the way you asked it. Obviously Feysal does not agree because they said so in the very post you're quoting so I am not sure what useful information you actually are trying to provoke, unless you're trying to get them to change their mind in which case its a pretty half assed attempt at that as well.

I wanted them to look into the behaviors and tell me why one is aggressive and the other isn't. Can you let things progress?

[Black]

They didn't say I was aggressive, they seemed to suggest the opposite, no? I believe aggressive was your own choice of words.

Yep, this is what I said

[Black]

It was a difference in tone. Dunnstral was asking questions, but Dragon seemed angry at Firebringer for the act and voted them for it.

Meh. I feel like Dunnstral felt a little angry in his tone, but we can agree to disagree

[Black]

Your only loss was a town game correct?

Correct

And a meta read from someone I don't know? I'm interested

[Black]

Who is your townblock?

Like who I think is the most town? I barely have reads

[Black]

I didn't say locktown. Town for now is fine.

Is it bad that I don't really townread anyone yet? Everyone is still kinda null with a little meh thrown in

[Black]

Might as well explain where I was going with this, since I just learned my idea would not work. I wondered if the mafia would be told which amnesiac roles had been assigned to them, even if they would not get to use them. But I asked, and they are told, so no such luck. Would have been too good to be true.

Yeah I'm not vibing with a massclaim

[Black]

@Black How do you feel about Feysal for proposing it?

Can you give me your mehs?

My gut is to not like it but I think wolf and town could propose a massclaim, especially with the explanation in 146. But part of me wonders if Feysal would have ever brought up 146 if people went along with the idea

I'll tell you my mehs when they upgrade to hmmmmms

[Black]

I just want reads from someone with her pulse on the meta.

I mean if you wanna talk Newbie games I can help you out

[Black]

What do you think of Feysal proposing the massclaim Titus?

[Black]

There's something black hasn't asked me yet which I expected her to and that makes me suspicious of her and its a big part of why I've been giving her a hard time.

I generally have no clue. I'm high, is that a valid excuse?

What do you think of Feysal proposing the massclaim Titus?

I have definite thoughts on Feysal's alignment...I want solid thoughts (even if weak) to bounce off from.

My weak thought is that Feysal is meh

I'd also warn you (@titus) not to underestimate her. Black isn't your typical newbie. At the risk of inflating her ego she's really quite good.

I'm quite shit at town games though. The proof is around. Even if I sometimes reach the conclusion at the end I take a pretty convoluted way to get there

[Black]

Before team mafia started we had a conversation where I said I thought I would be pretty good at reading you since I've modded or played in most of your on site games.

I said at the time I would tell you if we shared a PT.

But I expected you to bring it up because if you're town you'd want to get town read. If you're scum though you'd have a really good reason to not ask me about my meta thoughts on you.

Ahhhh. I see. Well I don't expect anyone to have strong reads one way or the other this early and I also think it's kinda scummy to go looking for towncred like that. Feels desperate

[Black]

Black, I think is just that good. If only she'd talk to me.

I'm being swept away for the night. Let's chat tomorrow or Monday?

[Black]

They wanted Feysal to answer and what you were asking was why they were asking Feysal that question. I feel that it is fair for them to say that they want Feysal to answer first

This is correct btw. Feysal pinged me with the massclaim a little and I thought it was weird and slightly contradictory how they interpreted the Dragon/Dunn entrances

Shea I have nothing wrong with you asking about the motives behind my questions but I can't really explain them sometimes without ruining the whole purpose of the question. And I don't really think that's an unusual take to have

[Black]

I'm checking in before bed so I don't have the motivation to read the FB wall right now

I want to look more into FB vs Feysal/Dunn tomorrow because I'm getting mixed feelings here

[Black]

Can you explain why this question was such a case?

It wasn't a case, it was just a question based on an associative I didn't like. I also wanted to gauge what Feysal considers aggressive behavior because it doesn't seem to align with my own definition. I saw a discrepancy there and wanted to explore it

[Black]

This seems like kind of a busy work question.

Just because you don't see value in the question doesn't mean there isn't any

I see value in the question but I don't think I see it in the way you asked it.

Obviously Feysal does not agree because they said so in the very post you're quoting

so I am not sure what useful information you actually are trying to provoke, unless you're trying to get them to change their mind in which case its a pretty half assed attempt at that as well.

This isn't true. Feysal didn't comment on Dunn's attitude really. They said Dunn was asking questions and getting business done or something. That's taking about what Dunn is doing, not the manner in which he's doing it

Then they said Dragon was aggressive and they weren't sure how to feel about that, which felt like it was kinda shading Dragon while giving Dunn a pass. So I wanted Feysal to comment on Dunn's attitude beyond his activity, because I thought Dunn was aggressive and I was curious why Feysal didn't comment on it

[Black]

Talking*

Time for sleepy

[Black]

Do you think I am desperate?

No, I think you misunderstood. I feel like me running to Shea asking to be townread would've felt desperate and he was saying it's sus that I didn't do that

[Black]

I mean while its true that maybe expecting you to explicitly ask "please tell me about your meta thoughts on me" isn't exactly 100% fair, I would say that it was fair to expect you to be somewhat curious about what my read of you would be, and you've felt pretty fundamentally uncurious about that to me, and also kind of fundamentally uncurious about my alignment as well in our interactions so far.

Like I said I really don't expect anyone to have strong reads one way or the other. Of course I'm curious how you read me but I don't feel the need to check in with you about it. I fully expect you to come to me when you have a read you want to discuss

Also re: your alignment, don't assume that just because I'm not saying something doesn't mean I'm not thinking about it

[Black]

I kinda get where he's coming from. You didn't attempt to sort my professed meta read on you, which is odd given we've never played together.

How would I even sort that? I got no pings from you saying that

You said you had a read on me but wanted to wait for people to talk, then you started asking me questions. I just assumed you would tell me your read when you were ready

[Black]

Not even curiosity?

Of course I'm curious. Wanna share?

So much possibilities to sort and you're not even trying

I don't think it's fair to assume I'm not trying just because I haven't reached a conclusion about your posts yet

[Black]

Voting titus is literally like the first thing I did in the interaction. I find it incredibly hard to believe LLD missed that.

I was thinking this too. I'm not sure if LLD would be this lazy with the read if Dunn were scum. I think it's more likely that LLD would be particularly careful with her summary of the game if she were feeding Dunn fake scumreads

[Black]

Feels like lip service. What are you doing to sort me?

I don't think I've put much effort into sorting yet. I kinda let things build and develop in the early stages of the game and if I see something I do or don't like I'll usually comment on it, though I do keep some stuff close to me. My style early on is more asking questions and getting a feel for people rather than hypersolving, and I will say this game starting on the weekend has pretty much made me want to only live post and answer some questions directed at me so far

Do you think Feysal is scum btw? Our conversation about the massclaim didn't really go anywhere

[Black]

LLD did miss that actually but it's an empty quote vote and you are being soft on Titus and letting her get away while FB and I were dueling.

Attempting to make it look like LLD is not reading the game is not a townie response to pressure

and

it's a discredit that no one can veritably prove

. In the text you quoted above LLD has made points about specific interactions to

it is pretty clear she is reading

.

Just curious, are these your thoughts or LLD's?

Having our teammates play the game too is going to get hella confusing. Now I have to read 40+ people? XD

[Black]

Guys I re-read FB vs Dunn and honestly I've been scumreading both, but now I want to individually TR each one of them for making a good push on a scummy slot.
I'm honestly confused.

Can you elaborate on the Dunn SR?

[Black]

I only have one townread and its you Titus.

FB can you explain what this read was about and how has it aged since then? I noticed Titus kinda skipped over it and never asked you about it

@Titus - it seems like you think I should care more about people's reads on me so I'm wondering if you cared about this read on you at all

[Black]

Nah you don’t have to.
If a slot posts two different opinions just vote them and say this buzzword “cognitive dissonance”

[Black]

LLD's

I'm wondering if we can set a game standard where we tag our teammates thoughts if we are going to include them in the game. I feel like it's important to know which thoughts are yours and which thoughts are your teammates

I'm wondering how the thread feels about this and if this is an unfair request?

[Black]

My patience is wearing thin Black.

I don't know what you want from me

I am fine with FB TRing me

Why didn't you want to know what the TR was about? Or did you already know?

Who is right in their read on you? Dunn or Shea?

Dunn, and I think that's pretty obvious if you've been reading my posts as closely as I think you have been

Where are the reads I was promised?

Where did I promise you reads?

Also, can I get an answer to my question in 298?

[Black]

Titus, I'm not sure I'm vibing with this behavior. You seem really focused on getting reads from people (121, 137, 151, 159, 168, 194, 311) while simultaneously refusing to give reads (74, 143, 145, 171, 211)

Idk what this says about your alignment, but it feels off. Maybe that's just your playstyle? But the part that I'm not getting is you seem annoyed when others won't give you reads or explain why they don't have many

Why can comments like these not apply to other people:

Nope. I have quite a few gut town and scumreads. Just not playing dominate the thread.

I don't want to say my Dunn thoughts as I want organic game state.

When the time is right.

ninja'd by you Titus. Will respond separately

[Black]

If you've put no effort in, how can you say your questions are doing anything? Second, this posting doing nothing but over explained is a hallmark of your scumgame.

I have put effort in, just not much. It's the weekend. You should be happy you've gotten this much from me!

My questions are to help me solve and sort. They are doing stuff for me even if they aren't for you

[Black]

Show me proof you're doing more than busiwork and not a deer in the headlights.

Deer in the headlights? Where is this vibe even coming from?

[Black]

Also, can I get an answer to my question in 298?

[Black]

Second, this posting doing nothing but over explained is a hallmark of your scumgame.

Do you really think I overexplained my approach to the game there? It was like 3 sentences. You asked me what I'm doing to sort you and I gave you an honest answer

[Black]

Don't worry Black, I will give us significantly more time to play before catching you

How courteous!

[Black]

Black, I straight up don't tolerate people pumping me while refusing to give info themselves.

What is pumping? And I think I have given some information already and it's disingenuous of you to say I haven't. Your issue seems to be I'm not giving you the exact info you want, and I already explained why I haven't

I have asked you for ANY fixed positions for ages and I keep getting responses that they later.

You asked me for my "townblock" on page 6. I'm not the type of player to have many reads that early, let alone a block of them

I'll share my thoughts when I feel like it but I definitely don't respond well to people demanding them

[Black]

Ok Drixx.

You want engagement.

You Brick and Dunn is my current theory.

(look shea I did it!)

[Black]

I want more from Pink Ball and Blue

PB seems like they are saying stuff without saying anything, and Blue's reaction to Dunn in 262 feels a bit defensive. I'm not a fan of him interpreting Dunn's 75 as a scumread when all Dunn says is Blue seems awkward and he's not sure where Blue is coming from

VOTE: Blue aka the inferior color

[Black]

Pink, Blue, Black... where is redff?

[Black]

titus says they need more of me, you have it. now I need more of you

Good luck here

FA seems pretty townie in her entrance. The catch up and questions feel really good

[Black]

ssume I’m V/LA until tonight

Well it seems like you are keeping up with the thread at least so I'll be looking forward to your thoughts later. No rush!

[Black]

IDK, for my team at least I am just posting whatever I want to, and then my teammates give me feedback etc.

Same. I thought about assigning them cool colors and having them play though

Aureal: whew Black is so townie. Like unbelievably so

CSF: yeah I agree tbh, and she is so good at being town, idk why she thinks she's not

Rad: I like eggs

[Black]

Also, can I get an answer to my question in 298?

Check up.

Do you think Fey is scum? I'm sorry if I missed your answer to this

[Black]

I think titus is town.

Why?

[Black]

No. Scum usually doesn't propose a massclaim the way Feysal did.

How do they usually propose it?

[Black]

Black reads on my slot yet?

I like what you are putting down so far. I think we agreed a little on the Fey slot earlier. I don't really understand a couple of your TRs, like why is PB town? Overall I think you are progressing the game in a good way

[Black]

He should see Black is doing filler

What type of content would you like from me? I feel like I'm doing just fine tbh

[Black]

I can attest to having the described scum mindset often as town fwiw
It comes more from a place of feeling like I'll be ignored if I don't present my most pressing thoughts appropriately/just trying to find the most effective time and means of saying what I want to say

I want to chime in and say I share this anxiety too, but mine actually does come from not wanting to seem scummy. Yes, town worries about seeming scummy too and idk where the perception comes from that they don't

[Black]

I think Shea is being a little unfair to PB in that exchange but I'm also a little sus of PB so I like the pressure

[Black]

Will be catching up on other stuff when I get to work

[Black]

Reads. Solid positions, like the last few times I have asked.

Why are my reads not good enough? If it's because the positions aren't solid enough then you're going to have to deal with it because I'm rarely going to be confident enough in my reads to take solid stances in the first 24 hours of a game. If it's because you don't agree with the reads then we can discuss why and figure out where the disconnect is

Here are my most solid positions even though I wouldn't trust myself standing on these:

Dunn is probably my top TR. Originally I was a little skeptical of his entrance but I think his responses to pressure have been really good
Fey was also someone I was unsure about early because the way they danced around the massclaim and the slight overreaction to FB voting for Dunn. However I think Fey vs. FB looks a little TvT looking back over it and I lean town on them
Which means I also lean town on FB
I think Dragon has been pretty townie too. Add my name to the list
I liked FA's entrance and her thoughts felt like they were coming from a genuine solvey place, however I started to doubt that after reading some of what Klick put down about her. Klick has a couple of good points about why he thinks FA is scummy here even if they aren't very strong. Like they seem like things that would make Klick sus of FA but not necessarily things that could get others onboard. FA's whole reaction to the Klick push was to discredit it and then jump on Dragon for following it and I feel like this could be interpreted as her going for an easier target
I lean town with Klick. I think his posting always gives me town vibes though so I'm cautious here
I'm not sure how I feel about Shea or Titus
I need to read over kuribo, GiF, and Drixx because I can't recall anything off the top of my head about these slots
I think Pink Ball and Blue are the two players that are the scummiest to me atm. These are weak reads but I don't like what I've seen from them so far

[Black]

Firebringer is known for his trolling. When I saw that, my thought was pretty much "Ugh, is he actually scum and trolling us right now?" I did not actually know he liked playing as scum, only that he was capable of being bold when he was.

I had very similar thoughts at the beginning of Hollow Knight. It was my first game playing with FB and he claimed scum at the beginning. I thought he was doing it for the epic postgame bragging rights if he ended up winning but nope, he was just that bold as Town

[Black]

Bella has you as her strongest townread

Would it be weird to ask Bella to explain this read? I just did a quick ISO and I'm not seeing it

[Black]

I want more from Pink Ball and Blue

PB seems like they are saying stuff without saying anything, and Blue's reaction to Dunn in 262 feels a bit defensive. I'm not a fan of him interpreting Dunn's 75 as a scumread when all Dunn says is Blue seems awkward and he's not sure where Blue is coming from

VOTE: Blue aka the inferior color

Dunnstral said in 198, which I also quoted, that they thought I was Mafia citing 75.

(Of course, this was before they recanted the scumread in 271

I think I somehow overlooked this. I didn't see #198 so that's my bad. With that in mind your post feels less like an overreaction tbh

[Black]

Gun to your head is me v blue snakelet svs tvs or tvt

Is it bad that I can see all 3? I'd probably go tvs if someone had a gun to my head

[Black]

No I'm unsure if the attack is genuine or not which is why I asked.

I'm not usually the guy scum goes after in the early game so that actually makes me tend to want to town read pushes on me early. But I don't know anything about blue from a meta sense and more importantly I don't know if they know anything about me.

I can see it as a genuine attack because I also didn't really like your exchange with PB. I just didn't reach the same conclusion that Blue did in regards to your alignment over it

[Black]

I've played in one game with Blue and he was scum. I haven't seen anything yet in regards to meta that can be used for or against him

[Black]

Every minute PB does not come in and say reads we stray further and further from god by the way.

STD completely MIA also.

Well StD is v/la

PB had an excuse for yesterday but I agree that if we don't get something today things will get a little unholy in here

[Black]

I think my spiciest scum read is feysal.

They say a lot of words that don't mean a lot.

Do you think Fey v FB is tvs or svs?

[Black]

I am feeling better about you with this real timing too.

Why? I don't feel like I'm doing anything different

[Black]

I was live posting this weekend a little too

[Black]

I'm reading

[Black]

You seem more curious.

Ok...

That reminds me of Titus saying I wasn't curious about her meta read on me even though I clearly said I was interested :\

Maybe I'm just out of my element on the weekend

[Black]

Maybe teaching you to post gifs was a mistake.

[Black]

I am feeling better about you with this real timing too.

Why? I don't feel like I'm doing anything different

You seem more curious.

I'm thinking about this more and I wonder if it has anything to do with me being sober. I don't smoke much on weekdays due to work and when I'm stoned I overthink everything I write. I'm usually stoned for the majority of the weekend XD

[Black]

It's a big part of my town read of titus that it felt like she was picking up similar vibes from your posting as I was which was that you seemed to just be here and posting and not actually trying to discover my alignment while we were talking.

Regarding this, why are you assuming that I wasn't trying to discover your alignment?

[Black]

Black, is the lack of contribution something you expect that comes exclusively from scum?

I understand what Shea is doing towards me, but I don't seem to get why do you want more from me in particular

What I mean is: I know I'm being scummy, so I get that I can get scumreads in a superficial level. From what I've heard about you (and from what I've seen to this point), you're not a superficial player.

I think certain scum players would handle the start of a game exactly like you did. Poking in to appear present without providing hardly anything game progressing. I'm just trying to figure out if you're that type of scum player or not

[Black]

I can't solve slots that aren't here. That's why I've been asking you for more

[Black]

From other games I’ve read with you on it, you seem to be more up to the challenge

Which one comes to mind here? I'll be happy to explain the differences

[Black]

I can't solve slots that aren't here. That's why I've been asking you for more

A slight scumread on a slot that isn’t here is taking a stance though

I never said I wouldn't take a stance. I'm not sure where the confusion is here. I didn't like your entrance and I wanted to pressure you to do more stuff to make it easier to confirm/deny my read

Re: Death Note. Can you explain how I felt like I was "up to the challenge" of finding scum there but not here?

[Black]

Here you seem to have less processing power.

Blame T-Bone for starting the game on a Saturday - I was high all weekend

I can at least understand where your read is coming from now, thanks for providing that

[Black]

@black like I need you to actually make a list of all times/instances you accuse me of "discrediting" klick. cause that's a very specifically weird word to describe our interactions as in no context I talked about what he was doing and was basically explaining what he did not see from my meta.

why did you use that word?

I read your #555 and looked over the Klick interaction again. I think "discredit" is the wrong word. It felt like you were trying to tell Klick he was wrong about you in the first post you made responding to him (491) but after looking back it reads more like you had issues with Klick's reasons (ie: copying reads, approach to the game)

[Black]

There’s a certain excitement towards you because you’re allegedly one of the best newbies this place has seen for a while.

This is false. I think I'm really good at being scum but I have

a lot

of work to do with my town game

[Black]

how is that a reason for you to scum read me - or to describe it as discredit or something like that? Are you retracting that read of yours?

I don't scumread you, I'd say you're pretty close to null atm

[Black]

And I think I understand where your read is coming too then: you have been providing a lot more than me with the same excuse I have. Seems to be you projecting on me, expecting that even if I don't have the time, I should have more presence.

Keep in mind I didn't know you didn't have time for this game when I originally sus'd you. Once you mentioned you were busy I was more than willing to give you the time you need to get your footing here

Anything else you want to talk about before you tell us what you think of other players?

[Black]

This game is weird, Mala and I both feel there's this bizarre vibe in this game where it seems like people are sidestepping me like some of y'all just don't want the smoke and hassle of arguing with me on day 1. This isn't necessarily directed at anyone in particular, more of a "general feel" of the game.

Are you someone the wolves should be afraid of?

I'll ISO you here in a little and engage with you

[Black]

When I think of kuribo I can't think of a single post but that's a me problem

[Black]

What I mean is, "Pink Ball is not contributing, must be scum" is too superficial coming from a player that I expect more. Do you think the problem here is that my expectations are too high?

Well now that you've put it this way, I think the problem here is your interpretation of my read. Like obviously "Pink ball must be scum" is you paraphrasing me but I'm not convinced on your alignment at all. It's a slight scum lean that will likely correct itself if you start doing some townie stuff moving forward

[Black]

I didn't say it directly before, but since we're both here right now: I think the player that is trying to pocket you is Titus.

What? She thinks I'm scum, isn't pocketing someone when you try to buddy them into thinking you're town? I'm not following

[Black]

can you write in two sentences why you scum read pink and blue? (color issues aside)

I didn't like how they interacted with the thread this weekend. PB felt like he was posting surface thoughts and ideas to seem present, while Blue felt a little defensive in his exchange with Dunn. There was a post I missed that makes my Blue read a little less substantial though

[Black]

Do you think that our interactions are consolidating said scumlean or are you starting to sway out of that read?

I don't really think it has changed tbh. I can see both wolf and town coming in and immediately responding to the suspicions and criticisms directly involving them. I'm wondering why you only seem to care about how Shea and I feel about you and not about the rest of the game but I don't really think it's AI yet

[Black]

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't care how either of you feel about me.

Can you explain this? I care about how people read me when I'm town

[Black]

As you said, I haven't provided anything to thread yet. Why would I care if people are reading me for my lack of contribution when I know that's going to change in the near future

That's fair

[Black]

PB can you answer 586

[Black]

Klick also was one of the people that called Dragon town early and agreed with GiF calling me town as well at a point when I hadn't really done much

@Pink Ball: Almost feels like Klick is trying to build an empire here

Are we buying Klick's explanation that it's much easier for him to find town than scum?

[Black]

"Don't play the odds, play the man"

You don't pocket everyone the same way. People pocket me by being fun so I don't want them to die, for example.

Is antagonizing you making you think that Titus is scum? Or are you in a position where you have to prove yourself to her because she has stated that you remind her of herself when she started playing this game?

Titus is scumreading you now, that doesn't mean that she will later in the game. She can slowly start agreeing with what you are saying and make it seem like a read that progressed with time. That's much more stronger than just saying "I agree with everything that Black has posted".

Maybe you don't feel this way; I think she attempted to do that, though.

Win win scenario if done right, you are subverted to focus on how you look instead of how everyone else does, while unconsciously read Titus as town because of the progression between you two.

Neither tbh. I felt the antagonizing was a bit off...like I found it weird that I was giving reads and thoughts yet she kept demanding more from me. But no one else thought this was weird so I'm just assuming this is standard zeal for her

I don't feel like it's pocketing, but me not feeling this way doesn't say much. I think there is this expectation that I'm some great Mafia player that knows everything and can spot things from a mile way. It's just not the case

[Black]

if you want to scream at me I won't report you.

Just for old times sakes.

thanks but I've found that playing that way is incredibly stressful for me and not good for my mental health

and besides I'm in a better place in life anyway than I was in 2012 during the heyday of "FUCK YOU I'LL RIP YOUR FUCKING SOUL OUT AND WIPE MY ASS WITH IT AND PUT IT BACK IN YOU 1V1 ME RIGHT NOW YOU PIG FUCKING IDIOT" etc

It sounds like I missed the glory days of MS

[Black]

No. Scum usually doesn't propose a massclaim the way Feysal did.

How do they usually propose it?

They just don't. It grabs too much attention

How does this post and “Feysal is scum” mesh together?

Hi GiF. What were your thoughts about FB's response to this question?

[Black]

I don't think my soul would be good for ass wiping tbh. It's too worn and tattered.

Shea's soul is one-ply

[Black]

I don't have the energy to fight the thread over Black.

Fight me over it then. Why am I scum? Let's hear that meta read of yours from Saturday

[Black]

Why did it take so long to ask?

Like I said, I figured you'd tell me when you're ready. Now I'm not so sure

[Black]

I feel better about Shea even though i still think he is trying to pocket Black though. Which maybe isn't whats happening and he is just legit trying to sort. It feels like some sort of pocket attempt but when i read what he is doing it looks like sorting in my brain. Gut tells me one thing brain says another.

I'm trying to pocket black irl.

[Black]

UNVOTE: Thestatusquo. Using my suspicion on him to get a read out of Black in #524 was good stuff, in my opinion.

Are you saying that this is something you engineered on purpose?

I like Dunn pointing this out because I was just about to ask this

[Black]

@Titus

Re: static hedges that do nothing - I disagree. They did stuff for me regardless of how they impacted you

Re: semantic fight over aggression - it wasn't semantics. I wanted Fey to comment on Dunn's attitude because I thought it was interesting that she shaded Dragon for being aggressive without mentioning Dunn's aggression

Re: organic resolution - what do you consider inorganic about the resolutions here?

Re: massclaim - I didn't want it and I expressed in my post about it that it's something that would benefit the wolves. Not being sure what the optimal play is doesn't equate to waffling

Re: reads - at this point I don't care how you feel about my reads. Nothing will please you here so I'm just going to keep doing my thing

[Black]

For instance, Dunn is defensive is not a read.

This was literally one of my first thoughts when I was first reading through the thread. It's a read even if you don't like it

[Black]

Part of me feels like this was too strong of positions for Town Black this soon

None of these positions are even that strong though

[Black]

EBWOP: nvm FB I see your clarification

[Black]

No. A read takes a stance.

Then we have different definition of the word "read". I read Dunn's behavior. I didn't take a stance because it was the first thing I read from him. Would it seriously have been better if I said "I'm not sure how this makes me feel" ??

[Black]

What even is that argument Titus? Not all reads come with definitive stances. Like what

[Black]

No. A read takes a stance.

Then we have different definition of the word "read". I read Dunn's behavior. I didn't take a stance because it was the first thing I read from him. Would it seriously have been better if I said "I'm not sure how this makes me feel" ??

No. And that alone isn't a problem. Almost all of your posting was "observations" rather than reads.

Then maybe you were too busy calling my 298 a scummy over-explanation to even digest it?

[Black]

This is how I play the game. I make observations, interact with people, and push things when I see them

[Black]

No. It's an overexplaination saying nothing

It's explaining the way I play the game, and you don't seem to like how I play, which is fine. I'm not going to change for you. You can scumread me for it if you want

[Black]

Even if I can't get you eliminated today, I got a good feeling you are scum.

Just curious, how often are your meta reads correct?

[Black]

I gotta say, Titus is really acting like Black is being unreasonable this game. And I feel Black has been entertaining Titus' requests this whole time, and then Titus acts like it's not good enough and that Black isn't working with Titus.

So to me, Titus is the one being unreasonable here. Scumreading Black is one thing, but acting like they aren't giving you what you are asking for feels.. I don't know, manipulative somehow? It seems bad at least.

Thank you for putting into words how I am feeling

[Black]

Even if I can't get you eliminated today, I got a good feeling you are scum.

Just curious, how often are your meta reads correct?

I don't make them very often. Once or twice a year.

That didn't answer my question

[Black]

Wait 15 players.
ugh. Now i have to think about if theres a traitor or fourth.
Alisae said this was multiball at some point but i don't see that mentioned anywhere.

I'm curious why Ali thought this

[Black]

Is traitor + Mafia considered multi ball?

[Black]

btw furitive said he finds kuribo a bit sus in this game but didn't elaborate at all. nothing specific about them stick out to me on my initial skim and in on later pages personally but I'l keep in mind for doing an iso sweep when I have more time

If furtive thinks kuribo is sus then I'm locktowning kuribo

[Black]

a history there?

Yes but not a bad one tbh

[Black]

I think talking about multi ball is a waste of time and effort but other than that I don't see much harm in it

[Black]

VOTE: Titus

I wanted to give her time to respond to 705 but she has popped into the thread a few times while ignoring this. I don't think the answer is going to effect my thought process here. Even if Titus says she has a 100% correct guessrate on meta tells that will probably only make it worse for her

The conclusion of Titus' interrogation on me resulted in her thinking I'm definitely scum. It's a meta read based on how I start my games as town versus scum. The read itself is (kinda) explained in 671 though I do have issues with this post. I don't think the case is presented very well and I'm struggling to see what Titus is even really trying to point out here, but that's not all that important either

The natural result of this interrogation would be to vote me and try to convince others that I'm scum, but Titus has decided that's not worth her time. In 647 she says she doesn't have the energy to fight the thread over me. I find this odd because I'm pretty sure there's only one or two people that have slight townreads on me. The rest are either null or slight SRs. What is this huge fight that Titus is expecting to have here? It doesn't make sense to back down from a surefire scumread over some theoretical fight that she might encounter in order to convince the thread I'm scum. Usually a read with as much conviction as Titus' is accompanied by more than just waving a white flag before the fight even begins

I also find it really strange that FB was in the thread agreeing with Titus that I feel kinda scummy, yet Titus barely wanted to bounce off of him at all. FB says one of me or Shea is scum and it's probably me in 672 and Titus' response in 674 felt so weak... like "welp, here's my meta case". Then Titus actually argues against FB's meta read that town!Black probably wouldn't have strong positions early (677). If Titus really thinks I'm scum I can't see any reason for her not to engage with FB more here

The conclusion of the interrogation and Titus' actions don't align if she's playing from a town perspective. It all feels very inorganic. There's the possibility she's a townie that thinks she could be wrong, but then comments like 701 ("even if I can't get you eliminated today") and 707 ("in the rare event I'm wrong about Black") feel out of place in that type of mindset.

[Black]

If it's possible I would like for everyone townreading Titus to tell me if this feels off to them ^

[Black]

I do not find it strange Titus doesn’t immediately bounce off with me. We aren’t usually in sync brainwave wise.

But you were N*SYNC here regarding your SR of me. Why wouldn't she want to hear more about your SR of me?

[Black]

Titus basing things a huge amount of her case on meta is kind of strange but this is town Titus. Willing to bet a lot on it

Really? Is this a meta read? Can you elaborate?

[Black]

Titus started scumreading you and then justified said scumread with whatever she could find, rather than actually sort you and then concluding you're scum.

Do you resonate with this statement?

I see it more as Titus wanted to challenge me hoping that our 1v1 would make me look scummy. I think she used the meta case to springboard into the interrogation. Now that I'm seeing the actual meta case I can't help but think "this is it?"

[Black]

Essentially, I'm struggling to find the town mindset in reaching a conclusion that someone is scum and then not voting for them or wanting to convince others to join you

[Black]

I would like for Titus to respond to the details of the case before you assume things for her, please

[Black]

I had a few things I wanted to say but today has been a terrible day and I'm not in the mood.

Hope you feel better!

[Black]

black stop pocketing me.

ok sry

[Black]

This is OMGUS with delusions of grandeur I think.

To me this read feels forced. Did Titus spook you when she said we were scum together?

Your Dragon vote is even worse tbh

[Black]

Shea Black - 1 wolf max

Yeah I'm not following here

[Black]

I mean if you explained it to me I would

[Black]

^that was to FB's 824. Idk where this new page came from

[Black]

Titus... I'm your huckleberry. Convinced, you might say.

What does this mean?

[Black]

many people expressing hard tr on dragon eater right now

I wanna know why? try to sell a tr to me if you can, each of you individually.

For me it's heavily based on tone and content. I see town!Dragon overdoing it on commentary about how many people TR him. I'm not seeing why you think he's so scummy tbh

[Black]

(It appears someone here is anti-fun

I am here to play mafia, not to play wild west DND.

i am here to play wild west dnd, pardner

Hi StD!

[Black]

I've been thinking about my Titus read a lot since I posted it yesterday. She hasn't even responded yet and I'm already doubting it

The way Drixx responded to my case makes me feel way worse about it. The OMGUS/delusions of grandeur felt like a forced read to show Titus "see? look, we're not scum together"

and I get the vibe that Drixx's 372 had nervous energy behind it which would explain him wanting to gain townie points from Titus by discrediting my case

Then we have 828 and this just feels like a pocketing attempt

I still want to hear from Titus regarding her motivations after the conclusion of her interrogating me but I'm less confident in her alignment than I was yesterday

[Black]

@Black, will catch up when health permits.

Take your time and I hope you feel better <3

[Black]

pg 20
dont like drixx

Yeah I'm feeling this rn

I want to move on from Titus atm until she feels better

VOTE: Drixx

[Black]

pg 20
dont like drixx

Yeah I'm feeling this rn

I want to move on from Titus atm until she feels better

VOTE: Drixx

I am not likely to be 100% for some time. Factor it into my posting but don't treat it as immunity.

Me thinking Drixx might be scum makes me more inclined to believe you might be town, so I'm not really concerned how quick you get back to me re: your motivations

[Black]

My motivations are that I think you're scum

That's not really what I'm asking for. I want to know why you don't want to vote me/convince others I'm scum. But I don't want you to have to do this now. I'm totally fine waiting for this conversation

[Black]

In other news I don't like Blacks shift off of titus at all.

It seems like an excuse to get off something that was going nowhere after putting a bunch of effort into constructing a reason to scum read them.

Like if there was conviction there in the first place I would have expected more of an effort to convince people instead of just dropping a case and then quietly backing off when nothing has really changed in the game state.

My shift makes sense if you're following my progression. But I understand why you don't like it

[Black]

I also feel like black has been avoiding me and not commenting on me at all which reads to me like she knows I was a little suspicious of her and is worried that if she makes me notice her it will turn into a full on scum read.

That's funny, I thought it was weird how you avoided my Titus post. I thought you would engage since you seem to know her well

I've commented on you some but you're not really pinging me that much either way atm

[Black]

What progression? What changed?

Have you not been reading my posts today?

[Black]

Does titus being sick mean she can't be scum? Her posts and actions that you cased are still there and she hasn't done much since.

Drixx also hasn't done much since either, but you seem to think they're linked? How so?

Nah, you're definitely not reading my posts. Lol

[Black]

Specifically... 848 and 867

[Black]

I missed this but reading it now I don't really understand it and I still don't really understand why it changes anything for you? Why are drixx and titus unaligned?

I thought I explained it ok. I guess not

In my head, Drixx seems like nervous scum that was caught off guard by Titus SRing him so quickly. It seems like he was trying to show Titus that he's not scum with me by discrediting my case in the way that he did followed by the pockety post

I don't think Titus and Drixx are scum together in this world view

[Black]

Can I get your thoughts on feysal and dragoneater? @black

I'm kinda leaning town on Fey still but I need to digest all the non-solving arguments and take a look for myself

I still think Dragon is town

[Black]

list is ordered

Firebringer
Black
Kuribo

DragonEater70
Klick
GuyInFreezer

Titus
Pink Ball
Dunnstral

Feysal
BlueSnakelet

Thestatusquo
Drixx
Frozen Angel

VOTE: Frozen Angel

This is a good list. I would make a couple changes but it seems like we're in a similar headspace here

[Black]

i think feysal could be scum and you're more likely to be scum, not that you're necessarily scum together

i like black's posting

Shea doesn't like when people like my posting. You're gonna have to do better than that

[Black]

Fwiw Bella is like super convinced Black is town
I'm not putting much thought to Black because I think she'll be a free solve as the game goes on but I can see it

You picked a winner Klick

[Black]

Shea, I think what is preventing me from townreading you this game is the amount of questions you've thrown down that don't really have a follow up. Like it seems like you're asking questions to sort alignments, but you're not letting the conversations develop into a conclusion, and then you still have the same feelings as before later on. I'll have to go back and get some examples of this but the most recent one just happened. You seemed to SR me for switching from Titus to Drixx, but when I explained my thought process, it's all crickets from you. This gives me the feeling you're not really trying to sort alignments but instead you just want to seem like you are

[Black]

I know you're going to want more examples so I'll try to get around to that later

[Black]

Its also frustrating to me because outside of black and me I agree with like almost the entirety of the rest of your reads so I'd prefer to work with you rather than spend the rest of the game fighting with you.

Let me hear a detailed analysis of why you think I'm scum

[Black]

I will eat my cat if this is scum titus tbh.

This sounds informed. Poor kitty

[Black]

I also think my reasoning is pretty clear from the questions I asked you. They were pretty loaded.

Why do you scum lean me? I want your thoughts condensed in a neat little paragraph

[Black]

I explained my understanding of titus' scum game and this is not it.

I see we've moved on to you trying to shade me as it becomes more clear to you that you can't avoid the scum read.

I'm being honest with you about things that are making me question your alignment. If that's shading then yeah, I'm doing it

[Black]

I scum lean you and nothing in your answers changed my mind. I don't need to follow up on that because I'm happy with where my vote is at.

See, I'm not buying this. You missed a crucial post explaining my progression from Titus to Drixx, so when you asked about it and I explained my progression, why would you then not go "ok Black's progression makes a little more sense now." Instead you are claiming that the huge post you missed did nothing to change your mind?

[Black]

More importantly I feel like this isn't your town game.

When I've seen you play town you are quick to offer opinions and thoughts about almost everything going on and when I've observed you playing scum you have a tendency to sit back and let the game happen

and you tend to be much more non-committal.

I have no idea how you can interpret me this game as "sitting back and letting the game happen" when I

have

I've offered opinions and thoughts on almost about everything. This read doesn't make sense at all

[Black]

I fundamentally don't think that post makes sense dude.

How does it not make sense?

[Black]

I don't feel like you're trying to solve the game.

I feel like you're focusing in neat little spots and ignoring wide swaths of the game in order to do it. I feel like you're playing a reactionary game where you pick spots where it feels safe for you to jump in and interact and not taking sides on important parts of the discussion.

I think your titus case felt fake. I think that your progression and follow up was bad. I think there was no real conviction behind it in the first place which is incongruous with how you presented it at the time.

I get the impression that if other people had jumped on you would have kept voting it.

I think your vote on drixx could be distancing because it doesn't feel super well explained to me. I don't like how you used it to jump off titus because it feels convenient. Your original attack on titus felt like omgus to begin with.

I feel like you've only commented on important parts of the game when I've pressed you (i.e. dragon vs. feysal i.e. all of firebringers ISO. I.e. pink ball) and in those spots your answers have been fence sitty and non-committal.

I play this way as town too, so why is this suddenly AI to you?

Not having conviction in things is like the number one thing about me early D1. I'm much more solid in my stances later in the game after flips and associatives. You know this. I know you do

You're purposefully being obtuse then because I've explained it twice now

Again, "fence sitty" and "non-committal" are not scum tells for me. You've read all my games and you know this

[Black]

Like how is it a good faith response to say "I haven't been ignoring things!" while ignoring the things I literally listed that you have been almost completely silent on?

Dude, I haven't been purposefully ignoring things. If I haven't commented on it then I either don't have a strong opinion either way yet or I'm keeping it close to my chest. I don't think it's scummy that I'm not liveposting every thought that I have

[Black]

but now you're acting like you've been scum reading me like literally 20 minutes later. The only thing that changed is I started pressing you again.

You've been null to me for like 3 days now. I've been trying to figure out why I don't TR you and I finally was able to put it into words

[Black]

Black seems to be dipping into the game opportunistically and it doesn't feel organic.

There's no way this can be a legitimate thought coming from your slot

[Black]

In hollow knight you were very strong in your convictions and even though you changed your mind frequently you didn't shy away from giving them or having them.

In that game I townread 3 of the 4 scum very heavily. You don't think that would cause me to have a little less conviction moving forward?

This is the 2nd game in a row where I'm having to defend myself against meta reads and it's getting tiring. Meta changes. People change. There are outside circumstances that could cause one person to play differently from one game to the next. I'm just tired of it

And yeah go ahead and paint this post as scummy too. "Black's flailing"

It's just exhausting

[Black]

I don't get the sense you care about the rest of the game other than the specific parts you are actually focusing on and the parts you are focusing on seem inconsequential and safe to me.

This reads as we are solving in different ways. That's not scummy. Just because we don't consider the same things important doesn't mean we have different motives here

[Black]

Black has suggested that she is responding without being selective, and I say that the evidence says otherwise.

I mean of course I'm selective when I respond. Some things need to marinate, others I need information on right away. I don't know where I suggested that I'm literally responding to everything, but please point it out

[Black]

I do not have the knowledge to tell whether that argument about graph correlation has merit or not.

I mean ... you can just map Black's engagement ratio with each slot in her town games, and them map the engagement per slot here and you're gonna see a bunch of games that have similar outputs and then this game as an outlier. That isn't hard evidence in and of itself, but paired with actually evaluating Black's posts and how Black has responded to Titus and myself, it starts to look pretty bad.

This is just so wrong. There are so many internal and external factors that could skew this information

[Black]

You can start with firebringer vs feysal vs dragoneater, your choice.

Either your scum and you can't do this with conviction or I'd like you to think about those parts of the game if you're town.

I don't have conviction regarding this. Scumread me for it if you want. I haven't had the chance to really look at this. I'll try to do it today

Off the top of my head I can tell you that I TR Fey, FB, AND Dragon. Is there conviction there? No

[Black]

this is the whole point, its not the conviction, its just that it seems like theres empty reads there with no thought behind them.

I have given my reasons for TRing all of them. And yeah there's not going to be a lot of thought behind them when I haven't looked closely at the situation

If you are scumreading me for having reads with not a lot of thought attached on D1 then I'm always going to be scum to you, and I don't have any energy or motivation to convince you otherwise

[Black]

@Black you had ONE bad town game and now you lack conviction? That seems convenient, you have to admit

This is wrong. In my other 2 town games I tunneled hard on the wrong people for the majority of the game. In DN it was Gimli, and the Newbie game it was Delta. I mentioned earlier in the game that I can eventually reach the conclusion but it takes multiple flips, associatives, and long discussions for me to get there

[Black]

I am NOT a D1 hypersolve player by any stretch of the imagination and I don't appreciate being scumread for not being this

[Black]

In that game I townread 3 of the 4 scum very heavily. You don't think that would cause me to have a little less conviction moving forward?

I was talking about this

Yes, and I'm telling you that wasn't my only bad town game. All 3 of my town games on this site involved me playing pretty poorly up until the late game

[Black]

So let's assume that you are being genuine here. If you know that your prior approaches are bad and result in you doing bad early ... why not change? What have you learned from those experiences? Do you have any strategies to avoid the same mistakes?

I have made some changes, and I'm getting scumread for them. I'm trying to not tunnel as much and I'm not putting as much stock into my early TRs because I'm notorious for TRing scum

This is why meta arguments kinda stink

[Black]

All this time and energy wasted talking about meta. I feel like I'm doing more than a lot of slots but it always comes back to "Black's not doing enough"

It's understandable that I'm frustrated about this

[Black]

@Black are you restraining yourself from tunneling on purpose? If so, who would you be tunneling right now?

I don't think so? I think this change has already developed within my playstyle to the point where I'm catching it subconsciously. But then again I don't think anyone has been scummy enough to tunnel, so I'm not sure

[Black]

I was able to win both DN/the Newbie game I was referencing by getting out of my Gimli/Delta tunnel respectively. That allowed me to view the game from a different lens and I was able to come up with the solve. Winning those two games in that manner really has put a leash on my tunneling tendency

[Black]

I don't blame you because like I said I purposefully try to stay in my scum range all the time but I feel like this is the first game I have tryharded in in a very long time so it still felt...crappy.

Can you elaborate on the things you do to try and stay in your scum range, and would you say you're doing them this game even though you're tryharding?

[Black]

Shea, I'm going to look into Fey/dragon/FB. If I can't get around to it tonight I'll do it first thing in the morning

Is there anything in particular you want me to look at there?

[Black]

I can do that

[Black]

Black's not going to townread me for it, that's for sure. Not after that last game.

Ngl, when I first read your 1062 my first thought was "why is Blue trying to pocket me?" but your following responses made me feel like you actually believe what you're saying

It actually made me want to go back and read Newbie 2117 and I see similarities in my play. The main difference is in this game I've been getting 2v1'd from the jump. You can tell I'm trying to solve here (even if it's in my own little way) but apparently I can't help but respond to people calling my stuff weak and bad. I don't know if this is a scumtell but I have it when I'm town. I can't help but respond to people and I don't like leaving stuff unanswered or misinterpreted

@Shea, I don't think your 1086 is fair. Yeah I agree there was a condescending tone to the way Blue was describing you/Titus, but you took it to a different level here. I also don't like you refusing to cooperate with Blue when he asked you for a summary. You have every right not to give him one but it just felt like he was willing to work with you and you weren't reciprocating that. And this isn't the first time you've gotten mad at someone for disagreeing with your read on me. I'm trying to figure out the motivation behind this

@Titus, Hollow Knight was my first game on the site 4 months ago. You can ask FB - I was in over my head. I didn't know anyone. If you want a more recent representation of my town game you can check Newbie 2117 mentioned above. I'm happy to answer any questions you have

[Black]

Tomorrow I'm going to try to focus less on the people directly engaging with me and look at things I've been putting off digesting for later

[Black]

I love how everyone is coming into today with an agenda. I haven't had the chance to read FA's iso's yet but I'll get around to it

My plan is to look a little deeper at Fey/FB/Dragon to solidify my reads there

[Black]

I'm going to start with Fey which will probably bleed into FB since a lot of these two ISO's feel like their engaging with each other

Spoiler: Fey ISO

I've already talked about 97

In 146 Fey says in the same breath that the massclaim would probably be good for the town but that it wouldn't work like they were hoping due to scum knowing what the intended scum roles would be. I don't think I even understand this. Even if scum weren't told which roles were intended for them, why would the massclaim be a good idea? How does this clarification Fey made with the mod change anything?

152 - beginning of the first Fey/FB interaction. FB seems to be picking up a little of what I was getting between Fey/Dunn. Or at least Alisae is (115). I don't have issues with Fey's read on Dunn here though

FB calls Fey's Dunn read "baffling" in 162. I like the pressure by FB here

Fey responds in 217 and essentially says they think Dunn is trying to solve by coming in asking questions. Fey also shades FB a little in this post. It reads as defensive to me but also Fey seems legitimately confused at FB's playstyle. I'm getting similar vibes from Fey here as I had in Hollow Knight regarding FB. I think FB just has his own way of doing things that could easily be read as scummy if you're not familiar with him

FB responds in 237 and essentially says in a very long-winded manner that Dunn's questions weren't trying to sort. I think I disagree here. I understand what FB is saying but I think there is this unspoken expectation that everyone should only ask certain questions or else they seem scummy. I'm feeling this in my arguments with Shea/Titus. We are all wired differently and therefore will approach the game different. Just because FB doesn't like Dunn's questions doesn't mean Dunn wasn't trying to solve in his own way. FB also says that one of Fey/Dunn is scum and I don't agree with that read

Fey responds in 254. I can see why I glazed over this originally. There's an argument of FB changing the meaning of words regarding the setup and even though I'm not seeing it I get the sense that Fey actually believes what they are saying here. I remember thinking this post was pretty defensive when I first read it, especially with the vote at the end, but this post pretty much squashes the idea of Fey/Dunn being scum together to me. No shot Fey chainsaw defends her buddy this hard

256 - Fey elaborates on the "aggressive" conversation from earlier. I think I missed this when reading through. I don't vibe with this explanation because now it seems like Fey is agreeing with me that Dunn entered aggressive when they originally said they didn't think he did. This reads as "ok yeah but it's a different type of aggressive." I don't know why they didn't just say that earlier?

I agree with Fey's take on RVS in 258

Fey TRs Dunn and I in 261. Great reads and I agree

Fey says getting overwhelmed isn't AI in 300 and I agree. Titus being hard to pin down? Agree here as well. I posted this exact comment in my discord last night

368 doesn't have much noteworthy except maybe that Fey continues to defend her "Dragon's aggressive" stance from earlier, citing meta as a reason for thinking Dragon would be more relaxed. This isn't really a scumread (Fey says they "wonder why that is") but it does feel like they are sus of Dragon over it. I get it, but meh. Maybe I'm just over all the meta talk. Someone entering the game a different way could have absolutely nothing to do with their alignment and I think Fey realizes this here which is why they don't fully SR Dragon for it

Fey/Dragon in 395 - I agree with Fey's take on Titus. Fey doubles down on their suspicion over Dragon's "aggressive" entrance and says that Dragon's responses only made it worse. I'm just not following here, but I don't think this weak reasoning for SRing Dragon is necessarily scummy coming from Fey. It does feel like Fey believes what they are saying here

516 shows that Fey is trying to solve. They went back and reread FB's posts earlier in the game and reassessed their opinion. I also like Fey's thoughts on meta here. Also they touch on the massclaim reasoning that I was confused about at the beginning of this ISO. I'm just not getting it. Maybe someone can explain it to me. I tried to read this paragraph twice and I just don't understand how the setup can be broken by a massclaim

804 - great response to kuribo here IMO. I think where Fey's head is at regarding the revolving roles and clearing people. Also invoking FB here and saying they want a response from him gives me the impression that they're trying to solve. Fey also goes a little deeper into her Dragon SR here and yet again I'm not seeing it. I don't agree with their points at the bottom of this post and I don't think these things make Dragon scummy at all

In 838 Fey says their initial reason for sussing FB was based on nothing? This is strange. I felt like Fey really believed in what they said earlier in the game about FB's Dunn case being a bad push, but here they are implying the push wasn't suspicious at all. While I do agree that FB's push wasn't suspicious I just find it odd that Fey is walking this read back now. I had to read this a few times. I think I'm townreading the honesty here. I think scum would double down on the FB suspicion instead of retracting it. Fey also invokes Shea at the bottom of this post wanting a follow up from him re: TRing Dragon. I don't think it's some huge towntell to keep up with your questions and try to get responses from them (yes it's townie but scum can easily do this) but when Fey is doing it and the way they are doing it, it feels genuine and organic

I'm vibing with the way Fey engages with FA in 1027 even if I don't really share the opinion re: Klick/Dragon. I also like Fey's response to Shea at the bottom of this post. They vote for Dragon here

Tl;dr - Fey is town. Also this ISO didn't bleed into FB's very much like I thought it would

[Black]

That took me an hour. Smh

[Black]

I guess continuing on my ISO, I like Fey's most recent post. Like I said it seems like they truly believe in their Dragon SR. I think it's a very weak case and I can't see how it would make Dragon their top SR (lack of other SRs maybe?) but it feels genuine

Also kinda sad to hear that your TR on me is gone, Fey. Can you elaborate what you mean by "smoke but no fire" and how that impacts your view on my alignment?

[Black]

FA as the strongest TR? Yeah, our heads are in really different spaces here. But I think this read is influenced by FA agreeing with you and ya'll being on the same wavelength. As town I tend to TR people in this manner so I think this is town motivated from you

[Black]

I don't know if I've said this yet but StD feels town af

[Black]

i do feel like dragoneater was half the posts in the weird dreams game and here he is noticeably absent

It appears Dragon has siteflaked. I don't think we can view this absence as AI

[Black]

@Shea, @Titus - both of you seem hungry for wagons and both of you scumread me. Why have neither of you voted for me yet?

[Black]

oh sike

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I'm not comfortable with FA's wagon

Why not? I think I agree with Klick's "soulless" read but I'm not sure if that's FA's natural tone or if it's AI

I should probably ISO FA today too. ugh

[Black]

I'm not comfortable with FA's wagon

Why not? I think I agree with Klick's "soulless" read but I'm not sure if that's FA's natural tone or if it's AI

I should probably ISO FA today too. ugh

I have only read her last posts, the ones after my readlist, and I think the way she approached each ISO was benign

Wait so you're not comfortable with her wagon but you haven't even read all of her posts yet?

[Black]

i do feel like dragoneater was half the posts in the weird dreams game and here he is noticeably absent

It appears Dragon has siteflaked. I don't think we can view this absence as AI

If you're going to say this, at least acknowledging that he was around 8 hours later since his last post here would be less disingenuous

What? I don't understand what you're saying here

[Black]

In contrast, I find it easier to express scumreads when I'm scum than when I'm town. Because I know I have to push something that's false when I'm scum, whereas I am rarely confident enough that someone is scum to properly push them when I'm town.

I feel this on a spiritual level

[Black]

Wait so you're not comfortable with her wagon but you haven't even read all of her posts yet?

That's what I said, yes. You just added a question mark

This just seems like a weird thought process to have. I feel like the normal thing to do here is to go read the rest of FA's posts to see if you can understand where the wagon is coming from instead of just blindly discrediting it

[Black]

What? I don't understand what you're saying here

You're arguing that Dragon's absence is NAI because he siteflaked, but you left out the fact that his last post here was 8 hours before he siteflaked

I don't see how this matters in any way